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Forgive yourself for loving? NFW, bro. Celebrate it. You are able to love. You've loved. You're a loving person. You can continue to love. That's a critical part of living a good life.

I'm just sorry you weren't totally loved back.

You may need to forgive yourself for missing some of your W's flaws. You may need to forgive yourself for loving your W despite her flaws. But that's different from forgiving yourself for being a loving person.

Your W's As say nothing about you. My model of how our heads work is that your are feeling awful because of your self-talk. Some of that self-talk is healthy. Some self-talk helps you act in your best interests. But some is unhealthy and keeps you down. So what are you saying to yourself about yourself?

The only way I can think of to heal is to hear what you tell yourself and evaluate each message. Then dump the unhealthy, self-damaging self talk and replace it with nurturing.

Your best approach is to create or adopt a model that works for you and use it to improve your health, either on your own or with help.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:42 PM, Thursday, November 10th]

She was one of 5 kids of a poor family that moved around a lot and she was a bit reckless before we met from what I heard.

Kind of explains a bit. The moving around could make a person feel displaced. Like they do not being anywhere. So many siblings which could cause chaos, and lack of parental attention. The reckless behaviour could be a cry for attention (generally, kids act up to get attention), and she hadn't grown out of that behaviour then.

I should have known better what she was capable of.

Don't beat yourself up over this. How would you have known unless you have a hidden talent of clairvoyance that you are not telling us.

Maybe deep down I need to forgive myself for being so as they say love is blind.

As sissoon posted, why would you need to forgive yourself for loving someone? That is hogwash, and you know it. I would think that all of us would have gone through young love, and we see it clearer now, as we have grown older (and hopefully wiser).

I do think that your WW actually did love you, but her self-hate was stronger than her love for you.

If she's such a crappy person that you feel like you need to forgive yourself for loving her, why not just get a divorce and move on with your life? I can't imagine that either of you could enjoy your life if that's the dynamic between you.

I seem to be getting this thing under control, put back in the vault in the back of my mind.
...the feeling like I'm kidding myself...
I just can't seem to get permanency and peace of mind after 23 yrs of knowing about something that happened 35 yrs ago.
I feel like a putz for not being able to get past my situation.

shouldofleft, I think you've got yourself one hell of an internal conflict. You've tried to keep "this thing" in the vault in the back of your mind, all the while knowing you're kidding yourself, and then feeling like a putz for not being able to resolve it.

You "should" have left.
Okay, do you regret that decision?
Do you think you made the wrong choice?
If you could go back in time, would you make a different choice?

If your answers to one or any of the above is "yes," then perhaps it's time to admit that to yourself and figure out what to do next. Putting "this thing" back in the vault in the back of your mind isn't going to help.

I should have known better what she was capable of.

So in the last 10 years of marriage has she not shown something else she is capable of?
I agree with CT – if you truly think so little of your wife then divorce her.
Once again: My tag line…

update, Thank you all for taking the time to share your advice and experience. I'm pretty sure I'm back to normal or back to my normal. Counting blessings and appreciating and acknowledging all the good things my wife has done over the many years of marriage. Once I get out of that depressive state I look back at the past few months and shake my head wondering how the hell did I get there and even more so how the hell did I snap out of it. Bottom line is all is good, hopefully forever, if not see you in a decade or two.

Rugsweeping never works (obviously), but best of luck to you!

Hard, your right, she has been stellar for 35 years while being questioned for every move she ever made while being a broken up 23 yr old and leaving her makes no sense. I dont believe I swept anything under the rug. I grilled her and she is remorseful for the lies of omission while we were broken up. She saw the pain I went through and acknowledged her part and she has said and done everything possible to help me understand her actions.

[This message edited by shouldofleft at 7:33 PM, Monday, November 14th]

Glad to see you are feeling better Shouldofleft.

Thank you all and Happy Thanksgiving

I think that when we KNOW that our issue(s) is a 'me' issue(s), it puts that problem right in our lap......where it needs to be.

