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Hey all. Reporting back after the disclosure therapy session.

I feel weirdly ... good. I didn’t think I would feel like this. I was preparing myself for the worst; I had a friend on standby after the session in case I felt self harm-y and didn’t feel safe. But that didn’t happen. I didn’t even need my friend after the session.

It feels like a giant weight off. And I’ve been in a ... good mood? At least better than I have in a long time. I can’t believe I’m even saying that. I don’t even know the last time I was in a decent mood. Part of me is mad at myself for feeling good, because what right do I have? Disclosure doesn’t change any of the awful things he did to me. And I am well aware of the fact that he could still be lying or hiding things from me. So what right do I have to feel this okay?! But I am just trying to accept and embrace this feeling. I’ve been through hell and back; I deserve to feel okay for once, even if it’s temporary.

As far as the disclosure itself, nothing all too new was revealed, just 2 more minor things. One was that when he worked in the food industry (several years ago), he would be very flirty with coworkers, but says it never went beyond that. That I believe, because we have several friends who all worked at that job with him together, and I do really think they would’ve told me if something more had happened (and in a place like that, gossip spreads like wildfire, so it’s not like they wouldn’t know).

The other thing was that since his alleged sobriety in July, he HAS in fact masturbated, just not to completion (and still claims no porn since then). That feels very deceptive to me and all kinds of “nope” because masturbation is in his inner circle, and we have talked before about how that doesn’t mean just to completion (“half-turbation”). So I am upset about that. But in the grand scheme of things, that is so minor compared to other things he’s done or other things he COULD have said - again, I was preparing myself for the worst.

I had the chance to ask him questions, loads of questions - I don’t think I realized how many unanswered questions I have been sitting on for so long, until I finally had an “appropriate” time/place to ask them all.

I don’t trust my gut wholly because it has led me astray many times, but it honestly felt the most honest that it has in a long time. I feel like I believe him, even though the other part of my brain tells me that it is stupid to. And I’m certainly not going to trust/believe blindly - in fact, I told him that if there is ANYTHING that was hidden or answered dishonestly or could be misinterpreted, he needed to let me know immediately and we would talk about it in MC next week. Because if I ever find out that he lied about or hid something in this disclosure, that’s it for me. I’m not around for that.

But ... I think I’m starting to feel ready to hop down off that fence I’ve been straddling for so long. There is no guarantee that this will work - I have no clue if I will be able to work through and come to terms with all the awful things he’s done - but I think I might be ready to start trying. That’s what my gut is telling me. I am cautiously optimistic. Very, VERY catiously.

Thanks Ashes. It was supposed to be posted on 19 so here it is again.

First of all, you are all strangers and sisters to me at the same time. I want to thank all of you for your posts. When I found this SI forum, I could not believe there were so many women that had gone through what I was going through. You were and are life savers! I really thought I was alone.

A quick funny that you will all probably understand: Over the years, I remember occasionally watching a Dr Phil show about women who were married to “Sex Addicts” and apparently had no idea. I would literally laugh and talk to the TV, “Whatever, dumb bitch, any woman would know!” I mean “I was a normal” wife and my H would NEVER do that! My H would NEVER do anything to hurt me because WE had a great marriage. And if he did? I WOULD KNOW! Wow! I would really love to hug those poor women right now.

Ok, I tend to ramble so be prepared for a long post.

I’m glad you’re back Lionne! However, I wish we were on a “sharing new recipes” forum instead of this one. I’m so sorry for what you are going through AGAIN! On that note, I’ve noticed many of you have had more than one Dday. Compared to the shock and devastation of the first one, does it hurt as much? Did any of you prepare yourself just in case? How are you able to stay after the 3rd or 4th Dday?

Next week will be 6 months since my Dday. I thought I was literally dying inside. I found out about prostitutes and massage parlors. With more detective work, I found out he went to a massage parlor the day after Superbowl last year. Anyway, just another Anniversary coming up that I can look forward to. How do all of you handle the “anniversaries”?

