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Newest Member: Betrayedandhurting

Wayward Side :
So many questions

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ASoCalledLife ( member #59641) posted at 2:39 AM on Monday, November 20th, 2017

CSCE! We've had a terrible day - and your post was like a salve. It literally made me get teary eyed for a moment. Such a courageous move for your H, and I'm extremely happy for you too! Wherever this goes, I see it as a positive.

Please keep us posted. And enjoy that movie! What are you two going to watch? (Or if you already went, what did you watch?)

[This message edited by ASoCalledLife at 8:40 PM, November 19th (Sunday)]

Thankfully, hubby and I are in R. Joined SI in 2017 and left this site per DH’s request in mid-May 2018; be blessed everyone!
-Mrs. Life

posts: 392   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2017
id 8028210
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 CantSleepCantEat (original poster member #59577) posted at 2:55 AM on Monday, November 20th, 2017

ASCL - We saw a screening of Guillermo del Toro's new movie - "The Shape of Water". It's absolutely gorgeous, and a beautiful (if unusual) love story. Highly recommended.

I'm so sorry to hear today was tough for you - hang in there. I know how difficult those days can be.

"All good is hard, all evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy."

Me: WW, 32
BH: 32
A: 6/2016 - 6/2017
AP: COW, MM
Married 3 years, together 13
DDay: 6/30/17

posts: 279   ·   registered: Jul. 9th, 2017   ·   location: CA
id 8028225
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c24j ( member #42352) posted at 7:40 AM on Monday, November 20th, 2017

Awesome!!!

Hope the good continues!

[This message edited by c24j at 1:47 AM, November 20th (Monday)]

posts: 152   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2014   ·   location: Midwest
id 8028328
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FearfulAvoidance ( member #61384) posted at 9:11 AM on Monday, November 20th, 2017

I just wanted to say this thread has been a lifeline of sorts for me these last several days leading up to Dday1 first anniversary. It has pulled me back from my own shame many times (although not tonight, but you can't win them all). I started at the very beginning and read all the way through and yes, this entire thread needs to be required reading for all new waywards. I have read many things over the past several months that I could identify with, but nothing that I have *connected* to like this one. Nothing that has made me realize more about my own process and all things I am not only lacking, but all the things that I actually have.

So thank you, CSCE and all the other people that have made this thread what it is. Please don't stop. And know that for every person that comments that this has been helpful, know that there are likely a handful more that just haven't said anything yet. Probably because they are still making their way through 22 pages of SI gold.

Me: WW, 30s, BP2
Her: BW, 30s (Aftershockgoldfish)
Committed since 2006, married in 2013

6 month OEA (sexting & phone sex)
DDay1 went underground: Nov 18, 2016
DDay2 ended A: Mar 26, 2017
Was offered R: Oct 2017
Dday3 no more lies: Sept 8, 2019

posts: 161   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2017
id 8028341
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SorrowfulMoon ( member #59925) posted at 4:58 PM on Monday, November 20th, 2017

Fingers crossed CSCE!

Hope it went well

posts: 330   ·   registered: Jul. 31st, 2017   ·   location: England
id 8028635
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parent4 ( member #61060) posted at 6:12 PM on Monday, November 20th, 2017

Stay mindful to give him complete space to heal; don't overreach by reading too much into the slight thaw. It may set you back and harden his resolve.

Keep your chin up.

[This message edited by parent4 at 4:21 PM, November 20th (Monday)]

posts: 86   ·   registered: Oct. 15th, 2017   ·   location: new england
id 8028691
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QuietDan ( member #57276) posted at 10:09 PM on Monday, November 20th, 2017

Interesting timing regarding the relationship dynamics. It seems like a lot of this started to significantly take a turn for the present situation at about the one year point into the marriage.

...

posts: 184   ·   registered: Feb. 4th, 2017
id 8028905
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SilverLinings55 ( member #57669) posted at 2:09 PM on Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017

CSCE:

What's up? I'm interested in how things have gone since the movie and hoping for the best.

