SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Lionne, hugs again. I wish we could just tell each other what to do and it would always be the correct advise. Oh but no, unfortunately, you will have to decide that. I don't think you need to uproot your whole life over his stupid choices. It is hard when you've told yourself what you would do and then when faced with it, feeling as if what your plan was may not be right for you.

When I first learned of my sawh affairs, I followed my plan and left. I struggled with not divorcing him as I thought I would. We stayed separated for 16 months both doing tons of therapy and 12 step programs. I learned through that process that my leaving, I put myself in more of a disadvantage emotionally. Because of moving all the time growing up, I found it very difficult to be back in that state of "not settled." When I came back to the marriage, my plans for any relapses are either in-house separation or he leaves. I will not uproot myself because of his issues, again.

The only suggestions I have for you is, 1. Attend meetings. 2. Take care of yourself and your needs. 3. Make a pro and con list of each of your choices, ask your higher power for an intuitive thought or decision. Then wait for one.

I do know a person in my S anon group whose sawh went to the inpatient treatment after about 5 years of struggling with sobriety. It seems to be what he needed.

I am sending you strength. This SA stuff really sucks.

Lionne, I don't know if my husband is acting out or not. The only person in the world who knows is my husband and his definition of acting out is narrower than mine. Because he's changed so much, I have a sense that some of the acting out is seriously reduced. But my bet is the objectifying/staring/fantasizing is reduced but not gone. And I know he still secretly masturbates. So, is he fully recovered? No, I wouldn't say that.

But I can check on him whenever I want. I just don't want to. If I really need to I will. But it feels like a waste of time and toxic. I don't want to be his Porn Nanny or accountability partner.

What I've learned is even if he was sober, he's so stunningly immature he can't have an adult relationship and I don't want one with him.

I had people tell me what to do and it was always 'divorce him right now.' And it usually came with a dose of "what is wrong with you for staying". I got these messages at the lowest of my lows and it really didn't help me.

The damage to me of my marriage was so much greater than I had realized at first. My self esteem, which clearly wasn't great since I chose to marry this guy, was at rock bottom. My trust issues now are awful and I'm working hard at trusting myself and others. My sense of shame over being married to this person was huge and I've had to work on shedding that. And then the grief of it all....that still overwhelms me at times.

But, I almost died from my illness and five or six years ago, just as I was getting the beginning sense of my husband's addiction, I went through a last chance effort to halt my illness and had six rounds of chemotherapy. It would take all day to get infused. I was sicker than I had ever been and at the end, I had no immune system and got all these opportunistic infections that were also close calls with death. Not to be too dramatic, but that experience changed me. I am in remission and have been so for these last years. Amazing considering the stress and trauma of staggered disclosures. I feel so blessed to have a second chance at life.

But it wore me out and wore me down. All of this shit wore me down. I needed to focus on me and to recover my strength. Divorcing would have been justified, but honestly, I was so depleted I didn't have the energy.

What I did without even knowing it was start to divorce my husband emotionally. I needed to do this to survive. Over time my detachment became so much preferable to my engagement with him. I gave up the idea of a good marriage with my husband. I remember trying to connect after a trip I took and he was an asshole and I just said "I give up. I'm not going to try to connect to you anymore." And that's what I did. I don't work on this marriage. Sad, for sure. But...I have so much more time and energy. I can focus on me. I'm living with my husband, but it's like we're civil roommates who don't really like each other. Frankly, he doesn't know me or like me. He needs me, though. He has a "need/hate" relationship with me. And, I thought I needed him but I don't.

The awareness that I would never really know if he was acting out and the deep distrust I had of him, let alone the pain of his betrayal and abuse...why would I want a relationship with this man? He literally has to become a different man and he doesn't have the time, courage or integrity to do that.

I don't recommend my approach to everyone. It's pretty awful living in a cold, empty marriage and under the same roof with him. But I like where I live. I have financial stability and health insurance that's very good and that I desperately need. I keep working on my life. I hope to have the strength and stability to make even better decisions about my life.

My advice, as well, is to be gentle with yourself. Focus on you. I don't recommend visiting his IC. I do recommend you finding an IC you can trust.

ashestophoenix

[This message edited by ashestophoenix at 8:53 AM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

I make the decision to stay, at least for now, because of our children. I am not yet at the point where I can support us without his income. I am having a rough day today, as a result of a number of things. Early in the week my husband got a new phone for work. He had an accountability app on the old phone and I have been waiting to see if he would say anything about putting one on this phone. Crickets. I have caught him twice viewing slightly objectionable material on YouTube. the 2nd time I didn't even say anything because honestly what's the point. If he wants to act out hes going to. Also today is his birthday. Hes going out to lunch with some work buddies when he knows I am in the area and I could come too but he doesn't invite me. Secondly I don't even know if hes really going with work buddies. You know how your mind goes crazy - this place is in another town he could be meeting someone else or maybe there's a cute waitress there. How would i know? I just hate all of this so much and I just feel so torn apart today. I hate him so much but I don't want him to love anyone else. I want to divorce him but I don't want things to be difficult financially or hurt the kids. I want to have a best friend. I want to have someone whi loves me and respects me and I'm just feeling really depressed because I feel like that will never happen. I know it would never happen with my husband. I really hate his birthday because I feel like I'm expected to be nice and wish him a Happy Birthday and buy a present and I can't really do much of that. I cannot buy him a present at all. I've been texting him some funny birthday memes because today's his 40th birthday but that's about the most that I can muster . I guess I just needed to have a little pity party.