I keep reading all of your posts and how so many of you are in R but still struggling. My problem: He will not tell me the truth! He has no idea that I know about the prostitutes and the massage parlors. I have asked him 6 times but he lies, lies and lies. He will only admit to Porn every night (365) and going to around 50 bikini coffee stands in the last 5 years. I even asked him if he thinks he has a problem with porn and he says, “Nope, not doing it anymore”. He tells me he is fine and does not want to talk about it. He says, “We just need to move on and get past this”. I asked him if he still has “young girl” fantasies and he said, “I’m trying to put those aside”.

Well, after asking and asking and not getting the truth, I will not ask again! I know for sure that he will never admit he has a problem and will NEVER get any help!

I occasionally feel sorry for my WH too. I’m sorry that he will someday realize that he lost the most awesome wife/best friend he could ever have. He lost my family who loved him deeply. But, most important, he is losing the one person who loved him more than anyone in this world. I think he will actually “get it” when all of it is gone. Yes, I feel sorry for him.

I DO have an EXIT plan. I am giving him ONE YEAR from my Dday to come clean and tell me the truth. If he doesn’t, I am going to confront him and show him the proof of what he did. Like some of you, I do not have the energy to “babysit” and check up on him for the rest of my life. I refuse to wonder every day if he is cheating or wonder every day if he is looking at porn.

Questions for those of you who are trying to R:

1.How are some of you able to stay married knowing you will never be able to completely trust him again?

2.If you are having sex with him, are you worried he might do “something” that might give you an STD?

3.How often do you think about what he did to you?

4.I asked him, “Why do you want to be with ME? Why did you want to marry me? Why didn’t you just leave me if that’s what you wanted? Have any of you asked these questions? Did you get an answer?

5.A lot of you are in R with IC’s, SA counseling, etc. Your WS’s are doing the work. If my WH refuses to even tell me the truth and will never admit he has a problem, how in the world will we ever be able to start any type of R?

MY LAST QUESTION FOR TONIGHT: Depending on what happens do any of you have an extra bedroom you could rent out? I’m asking for “a friend”.

Well done, Dogs. It sounds as though you are getting the right support, giving yourself time and being mindful.

Addicts ARE always addicts. It seems to me that it may be some sort of brain chemical issue, although I'm not sure how thinking that helps me. Or anyone.

However, I wish we were on a “sharing new recipes” forum instead of this one

Made me laugh. Although I'm not much of a cook!

I DO have an EXIT plan. I am giving him ONE YEAR from my Dday to come clean and tell me the truth. If he doesn’t, I am going to confront him and show him the proof of what he did. Like some of you, I do not have the energy to “babysit” and check up on him for the rest of my life. I refuse to wonder every day if he is cheating or wonder every day if he is looking at porn

Good plan. That year is for you. To get the proverbial ducks in a row, to heal.

1.How are some of you able to stay married knowing you will never be able to completely trust him again?

I used to have an answer to this. My therapist said the emphasis should be on ME, to trust myself to know what to do. Here I am, floundering again, but, TBH, much stronger in many ways. Leaving right now is very appealing. But not wise.

2.If you are having sex with him, are you worried he might do “something” that might give you an STD?

Sadly, not an issue. Trauma and a incurable condition get in the way.

3.How often do you think about what he did to you?

Every freaking day. Although not with the same level of anger as in the first five years.

4.I asked him, “Why do you want to be with ME? Why did you want to marry me? Why didn’t you just leave me if that’s what you wanted? Have any of you asked these questions? Did you get an answer?

I ask these questions a lot. I also think that, at least initially, I was one of the people he immediately "fell in love" with, in an unhealthy addict way. But he proposed, I agreed and he found himself committed to me with all the public fanfare that takes. And too proud to back out. The answers he's given me aren't particularly reassuring: "you are the best person I know." Which, of course sets me up to be, not a partner, but someone he admires from a distance-that intimacy anorexia that addicts thrive on. Personally, I think he married me out of a deluded sense that I would fix him.