SL

posts: 425   ·   registered: Mar. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: East Coast
id 8030297
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skerzoid ( member #55962) posted at 4:04 PM on Wednesday, November 22nd, 2017

Great to hear about your latest interaction.

3 thoughts for today.

Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all. Dale Carnegie

No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible. George Chakiris

When we meet real tragedy in life, we can react in two ways - either by losing hope and falling into self-destructive habits, or by using the challenge to find our inner strength. Thanks to the teachings of Buddha, I have been able to take this second way. Dalai Lama

posts: 230   ·   registered: Nov. 8th, 2016   ·   location: Midwestern USA
id 8030437
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 CantSleepCantEat (original poster member #59577) posted at 3:44 AM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2017

Hey everyone.

I know I have so many responses to reply to, but as the number grows it gets to be a more and more daunting task!

Thank you for the recent well wishes and encouragement - it really helps.

For those that are wondering how things have been going, the answer is: About the same, but that's ok.

The only thing I've noticed that has changed since Sunday is my energy level. I needed a "day off" - I was burning out, quickly. In the days before, the increasingly desperate desire for a "time out" kept popping into my head. Obviously there are no time outs, but I expect that most people here (especially BS's) know the feeling. Not rugsweeping, and not denying - just the hope of being able to live without the crushing weight of your new reality on your shoulders for a little while, so you can catch your breath before diving back in and dealing with all the crap.

Anyway, that's what Sunday felt like. Not a "breakthrough", just a breather. But I really needed it. I don't know what prompted BH to ask - it could have been his IC appointment on Friday, or his lunch with a friend on Saturday afternoon, or as an attempt at a primer to make Thanksgiving less awkward, or simply a spur of the moment thought. I'm deliberately not reading into it, and instead am simply thankful for it. Though I hope he had a good time and will choose to invite me to things in the future, I am mindfully appreciating it for what it was and nothing more. As Parent4 wisely cautions, I don't want to push. He gets to decide what he's ready for, what he wants from me, and what walls he needs to keep up for his own emotional protection. I support him in those decisions and will do my best to act accordingly.

(BakedBrain - In regards to holiday baking: Have you seen the "hugging bear" cookies? I've got a cutter on the way and can't wait to try them!)

(Skerzoid - I really appreciate the fight song and the quotes! They help so much - Thank you!)

"All good is hard, all evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy."

Me: WW, 32
BH: 32
A: 6/2016 - 6/2017
AP: COW, MM
Married 3 years, together 13
DDay: 6/30/17

posts: 279   ·   registered: Jul. 9th, 2017   ·   location: CA
id 8031062
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parent4 ( member #61060) posted at 4:05 AM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2017

Continue to try your very best; and, I'm happy to see that the raw angst has lessened.

I read a few reviews of The Shape of Water. Intriguing.

Was there a sex scene with the alien?

[This message edited by parent4 at 10:11 PM, November 22nd (Wednesday)]

posts: 86   ·   registered: Oct. 15th, 2017   ·   location: new england
id 8031078
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 CantSleepCantEat (original poster member #59577) posted at 4:54 AM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2017

Spoiler Alert

There is implied sex. Nothing explicit (other than female nudity).

"All good is hard, all evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy."

Me: WW, 32
BH: 32
A: 6/2016 - 6/2017
AP: COW, MM
Married 3 years, together 13
DDay: 6/30/17

posts: 279   ·   registered: Jul. 9th, 2017   ·   location: CA
id 8031109
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Jorge ( member #61424) posted at 9:35 PM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2017

As I help my wife prepare for Thanksgiving dinner, I'm thinking of you and others for whom Thanksgiving isn't as gratifying due to emotional pain. I've been on SI for a week or so, have read your posts and want to add my two cents.

1) In reading your story, I feel like I'm reading a love novel. That's a beautiful thing.

2) Your strength and reslience is inspiring. You have issues, but don't we all. Only the courageous are willing to take them on. Your courage is awesome

3) God's plans don't sync with ours. Hence, his plan for you is unknown. It may be with BS or it may not be. Your experience however is setting up your next love. You will be an unbelievable wife for someone. You will be a 10. I have no question in my mind about that. None. That guy, whoever he is, is lucky.

