SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Doesn’t want me to hurt. Apologized for a blowup on me that had happened earlier the night I caught him

If he truly didn't want you to hurt, he either wouldn't have cheated, or would have asked about an open marriage and gotten your assent before doing this and having to get caught. A lot of people don't want others to hurt once they're hurt, but never manage to simply prevent it by thinking before acting.

I feel like I am speechless these days. I have no words. I can’t get my head around his thinking. He seems to be fully rationalizing what he’s been doing as being because our marriage ‘lacks intimacy\lacks certain sex acts’ (I can’t quite tell which one he’s referring to - they aren’t the same thing to me). He knew I would find out. I guess he wanted to be found out. Why would he do that knowing how I was affected before and what it did to my ability to be close to him?

I have a technical question: there are 3 phone numbers. One with the message I posted earlier. A second that had no previous messages just one saying: ?? . The third is the number of the person he says he was involved with - has past text messages. I called the first two. Two different voices, one could be the person he’s referring to. He says they are all her - you can get apps that generate phone numbers. But she doesn’t appear to be married. I see she has kids but no husband on the fb profile. I know I shouldn’t believe anything he says but his explanation comes so easily.

I feel like I am speechless these days. I have no words. I can’t get my head around his thinking.

Oooh btdt. And you won't be able to get your head around it because you aren't cheating.

He seems to be fully rationalizing what he’s been doing as being because our marriage ‘lacks intimacy\lacks certain sex acts’ (I can’t quite tell which one he’s referring to - they aren’t the same thing to me).

This is just bullshit rationalization he's doing to justify his incredibly shitty behavior. Mine pulled this crap after dday too (in fact told me that "the last 5 years have been pure hell" which was infact our entire marriage... funny. He didn't seem to be in hell when I was paying all the bills, taking us on vacations, buying a new house cus he wanted one, buying his cars). This is very common wayward behavior.

He knew I would find out. I guess he wanted to be found out. Why would he do that knowing how I was affected before and what it did to my ability to be close to him?

More rewriting the marital history. SMH. I can't say if this was an exit A for him, but the not caring if he gets caught sure sounds like it IMO.

I have a technical question: there are 3 phone numbers. One with the message I posted earlier. A second that had no previous messages just one saying: ?? . The third is the number of the person he says he was involved with - has past text messages. I called the first two. Two different voices, one could be the person he’s referring to. He says they are all her - you can get apps that generate phone numbers. But she doesn’t appear to be married. I see she has kids but no husband on the fb profile.

I 100% understand the need to know and the obsessive thinking behind it, so I don't blame you at all. But consider a couple things - 1. You giving AP any attention is feeding her feelings of self-importance and delusional grandeur. 2. You calling her and digging and grilling him is inflating HIS already over-inflated sense of importance about himself. 3. AP is a liar too, so anything you hear from her (or them) has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

I know I shouldn’t believe anything he says but his explanation comes so easily.

IMO someone capable of cheating and all the deceit that goes into that is a pretty damn smooth liar. Right now? You have ZERO reason to believe a single sound coming out of his liehole.

I will just say after my turn on the shit merry-go-round of infidelity, when you are dealing with a narcissistic person like mine was (and like yours sure sounds like) the only way to 'win' is not to play the game at all. Mine got off on the feeling of two people 'wanting' him. Once I got to a point where I didn't anymore his mask fell completely off.

Why would he do that knowing how I was affected before and what it did to my ability to be close to him?

Stuck, please understand that the way he thinks and how you think are completely different. He does not have empathy like a normal person otherwise he would be sickened. When people lack empathy, seeing others struggle with pain doesn't affect them the same way it affects us. We're more like supporting actors in a play where they are the star. Sure, he would wave a magic wand if he could and make you totally okay with this but he can't and his sexual desires are simply worth more to him than your safety, wellbeing, and happiness. Your pain doesn't hurt him the way that it does you. He isn't hurt in the same way you are when you see him in pain. Your pain is inconvenient for him at best.

There's no understanding to be had beyond he just. Doesn't. Care. He's only doing whatever is best for himself in the moment. He will only continue to do what is best for himself. And if you stand in the way of that, he expects you to get deal with it. And if you don't, he'll replace you with someone who will. There's no winning here when he is determined to get his way. There is only choosing to not play his game by removing yourself from the situation by detaching and moving on.

Sex acts are /= to intimacy! Your marriage does not lack intimacy because you're not into specific sex acts.

Does it suck if a partner has specific sexual fantasies and their partner isn't into it? Sure. But that is something you have to live with in a closed relationship. People are not dolls for our pleasure.

You should never feel like a bad partner because you don't want to engage in specific sex acts. And honestly, I think anyone who tries to pressure their partner into a sex act they don't want is awfully selfish. How can you not care that your partner doesn't want to do it, and try to persuade them anyway? So gross.

As for compersion..

They mentioned this term several times:

There's actually a word for the joyful feeling that a polyamorous person has when his or her lover or spouse walks through the door after spending the afternoon making love to his or her new girlfriend or boyfriend: compersion. Compersion is such a novel concept that you won't even find the word in the dictionary (unless you look in the Urban dictionary).