5.A lot of you are in R with IC’s, SA counseling, etc. Your WS’s are doing the work. If my WH refuses to even tell me the truth and will never admit he has a problem, how in the world will we ever be able to start any type of R?

Gently, I don't think you can. He has to want to change for himself and if he can't even admit that he has a problem, he is not a safe partner and won't be.

Hugs everyone...LIGHT to you.

Blue-

Your questions

1. Re: Trust. I'm not sure blind trust is appropriate in any relationship, save for a parent/child relationship that is normal and healthy. My mom is likely BPD. She is not trustworthy, either.

It also helps to remember my husband is more than an addict. IOW. Addict is only one of the hats he wears. And for most everything else, I can trust him.

2. My husband's SA thus far is limited to porn, compulsive masturbation, and fantasizing. But, we are comparatively young...in our early 40s. I think if his SA wasn't discovered, it would for sure evolved to physical cheating. I'm still aware it can, for my husband, more than he is willing to admit.

I've also had four kids, which means lots of testing...with #2-4, I told him it was better if he fessed up than have me discover something while I was pregnant.

So, for now, I don't think he'll bring anything home. But, like I said, I am aware it can change in the future. But, I'm OK with for now.

3. How often do I think about it...It depends. Four kids, two jobs, and grad school doesn't leave me with lots of downtime to process. So, I only process a lot while I'm on breaks from school. So, I can go a few weeks without thinking about it, or I can process and physically not be able to get out of bed. It just depends. Sometimes, it's just an intrusive thought may or may not be upsetting. DH were playing cards last night. My instrusive thought ruined the evening.

4. DH maintains he loves me, and that's why he married me. I'm not sure I buy it...because if he loved me, he would not have relapsed for many years and lied about it when he didn't have to. This was after a decent stint of sobriety (3-4 years). I've asked him why getting high, feeling shame, etc was more important than being in a marriage with me. I mean...why he would prefer drowning in all that shit over everything. me, our decent enough house, the kids...It's more than wack brain chemistry. He's emotionally getting something out of it.

To that end, DH is seeing a therapist now to learn how to deal with his emotions, etc. He gives me the like from the Jack Nicolson Movie "You make me want to be a better man.."

5. I would like to suggest that going through the motions is not doing the work. My husband saw a CSAT for three years. Yes, he did some work. But, he was still a dry drunk. After his relapse, he's done SAA for almost 2 now. Sober all that time. Still a dry drunk.

It took him almost a decade from Dday 1 to fully admit/accept that he's an addict.

I'm not sure my husband is really capable of doing the hard work that needs to be done. We'll see how things go with this therapist in conjunction with a 12 step group.

Dogs- be mindful, for me there was the “it could have been so much worse” and I crashed a few days later

My SA decided to lhide something so minor, but my gut told me he was hiding something - I asked and he lied to my face “I wish I had something I was hiding! So I could tell you!” and manipulated for a week before stepping up and telling me.

But in the process he tried to shift blame to his IC and his accountability partner. And lied. Over something so minor my IC told him he was just being stupid. He has to go back to the place of his affair in the fall for a week. He was “waiting” to tell me.

Also, in the aftermath I pulled every one together and called him out to each of them. He had us all compartmentalized, me, his accountability people, his IC and my IC/our MC. He admitted he doesn’t always tell the complete truth to his accountability guy, as he likes the praise. I told his accountability guy you are just an AP/porn to him, he is lying to you for feel goods.

But today we had a bit of a break thru. He told me his feelings about something, which he would never have before.

Of course, he could be manipulating me!!

Edited to add- he’s also now sleeping in guest room, until I feel safe. I wish I was sure enough of my gut to tell him when I feel something is off to move to guestroom, instead of after he crosses my boundaries.

