SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is the crux of the matter. You're in negotiations with your wife to stop talking with her boyfriend.

Your wife has a boyfriend.

She knows you know about him and yet will not stop talking to her boyfriend even out of respect to you or your marriage.

She's conflicted about whether to stay in the marriage or whether she needs that illicit sex she's been having.

You know what she's been up to. She knows you know what she's been up to and yet here you are.

Here you are waiting and hoping your wife gives up her boyfriend about whom she's been lying and deceiving you and possibly exposing you to STDs.

She knows you know, he knows you know and yet he still takes your wife.

Are you afraid if you divorce her she'll run straight to him..kind of like she's doing now anyway?

Are you afraid if you tell her to stop talking to him she'll go behind your back kind of like she's doing now anyway?

She gets to still live in your house, have a roof over her head, a marriage and a boyfriend.

The only person losing out on this sweet sweet deal is you.

Are you familiar with the 180?

and no contact is not some final meeting where they can get "closure" with sobs and tears that the world is tearing them apart despite their deep and abiding love. nope.

no contact is a brief letter written by her, which you send ... and then ... wait for it ... no contact. never. of the variety that if she saw him in grocery store she better be running out the door and if he is saying he wants to just talk she tells him if he persists she calls the police. and if he does persist she calls the police on him.

thats no contact.

or ... you can share your wife with him. because thats what it is. she cant un-ring that bell.

you cant make your wife do anything. all you can do is state your boundaries.

wife, i love you but your insistence on having a boyfriend is forcing me to reconsider my level of committment to our marriage. without no contact i am forced to assume the affair is ongoing and i will act accordingly.

if she agrees it will probably involve new phone numbers, blocking on social media, etc to help maintain nc.

she needs to agree to no continuing or new inappropriate behavior or acting out, including affairs.

she needs to agree to complete transparency and honesty.

then, you need the passwords to all electronic media and devices so you can periodically check to ensure no contact is still being maintained. it would be unreasonable of her to demand that you trust her when her actions prove her to be a proven liar and cheat.

then you need the truth. the full truth. usually there is alot of questioning back and forth about what happened, when, and the eternal why (to which there is no real good answer, ever). but whats really vital also is a written timeline outlining her betrayal.

a written timeline is important. it helps you understand what happened. if you end up reconciling how can you eventually come to acceptance if you dont even know what you are supposed to be accepting (trust me, later this important). in addition, being written it is a good way to catch lies.

she needs to know that for a short period of time she can give a timeline and although you cant promise you will reconcile you can promise you wont immediately leave over new revelations. BUT that if anything significant is missing from this timeline and you later learn of it then you will be re-evaluate your willingness to remain in the marriage.

then you need remorse. regret is her feeling sorry for the trouble, all the mess falling on her, and herself. its generally a selfish thing.

i dont like it when you are mad at me because it makes me feel uncomfortable and id really rather just rugsweep this and pretend it never happened. we need to just move past this. thats rug sweeping type stuff.

remore is her hitting a holy crap i just devastated this guy who loved me more than i ever deserved and for no reason other than im a selfish and self entitled ass hole. you WILL know it when you see it but dont be fooled by fake tears and sexbombing (she basically tries to sex you into accepting something).

she will need some sort of counseling. she is broken inside and has proved shes unsafe as a partner so she is going to have to fix whatever inside her. she has to "do the work".

once you have ALL of the above you have to watch for awhile and see if actions line up with words. if they consistently do then and only then is she even a candidate for reconciliation.

a common suggestion is to wait 4-6 months before making serious life altering decisions. that, of course, is predicated that shes done ALL of the above.

if she either refuses to do the above or substantially violates them whether in word or spirit then you know shes not a candidate for reconciliation. in which case you are reduced to binary options.

1: accept that your wife is going to have a boyfriend. if this is okay with you maybe some kind of schedule - perhaps 2-3 days set aside of her bf every week. you would also have to discuss hygiene and wear a condom but... its doable.

2: decide that your wife having a boyfriend is not acceptable and file for divorce.

its not a huge list of things you "need" but they arent negotiables. they are the bare essentials. you can ask for more but anything less will never allow you to possibly R later.