I’m guessing this is a fundamental requirement for a poly relationship to be successful. You have already told him that you are monogamous. The above concept doesn’t compute for my brain. Sounds like it would not for you either.

No, compersion isn't a fundamental requirement. Poly people aren't a whole breed apart. We still have to learn to manage emotions, although it's generally encouraged to drill down and sort out your Whys and deal with the root cause, rather than trying to restrict your partner's behaviour. That's assuming your partner is behaving ethically- no one should be trying to deal with their Whys if a partner is breaking agreements! In that case the why for negative feelings is obvious.

But generally, I think most people understand the concept of being happy when their partner is happy. If your partner went out with a friend and had a great time hanging out and came home all smiles, I'm sure you'd be happy for them, right? That's the base idea behind compersion. Not everyone gets to a place where they can be genuinely happy when their partner is dating others, but at the very least, tolerance/neutrality are a must. When new poly people ask for advice on how to manage jealousy or worry about being replaced or anything like that, we encourage them to work on themselves, find time for themselves, and focus on personal growth and development. If you repeatedly get negative emotions when your partner is dating, I think that's a clear sign that you really don't want to be in that kind of relationship at the end of the day. And there's no need to have a relationship style you don't want!

But it really does take time. It's a very, very rare person who is immediately OK with polyamory or open relationships and floods with compersion immediately. That just doesn't happen, especially with societal conditioning. Which is why you really have to want to do this, because you have to be willing to put in the time to work on your communication and emotional management, and to strengthen your existing relationship if there is one (not everyone comes to open relationships while in one, after all). So just because it doesn't immediately warm your heart doesn't mean that it's wrong for you.

Once again- that being said, I don't think it's easy to get to a place where you can have a successful open relationship with a partner who has broken trust. I know a lot of open/poly people, and I know exactly one couple who have been able to rebuild from cheating and transition to an open relationship. But there was genuine remorse and a desire to reconcile, IC and MC with a kink aware therapist, and they still put a ton of limits on their connections to ensure that both partners felt safe. I'm not a big fan of those kind of limitations for a lot of reasons, but I can understand why they felt it was necessary in their case.

Realistically, though... your husband does not sound like someone who is willing to put in the work. Divorce is scary, but you have a much better chance of happiness. Not only do YOU deserve happiness, but your children deserve a happy parent.

When my xWH walked out on us, I thought my world was ending. There are a lot of things in my life that are still bad, but the one thing that isn't is my love life. I've never been happier. But I CHOSE this for myself; no one pressured me into it. If you wouldn't date a brand new person and give an enthusiastic yes to an open relationship, this is not going to make you happy.

It seems my choices are: accept this idea of open marriage, accept that he will always be likely to cheat (probably both at once if I agreed to #1) or turn myself into the kind of sexual being who meets his every need without him seeing any negative feelings in me (somehow magically). None of these options feels good. The last option - divorce - still feels worse, though. It’s one thing for me to be in this situation. Quite another to throw it all onto the kids.

Those aren't the limit of your choices. Choice #4 is to tell him 'No'. Tell him that you absolutely REFUSE to tolerate a cheating husband and that you didn't sign on for an open marriage. Further, you are NOT a sexual vending machine. So, if he wants sex from you, he will put in the work to restore the EMOTIONAL CONNECTION within your marriage. And if he doesn't want to do that, fine. He can go without sex until he does want to restore emotional intimacy within the marriage. Then, look him right in the eye and tell him that if he chooses to go outside the parameters you've laid out for him, that's his prerogative. But it's going to mean a VERY public divorce where everyone in his life finds out what a fucking pervert he is.

Seriously, there are times in life where you have to throw down the gauntlet and FIGHT. When a man is trying to roll over you like that, you can't let him. If you do, there will NEVER be an end to it. He'll treat you like shit until eventually, he dumps you because he won't respect you and something new has come along. Get off the mat and FIGHT for what you want. You might not win, but if you lose, at least you'll still have some self-respect. Every other choice you've outlined above only leads to victimization. Why be a victim if there's still a possibility that you can be the victor????

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 2:55 PM, April 26th (Monday)]

So, of course it as lies. He has already been seeing escorts. Spidey senses had me thinking over recent times when he's been in out and I didn't quite trust the story. Looked through banking info and found e-transfers to a bunch of women's addresses but labelled other things (I guess to sort of hide his tracks?). One payment was for $1746!!! What in the hell?

Others for $350, $have to 100, $50, a couple that were recently sent and cancelled. I have 6 names so far.

Oh I am SO sorry. Been there going through records and it SUUUUCKS. I wish I could give you a hug. I wondered when I first read this. There's always so much more with this kind of man. It's never that one time or I was just looking at this site. There's always an absolute sewer waiting to be discovered. UGH I hate that you're going through this. Don't listen to any of his bullshit reasonings. None of this is your fault. He is a fucked up person with no doubt a million bullshit excuses for absolutely reprehensible inexcusable behavior. This is what he is. This kind of guy does not tend to change.

