SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Or, the only way to really know if she won’t kill AH is if AH hands her a loaded gun

After what she has done, why would he consider reconciliation?????

Yes, he has been married to her for a long period of time and humans just don’t go from love to indifference by throwing a switch. Yes, he is and will continue to hurt. But the sooner he detaches, actually Puts distance between him and her, AND goes NC, the quicker he will heal and be able to move on with his life like any other healthy adult.

Limbo sucks!!!

We all have the benefit of hindsight. AH does not. And he's going thru the same stages we did before making his path clear. I probably went back and forth 25 times before I obtained a D. He just needs time.

AHGuy

You have been given so much good advice, I don't feel I need to add much more other than maybe this observation.

You seem like you're a very good, steady man who takes pride in helping, protecting and caring for others. These are very admirable things that I wouldn't want you to get jaded about or lose.

My worry is that you fear letting people down, but you do it at your own expense. You're under tremendous pressure right now from the people in your real world life to slow down, despite being pretty darn sure you were D. Not to mention that other posters are giving you info about R.

Remember, at the end of the day, the person who will be the most effected by your choices is you. Please do not make this decision or slow down based on "doing the right thing " or trying to protect others. Please do this ONLY because you are sure in your heart that you can live with yourself and those choices. They are big ones.

This virtuous behaviour has served you in the past but right now could stand to be your biggest downfall in the most important relationship of all (other than God) - the relationship you have with yourself for the rest of your life.

Your wife is a very skilled talker. That's the nature of her job/career. How she makes her money. Really consider how her words match her actions. It's her actions that will expose her

Well, AH, we're now about 73 pages into a thread about whether you're going to stay with your cheating wife or not.

She's a cheater and a manipulator and abuser who dealt you a really shitty hand.

About 6 years ago, she checked out of the marriage and decided in her heart to covet material things and Mammon and other men and a different life. What you were giving her wasn't enough. It would be more than enough for many, many good women in the world, but it wasn't enough for this one.

She hit midlife, started to get bored, started to think maybe her sexual appeal was only going to last so much longer, maybe her perimenopausal "final hurrah" hormonal cocktail kicked in -- and she decided to put out the signals for other men to come sniffing around.

She started hanging out with "the girls" who would support her desire for a wonderful moment of female grrrl power. She got a tat! A special one that she says now reminds her of when she allowed her mind and heart to dive into darkness.

Eventually a man did come sniffing. Or probably several did. But for sure, we know about this one. And, boy, he was a catch (or so she thought). He was everything she wanted. He could provide her with the luxe lifestyle she felt entitled to. Screw your stupid Canada vacations! They got hot and heavy and did it for many days for at least 700 days of an extended torrid, dirty, vile adulterous affair.

Day after day. Decision after decision. Lie after lie after lie. Sexual encounter after sexual encounter.

All while you're working away, the loyal husband, maybe not perfect, but the cornerstone, the rock, the solid guy. She took it for granted. She held you in contempt. She thought it was funny that you were such a working stiff and so guileless, so clueless. She posed for him. She did things for him. She even went out of her way to set up a little cuckold theater for him at your expense. She planned on how and when to dump you.

She did all of that and more.

And now?

Well, now, she wants to take it all back. She wants to give Jesus the wheel again and acknowledge that Scripture has no asterisks. Or something. She wants you to spend more time looking for solutions and less time looking out for your own mental health and sanity. She wants you to think about what all those old kindly church folks have to say. "Talk to mypastor! Don't give up on us! I've loved you forever and always!"

Etc. Etc. Etc.

She can't take it back.There's no time machine. So as much as this feels like an unreal nightmare, it's not. It's real life. It's now. And it's what you have to deal with.

It's true there's no rush for you to decide, in spite of what some might be telling you. And it's equally true that there's nothing wrong with just moving forward quickly now if you feel you have a reasonable amount of clarity (you don't have to feel 100 percent sure down in the marrow of your bones to have clarity by the way).

You shouldn't feel guilty about wanting to detach and divorce from her. You shouldn't feel guilty about loving her (or to be more precise, loving the woman you had in your mind rather than the actual one in front of you now). You shouldn't feel guilty about any of it. Because you didn't do any of this. She did.

This thread has grown pretty repetitive. We have a pretty good grasp of what's going on here. But you're the one sitting in the mud, day after day. I will say there are some people who have pressed you on a few things that you haven't done and you seem to be avoiding (like really getting the whole story, polygraph, all that good stuff). Reconciling while ignoring all of those things is not reconciling. I can tell you that from personal experience. Take it to the bank.

