SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is where you need to go by her actions. A poly for a few hundred dollars will get to bottom of this. Probably get some trickle truth started. Because a wife doesn't ask for separation until after she's already had a ride. The reason for it , is to test drive an out in the open relationship.

You have to know what you're forgiving before you actually forgive. Don't go by tears or swearing on anyone. The amount of threads on this site that included the wayward swearing on their mother or even kids is mind blowing.

After rereading Bigger 's post, I advise that you follow it to the letter.

Bugger????

I guess I have been called worse…

Follow Bigger's post!!! In fact, it should be the auto-reply whenever anyone has "wife" "affair" and "co-worker" in the title.

I feel your pain, friend. My story is similar to yours. I didn't find this place for the first 3 months. Somehow my WW and I have muddled through, but it would have been 1000x easier if I had gotten and followed that advice. Not to mention, I would have a little more self-respect.

Do what the man says. His advice is solid gold.

Barry strength and support to you, you are in a messy and highly emotional situation and we here all care about you.

It hurts me to read what you, like many others here, are going through and have to endure.

I have no doubt that you want to save your marriage, should that at all be possible, and I feel and understand your pain.

At the same time, I also can understand if you are very angry at your wife and/or do not know what to do and just would want to throw her out of the house.

SI is a good place for support and comfort, and you are not alone, please know that. And all here give advice with the best intentions.

It is my sincere belief now that WW's/WH's are under a spell (hormones, etc.), do not think clearly, and only or mostly think about themselves and their "drug" which is OW/OM.

Saying to a WW/WH in that condition "It is either him or me" then you can easily end up with...nothing. Another member also said that very recently in this thread:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=599455

Should you want to R with a WW/WH at all, then it indeed is very important to gain back control and master the situation, and for that the Shock and Awe - technique regularly is recommended here on SI. Unfortunately, the rationale and "proof" for its effectiveness I yet have to read about (old posts anyone?).

I now - and all those who have thoughts please reply in that thread and not the current one - only want to contribute a middle road that you might want to check out:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=599293

Whatever you do, think wisely, and it is a sh*tty situation, we all went through it and we all understand you, take care brother.

What shock and awe?

If you are referring to my suggestion that the BH refuses to partake in infidelity and allowing the WW to control his future, then I think you are misunderstanding my suggestion. It’s not a “him or me” threat – it’s simply reacting to the real situation with reality. His wife wants to have an affair. She has chosen her lover. He simply tells her she’s free to do so but not as his wife. It’s her call if she wants to focus on the marriage but irrespective of what she does HE is moving on out of infidelity.

No threats, not him-or-me, no ultimatums… Just fact and reality.

Success stories? Well… define success…

I don’t define it as saved marriages but rather as people that got out of infidelity and are content there. With or without their spouses. But even if we limit it to those that got out of infidelity with their spouses then I could rattle off a few:

We have Wifehad5 (a moderator here) and his wife (a respected contributor). We have Walloped. We have desertmirage. We have 1985. Those are just a few that I can rattle off from the top of my head.

I don't want my marriage to end, it's something I fear at the moment. It really hurts to know that if I agreed to the separation, she would be having a full blown affair with this coworker. She has said she wants to see a counselor to figure out why she's behaving like this and why she's doing what she is. She has admitted she is still talking to him... she said she will feel bad if she just shuts him out like this and has told me he's very hurt, how am I supposed to be okay with that. We are discussing her quitting now, she doesn't want to because she likes the job, but understands that it has to happen. I can't sit and wait around waiting for her to go no contact. I suspect they have exchanged I love you's.

[This message edited by barry22 at 6:40 PM, February 6th (Monday)]

You need to call her bluff. She is not being real with you. Real is fully admitting what she did, meaning fell in love with this loser. No real man sleeps with a married woman. That's what teen age boys do.

