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Jan 17th was day she told me she wanted a separation over me forgetting to put my underwear in the laundry basket. I found out about OM a few days later which prompted me to request she go no contact. She lied about going NC, and it became physical feb 4th according to her. Yes she said she thinks she has feelings for him and thinks I don't appreciate her or what she does anymore. She has mentioned being "torn". Year ago she made a scrapbook that took a good amount of effort showing off our relationship. She has also mentioned being "miserable" I promise this was not the case..

barry,

Question: Does your wife want to remain married to you? With all that entails? Meaning quitting her job, maintaining No Contact, full disclosure, IC for her and MC (after a period of time) for you both? Where does she stand? Because a great deal depends on that.

What do you want? Would it matter if they did have sex?

I don't know if they did or didn't. In my mind, she asked for a separation. Meaning, it could be she wanted to have sex with him, but couldn't do that while married so she wanted to pull a Ross. "We were on a break!" If she was separated, then in her mind, the marriage would be on hold, so to speak. Or, she's lying to you because if she admitted it, perhaps you'd say you were done. I will say that a spouse saying that they didn't have sex is the most common lie we see here.

So, you need to know the truth. If she is committed to you and your marriage, and agrees to the conditions I wrote further above, then you should ask her to take a polygraph test. Not as a punishment. But because any kind of infidelity is a violation of trust and this could go a long way toward reestablishing that trust if she is indeed telling the truth. And if she is, and they didn't have sex, then she should jump all over the chance to show you that she's being honest. If she balks at the request, well, then that's very telling.

So she is basically unrepentant at this point then?

If so I would prepare for D, get ready financially by closing all joint accounts, opening new accounts in your name only and at differernt banks, freeze your credit so she cannot open any new accounts that you will be responsible for.

Have a consult with a lawyer to explore your rights and file if you feel it's time to do so, have her served at work in front of her coworkers.

Inform her family that you plan to D and why...this may apply a lot of pressure too.

If you want any chance of saving your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it.

She has mentioned being "torn".

Translation:

"You, my husband, are just an option for me."

I don't know you, but I'm guessing that your wife is not an "option" for you. For you, she's a priority.

She's telling you that you're an option. That's as good as her telling you that she doesn't value you in the same way that you value her.

Just making out? Does that pass the smell test ? Adults don't go in a car to make out like young teenagers. At a bare minimum she was giving a BJ.

If you were to read the threads here as well as TAM and LS, you'll see the pattern of WWs being way more sexually adventurous with their OM than they ever were with their BH.

Barry it's so common for cheaters to rewrite marital history because it's how they can justify what they do. None of those reasons are a reason to cheat. If your wife was unhappy ,she needed to tell you. Instead she lowered her boundaries and pursued extra marital activity.

She must realize the hard work it is going to take to repair the damage she has caused and the odds will be stacked against you. You have to decide what you want . Best of luck to you.

Barry.

I’m going to do something I have never ever done before.

I’m going to outline EXACTLY what you should do, step-by-step. I have done that numerous times since I first signed up to SI back in… wow… 2005…

What’s unique is that I am going to tell you to ONLY read my post and ONLY follow the advice offered in that one post.

Ignore everything else!

It’s not that others are offering bad advice. Far from it. But what I’m going to suggest is something many of us build on with varying versions and emphasis. Experience has shown us repeatedly that it works. It gets you out of infidelity.

I feel that right now you are seeking advice on how to react to your house being on fire, and we are arguing over the benefits and disadvantages of water versus foam or chemical extinguishers. While you wait, and do nothing… your house burns…

First thing:

Sit down and think REAL HARD what the worst possible outcome would be from the present situation…

Imagine yourself 6 months from today… What would be the ABSOLUTE worst situation to be in?

Would it be divorce? Well… If losing your wife is your main fear, then why risk creating the situation that might lead to divorce. Let your wife have her lover. They can hold hands at work and you turn a blind eye and pretend to “understand” when she must work late, go for an overnight “conference” or dress up for an evening’s “meeting with a client”. I would suggest you use a condom when you get some and – for the sake of taste – then maybe your days are Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursday. OM and WW can have the other days…

Do this and maybe you can have some semblance of a marriage. Maybe with time OM will move on and WW might come back to the marriage. With time her options for OM will diminish and maybe you can have the golden years with her…

Sound like a good deal?

If so then don’t bother reading on.

If that doesn’t sound good, then THINK!!!! What’s the worst outcome?

I would hope your worst-case-scenario six months from now would be having a wife that is in an affair. To be still wondering where she is, what she’s doing…

I would hope that the absolute WORST thing would be SHARING your wife!!!

Agree? Then read on.

The path I’m offering you does not lead you to divorce nor reconciliation. It leads you out of infidelity.