4) Keep your boxing gloves on,stay in the ring and keep fighting. You're a champion or else you wouldn't still be here, emptying yourself. I know you're taking shots, but so what. You're still standing. Upper cuts might take you to the deck, but get up and keep fighting just like you have. Don't allow anyone to knock you out, BS included.

[This message edited by Jorge at 4:44 PM, November 23rd (Thursday)]

posts: 738   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2017   ·   location: Pennsylvania
id 8031512
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 CantSleepCantEat (original poster member #59577) posted at 6:44 AM on Friday, November 24th, 2017

A few Thanksgiving thoughts -

If you can learn to be kind to yourself at your lowest, you will have expanded your capacity for love.

If you are able to forgive yourself for the worst thing you'll (hopefully) ever do, you will become more compassionate.

If you can embrace your flaws as opportunities instead of letting them hold you back, countless possibilities open up before you.

If you move toward your future with grace and humility for the lessons of your past, you can ensure each step takes you closer to the best you can be.

----------------------

I'm so thankful for all I have.

Thankful for all the people helping me along on my journey.

Thankful for my health, and the health of those I love.

Thankful for my financial stability.

Thankful for the kindness I experience on a near-daily basis, and for the people who care about me.

Thankful for BH and his concern for me.

Thankful for all I'm learning about myself.

Thankful for my fluffy roommates.

There are so many things to be thankful for - it's amazing how struggle makes them all shine so bright. Like beacons in the night sky.

"All good is hard, all evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy."

Me: WW, 32
BH: 32
A: 6/2016 - 6/2017
AP: COW, MM
Married 3 years, together 13
DDay: 6/30/17

posts: 279   ·   registered: Jul. 9th, 2017   ·   location: CA
id 8031709
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skerzoid ( member #55962) posted at 7:58 PM on Friday, November 24th, 2017

CSCE:

Let me know when this gets old. (I am an old coach, and I believe in inspirational quotes. I would give them some every day. Consider yourself on my team. Some days I would kick them in the a$$ and some days I would pat them on the a$$ depending on what I though they needed).

Here are your daily ideas from me:

“Recovery is something that you have to work on every single day and it’s something that it doesn’t get a day off.” – Demi Lovato

“I’ve always believed that if you don’t stay moving, they will throw dirt on you.” – Paul Anka

“It’s no good pretending that any relationship has a future if your record collections disagree violently or if your favorite films wouldn’t even speak to each other if they met at a party.” – Nick Hornby

CSCE: Your opponent isn't a person, its your own self doubt. Now get out there and kick it in the a$$!

posts: 230   ·   registered: Nov. 8th, 2016   ·   location: Midwestern USA
id 8032059
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Jorge ( member #61424) posted at 11:42 PM on Friday, November 24th, 2017

CSCE

There's not much I can add that hasn't already been said. I'm a rookie compared to veteran advisers following and helping guide you to some extent. I've read your original post a few times and did so tonight again, as I'm captivated by it for a few reasons. Nearly every comment you've made of your BS sounds like you could have been describing me. And you have some similarities to my wife of 25 yeas .  So, as you can imagine, I've inserted myself into your experience seamlessly.

This post isn't to analyze your words as many have done, rightfully and expertly, so, but to MAYBE give some additional insight into your husband's thought process. Much has been covered already though, and If I'm repeating anything, my apologies, but first I want to give you something I learned yesterday evening. I'm sitting at the dinner table on Thanksgiving,  with my mom who just turned 90 two days ago, my brother and sister in-law. My mom and sister in-law are both avid readers of the bible. In fact my mom hosts bible study every Wednesday. Anyway, out of nowhere, my mom looked at me and asked, did you know that some of the most revered women in the bible were immoral? I replied, Really? I didn't know that. She went on to say, one woman (whose name escapes me) encouraged her husband to commit adultery because she couldn't bear children. Another, by the name of Sarah also did something immoral, however they eventually, as my mom put it, evolved into (Hall of Fame Women of the Bible) because of what they BECAME, not what they did immorally. Point being: Do not allow this experience to define you. Simple as that. Now, on to my points.