Dear Bigger I sincerely thank you for your reply, I now better understand your point of view and where you are coming from, and we all do our best to help another poor BS, and agree that strategy is essential to achieve an end goal, thank you brother.

Dear Barry, please know that we all here care about you and do our best to help you, you here have your brothers and sisters who are on your side and who think along with you, you are not alone but have a 56000+ person strong army with you, know and remember that brother, strength & hugs, stay strong!

YOU WILL NEVER FORGET THE WAY YOU HANDLE THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. If you continue to wait for her to make a decision, if you continue to be unable to do as Bigger suggests and let her know that 3 in the marriage will not continue for another minute, if you can't stand up for yourself and move yourself out of infidelity... you will never forgive YOURSELF.

No matter what happens with your wife - divorce or reconciliation - 5, 10, 20 years down the road you will remember what happened and you will remember your reaction. I promise you, you will look yourself in the mirror and curse yourself for letting her dictate YOUR life story. You will wish to high heaven that you had put your foot down and stood up for yourself. You will always regret allowing yourself to be PLAN B in your own marriage. You will hate yourself for not having more self respect for YOU.

I love this statement by life is crazy.

Be strong Barry...easier said than done, I know. You've got this.

Barry.

Write out what your going to say.

List your requirements.

Also record the conversation.

Your getting some of the best advice you can get.

I look back at how I handlled the whole thing a lot.

And regret doing the pick me dance and trying to

Nice her back. I'm ashamed of myself. Don't be me.

Confront her now. Do it right. Get out of infidely now.

You can do it.

Well I'm starting to wish I can unhear what she told me. I have an admission that she slept with him on numerous occasions in cars. I can't even handle all the details, and their were talks of taking vacations together. I gave her a choice me or him and if so she has to quit today she go no contact. She said sorry but that she's in love with him but wants our marriage back so she will meet my demands. She's going to quit today (we don't need the money she is in the job basically because of boredom). Well I don't even feel better. My wife has just admitted she's in love with this other guy and has fucked him more than once. I'm broken, if she doesn't do what she says today then I know the marriage is over. I had the convo recorded also...

Strength and hugs to you brother, you did well given the current circumstances and this looks good and I am happy for you, this is one battle won, see what happens now and stay on your guard and we are here for you, strength & hugs

You did as well as could be expected given the shit sandwich you received. Keep listening to the more experienced posters on here. They have walked in your shoes and you can learn from what they did right and what they did wrong. Remember, even if your wife wants to work on your M it is up to you decide if you want to R or D. Because she says she's seen the light doesn't mean it isn't a deal breaker for you. Strength and courage to you Barry

Barry. Good for you.

Instead of being a passenger on the crazy bus your gonna drive the MFer.

I'm glad she is quitting today. That's a big step in the right direction.

Sorry there was more to her story. Have her do a time line and back it up with a poly. You want all the truth if you want to trust her again.

She must go NC. Must.

Have her write a NC letter and send to her AP.

Strict NC.

IC for both of you. You need to heal and she needs to develop better coping skills so she will be a safe partner in the future.

You did it right. You will survive this.

Keep checking in, you will get great guidance. You are in hell, but we are here.

It's hard to see, but you can and will get through this.

Over time, you may find that what your wife has done is too much of a deal-breaker for you to continue. That's not your fault, and as long as you keep following the advice here and putting the work in, you and your kids will be ok -- eventually better than ok.

However, you may also find that you will discover something deep inside of you, something you never knew existed, a part of your essence that will allow you to rise above this, find a way back into your marriage, together with your wife, and feel good about it in the end. If that happens, you will be a shining example of the strength of men (borrowed from Chance819). If it happens, it will be because of you and your character.

She must prove herself to you in every way imaginable, and even if she does it still may not be enough. That's ok. What she has done is cruel and destructive and wrong; no one deserves it and no one has to put up with it, ever.

But know that marriages can be saved. People can and do come back from this, and can find themselves in a better place on the other side -- better than they ever imagined. But it takes incredible strength and work.