The two “good” options out of infidelity are reconciliation and divorce. Anything else isn’t out of infidelity but – at best – an extended stay on the borders of infidelity. Fortunately for you the path out of infidelity (POOI) starts the same but forks later into R or D. Even at that fork you have options to cross over to the other fork BUT to get to POOI you NEED to keep momentum.

To R you need two things: You need to want to R and be committed to it and you need WW to want to R and be committed to it. It’s not enough that you put 110% effort into R if WW only puts 10%. So, you can ONLY R if WW commits to it. Sort of like one hand trying to clap.

To D you only need one spouse wanting to D. Even if your WW wants a separation rather than D then it’s enough that YOU chose to D instead. Don’t need her approval or acceptance. Same with her – she can file no matter what you want or say.

Are we clear so far? You both need to commit to R. Only one needs to want D.

Then realize that your wife can only offer you two options: She can commit to R or she can carry on the affair. You need to realize that the latter is a commitment to YOU experiencing your worst fear…

So… Get your wife to sit down. Learn this speech word-for-word (joke. You can reword it but make sure this content gets across):

“Wife. I love you and really thought our marriage would last forever. I would do a lot to make our marriage work and I do believe our history and our children do deserve we try. However, I have realized that losing you isn’t the worst outcome. I lost you the moment you decided to have an affair with OM. What is immensely worse than losing you is SHARING you. I refuse to share you. It is insulting and degrading for me, and I refuse to accept being a cuckold.

Furthermore, if you truly have these strong emotions for OM (use his name) then – since I do love you – I would be wrong in holding back on you. I want to be a husband and not a warden.

You are totally free to see OM, to date OM, to be with OM. You can kiss him, hold his hand, have sex, spend your nights with him. Whatever. BUT NOT AS MY WIFE!!!

I have decided that unless you tell me in a very clear and unequivocal way that you want the marriage and are willing to commit to the work needed to save the marriage then you are in infidelity. I won’t be agonizing over if you are meeting OM, what you two are doing.

If you can’t commit to the marriage and the conditions required for us to reconcile I am simply assuming the affair is ongoing and our marriage dying. I will start the process of terminating our marriage, both emotionally and formally.

This is a process and it takes time. I am moving out of infidelity and you can come with me, but only if you freely and willingly want to. I am content with the decision to end our marriage. It’s not what I want, but it beats staying in infidelity. The further I get along on this path the less likely I am to want to return.”

And then you stand up, whistle a tune and make a sandwich.

As if you are totally 100% content with your decision.

Realize that it’s not a decision to divorce.

It’s a decision to leave infidelity.

If she says she wants the marriage, then you list your conditions.

Things like the total truth. Accountability. Open access. IC to realize why. MC to help you two…

If she argues then you stick to your path.

If she starts saying things like “I had to cheat because you ignored me” you answer “I am sorry you feel that way. If we were working on the marriage we could address that issue in MC, but since you are committed to your affair there isn’t a need to go there”

That answer is used on EVERYTHING she throws at you. EVERYTHING!!!

She starts talking about divorce and how it goes you say:

“I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to rationally and logically deal with divorce. I plan on being fair and trust there are laws and procedures that ensure both our rights. I will place all the details into the hands of my attorney. I suggest you do the same. Please don’t talk about these things directly to me”

And you move on. You start gathering financial info. You start researching attorneys. You start moving on.

Follow this advice and I guess your chances of ending divorced are 1/5th at the most. That beats the 99/100 chances that the affair is ongoing right now. Once she realizes you are not willing to accept her having a lover or taking time-out from the marriage… she will come back.

Jan 17th was day she told me she wanted a separation over me forgetting to put my underwear in the laundry basket. I found out about OM a few days later which prompted me to request she go no contact. She lied about going NC, and it became physical feb 4th according to her. Yes she said she thinks she has feelings for him and thinks I don't appreciate her or what she does anymore. She has mentioned being "torn". Year ago she made a scrapbook that took a good amount of effort showing off our relationship. She has also mentioned being "miserable" I promise this was not the case..

A few items from the cheaters handbook that might help you with what's going on:

a) Cheaters want a (trial) "separation" because they want to be free to screw the AP, without having to deal with the BS finding out.

b) Cheaters only tell the BS what they already know.

c) Cheaters like to cake-eat. That is, have the BS at home being stable, taking care of the house, kids, etc., while they get to have some fun action on the side.

d) Cheaters will rewrite the marriage history to justify their cheating.

So, let's put your WW's comments through the bullshit/cheater's handbook translator and see what it says:

I want a separation from you because I've found a new guy that I'm infatuated with and want to screw. Right now, we're doing it in cars, and I want a place where I can do it without you being around, so I want a separation, "To figure things out; what she wants to do." Will you still support me though?

I know what I'm doing is wrong, but to make myself feel better, I've decided that I've been unhappy for a long time, even though I didn't say anything to you or anyone else.

What we know here at SI is that only when the BS puts their foot down and stops buying the bullshit the WS is selling, do things start to change. Right now, your WW is feeding you lines, hoping that you will either buy it and let her continue the A, or at worst (in her eyes) rugsweep it, although she might lose her (current) boyfriend.