Lionne - I’m so sorry. I wish I could hug you and give you just a moment of security and safety.

This s so sad

Thanks everybody...

He now says he "gets it." I'll bet among all of us, we've heard that phrase a zillion times.

I'm soaking up all the sights and smells of my garden...trying to figure out if I can take this chance again.

I offered IHS, he's adamantly against it. If I strongly felt that was the right path I'd do it anyway, but I'm just freakingly confused. And sad.

How stupid are they that they don't get how even "minor" actions pull the rug out from any tentative foundation we've built. They LOVE LOVE LOVE their secrets and sneaky behavior.

So sorry everyone here is going through so much trauma or repeated trauma. It sucks. Lionne, one day at a time. That is how I get through these rough patches. And yes focus on those beautiful spring moments!!

As for me, well crap!! Just more and more crap! My WH thought that since he is going to rehab next week that he owes me some truths. He admitted finally to being a sex addict and mostly blow jobs. He even said that he is great at getting blow jobs. He doesn’t like to have sex, it’s “not his thing.” He is too worried about stds etc. He admitted to some suspected women and denied others but I don’t really believe his denials. This has been ongoing our whole 10 years of marriage. Even Ashley Madison hook up in a parking lot. He said he is expected to attend meetings every night and he can choose from all of them given he has many addictions - drugs, alcohol and sex.

It is not easy hearing even some of his truths. It validates what I thought but it still hurts like heck. He actually thought That because there was no emotional connection that it was okay. Also because he was still being a good husband and father that what would I really care if he had mindless blow jobs.

Wtf?!! Then he says that he “knows I want to leave him but really the chances are that most guys cheat and well the next guy will just fuck around on me anyhow”

This is when I slapped him in the face! It came out of nowhere but seriously how much more can one possibly take.

Double post

[This message edited by Somber at 9:50 PM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Somber, damn. When my WH went to rehab this last time (drugs), the intake person called me to get my perspective. I explained that we were separated and getting divorced and all that, of course. Don't know why he gave her my number as the contact, but whatever. I suspect she crossed a bit of a professional line, but she told me when he told her about his cheating that he didn't know why it hurt me so badly since he didn't love any of them. She seemed to really want me to know that he said that. I appreciated that. It wrecked me to hear it, but I'm sure he really believed it. She sounded like she wanted to throttle him. Could be she's been in the BS club herself.

Addicts are seriously fucked up. That's just the truth. Empathy is not their thing. Their brains are just so off. I can't criticize you slapping him. I'd rather have been slapped than dealt with an empathy-challenged douchebag telling me how having sex with other people behind my back wasn't a big deal and all men will cheat on me anyway.

empathy-challenged douchebag telling me how having sex with other people behind my back wasn't a big deal and all men will cheat on me anyway

.

Right?! It hurts so much that he actually thinks this way. My feelings will never be validated or truly heard. He doesn’t get how hurt I truly am.

I really have to stop reasoning with an addict, especially when not sober. I am counting down the days until I can have a break while he is gone!!

Wish me strength because It is like he is trying to get it out of his system before he goes...things have only been worse and I never thought they could get any worse. I am safe though and if that ever changes I have a safe place to go! 5 days to go.

Lifeexploded,

You don't need to do anything for your H's birthday. What does he expect? A cake and a parade? The more you pretend things are normal, the more he will minimize and you will learn to rugsweep.

If you're not feeling it, don't do it. If you're down and can't do much then live in that moment and move on when it passes. You cannot pretend things are normal even though he is trying to convince you they are.

It sounds to me that there is complete denial about what he has done. I also completely understand your "paranoia' about where he is, who he is with and what he is doing. I still suspect and check a year after D Day.

I do hope you are seeing a good IC, he sounds like he will be a tough nut to crack.

Somber,

He is great at getting blow jobs? Is that some sort of talent?

Does he not know diseases can also be transmitted orally?

We could be married to the same man. My H's thing is handjobs. I should ask him if he's really good at getting those...

Mine said all the same things are yours. It meant nothing, he didn't love them, they were ugly, everyone cheats...

Hundreds of women over an at least 12 year span.

They make it sound so awful yet they keep it up year after year.

It makes me so angry to read everyone's stories because they all sound alike

Soooo he now has another recovery plan...

*one time meeting with a highly respected CSAT. I'm a bit skeptical as this is the practice that (years ago) stressed my codependency.

*a new CSAT that is local on a regular basis.

*he wrote out a new disclosure that accepts all the blame.