If you file for D, or a legal separation that is clearly spelled out, and she agrees to move out to give you some damn peace (remember Proverbs 21:9, read it several times to let it sink in) I and many others think you will get much more clarity. You'll know very quickly whether she's really remorseful. If she is, you might have something to work with there.

Divorce takes awhile, as I'm finding out for myself right now. There's plenty of time to call it off. But what it will do is "stress test" her reactions and give you a very good idea of whether this woman has any actual remorse in her.

So far, I ain't seeing it. I'm seeing a lot of desperation and guilt and regret and panic. But not REMORSE. And that makes sense because frankly you're dealing with a woman who by her very actions has demonstrated over a VERY LONG period of time that she lacks empathy and has a low emotional intelligence.

The only way to reconcile is with REAL REMORSE, not with regret. Regret is the embittered Gollum sitting in the shadows blaming others for how it ended up down in the deep dark cave.

You decide. We can only offer our own advice filtered through our own life experiences, daily realities and finite headspace.

There is only now. Not the past. No time machine available. No way to know the future.

You stand at the Y in the crossroads in a lonely wood. You can keep standing there. And eventually that will grow quite old, and a bunch of monkeys will show up in the trees around that Y in the crossroads and start gibbering loudly, and you'll grow tired of the waiting to decide and you will decide which path to take.

I wish and pray for the very best for you, brother. You deserve it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:06 PM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

Might give you some clarity if you write down why you would even consider staying with her . My sense is you still place alot of value on her feelings and you still feel her pain as your pain

We all know whats in it for her but whats in it for you ? Can you make a compelling argument to stay just for you ?

I agree with the other poster who said cheating is not just emotional but also sexual abuse adjacent. Nearly noone is worthy of a second chance, no matter how much they cry when you find out

Here is the thing though , dont rush the D timing , limbo is short term pain regret is long term pain . Most people look back and regret they took so long but some people probably look back and regret their alacrity too .

[This message edited by siracha at 3:17 PM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

AH,

I’m sorry if you stated this already.

I know that you have said many times that you are going to divorce the cheater. But has she been served yet? If not, when is that going to happen?

Good luck and stay strong.

I have never seen so many New Member posts in one thread on here ever. That I can remember.

Like, created new account and then post here and towards the end of your other thread and that's it, post nowhere else.

How many members that church got that your wife goes to....

Even if the marriage ends in D, she's made corrections to the mindset which allowed her to cheat. Is it perfect?... no. It's 6-7 weeks out from DDay. There's still a lot of work to do, and part of that work is examining her own character, her lack of boundaries, and her real core values. She's still handing that off to Jesus at this point but she's going to need to dig deeper.

CT, I respect your opinion but I have to disagree with "she's made corrections to the mindset which allowed her to cheat".

How do you know this? Because of an email that she recently sent to AH?

As I and others have pointed out anything she says is just words (especially this soon after the affair being exposed and at least TWO YEARS of lying).

The ONLY way to determine if she's truly made "corrections to the mindset" is to watch her actions (not words) over a length of time (at minimum two years).

That's my statement in context, Booyah. So no... I don't think she's finished working yet, but based on her email, she's made very significant progress.

It's a much easier equation, as well as SI SOP, to watch the actions and ignore the words. But in the early days, as you say, that takes TIME. No one wants to live in limbo for two years making this decision, so most people will choose an option, R or D, and see how it goes. I know that in R, I was still secretly on the fence to some degree for a very long time. Through actions, I was as good as my word in trying for R, but underneath it all, yeah.. I was watching. I think that's fairly typical. Our doubts don't quiet overnight. But I don't think it's a reasonable option for AHGuy to wait two years in limbo without choosing a course.

I have never done this before, but I think I know where you are coming from as I’ve been where you are. My guess is that you’re flailing around for a plan for the next few months or year.

Right now, you feel a horrible depression and a lot of pressure to make a decision. The issue is that you might not be in a mental place where you feel comfortable making a life altering decision. There are a lot of things clawing at your mind right now. You feel betrayed (duh), you feel emasculated (who wouldn’t), you feel scared (it’s natural, but hard to admit), you feel like you want to run back to what’s safe, but what would normally be safe isn’t safe anymore. You want to make the ‘right’ decision but you don’t know what that decision is now.