[This message edited by Smjsome1 at 11:53 PM, February 3rd (Sunday)]

Tears -

Questions for those of you who are trying to R:

1.How are some of you able to stay married knowing you will never be able to completely trust him again?

In reality- never could, I just thought I could. Now I trust me. I was angry for a lot of years before DD, and it was because my gut was telling me “bad stuff happening, you aren’t safe” but he manipulated, gaslit, and I thought I was crazy

Also — I don’t have to stay married, and also “better the devil you know”, I have no trust in anyone ever again.

2.If you are having sex with him, are you worried he might do “something” that might give you an STD?

My IC said “if you are worried, make him use a condom, AND if there is unaccounted for time (such as a work trip) or my gut says “danger” tell him no sex until you have a full std screening”. If he wants to be with me it’s on my rules/boundaries, if he doesn’t, we divorce.

3.How often do you think about what he did to you?

Every 2 mins.

I’m a year and a half out. He’s still got a long long way to go. The more important question is “how much pain are you still in?” For me, I’m in a lot of pain.

4.I asked him, “Why do you want to be with ME? Why did you want to marry me? Why didn’t you just leave me if that’s what you wanted? Have any of you asked these questions? Did you get an answer?

I did ask, still do he says I’m his safe space, he loves me, etc. I’m pretty sure at times that he just needs me because he’s afraid to be without me. He said he never felt so good as I made him feel when we met. Notice the “felt so good” - that makes me no different than AP.

5.A lot of you are in R with IC’s, SA counseling, etc. Your WS’s are doing the work. If my WH refuses to even tell me the truth and will never admit he has a problem, how in the world will we ever be able to start any type of R?

You won’t - not really. But that’s okay if you are ok. I am in group with a woman whose husband refuses to do the work and she is sooo sad, her pain is so strong. I have watched her this last six months go from ball of confusion, to strong. I think she will be strong enough to leave him one day. Or not. But She says knowing it’s not her, she will be okay either way, and setting up boundaries, all those are giving her peace and space to decide. His SA acts are particularly heinous.

And remember - our SAs who are “ doing the work” could be taking it, lying, etc. it’s about you and how you feel

Thank you everyone for the answers to my questions. After my Dday, I did see an IC and read a lot of books on Sex Addiction.

My IC said that he is more than likely "very ashamed" about what he has been doing. Have any of your WS's admitted that to you?

I read that you should never make any drastic, life changing decisions right away. The advice was to "give it one year" before deciding. That is what I'm trying to do but the end result does not seem very positive right now.

I'm very depressed today because I know one year ago and actually right about now, he was "fng" someone else. God help me!

I really think he means it when he says that he loves me and wants to be with forever and blah, blah! IMO, I believe he needs a home base. A safe place to come home to where there is love, warmth, food, and a woman who gives him hugs and takes care of him. Unfortunately, that is also what a 6 year old little boy probably feels like coming home from school. He is incredibly immature.

After Dday, there are so many flashbacks of all of the years we have been together. Damn, I was so trusting and stupid!

[This message edited by bluetears at 7:52 PM, February 4th (Monday)]

Blue, shame is a huge part of Addiction. It actually contributes to more acting out. It's a cycle, a circle. Google "cycle of Addiction." He needs to be working with a counselor who gets that and helps him deal with it and identify his trigger behaviors.

My husband is deeply ashamed of his actions.

I too hear how much he loves me. "Home base" is a great of mine, too, and the idea that he had a reasonably attractive, intelligent, educated spouse to present to the public.

The truth is, they may indeed love is, in their immature, stunted way. They are damaged individuals, stuck at the maturity level at which they began their Addiction.

Don't make drastic decisions until you've had time to heal. Get help with that.