You're under a lot of pressure, between your work, your relationship and your dad's illness. PLEASE do not fill obligated to respond to this post. It's simply to share some insight with hopes you read something you may not have read or related to before. Unlikely, but you never know.   A few things led me to becoming captivated by your story. Your unlimited humility, your ability to transition from WW to full R compliance within a short period of time as compared to many others on SI, and as stated earlier, your BS's disposition is very similar to mine, so perhaps my insight may shed some new light. Maybe, maybe not.

1) If I'm the BS, (which I've been 3 times BTW before marriage)  thoughts that would keep me from possibly breaking through or advancing in reconciliation was the fact that the affair was discovered. Getting caught means forfeiture of  any noble intention you may have had of stopping it, which would have shed a different light on the situation. It would have provided me with some sense of your value and respect for me. With it being discovered, my assumption is it would have gone on for quite some time which would infuriate me. At this point, the realization of exactly where I stand is known and nothing can undo that reality.

2) AP was allowed to dictate and control our marriage to a degree that his hold on my wife may determine who I spend the rest of my life with.

3) I'm dealing with thoughts that your attraction to AP was so strong, you did not even make an attempt or two to end it. The "emotional" love note given to AP correlates with your actions over a year's time, so the words weren't just words. You were once mine, but he gained your heart, mind and body, and I was left with leftover's.

4) AP wasn't just a boyfriend, but a legitimate permanent partner prospect and only my physical existence stops him from replacing me. In fact, If I were in the armed forces and was stationed overseas, AP would be living here and the relationship would have advanced to you leaving me and sending a "Dear John" letter. He would sleep in my bed, watch movies with you in his arms on our couch and share a glass of wine with you on our deck at the end of the day, before retiring to bed to love again. I'm a cuckold, no other way to spin it.  My wife would prefer to be the AP's as a plan B than with me as a plan A. What does that say of me?

5) Sex. It's already been discussed so I won't belabor the point, but I'm thinking,  my wife went to great trouble to provide him love, affection and sex and I can't even get it while lying next to her.  I'm also thinking, If this guy lived near us, my wife would make her available body available to him at his beck and call. Only the logistics of distance and geography stopped this from happening, not her love and respect for me.

6) I was plan B to my wife for an entire year. On my birthday, she's with him (in thoughts) and texted him her picture on the morning of. On our anniversary, she's with him, perhaps texting him while in the ladies room during our celebratory restaurant dinner. On Christmas she's texting him and sending a picture before we even exchange gifts. When the clock struck 12am, our New Year's kiss was sandwiched with thoughts of him before and afterwards. On Valentine's day, she took great lengths to convey how he was her Valentine. On days he got sex, I got none. On our European vacation, he was with us, because WW texted him right up to DD.  She knows this would destroy me and us, but that consideration is not close to being enough of a deterrent. The AP has won. The AP is the undisputed chosen one and the only way I might get her back is if he doesn't want her.  He's probably laughing at me or even worse feeling sorry for me. Loserville!!!

7) I've placed my heart into her hands, and cannot possibly chance doing that again. This pain is like losing a family member to death.

8) He had my wife in my home. Nail in coffin. MY HOME

9) One year. That's a lot of sex, kisses, laughter and I love you's.

10) Have there been others?

Couple of other thoughts to ponder,

1) I'm very, very effective at concealing my emotional state. I'm relatively quiet, laid back and somewhat boring perhaps to some. My high's aren't too high and my low's don't reveal themselves as being too low when in fact they can go lower than anyone knows, including my very perceptive wife of 25 years. Don't underestimate the degree of pain BS is experiencing. It could be much worse than he's leading on.