Are you still in love with her? If so why? She's a liar and a cheater. You were in love with someone else. Someone who would NEVER do this to you. This is now this guy's girlfriend/lover. Would you let yourself fall in love with someone other guy's F-buddy? I am hoping you have higher standards.

The marriage is over. You might, MIGHT, be able to start over with her once she's done months of individual therapy. She knows right now full well why she did what she did. She fell for this guy. Her body and lust for him overrode her higher brain functioning, so instead of protecting you from this trauma she chose her own needs over yours. That is an unsafe partner.

You both have lots of work to do. Your job is to stop begging her for anything. You no longer need to monitor her. You had every right to. Spouses have a right to privacy, but not to secretly having sex with other's outside the vows they took in front of all your friends and family.

Offer to pack her stuff and let her move out. Tell her YOU need a trial separation. Follow all the advice you are being given here. You deserve far better than what this woman is offering you. You are not plan B. You deserve to be with someone who is capable of committing to you the way you are to them. Plain and simple. It's what all healthy people want. Romantic love. Not screwbuddies and spouses that are kept in the dark.

She's a cake eater. She wants you and affair dude. NONE of this is okay and major red flag of severe brokenness. If she is in love with him, LET HER GO.

Do the 180 and keep coming back here for more advice.

None of us really have wanted our M to end, but you have to be willing to lose your M to save it...meaning that you have to let them know that you are not willing to live with infidelity in your life and they have a choice to join you or stay in the infidelity, but that you are moving on with or without them.

Your wife is still in contact with the OM, so the A is still ongoing no matter what she says or what you believe.

If you are not willing to force the issue of NC and leaving the job then you are telling her that you are not serious and she can walk all over you.

What's your next move?

Barry

Your wife is showing clear signs that she too wants the marriage.

One of the problems with infidelity is we don’t know how to react. Imagine that instead of infidelity you discovered your wife had a drinking issue. Imagine that she acknowledges that she’s drinking too much and that it causes issues. When you explain how her drinking is putting the kids at risk, people avoid her, she’s hung-over most days… she tells you she wants to quit.

So, she quits. But her addiction keeps calling…

She might lay off the strong stuff but have an occasional glass of wine. Even if she doesn’t then she’s always looking at that bottle of vodka. Once day she might open it just to sniff, then to take one sip. Before you know she’s drinking.

That’s what you are dealing with now.

You wife seems to realize she’s doing wrong and risking her family. She wants to be sober – she wants to be in the marriage.

But by being around OM, in contact with OM… That’s the same as being around alcohol. Just talking to OM at lunch is the same as a sip of beer. Not drunk per se but still alcohol. And then one day at a job party, or when they pass in the corridor or whatever… she takes a sniff and a small sip. Then wham!

Therefore, NC is needed. That’s removing the alcohol from your wife. Removing direct access to OM and constant temptation.

You need accountability so YOU feel safe – just like you might have a newly-quit alcoholic do a breathalyzer.

I say stick to my script.

You can tone it a bit down but still insist that YOU are moving out of infidelity with or without her.

Affairs are addictive. Addictions need to be treated as such and NC is a must. You must have FULL transparence. You must KNOW that she has NC. Its' HER job to make sure you KNOW. You have the right to not wonder. Let her design her own program. All passwords given to you. All old emails accounts deleted and new ones set up. His number blocked on any phone she has. Etc.

Addicts are soothing inner pain. She needs help confronting this pain so she will no longer try to numb it. You can be her platonic friend through this. Just not her lover/boyfriend and certainly not her husband. If she heals in earnest, there will be plenty of time for that later.

Addicts fail because they do not get to the root of the problem. There will always be temptations, but when your value system is solid you can resist because you are drawn to pleasures that are more rewarding. This is why most of us don't get drunk every day or have affairs.