Abluetears I don't remember if I or anyone else has encouraged you to join a good SANON group but a good group can truly help to make life tolerable. By good group I mean one that works for you; one in which you feel support; one in which you feel safe; one where you can make friends and learn how to find peace and contentment again. The groups differ according to the people who attend and the different approaches to the format so try as many as possible; if you can't find groups within traveling distance then try out different telephone and face time groups. It's great that you have found SI; it's a life saver but having IRL support can make a world of difference as well.

Tears - . Marji is correct, a good IRL support group is the only way to survive.

I can never understand how I never noticed how very very immature my SA is. And home base sounds bout right.

Also - they do always mean it in that moment, and sadly, they believe what they say. That’s one way we get fooled, I think, they seem to believe what they say

I love you

I will never lie again

I will do anything to not hurt you again

Etc. they believe it, but like a child, they have a lack of follow through. At least, that’s what I’ve seen.

And in the last year and a half I have seen my SA cry more then I have ever seen him cry in the 32 years before that. I am kind of immune to it now, it’s just his current mood. It changes fast.

I wonder if it’s like my IC says, the addiction goes until their lives cru,blue around them and become unmanageable. Maybe he wasn’t always this immature? Maybe he lost maturity as he aged, in reverse of the norm?

I wonder if it’s like my IC says, the addiction goes until their lives cru,blue around them and become unmanageable.

I think its when their lives crumble.

For my husband, his life was still manageable...his acting out behaviors were far worse 20 years ago that they are now.

But, I think he really understands that his choices to lie about his relapse have damaged our relationship to the point where I can't see a future, long term. ..at least right now...

I'm not sure how I feel that this is the motivation for a full recovery...being a better/safe person so I stay

Bluetears: I read your questions and I'm not in R; I'm still in D coming on 2 years with no real light at end of tunnel. So I do honestly believe WS who won't really face up to what he/she has done to be truthful with you are not safe physically and emotionally to be around. For me, my STBXSA filed for D because he could never tell me what he did - he lives in his own world of lies that are his own realities to him. Though in shock after less than 4 months from DDay, he gave me the gift of D because he couldn't tell the real truths. Honestly, I am relieved that I don't have to try harder in the M always worried about what is really going on. I've gotten much stronger and now I see some parts of myself I recognize through intense IC. The hardest part for me now is having to watch my DD suffer her loss and her anger about what has transpired in the family - she was the one who discovered his activities which was just the tip of the iceberg. I'm hoping she pulls through the pain and suffering this has caused her....

I do believe it's important that the SA is truthful to their partner if there is even an attempt at R. So I hope your husband does come around and can be truthful with you because I think without that, I just can't imagine how the healing can even begin....

I want you to know that there is a much better peaceful sense of being even if there is no R. I know I'm grateful to be given this chance to find myself and be living with a sense of calm and peace rather than being emotionally tormented by his issues. I also had a lot of other things that came up during the D process that has confirmed for me that R would never have worked out in the end!

Hang in there... take care of yourself....

Second time -

Yes Crumble! I’d like to claim it was 1:30 in the am typing, but I have fumble fingers all day.

Hello.

My husband's therapist is suggesting that he is addicted to pornography and prostitutes. He is not CSAT certified. I searched for CSAT certified therapists and there are none local. :( But for now that's all I have for an answer as to why he does this stuff.

I'm so tired of this. I had a good marriage. I wish WH was actually the man he pretended to be.

NotHisDoormat: At dday I only had the tip of the iceberg. But knowing he was texting a prostitute in a stripclub was enough for me to know it wasn't "normal" cheating. As I got more trickle truth I did the online SA test. Of course there was bunches I didn't know but enough to get him on the SA spectrum.

We shared the same IC and the test results I had were enough to get the IC to do the SA test with him. Higher results - how would I know answer to fantasy questions? - but then he finally admitted he was SA. The first step is admittance.

SA certainly is no excuse but it does target the therapy and get them into proper therapy.

If they won't take the test or agree to the results or submit to the therapy required, then, IMO, that is not R material.