2) SI is full of stories of WW/WS stopping cold turkey after DD, only to reconnect with the AP after experiencing unbearable separation anxiety. The reconnect sometimes happens in days, weeks, months or years, but the frequency never ceases to surprise me since I've been a SI member, which is only a little over a week or so. The relevance is since your husband is on SI, he's probably reading these stories and applying it to this situation. He may be waiting for the shoe to drop again, of which he is ill prepared to deal with. He's already taken the biggest blow of his life after DD-1, so you two are still somewhat within the reconnecting period of you and the AP. This might explain why he's checking up on you and suggesting you just go with the AP. BS is very pained and feeling very vulnerable and with 4 months removed from DD, he might be very paranoid, which is understandable, notwithstanding your tremendous efforts to comfort otherwise. Only time can heal his deep wounds. Not telling you anything you don't already know on his pain, but do consider how it relates to what he's reading on SI if you haven't already done so.

[This message edited by Jorge at 2:15 AM, November 25th (Saturday)]

posts: 738   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2017   ·   location: Pennsylvania
id 8032168
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c24j ( member #42352) posted at 3:29 AM on Saturday, November 25th, 2017

I know I have so many responses to reply to, but as the number grows it gets to be a more and more daunting task!

There really is no need for that, though you have been very diligent in that aspect, it's not necessary to answer all posts. Many questions are rhetorical, I think, and are meant to be more for your benefit in working through various issues. A few may be looking for answers that will help the writer come up with other ideas to aid in your situation . . . but even then, feel free to answer only those you feel are relevant and will help.

You write well, and at times it becomes almost too easy to identify with you, and consequently, we start asking or commenting on your situation, saying things that you've already asked or said to yourself a thousand times. I think it might be better to spend time where you think it helps you, your husband, and your marriage most. If some days that doesn't include SI, that's fine. This is meant to be a place of safety and support, not obligation or addiction.

You will have some more bad times probably . . . but you've had some pretty good times recently. Hang on to (and grow) those when possible. Get advice, bounce ideas, and/or support others here when it suits you, but that should be secondary. You (both) seem to be starting to revive things - That's the big challenge!! Go for it !! And don't forget to take 5 every now and then to re-group (ummm, 5 minutes or hours or other periods of time that is . . . not drinks or people or pills or cats or whatever . . . my son raised 5 cats in this house once, and that was simply too many . . . probably as difficult as trying to respond to all comments on this thread).

[This message edited by c24j at 12:16 AM, November 25th (Saturday)]

posts: 152   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2014   ·   location: Midwest
id 8032271
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parent4 ( member #61060) posted at 6:01 PM on Sunday, November 26th, 2017

Here's a hypothetical:

Suppose your H commits to try R.

Will he provide the affirmation provided by AP?

posts: 86   ·   registered: Oct. 15th, 2017   ·   location: new england
id 8032990
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 CantSleepCantEat (original poster member #59577) posted at 6:47 PM on Sunday, November 26th, 2017

Parent4 - Highly unlikely. He's not that kind of person. And, honestly? I hope not - for a couple of reasons.

1) The affirmations from AP were not real. (At least a fair portion of them.) Not only because they were based on a foundation of sand, but also because a lot of them were pure fabrications.

2) The affirmations from AP were regularly and deliberately used to manipulate me.

3) My need for external affirmation is a problem stemming from my deep-seated feelings of not being "enough". I need to work through those issues so I'm less reliant on it - if BH provided the same level of affirmation, the chances are high I'd remain stuck in the same spot I'm in now.

I will say this: At some point,

if BH decided he wanted to try R, we'd need to have a love languages conversation. We'd both have to make a commitment to try to speak each other's more than we used to, and to recognize actions outside our primary ones as still valid expressions of love.

That's still a far cry from the love-bombing I experienced with AP, but that's a good thing.

"All good is hard, all evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy."

Me: WW, 32
BH: 32
A: 6/2016 - 6/2017
AP: COW, MM
Married 3 years, together 13
DDay: 6/30/17

posts: 279   ·   registered: Jul. 9th, 2017   ·   location: CA
id 8033012
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parent4 ( member #61060) posted at 9:34 PM on Sunday, November 26th, 2017

Keep doing the work.

You're going to be one hell of a wife going forward under any scenerio, and hopefully with him.

posts: 86   ·   registered: Oct. 15th, 2017   ·   location: new england
id 8033101
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