That’s OK. It’s natural. We’ve all been there.

If you’re like me, then you’re looking at statistics, stories and some other clear blueprint to determine a course forward. There’s the kneejerk reaction – she cheats then you leave. That’s what society expects. It’s what you ‘should’ do, and so that feels natural and you’re pulled there. On the other hand, you still feel that love for her that you have just found out isn’t nearly as deep on her end as you thought it was for the last several years.

What to do?

It’s OK to say to yourself that you’re not ready to make a final decision on the relationship right now. You may be prepared to make a decision on the marriage contract, but that depends on what is in your best interest.

You have the permission to be selfish now.

Seriously, you have that permission. Everyone gives it to you. You should give it to you too.

So, here’s the plan that I spent a long time dreaming up. I tried it. It didn’t work. Maybe it works for you:

Part 1: Getting to Zero – In return for giving a year of contemplative thought about whether or not you want to keep the marriage going, you would need the following things:

1.) Secure your finances and your business in a way that is advantageous to you. It might be the last thing on your mind, but it will be the thing you kick yourself for later if you don’t take proactive steps now. This could be through a separation agreement, a postnuptial agreement or some other legal maneuver that protects what YOU have built in a way that allows it to continue. You could also do a binding property settlement and push the decree date out after its filed if this is OK in your jurisdiction. This must be iron clad to the greatest extent possible. It should also give HER what SHE has built. Think of it as a method to see if there is love for you, or love for what she has with you. There’s a difference. Take out the distraction. You could also do the divorce and the attempt at dating again if this is the only method of doing it.

2.) Request a polygraph, and tell her that her performance on it will help you determine if you want to give this a second chance. You can say that you want the entire truth before you determine if there is a chance that you will give her another shot down the line. I am a lawyer by trade. I’ve used polygraphs in the past. The real value in them is the threat of them. Give it some time before you request it, as you will only need it if you try to reconcile. Tell her to give you the whole truth now; everything in writing. Tell her that you will back it up with a polygraph test in the future. Realistically, most people get the truth leading up to this test; the threat of it is enough to dislodge truth. This is one of the tenants of my plan where my WW failed. She didn’t want to take it. I knew then I would never know the truth. In your case, she might jump at it. You can tell her that no matter what the truth is, and so long as she gives you the property settlement in an iron clad way, that you will give her the year. You need to truth now to know what you want to do.

3.) Tell your WW that after these things you will need some extended time away from her to determine what you want to do. This could involve alternative living arrangements for you. A change of scenery. A longer time away. Whatever it is. You will need perspective and you can’t get that living in the life you have right now.

Then, give her a year. Take your time with the decision. You assure her that you will not sleep with other people or form other romantic relationships. You assure her that what you will do, in return for these things, is that you will give her a year to contemplate what you want to do. A year for her to make herself attractive enough to remain your wife or become your wife again. Now, you may find that this is a dealbreaker for you, and that’s ok. Be sure to tell her that too. It might not be a dealbreaker for you either, and that’s OK too.

So long as you are taking care of your finances, and so long as you can get honesty from her – complete honesty – there is no problem taking some time to contemplate whether or not this is a dealbreaker to you. Heck, one of the commenters on here took years. I took a year. And others have taken years to determine that it just wasn’t working. Others have taken years to find out that it’s working.

At worst, you can end the marriage with knowledge that you tried as hard as you could. And that’s a good thing to look back on. At least, it normally will let cooler heads prevail and that is best for the kids. Maybe the marriage doesn’t last, but you never get to stop being mom and dad to your kids. Ending the marriage after trying will, hopefully, improve how you treat one another over the long haul. And, if you secure the finances up front there’s hopefully not going to be some messy asset fight down the line. Talk it over with your lawyer and see if it works. Think it over and see if it works for you.

The plan that I had above, like I said, fell apart when I learned that there was continued contact with the last AP and she refused to take a polygraph test. Those should have been the two easiest things. Her actions took out a part of my plan and unfortunately I wasn’t able to cling to it any longer so I had to end it. Giving it that year also let me see who she really was, and I’m fine with that – different people have different values. I wish it worked out the other way a lot of the time, but I had a plan, and I stuck to it. I’m a fan of second chances, but not thirds.

On the flip side, we are better coparents because we took that year trying. There’s not much of a downside to it, other than lost time. And you may want that time to make a decision.

Again, this is just a shot in the dark based on what I did. But, you might want a plan like this as a draft to give yourself a template of actions to follow while you get better.