Very likely, you still haven't reached the point where healing will begin. There will be a fresh hell tomorrow, and again and again, probably. I hope I'm wrong, but wisdom tells me I'm not. Be ready for this and plan your reactions ahead of time.

Muster your strength, expect the unexpected, be firm in your convictions and expectations. Stand up now and fight, for you, your kids, and if you want, your marriage.

But take no shit. Beginning now, if you put up with any more shit from your wife, you've already lost.

Yes it sucks, but it would seem you got a fairly full disclosure.

Better now than trickle truth over months after you have agreed to reconcile.

You need to set your conditions and make her understand that you still reserve the option of divorce at any point if she deviates from those or lies about anything.

She also needs to understand that this is not an automatic thing, she has a lot of work to do to prove herself a safe partner again, which includes IC for sure, then later MC.

You also need his name and contact info to determine if he is married so you can inform his spouse (do not tell your wife you plan to do this or she will warn him).

Also insist on a full STD test panel for you both, and again in six months.

Do NOT be intimate with her until the initial panel results are back and clean...this is for your health and safety, not as a punishment.

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 8:01 AM, February 7th (Tuesday)]

Barry I'm sorry this is happening, we all know and have felt your pain, you are not alone, you are among people that have been or are currently in your situation.

I know it cuts like a knife right through your soul, it crushes your manhood to find out our wife is being intimate with another man.

However don't believe her that she is "in love" with him. That is NOT true, she is in the affair fog, she is "in love" with the fantasy. Also I read that WSs say they are "in love" with their AP to help justify their selfish actions.

This is going to be really hard for you to get past. It will take years, this will now be part of your marriage forever. You are handling it very well, you are doing great even though you are in horrible pain.

Many WSs never come clean or don't take steps to end the affair. From what you said your WW has agreed never to return to her job, go NC with the OM, and seek IC to understand and correct her behavior.

That is great news, you have moved your WS very quickly out of the affair and towards possible R.

Take some time and think about what you want before agreeing on R. Your WS needs to sweat it out for a bit, make her work for it before you agree to R. See if she follows through with what she has promised before committing to R the marriage.

I hope you have a better day today, it seems you are gaining control of the situation. Hang in there, we are all here for you. Again you are doing really well, and very quickly too.

[This message edited by soulhurt at 8:08 AM, February 7th (Tuesday)]

Barry

I think the biggest mistake we BS make after D-day is setting carved-in-stone ultimatum-like conditions that the WS must meet or else and then leaning back and waiting for them to comply. This is what most BS do and IMHO it only leads to inaction and a stare-competition where both wait for the other to blink.

What I want you to do is set off on YOUR path out of infidelity. You aren’t waiting for her, but you are open for her to catch up with you. She can do what she wants to do but YOU are getting out of infidelity.

I have used the train-journey analogy for this. Imagine you had to make a life-saving trip to another city and the only way to get there is by train. You tell your wife about the journey and ask she comes along. She refuses. You pack your bag and ask her to pack her stuff. She refuses. You might even throw some of her necessities into a bag and take it to the car. She won’t. You ask her to come along for the car-ride to the station. She reluctantly agrees. At the station, you buy two tickets and offer her one. She refuses. She follows you to the platform where you offer her to board the train with you. She refuses. You stand in the doorway and ask her once again to come aboard. She refuses. The train starts pulling out of the station. You tell her she can still jump on board. She refuses… The train builds up speed and soon her ability and options to jump on board are no longer there… But YOU are on the train heading for your destination.

This is what I offer you. A path full of chances for her to jump on board, but with you ALWAYS moving towards your destination. In the above analogy then buying the ticket might be compared to filing for divorce. That didn’t happen right away – it was part of the process of setting off to your destination.

My plan doesn’t force you to file NOW. It doesn’t force you to decide whether to divorce or reconcile. What it does is make you decide if you can accept if your wife is having an affair or not and then reacting based on the reality of the situation.

Basically, in my suggestion – if you aren’t willing to share her – all you do is tell her that you don’t see this as a marriage and that if things don’t change YOU are OK with that. She can do what she wants but YOU are moving on.

For some time, she can commit to the marriage – just like she can go on the journey with you. Her decision will impact how the next steps on your then-joint journey will be. But as you get further along on YOUR journey her options will become limited as YOU go along.

