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I see it now that she's no where near R material right now. She is selfish and has her head up her ass. She knows that I will comfort her because she's feeling bad and I have done a lot of that lately. I'm the victim here. She needs to be comforting me and begging me for forgiveness daily. She needs to be chasing me. I can't make her do that, but I can tell you I won't be chasing her anymore.

I'm glad you have more clarity now, if D doesn't right yet and you don't want to ruin the kids vacation, that's OK and understandable. You are correct, she should be bending over backwards and begging you for forgiveness because of her huge betrayal, keep calling her out on her bullshit, she's now even claiming that if she knew you didn't want multiple dogs she wouldn't have married you (buyer's remorse), she's grasping at straws trying to justify her wayward thinking, again trying to find something to justify why she wants out now, it sounds that's what's on her mind right now, hence the separation comment, but she doesn't want to be the "bad buy".

Separation after infidelity, at least here on SI and other forums often results in more time to cheat without being monitored, I like others are concerned about the walks with the dog, I would put a VAR in her car just in case. I would ask her directly, do you want to stay in this M and do the hard work that it's going to take for years and with no guarantees ? if the answer is other than a resounding yes, then get your ducks in a row and wait after the vacation to pull the plug and set her free if that's what she really wants. If the answer is yes, then hold her feet to the fire, tell her she needs to find out on her own how to help you heal, that she's a grown woman, but for starters ,that she needs to get tested for STDs (you seem keep ignoring this), she needs to apologize to both set of parents (very important) for her huge betrayal and admit to them she was wrong and not shift the blame on you, she needs to get off BC like she offered to because she got on it to cheat, she needs to abandon her triathlon and focus on the family and finally she needs to sign a postnup in your favor (very important), keep posting frequently we're here to support you.

I come at this from a different perspective. I think you need to be taking steps to protect yourself and your family. Though I do want to note if you read any of the WW threads on SI many of the WW's have stated it took months for them to show remorse and get their heads out of the sand. In one case almost a year. I'm not saying you should subject yourself to this bs for a year. I just saying you should consider this and perhaps PM a couple of these WW's. They appear to be very introspective and may be helpful for you to hear from. In comparisons, I think WH's come around a lot quicker than WW's because WW"s built a bigger facade which allowed them to remove their barriers and have the affair. This takes longer to breakdown. IC helps with this, as does the 180. Just MHO.

Lastly, you may make a comment as you are getting ready for the beach that this could be our last vacation as a family, and leave it at that for her dwell on. A couple of these comments might help to put things in perspective for her. Again, just my opinion. She doesn't think you will leave her. (Not saying you won't. But it doesn't sound like she thinks you will leave)

I also want to echo you are receiving a lot of good advice on here.

I wish you and your family luck and stick to your mantra "one day at a time." Unfortunately this is a long road. Even years to overcome. I know it would be nice to ask her if she is all in, but I don't know you will get an answer at this point; based on where she is at. Lastly, I would confirm with OBS about OM's whereabouts on these walks. Good luck

Bahama,

You are handling a lot of this incredibly well, and I hope that the amount of support and passion people are putting into this thread will help you to see that you are not in the wrong, nor did you do anything wrong.

In relation to the "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" mood swings that you observed, your wife's statements, actions, and reactions all show signs that she is a very controlling person, who gets enormously frustrated when she cannot control things.

Look at her rage incident, where she shook, and then broke her glasses. That was not guilt, remorse, or contrition; she was losing it because she was not in control. You were.

The same is true with her statement about 'hating' you for telling people about her affair. It took away her power to control who knew and who didn't, and she would undoubtedly have wanted to hide it and pretend it never happened.

There is a whole raft of information in your post from yesterday about what she said to you that smacks of her desire to control you, and this situation.

Google "Actions of a controlling person", and you will find a lot of material that will give you insight into what your wife does, and why she does it.

If you review the marriage, has she been the one to drive a lot of the decisions, like moving because of her job, you becoming a stay-at-home Dad, etc?

I think you are beginning to see behind the mask now, because her actions do not match her words, and some of her actions border on aggression.

I think you are getting some very good advice about seeing an attorney and protecting yourself, because it is better to err on the side of caution than trusting your wife's good nature at this point.

Do not forget that your wife made several face-to-face denials of the affair to her affair partner's wife, to the point where that poor woman actually apologised to your wife, more than once, for being suspicious. It takes a special kind of person to be able to do that to someone else face-to-face. So be careful about putting too much credence into the things that your wife says; she has a proven track record of bare-faced lying, unaffected by morality or conscience.

I hope this will all work out for you, but for now, you need to be doing everything you can to safeguard yourself.

Bahama, I just want to say I'm proud of the actions you have been taking to step back and 180 for yourself. You have had some codependent moments but you have truly stepped up your game recently and made much healthier steps towards healing. You're doing great and as long as you keep up the good work, you will get sucked in less and less when your WW wants to play the victim.

It might help to look up the Karpman Drama Triangle. It may explain some of what happens when she turns an argument back around on you and makes you look like the persecutor and herself the victim. It might allow you to see it when it's happening instead of later in hindsight. Not chasing her and allowing her to be firmly planted in her victim hood is a first great step to stopping it if she's even willing to stop.

Interesting question for your WW, Bahama, "How did you feel about yourself when you were lying to OBS's face about you banging her husband?"

Don't know how you'd ever ask it, though. Maybe her therapist will. Added: It's not that you need the answer. She needs to be contemplating the question.