Like I said she has said she wants the marriage, but I don't know what to think if she's still communicating with the OM. It seems as if she cares for him more than what she's letting on, I'm suspecting that she may think she's in love with him. More info about this guy, he has like four kids from two different women and it seems to me that he is a player type and he's charming my wife. I'm afraid too file, but if this continues that is probably going to happen. I'm 41 my wife is 42 and the co-worker is 45. We are still in infidelity because the affair is still going on. It's killing me that she's dragging her feet on ending their communication. I've been trying to act normal in front of our kids but I think I've been visibly upset. I just can't go up and say that your mom is cheating on me with her co-worker, she would most likely blow up.

[This message edited by barry22 at 7:10 PM, February 6th (Monday)]

I'm sorry, barry22. That is completely screwed and I know how badly it hurts to be betrayed. I'm so sorry you had to hear that awful recording. Please take care of yourself, that is too much for anyone to hear.

Listen to what the others have said. They know.

As long as they're still in contact, the affair is on. If they're getting busy in her car days after dday, that tells me she's putting her OM ahead of you and the kids. BTW what you describe hearing in the VAR doesn't sound like they're having sex, it was her performing oral.

Once again the similarities to ManualGTR's thread is eerie. In that thread, she didn't want to stop talking to OM because she said it would be wrong to ghost him. Of course it's ok to destroy your husband. Your wife, just like his, took the affair to the next level AFTER Dday. But to be honest, I'd bet my next paycheck, that they've been sexual since she ask for the separation.

Her refusal to cut contact and her desire to continue to work there is all about keeping plan A in play. More than likely, OM is not looking to get with a cheating woman with another man's kids.

He's just looking for some fun but he'll future fake her and she'll believe it, even when the evidence shows he's not a good man. She'll make excuses for ALL of his short comings while she's exaggerating all of yours as deal breakers.

You must expose to her family and friends. I would also have her served at work. You can stop the process if she commits to you. You must burst the affair bubble that she's in.

[This message edited by Jsmart at 8:34 PM, February 6th (Monday)]

Barry - We veterans try to offer advice as to how the newly betrayed guy can best ease this shitstorm called infidelity. There are a lot of things that go into it - but I think the common thread you'll see is the need to find the inner strength to tackle the issue head on. The longer you act weak and indecisive (the pick-me dance is just one example) the longer you stay on the infidelity roller coaster.

We don't say it without recognizing how difficult it is. We've all been there. We've all felt the anguish of dealing with betrayal and, believe me, we don't minimize that even for one moment. And - we recognize that you're not going to turn on a dime and begin implementing every recommendation just two days after your initial posting.

With that in mind I want to be somewhat bolder and perhaps allow you to understand what is at stake. Because it's not just your marriage. As Bigger correctly points out (as he often does), there are FAR worse things than losing your marriage. I know - you don't think so right now. But continue to live in this limbo for a few more weeks or months and you'll find yourself in a hell that's tough to describe.

I want to show you another side that you may not recognize yet - and that is what happens when you continue to be fearful of establishing consequences: YOU WILL NEVER FORGET THE WAY YOU HANDLE THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. If you continue to wait for her to make a decision, if you continue to be unable to do as Bigger suggests and let her know that 3 in the marriage will not continue for another minute, if you can't stand up for yourself and move yourself out of infidelity... you will never forgive YOURSELF.

No matter what happens with your wife - divorce or reconciliation - 5, 10, 20 years down the road you will remember what happened and you will remember your reaction. I promise you, you will look yourself in the mirror and curse yourself for letting her dictate YOUR life story. You will wish to high heaven that you had put your foot down and stood up for yourself. You will always regret allowing yourself to be PLAN B in your own marriage. You will hate yourself for not having more self respect for YOU.

Please - take a look at the recommendations that have been made here. I can sense very clearly that you are totally devoted to your wife and you are incredibly afraid of losing her. However, maturity dictates that the old adage, "If you love something, set it free..." holds very true as it pertains to infidelity. Yes, it IS possible that she will leave you. But it is also possible that she will pull her head out of her ass and come to the recognition about what is at stake.