Just like the train-journey has some fixed requirements (she must go to the station, she must have a ticket, she can’t jump off at the next stop and then on board again on the next stop after that) the your combined journey has some fixed requirements (NC, accountability etc.). Some of those requirements might be negotiable to some point, but more on the implementation level.

I absolutely HATE ultimatums. Only use ultimatums you are willing to see through. Don’t say things like “If you see OM I am filing” unless you are willing to file. What you could rather do is say something like:

“I think we could work on our marriage. I know it will be tough but right now I think we could do it. However, this is based on how I feel right now. If I was to learn of continued contact or ongoing infidelity, then that belief will diminish. Right now, I reluctantly prefer ending our marriage to sharing you. If the pain carries on that might change to me gratefully accept ending our marriage.”

One thing to keep in mind: Friend – no matter what truth she might tell you now then I believe you can reconcile the marriage if that’s what you both want.

You NEED the absolute truth.

Even if that includes hearing they had sex or this has been going on for months or whatever.

I can promise you this: If you learn NOW about them having had sex… It will do less damage to your marriages chance of reconciliation than learning 6 months from now that she had once given him a hand-job or whatever.

I can’t stress this enough. Nothing will delay possible reconciliation more than doubts about the truth.

Right now – based on what you share – I would stick to the plot I suggested.

Tell her that she can decide what she wants to do but until and unless she commits to the marriage then YOU are moving out of infidelity. Tell her that words are fine, everything starts with words. But they need to be met with actions. Until she can follow the words through with actions YOU are heading for that journey and it’s only a question of how much momentum you will have gathered before she meets your requirements and if the possibility for her to jump on board is still there.

Yeah she's already admitted to not using protection so STD tests need to be arranged. Well this is just terrible, words cannot describe how I feel like less of a man. I don't know how many times they did it and I can't handle all the details right now. They exchanged I love you's and talked about running away together. I expect the details of the affair are far worse than I already know or want to find out. She has been mostly silent, and to be completely honest I don't know if she's committed to working on the marriage despite what she says. The way she said she loved him tore at my heart. OM was completely aware of our marriage, so I guess this was a huge ego boost for him. The other mans son also goes to the same high school as one of our kids, perfect..

What is their work relationship?

Boss-staff? Same level?

Barry,

I'm so sorry that this was indeed more than she originally said it was. It is rare that the collective wisdom of SI is wrong. Not because your wife isn't her own person and that your situation isn't unique, but because cheating as a behavior and the way people react to it isn't. We have unfortunately seen this movie before. This is not to say, nyah, nyah, we were right. But any new BH immediately resists some of the advice they receive here and says, Not my wife. She wouldn't do that. She wouldn't lie to me like that. I know I did. And then ultimately, the truth comes out. Point is, you don't need to follow everything you are told here, but don't discount this place so quickly either.

But I am glad you are taking firmer action and setting boundaries.

Now that you know it was a PA (physical affair) and is an EA (emotional affair), this is going to be a tough ride ahead. For tactics, read william's post above. I will say that my wife had both an EA and PA and I am in R and we are 18 months out from DDay. I credit that to this place, the advice I received and the actions I took as a result. And my wife was remorseful and worked her tail off at R (and still does). Even still, it is tremendously difficult. But saving your marriage, if that's what you want, is possible.

D is also a perfectly acceptable and honorable route as well in the wake of what has happened. Please know that.

Your wife is in love, real or imagined, and it's all Fantasy Land, where there are rainbows everyday, and unicorns shit skittles. There are no kids to deal with, no bills to pay, no carpool, laundry, cooking, oil changes, nothing. Just fun and romance. It will take swift and decisive action to wake her the hell up. And even still, it may not happen. But I can guarantee that if you don't immediately develop a titanium spine, she will stick with the boyfriend.

Someone mentioned this, but I'll reiterate, STD tests for you both. Immediately. No wavering on this.