I hope it's not too long a road for your WW to get to humility. She has to recognize at accept her own flaws before she can expect you to.

[This message edited by ARock at 11:55 AM, March 13th (Wednesday)]

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:34 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

To twist you are allergic to dogs into you hate dogs, is the logic of a 13 year old.

Before the affair did she often walk the dog at night as she does now?

Dear Bahama,

This will be my final post on this thread. I’m feel extremely sorry for you and your family. You have gone fair and beyond to keep your family intact, but in my opinion, it will fail. Many reaction to the affair should’ve been display by your WW, i.e.

1.) You have cried in front of your spouse.

2.) Emotional breakdown in from of your WW

3.) Comforting her in her time of need.

4.) ETC.

Without knowing who was the wayward, I would think it was you.

It is my opinion; your wife has mentally and physically left your marriage. I also believe she is NOT in a fog. She is an extremely intelligent individual with the ability to act in a methodical manor. Her heart now belongs to her AP, and she has no desire to change that. Also, consider that your WW is now trying to figure a way to regain the attention of her AP.

You have some hard decision to consider. One last thought, I agree with some other posters that your WW want you to make the decision to leave the marriage to alleviate some of her guilt. If I were you, I would sit down and have a very serious conversation with her and ask her if she wants a divorce. If so, you will work with her on this process.

Best to you and your family.

Bigheart

The analogy you use to understand what is going on can shape your response. If you see her as fence sitting, trying to decide what she is going to do, that leaves her in charge and you waiting.

If, however, you see her as having one foot on the boat and one on the pier, and you are driving the boat, you realize you are in total control. She will make a decision real fast if you start pulling away.

Your WW sounds like my WW, maybe they’re related?

"you didn’t let me drive your car, you were controlling!"

"You don’t have a driver licence, you should take a driving course first"

"My AP let me drive his truck"

"You mean the company truck for which he’s a simple employee and doesn’t belong to him?"

I think Stevesn is very insightful, your WW sounds very immature.

Hang in there, Bahama. You're doing well,all things considered.

My W woke up this morning as I was leaving to take our youngest to school. When I returned she was having a lively conversation on the phone. I stood waiting for her to finish and caught on to what the conversation was about. She was talking to a dog breeder. I about lost my shit right there but held on. When she got off I asked who that was, she just smiled and said it was the dog breeder and she was setting up a time to go see the puppies.

I kind of did lose it here, but it was a controlled anger. I just said "Are you kidding me? Listen, you can get a puppy but you better know that I will never in my life rise a finger to help you with it! I am floored by how self centered and selfish you are! It's all about Me!Me!Me! to you! You have no fucking idea how bad a place I'm in right now and you are only concerned with your individual happiness." I then stopped myself and warned her that she shouldn't try to even say a word to me right now. I was hot. I left to go do some handyman work for a neighbor.

I had forgotten a tool so came back to our house right as she was leaving for work. She told me she didn't appreciate when I am hateful towards her and that it wasn't productive to our healing. I again just told her I was stunned by her selfishness and walked away. She started crying but left. I did notice that she had grabbed the book I asked her to read and had it in her hand as she left. She had gotten it between my initial reaction and the one outside.

[This message edited by Bahama at 9:02 AM, March 21st (Thursday)]

As if I couldn't be surprised further by her actions, she just sent me another email with job postings! WTF!

I would only communicate about kids and logistics at the moment. You are wasting your energy trying to show her that she's being irrational and hypocritical. She will not see it and it is beneath your dignity to have to spell it out for her. At this time she is not a safe partner for you to be reasonable and vulnerable with.

I don't mean to make light of your situation but...

[This message edited by Sharkman at 2:18 PM, March 13th (Wednesday)]

As if I couldn't be surprised further by her actions, she just sent me another email with job postings! WTF!

If she likes international cuisine, I'd reply with a few asian recipes featuring dog meat.

Just kidding... that's a horrible idea. Just an amusing (though admittedly evil) thought I couldn't contain.

I think the letter was useful for you. (there were a couple of typos) If writing helped clarify your understanding about where your head is it was worth it.

I wouldn't send it. I don't see that she's even remotely ready to listen to anything you have to say. She flips you the bird; You pour your heart out in a letter. I'm not seeing the balance here.

It feels more like it's time to dial up your 180 and keep detaching. She's fully detached from you; and maybe reality. I'm convinced that if the lawyer had given her a more sanguine report on how this impacts her financially, she'd be long gone.

I think you're still being too soft on her. I'd treat her like the middle-schooler she's acting like. Just tell her, "No, bad idea getting another dog right now. If you're motivation is to heal us, I can't imagine how you think that will help in any way." But, don't get mad. Just state the facts and carry on. (It is right up there with rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.)

[This message edited by ARock at 2:59 PM, March 13th (Wednesday)]

This is pure speculation but it’s as if she has no idea what to do to fix things and think:

"I was frustrated because I didn’t have a dog and because of all my frustrations I had an affair, so I’m going to do the right thing and get a dog "

Her actions speak volumes. She's playing the victim and blame shifting. She didn't like what she heard from the attorney as far as what a Day would cost her so now she wants u to get a job to make it better for her financially. That's how it reads to me. Hard 180.

Please don't send that letter. It will not elicit the result that you desire. It's simply more of you trying to get her to 'drink.'

Detach a bit. Keep journaling. Increase your IC visits.