If you’re inclined to try it, or even mull it over, see what you want to add to it or subtract from it.

And, you might really want the divorce too. The question is if it’s what you really want, or if you’re doing it because that’s what you think someone in your situation should do. Were I a lawyer to someone in my position, my professional advice would have been: “Dude, what the heck are you thinking? Get out now before she gives you herpes.” Being in this position before though, I didn’t take that advice. I tried. I’m proud I tried. I’m OK with it ending, because I tried. She just didn’t love me, she loved our life together… and that’s not me. You may have different results.

For those who dismiss the email and say that it is all just words and you need to see action I'd really like to know what action would be enough?

Wrong question. The real question is whether AHguy can accept a continued life with a woman who has betrayed him this abhorrent fashion.

She could have "gotten it" immediately. She could have made all of the right moves once she was busted.

There is no action that is enough. No way to balance the scales.

To say she can "do enough" is to say she has control over what AHguy, feels or chooses.

"I did enough, now you should be good to go."

She has no control over AHguy going forth, the same way there wa no way for AHguy to stop his wife from fucking another man behind his back.

Whatever she does, she should do to give him a choice, and to show him with the respect she denied him.

I don't see that in her email. What I see is "another angle". Blameshifting didn't work, church and family pressure didn't work, using family assets as bargaining chips didn't work. Now she is on her 4th or 5th angle, but still somehow making him responsible for the likely dissolution of their family.

***

So AHguy, this is what you need to answer for yourself. WHATEVER your wife does to "make up" for her actions... Can you eventually accept sharing your life with her, trusting her, living with the triggers like on the boat, rekindling a physical relationship with her after she gave everything to another man who she planned to run off with?

This is WHY I and many other keep imploring you to seek out the truth through whatever means, spying, polygraph etc.

Because if you do want to reconcile, you have be sure you can accept this woman who with all knowledge and planning, perpetrated this injury to you and your family, going forward for the foreseeable future.

Ditto to what faithfulman said. And as to the triggers - just wait until the real anger sets in with the ongoing mind movies. That's a whole new level of mindf*ck. My understanding is it gets better a lot faster in a quicker D scenario. I'm not trying to sell that as a panacea.

I'm just saying it gives you some damn space and headspace and freedom to get away from a harridan who perpetrated on you what is acknowledged as one of the most vile, toxic, hateful, evil and most abusive things one human can do to another human in almost every single civilization on this entire planet for thousands of years.

this is exactly how I feel, I'm needing her love and attention I do want her to want me and to show it, I can't hide that I liked it when she told my parents and kids that she wanted me but the only thing I can add is that at times I resent myself for wanting to believe her. I can't do it, can't just ignore all what she did and believe her, my heart still wants her and for whatever stupid reason it pains me when I think about letting her go to be with someone else, I know I'm selfish , I want to let her go but at the same time I'm resenting the thought of her being with someone else.

You're still emotionally enmeshed, and that's natural at this point. You've been with her since you were kids. I remember feeling the same sort of thing, that I just couldn't go on with my WH after what he'd done... but also that I wouldn't be able to stand him taking up with the OW. This is just part and parcel of the indecision we feel when we're confronted with such a traumatic, life-changing event. There's no right or wrong answer.

That said, you are up against a bit of a deadline in terms of filing on grounds. If you are CERTAIN that you won't need that tool, then yeah... take all the time you need. If, for example, you were to hammer out an agreement on division of assets and liabilities, you could then afford to sit and wait, watching her actions and seeing how you feel. I know there are problems getting that done and keeping the business intact, but if there are any workarounds, getting an agreement, having it notarized and filed with your attorney would give you time to explore your feelings on R. If you wait too much longer, condonation is going to catch up with you.

Ah Guy - her message was just words. Keep moving forward on your path, this stuff takes time, especially in the land of Covid.... But try to stop communicating w/ her. Her message was still ALL ABOUT HER.... That isn't remorse. That's regret, shame and guilt.

Try to detach, and 180 as much as possible. It will help you gain some clarity, and for gods sake don't sleep w/ her. That just gets hormones involved, and those confuse everything.

Step back. Watch her actions. Start making changes. You are fortunate that you are in an industry that you will always have options, and may even be able to make more money being employed by someone else in your twilight years of your career. If she gets serious and makes real change, then you can reconsider. But she still isn't worth the effort and gift that R is.