One of the hardest things we BSs have to come to grips with, is that we can't control our spouse's behavior. They either will, or won't cheat. That's on them. There is NOTHING you can do that will prevent them from cheating - you can't be the nicest husband, you can't shower her with praise/gifts, you can't be superdad, you can't let her go out and party with friends. NONE of it matters, because she is cheating because she is broken inside. It has nothing to do with you.

However, YOU can choose to either stay in, or get out of, infidelity. That means letting your WW know what your boundaries are, what your conditions for giving her the gift of reconciliation are. If she does them, great! - you have a shot at R (you may decide later its a complete dealbreaker). If not, then you can D (or stay a cuckold, YOUR choice at that point).

But only YOU can choose to remain in a relationship where the other is cheating. YOU can choose to not be miserable.

chances are there is more. terrible as that is, be prepared for it to get worse. her evolving story is called trickle truth.

her marriage rewrite is normal. its how she rationalizes her behavior so as to not be the bad guy. minimizing, blame shifting, trickle truth, and lying are the 4 horsemen of infidelity. her doing them isnt surprising, her not doing them would be the shocker.

From Bigger:

I’m going to outline EXACTLY what you should do, step-by-step.

If I could offer just one piece of advice to every new person here, I'd probably just tell them to do whatever Bigger says.

With OM supposedly being divorced, OP's WW is very likely to leave if this OM is willing to accept her with another man's kids.

I find that most WWs would prefer to leave, but the problem is that most OMs are not looking to take on a cheating divorcé with kids nor do most of them want to leave their marriage to become part time dads. Not to forget that so many times they affair down. Attracted to the bad boy syndrome. So they go back to plan B, rarely is their heart in it though.

But if OM wants them, they're usually out the door. Look at ManualGTR, his STBXW chose divorced OM with kids that she's known for a few months over her high school sweetheart husband of many years.

So you must prepare mentally for the possibility that she may choose to leave.

[This message edited by Jsmart at 9:13 AM, February 6th (Monday)]

Jsmart – I respect your view and your comment and it is a possible end-result…

But… If the fear of WW possibly choosing to remain in infidelity holds back on Barry from taking action… Then it’s like worrying that the chemicals from the extinguisher might stain the curtains and carpet. While doing nothing his house/marriage burns.

Yes Barry, she MIGHT choose OM. But if she does then you have your answer. Six months from now you won’t be in infidelity.

BTW – with ManualGTR his wife decided to be with OM when Manual had told her he didn’t want the marriage. ManualGTR didn’t follow the script…

Bigger, I definitely agree.

I bring that up so that he's not shocked if that is her decision. Too many BHs are not prepared when they learn that their WW is not willing to fight for the marriage . There's a false sense that the BH has a possibility of pursuing R.

As for ManuelGTR , everything He's shared tells me this was an exit affair. His bold shock and awe worked for a short time but she never let go of the new branch. Which is why the day after begging for a second chance, she's back in Om's bed.

Things could be different for OP because there are 3 kids in the picture.

[This message edited by Jsmart at 9:45 AM, February 6th (Monday)]

Oh man I'm so sorry this is happening to you. The pain you are expressing is the worst. Please hide the VAR do not let her have it or give her tue recording. Recording her without her permission is illegal!!! Hide the VAR and never mention it again. If she does tell the police you did this, then lie and say you were only bluffing about recording her to obtain a confession from her.

If you are not ready to end the marriage and she wants to save the marraige here are some conditions you should consider.

1. She must quit her job today.

2. NC letter to the OM that you approve.

3. Full transparency on all her devices.

4. All passwords to everything

5. Complete timeline all details.

6. Polygraph test.

7. She starts IC to find out her problem.

Great post, Bigger

When you said that your WW wanted a separation becuase you didn't fold the underwear that is a huge red flag that she 8s cheating and it is the same behavior ky 1st wife showed when she was having an affair. She would get mad if I walked across the room wrong. Any little thing she could find to get mad at me she would. I was walking on eggshells.

Did you remind your wife about the scrapbook?

I suggest following Bugger's plan.

lol @ "bugger"

but seriously, follow his script exactly. his post is gold

Ok I will do my best to attempt the follow the steps laid out. She has said she wants to remain in the marriage but her actions say otherwise. She has also been sticking to the story that all they did in the car is kiss/make out. I did talk about the scrapbook and all our memories not too long after d-day. She seemed to be very understanding and said I had nothing to worry about. She was fine until she started this thing with the OM. I also don't think he's going to take her, he seems like a guy who just wants in her pants. The text messages I did read were flirty, him saying he'd tap that and she would respond saying stop I'm married. Also calling her very beautiful, I could tell she enjoyed the attention.

[This message edited by barry22 at 12:39 PM, February 6th (Monday)]