Thanks Devastated. Your name is fitting! I am at work, num, sitting here putting pieces together. Been here before. Looks like he's signed up on a 'private members hostess lounge' which, to me, looks like a brothel. Apparently massage parlour that is unregulated because it is private members only. In my city. I can't get into one credit card to look through the records online, but I plan to. Need all the info. From what I can see this has just gone back a couple of months, but I suspect there is more.

Girl, there is more. I hate to say that and I didn't jump in this thread with that comment earlier because I didn't want to be that person, but there is more. I kept finding out stuff after I was done with him and left because friends would tell me. I know you have to know, I really do. I've been there. But you'll never know it all and there really is always more. He will never admit it. You'll get him to admit what you find on your own maybe, and you might even get one other tidbit to throw you off searching more because "hey, I told her something she didn't find out herself so she might believe that this is all". That's almost certainly how it will go. There seems to be quite the pattern with these guys.

Luckily I'm not so devastated anymore, lol. I'm actually quite happy, but it certainly fit when I joined.

I spent an entire day at work creating a very elaborate spreadsheet with each prostitutes phone number with times and dates of calls and texts for every one. So you might get obsessive for a while. It's inescapable. Ride it out and let the data talk to your brain. I don't think there's a way through this without that phase. It's a desperate need to know what your own life has been and I so get it.

In open relationships, the power and sexual dynamic is in the hands of the female partner.

Just understand that if your morals/values/character allow you to entertain that idea and sleep around, you'll most likely be having more fun than your husband.

In open relationships, the power and sexual dynamic is in the hands of the female partner.

Wow, generalize much???

I'm so sorry. Cheating is painful, no matter the circumstances... but hookers are just gross. Please get ALL the STD testing immediately.

It's really hard not to be paralyzed by the shock, but I really do think you need to lock your finances down. Take exactly half of what's in your joint accounts out and put it in your name only. Freeze your credit, change beneficiaries on any insurance policies, and in short, do everything you can to lock down the money. See an attorney as soon as possible.

My own WH went on a Craiglist binge for nearly a year, so while it wasn't hookers per se, they were some really nasty women who were looking for "gifts". He didn't spend a whole lot because he couldn't have gotten large sums past me, but it was probably about 5k during that year. It's an additional sock to the gut that while you're at your job, typically working like your hair is on fire, he's out catting around on the money. Every time I found a transaction where he spent money on one of those whores, I almost immediately calculated it into my dollar-per-hour, wondering how many hours of my life that I had worked so he could fuck some nasty strange.

It's your choice if you still want to try R, but I'll be honest with you... I walked. I came out swinging for the fence on divorce. It was all my WH could do to slow me down. And really, that's what you're looking for. You're looking for him to be following YOU, begging YOU for another chance and willing to do anything to get get it. As it turned out, my WH was willing to work really hard on recovery, including taking a job transfer and moving us to another state. So, things can work out. But you shouldn't accept less than full remorse and a genuine need to make things right.

I wish there were someway we could magically help you but all of us know that you have to go through hell to get to the other side. He is so damaged that there’s no fixing him. He doesn’t care if he hurts you. That’s what you need to deal with. He doesn’t care. It would not surprise me that if you divorced he would stop seeing the children. What happened is the face mask came off and you are looking at the real monster you live with.

We are here for you during this horrible journey, though. It's bad, no way around it. It hurts like nothing else ever. You won't be walking through it alone. We've all been there and we know what it's like. You will make it through this, I promise that. It will get better. In the meantime, we're here.

Wow, generalize much???

Not really. Outside of men paying for it, which is another issue altogether, sex will always be easier for (western) women to have than men. The caveat being, of course, female promiscuity is judged harshly to extremely violently in some cultures—not a lot of opportunity. Western females don't have to worry about that (at least, until the question of body count comes up in a potential relationship).

The only thing that stops a woman from racking up a high body count in the West is morals, values and character. Without positive traits in those areas, most women will have body counts in the triple digits by the age of 25.

It would take men considerably more work (and risk) to achieve the same rate. There are a lot of factors that play into this, starting with the simple fact men tend to pursue more (wife gets more attention), while women are generally more selective for sex partners (good looking and big dick?).

Unless you're doing an Open Relationship/Swinger duality (you sleep with husband, he sleeps with wife), the female will always have the upper hand in-terms of selection.

[This message edited by RizerStrike at 7:04 PM, April 27th (Tuesday)]

You make a lot of assertions without facts to back them up. Who is this helping?

Rizer- I’m not sure I’m understanding the point of your post. You’re saying that if I were decide on an open marriage I would get more partners than a man would?

I ended up having a conversation with him after work. I didn’t tell him what I’d found but he must have sense it as he came clean anyway. He apparently gave $1780 to one girl - an escort or massage person - to pay her rent!!! He likes the attention. Liked feeling like he had money. can’t even. He has paid for hotel rooms.

I’m not sure I can process it all. He said all the right things again, but again maintained that our sex life was dry, we are incompatible, he felt resentful, etc. But he doesn’t blame me and he’s sorry. He doesn’t want me to hurt. He wants to do whatever I need.

He slept with 4 different woman since January.