If, for example, you were to hammer out an agreement on division of assets and liabilities, you could then afford to sit and wait, watching her actions and seeing how you feel. I know there are problems getting that done and keeping the business intact, but if there are any workarounds, getting an agreement, having it notarized and filed with your attorney would give you time to explore your feelings on R. If you wait too much longer, condonation is going to catch up with you.

Good advice. Get some sort of agreement in writing and notarized to protect yourself going forward.

You have been in this shit storm for only 2 months. There is lots of time to make a decision in regards to R or D. However CT is right, protect yourself sooner rather than later.

She might be remorseful. Or she might not be. She might be regretful because now everyone knows and oh shit that was never supposed to happen. She might be hoovering (sucking you back in) because the other life imploded and now she wants this one back.

If remorse isn't real it will slowly diminish and then expire. It will be hard to maintain. It takes a long time to determine if it's real. It takes actions, actions, actions as well as the words.

Even if the remorse turns out to be real doesn't mean you must R. R is a very valuable gift. It doesn't have to be given. The long term adultery may be a definite deal breaker. It is for many.

Still, it's your decision. I suggest you carry on with the plans to file and serve and continue on the divorce path. Even when my divorce was signed by the judge there was a 30 day "cooling off" period. Like 2 years past filing until the judges signature wasn't enough.

Thanks Hellfire. That is a list and is some things for AHG to answer if he wants. I don't think we know about any of those things from what he's posted so far so hard to say if she has done much beyond the email, the offer to quit and reading some books.

AHG has been pretty clear to date saying he wants to D which is his right and really nobody can tell him he is not justified so all of this speculation about regret/remorse may be moot. I just thought it important to say to him things that could demonstrate remorse rather than just dismissing everything that does not.

AH

You are setting yourself up misery no matter what you choose because whether you R or D, at present you have no fucking idea if you are doing it with all the truth . You respond to people but ignore everyone of the comments from multiple people on both sides of the fence that you need a polygraph and why hasn’t she offered it ?

Do you want to R with her and find out years later there are multiple men in the six years since her attitude , appearance , and behavior changed in a manner that would attract more

Men and more opportunity .

Conversely do you want to divorce her if you choose that and wonder whether you jumped the gun ?

There are only two ways to answer either question . No more info is likely coming from OBS on the past . Either you ask your wife some pointed questions which you have not indicated you have done and believe her , which would

Be foolish and naive at this time. Or

You do what person after person heee has told you and ask her to take a polygraph test without any commitments from you. If anything she has written has any meaning she should be knocking you over getting to the examiner .

You are about to make a major decision in your life without even bothering to turn over all the rocks . The question is why???

Are you afraid to learn the entire truth . It may help

You either way .

Notice I made

No comment on whether my opinion is R or D. I think most here would say either is ok but for heavens sake get the truth

BeyondRage

You are setting yourself up misery no matter what you choose because whether you R or D, at present you have no fucking idea if you are doing it with all the truth . You respond to people but ignore everyone of the comments from multiple people on both sides of the fence that you need a polygraph

Do you want to R with her and find out years later there are multiple men in the six years since her attitude , appearance , and behavior changed

Conversely do you want to divorce her if you choose that and wonder whether you jumped the gun ?

Do what person after person here has told you and ask her to take a polygraph test without any commitments from you. If anything she has written has any meaning she should be knocking you over getting to the examiner .

You are about to make a major decision in your life without even bothering to turn over all the rocks . The question is why???

Are you afraid to learn the entire truth . It may help

You either way .

Agree strongly with above

I did mention in my last post you seem to want to move away from a problem quickly I.M.O. without giving something so life changing enough time, but combined with inadequate information which there must be hence your last post seemed to still have you not totally committed to D

Don't be badgered into a fast decision

[This message edited by UnderCover at 9:20 PM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

Buster123

Tell her all these questions plus the ones you might add will be subject to a polygraph

Questions with "If" can't be subjected to polygraph.

Questions with "If" can't be subjected to polygraph.

But they WSs typically don't know that, that's why he should be asking as many questions as possible before the poly, cheaters won't know which ones would come up in the test, plus he could work with the poly examiner to adjust the questions as needed.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 12:56 AM, August 26th (Wednesday)]

You respond to people but ignore everyone of the comments from multiple people on both sides of the fence that you need a polygraph

Do you want to R with her and find out years later there are multiple men in the six years since her attitude , appearance , and behavior changed

THIS