*he has adopted the philosophy that he can't heal what he doesn't acknowledge, ie, he needs to talk about his issues and feelings. (duh)

He's a truly damaged person. Unfortunately, that seems to be a contagious condition.

How are you feeling about all of that Lionne?

Does it help you to know your husband's recovery plan?

What's his plan if recovery work doesn't offer the full healing that he's hoping for? Will the CSAT handle non-SA related issues...too...that may come up?

So. My husband has always maintained there was something "wrong with him" beyond the SA. He actually still, after even all of his work with a CSAT, the 12 steps, etc...has desires to be alone.

He thought this might change once he worked his recovery. Turns out, after 5 years of sobriety, combined...it hasn't. He did tell me it was one of the things he wants to talk about with the therapist he's now found.

So..for me, at least that's an indication that my husband really gets it. It took a decade from DDay1 though, for him to get there.

Meanwhile, I'm struggling fiercely and engaging in all sorts of pretty bad behaviors. We both acknowledge that I'm pretty miserable. I keep waiting to feel like I might love him again. It's not happening. It's been likely close to three years now, that I feel like I've loved him. I don't have the heart to tell him that, yet. I'm still hoping that I can find my way back to him.

It's all such a mess.

Hey Shocked they actually don't all sound alike--but yours definitely, yes. Difference was mine didn't say they were ugly-said he didn't care-Im nearly 4 years out--time and therapy, SANON, being with friends, being with adorable grandson, being in nature--and after all is said and done, just being--helps my mind. Can't say I've healed--still never say "bless you" whenever he'll sneeze--but heal-ing. I envy your ability to still love and find your H attractive--he is a very, very lucky guy.

Somber good for you, the slap. Sounds to me that your H is desperately afraid of losing you so he'll say anything stupid thing that comes to mind, including things that can push you even further away. These men are very stupid.

Looking for couples that have done an intensive with Dr Weiss in Colorado or Milton Magness in Texas.

I'm sad. I'm angry. I cringe Everytime a mother's day commercial comes on, both kids far far away. (A funny...the Jared's commercial, the mom is telling the kids she really wants a daughter in law for mother's day. That's me)

I don't know what I'm doing. I'm grieving. And I'm wary. I *thought* he got it a long time ago. I have no expectations. I want to be numb and dumb. I want all of it to go away.

I find the grieving is the hardest.

Yep. But the light at the end of the tunnel is to be able to talk to all of you.

He's still minimizing the inappropriate nature of the movies he watched "Basic Instinct" and something similar with Madonna, calling the "mainstream MA and R movies." He states, but doesn't really believe it's a terrible choice for a SA. And I insisted he tell our son what happened as he was working in Philly and staying with us last week. He told him he got "caught" looking at porn, not, he was looking at porn and that's a problem. Still puts me in the maternal role. We'll talk about that as soon as I can talk without blubbering.

There were no new details in his disclosure and a lot of vagueness due to the length of time things went on. There were a few subtle things that I need clarity on. When I can.

This weekend will suck. I made it clear I wanted no Mother's day celebration from him, I'm NOT his mother. My kids are far, far away but are with their lovely girlfriends. I am very grateful for that. I'm making a cake for all the mothers at meeting (church) and taking care of adoptable cats in the afternoon.

I hope all the rest of you moms have a wonderful, restful, fun day with your kids.

I have to admit that saying "I'm good at getting blow jobs" made me laugh out loud. I mean...really?!?!?!

I got that "all men do it" BS and it just proves to me they are addicts: denial, rationalization, minimization, justification. Zero empathy. Total self-centeredness. And can I just say this...isn't it just stupid? Also, what a grim, pinched view of life and love and everything. Yuck.

What happened to me in the early days was that desperate need to know the truth about my SAH's acting out. And when it started to come out, I actually couldn't keep hearing it because it made me want to vomit. I learned to say, "This hurts too much" or "This offends me too deeply and I can't listen now." But I reserve the right to ask about it when I can hear it. I recommend doing just that. We MUST protect ourselves because we all know until they get sober/mature/decent, they aren't going to give one fig about our feelings.

Over time, realizing just how cruel and hurtful these messages are, and just how heartless and uncaring my husband was, killed any love I had for him. And when he says either cruel or stupid self-serving stuff, little seeds of hate get planted in me. I don't want to hate, but I've got to say, it feels justified.

It's all awful, as we know. But it has forced me to see reality and to take better care of myself.

Wishing us all peace and joy,

ashestophoenix

I've requested that my husband say something to the kids, about what's going on.

Of course, he refuses, because he thinks they already assume it was him.

The first year after the quasi-relapse, I blamed it on pregnancy hormones. Course, that only goes so far.

So, I don't make the same assumptions. I have a rough relationship with my folks, so it could be that too.

I mean, the kids aren't dumb. I'm crying at least twice a week, now. They know something is up. They don't really ask much. Which is probably a good thing.

I'm hoping that he'll tell the kids when he finally "gets it."