Can our partner be of assistance? Sure. But ultimately, we have to settle our internal conflict. Whether that be third party help, more self-knowledge, more self-help....you name it....we have to address it. Easier said than done, but still a LOT easier when we KNOW without a doubt that the issue is now ours and ours alone to resolve.

Hopefully, your 'normal' stays around for at least another 35 years.

Well, that didn't take long. Im back already. Nothing major it's just this is the anniversary of my wife admitting to kissing another man. It was 28 years ago and at that time I was pretty hurt but not crippled in grief. She told me within a week or two when I had no way of knowing so I tended to believe her when she swore they did not have sex. Unfortunately I found out my wife was a pretty good liar and there has been much revealed to me since that kiss regarding my wife's past and it paints the kiss in a different light. What a tricky thing the human mind is with triggers and such. My problem to deal with at this point, she has said and done whatever she can to help and at this point even when I do fire off a question (which I know her answers from the past) she says she does not remember anymore. I remember every nuance of every answer to every question and when I ask her the same stuff and she answers differently I must admit I feel like I'm being lied to. I mean its easy to forget a lie you concocted as opposed to the God's honest truth. Amnesia is a shitty excuse. I basically have to own the fact that I chose to stay and live with the fact that there may in fact be a lie or half truth lurking around which of course makes me think that if there is a lie it must be a doozy to keep that secret for nearly a quarter century.....oh well the gifts of infidelity, Merry Christmas!

... she says she does not remember anymore. I remember every nuance of every answer to every question...

She hasn't been ruminating on this event for all this time and you have. It's not necessarily a lie that she doesn't remember some details about something that happened nearly three decades ago. It's not as important to her as it is to you. It's your own rumination which has kept it fresh in your mind.

CT, You never dissapoint.

I may have missed it as I read thru this pretty quickly, but did you ever go thru w the poly?

Up to you, but if not....might be something you should go thru with.

You don't have to if you don't want to, your life and your decision. I just find it odd that she started throwing up a bunch of stuff when you mentioned it. We long timers have seen it here so many times it is just sad really....but sometimes it is just the tip of the iceberg. So darn hard as it is something that is a long time in the past. Just saying as a Debbie Downer I know. Your life and what you want to live with.

That’s the problem. The WW goes on with their life, and daily routines, and that rarely includes a mental break during the day to say, wow, I cheated on my BS, I wonder if they are thinking about my A today snd. If they are, I’m going to do something to comfort them.

The betrayed, on the other hand, is of course thinking about it oh so often during the day.

Should one hold it against the wayward, or simply recognize there is always going to be this great divide?

Dude is right here. WS is not obsessing over her transgressions...just regular life...ho hum. But OP has had to deal with multiple DDs and TT. Also rug swepped. This can stay with you forever.

Never, I don't believe I rug swept but maybe my understanding of that meaning is wrong. I dragged every last ounce of information out of her, made her take a polygraph and treated her horribly for years. She has said and done everything humanly possible to regain trust and continues to help me when I struggle with her lies of omission.

I have a question for you…

As backstory I was told 7 years ago that my WS refused a one time kiss and had an overly friendly relationship with his secretary but that was it. Yes I was an idiot to believe that story but I did. He decided to tell me just a few months ago that there were like 20-30 make out sessions over a period of months. Massive amounts of lying. So the lying is something I am as angry about as the PA.

So I sometimes think about things I might lie about or have lied about. There are definitely some things - not cheating but lies.

Have you or do you ever lie to her? Do you tell her if you pick a boogie and eat it? Maybe that’s a bad example but you get the idea. And yes I realize it’s not the same as lying about the ONS but in some ways…

If you don’t then good on you. But sadly many of us do at times. Sometimes that helps me have empathy for his lies. I am really trying to work on empathy

Still, Yes I have lied at times for various reasons but when you're trying to determine whether or not to marry your girlfriend and you ask her point blank if their was anyone else in the 6 years of dating that you strayed off and slept with anybody and she swears on a stack of bibles that she did not, meanwhile 10 years later after marriage and two children she admits to 6 guys. I never lied anywhere near that level of dishonesty.