What that quote DOESN'T reflect is the other important truth - that in "setting her free" it also sets YOU free. It gets you out of limbo by allowing her to make a decision - thereby ending your pain. Yes, if she leaves it hurts. But it will hurt far worse, and for far longer, if you stay where you are now.

I know it's hard. But sit her down and let her know that you're moving out of infidelity. Unless she is 100% in the marriage and willing to do anything necessary to save it (and help you heal), then you will take that as her wishing to end the marriage. It's really quite simple if you think about it. YOU move out of infidelity.

It's emotionally traumatic and I know you don't want to go there. But please know that the veterans who post here have a LOT of cumulative wisdom - and we know how best to end that pain.

Strength, brother.

[This message edited by LifeisCrazy at 8:47 PM, February 6th (Monday)]

Barry, your fear of losing the marriage is enabling her to cake eat by talking you into not taking action while she continues contact.

YOU ARE ENABLING THIS SITUATION.

As Bigger has said on multiple occasions, the only thing worse than losing your wife is sharing her. You still do not believe that yet.

Why?

Bigger's alochol analogy is spot on.

Now think back to his script. Your wife is still communicating with the OM and hasn't quit her job. so you take that script and amend it a bit. You say:

I'm sorry, but I am moving forward out of infidelity. I told you I want this marriage and you as my wife, but I will not share you. It seems you have chosen not to commit to this marriage and instead have chosen your relationship with OM instead of with me. While that makes me sad as I really wanted this marriage to work, at least I know my way forward. I will proceed with terminating this marriage. All communication should be through our respective attorneys....

Do not, I repeat, do not fence sit.

It really hurts to know that if I agreed to the separation, she would be having a full blown affair with this coworker.

I hate to burst your bubble, but this is already a full blown affair. Your wife has a boyfriend, and as you have already heard, she is accommodating him.

She has admitted she is still talking to him... she said she will feel bad if she just shuts him out like this and has told me he's very hurt, how am I supposed to be okay with that.

Your not supposed to be OK with that. Your wife is telling you to your face she is more concerned with her boyfriends feelings than yours.

Like I said she has said she wants the marriage, but I don't know what to think if she's still communicating with the OM.

Seriously? If she is still in contact with the OM, then she is lying to you. She is telling you what you want to hear so you will back off, and she can ramp up with her boyfriend. And you seem to be falling for it.

I just can't go up and say that your mom is cheating on me with her co-worker, she would most likely blow up.

Yes you can. You can expose her to your kids in an age appropriate way so they know what's going on. You say she would blow up? SO WHAT?? Let her blow up. She should be exposed to everyone you both know and are related to. Let her deal with her shitty life decision.

You need to stop being afraid and face your wife's affair head on. Expose her far and wide and file for divorce. Show her you are not going to put up with her disrespect for you, your marriage, and you children. Set her free to date her boyfriend, don't be afraid, move on and get yourself free of your cheating, ungrateful wife. You and your kids will be happier for it.

so the general consensus is that I have been very weak in my approach and I do agree. I'm sad more than anything and it's effecting how I'm behaving. My wife is sleeping in another room (I told her too). I just refuse to buy that she doesn't have feelings for me anymore, after all she's done for me this past year. I hope she comes to her senses but I can't wait forever. Tomorrow morning I am going to enforce my boundaries very firmly. We simply can't go forward if she won't end communication with the other guy. If she refuses tomorrow, I will be devastated but atleast I'll be out of this infidelity...

You're trying to play nice with your cheating wife. In the thousands of threads I have been involved in or read I have never seen it work. Either you find the strength to lead your family or you are only going to suffer more and still lose your wife. Your only chance is to get her to quit and go no contact.

See a lawyer now and let her know time is running out and running out fast. Personally, I would tell her if she went back to work I would take off work to get a lawyer and file.

so you waffled on no contact because your wifes's boyfriend will be upset and hurt?

really?

read that again,,,