Look, don't make any decisions now about your marriage. It's too soon and your reeling from the info you now have. Take your time. Understand that if you try and reconcile, it will still take 2-5 YEARS to recover from this. That is not an exaggeration. It is an emotional roller coaster and you are in no condition to make life altering choices now. First things first. Get yourself out of infidelity. No waffling on her part. Boyfriend or you. And if she wavers, follow Bigger's script and proceed to end the marriage and get yourself out of infidelity. And if she chooses you, that doesn't mean you cannot pull the plug on the marriage at any time if you so choose. You can. But at least you'll know that you won't be sharing her. And that is something to perhaps build on.

Please keep posting here. We've been there. We each have our own stories, but we've been where you are. It sucks, we know. But we are here for you.

Sending strength.

Past BH here- same story as yours. You can take the advice being given here or not. Only you can decide to gather up the balls to do it.

Listen to me when I tell you- her working with the OM has got to end- RIGHT NOW. You have no other way forward that doesn't involve her staying in the affair without that. Anything less than her or him gone from that job and they will back off, go underground, and carry on the affair under cover of work.

You've compromised yourself letting her know about the var. Now, she will say nothing- and do nothing- anywhere it is possible you have planted a var.

Nothing you can do can monitor her still working with OM. Full phone monitoring software? She'll just leave her phone somewhere while she screws him in his car, or in an unused conference room, or a closet, or a supply room, or even an office with a locked door. She's already proven she will do this by the encounter in her car. Even a PI can't penetrate a work environment without getting shown the door- or worse. Chances are, they are hiding it from other coworkers as well. Sometimes coworkers know, sometimes they don't, sometimes they dont care. But rest assured if she still works there she will still be talking to him and they will continue to disrespect you even if its only a knowing wink across a crowded room.

You have to DESTROY the affair any way possible. You have to make it the worst thing that has ever happened to her to make her life 'get real'. You have to visit consequences on OM as well- get him running for the hills and rueing the day he messed with your wife. Exposure does this. My attorney cautioned me not to expose to the workplace in case of divorce. I wish I had not listened and done it.

What WW think they want when they get to where yours is- when they won't work with you- won't let go of the affair- is basically out of the marriage. They have destroyed the marriage and they know it- killed it deader-than-hell by their own hands and they can't have a do-over. Nothing will ever be the same- and you know this. They want you to shut-up and let them do their thing. They want to separate- not divorce. Why? To give them time. Time to delete and cover up any evidence of the affair. Time to paint the story that you and her have 'grown apart'. Time to rewrite history that you and her have been on the rocks and she hasn't been happy in a long time. Time to make it look like to friends and family that she is trying to save your 'troubled' marriage. Time to let friends and family know 'its not working out' and garner sympathy. Time to get her ducks in a row to divorce you later with the best deal possible for HER. What she wants is to save face- and have time to orchestrate her 'out' to where she can exit with her reputation intact- then later to friends and family she will 'meet the sweetest man' and be able to pass OM off as her new whirlwind fairytale romance who came into her life at her time of sorrow over her failed marriage and swept her off her feet. If you do not file on her now and expose- that WILL be her plan if the OM wants her. She will deny deny deny anything you tell others later. And you will end up looking to the world as the bad guy- and also regretting being weak the rest of your life.

File and expose. If she wants to attempt to R then she comes clean and takes her lumps and does all the things you need her to do. Otherwise, roll on with the divorce.

If possible, during your talks get her admitting to the affair. In all but a few areas it is perfectly legal to record a face to face conversation with your wife (look up your laws to be sure). Have her write a detailed timeline. This gets it all out in the open where she can't deny it. Carrying a var to record interactions with her is good advice right now anyway as a precaution to false DV charges to get you thrown out of the house.

Listen to the experienced posters here. We've all been through this crap and have seen firsthand what works and what doesn't. good luck.

you are doing well. it might not seem it but you are. id suggest helping her with nc. new phone #, block on social media, etc. get all pass words to everything! nothing is to be deleted

I just asked that now and she let me know that she's on the same level as him. It all started off as a workplace flirtation on breaks which progressed to intimate talks and actions on breaks, sneaking kisses when no one was around. I was told he was flirting heavily with her and would listen to all of her problems. I was told other co-workers were suspicious of them so they toned it a down a bit. I feel sick.