We have moved since DDAY so our CSAT IC is now a 3 hour drive away. Oh well, that's what it takes.

[This message edited by dontsaylovely at 3:29 PM, February 5th (Tuesday)]

Hey y’all. Can I drudge something back up and ask your opinions on it? And please be honest and frank and put me in my place if I need it, because I very well might be wrong here.

So back in September, I “snooped” in my SAWH’s workbook/journal on a hunch that he was hiding things from me. This after months and months of him telling me that there was nothing else, but I still just had that gut feeling. So I looked in his book and sure enough, there was a whole lot more that he had been hiding from me, that’s when I discovered some of the worst things he was hiding.

Anyways. We’re now 4 months past that, just did the full disclosure. Well he is still holding onto those hurt/betrayed feelings from me looking in his book. I invaded his privacy, I invaded what was supposed to be a safe space for him, I had no right to do that, etc.

Here’s the thing. As a purely hypothetical concept, that makes sense. Snooping = bad. Reading someone’s private journal = bad. But we aren’t dealing with a blank slate here. It’s not like I did this without reason, without prompting. It’s not so cut and dry.

I wholeheartedly believe that I had no other choice. Well, no other choice that was right for me - the other choice was to keep living in blindness, tormented by my feelings, or to leave him based on a hunch of which I had no proof. I TRIED other routes. For weeks, months, I told him I had a feeling there was more, I felt he was hiding things, and he told me over and over that I knew everything, that there was nothing more. HE had a choice. I gave him chance after chance. And he chose gaslighting and deception.

Safety seeking, isn’t that what they call it? Information seeking. Because when he wouldn’t talk to me, it isn’t such a crazy leap that I would try to find out for myself. And you know what? My gut was right. And I’m not sorry I did it. Not a bit. Because it gave me information that I deserved to know, that I NEVER would’ve found out otherwise. He wasn’t planning to ever reveal those things to me, he said so (and then later retracted that statement of course).

I know I can’t stop him from feeling his feelings. But he wants me to acknowledge that what I did was wrong, but I really don’t think it was. I did what I had to do, with the tools I had at the time, and it truly felt to me then that I had no other options. And maybe there’s a part of me that thinks he just doesn’t deserve the same level of privacy as other people are entitled to, not after everything he’s done.

Dogs-

I too looked, once, after the relapse to gets some sort of semblence of the truth.

I'm happy to give my husband all the space he needs to work his recovery.

I've told him about 100 million times, though, he needs to share something with me, insight, something. Right now, that's the only way I can tell if he might be in recovery.

As it turns out, I do believe that his list of acting out behaviors didn't document everything. The fantasizing stuff never really made it on there. And, as it turns out, that's what my husband was most willing to lie about to protect his addiction at all costs...

My husband's lack of sharing, even after repeated requests, was the start of the realization that he's still a dry drunk. Once I got clued in on that, OMG...I don't know how I missed it.

My husband also put the blame on me, instead of owning up to the fact that he continued to choose to lie to protect his addiction. I asked a simple yes/no question that was factual. (Have you lied to me about fantasizing about x" My husband's response was "I'm feeling very ambushed right now."

Well, what, I'm supposed to give him a list of questions that he can prep his lies and get his story straight. Ok, sure, buddy. You keep thinking that.

So, anyway, my opinion is that, yes, your husband needs space to work his recovery...but yes, if you need him to share something as part of the recovery process...that's OK. If your husband puts himself in a poor me/victim role, that's the addiction talking...even if he's not actively getting high.

My new question: Do you ever get numb and can't feel?

What do you do, assuming you really can't fall apart?

There's all the SA crap with DH. Normal stressors of work, kids, blah blah. OK. I can manage. Not great. But, getting through well enough.

And, then the universe has decided that I'm not dealing with enough, and now extended family dysfunction is rearing it's ugly head, again.

I can't process anything, actually. I'm having physical reactions..panic attacks, upse, etc t stomach but I just can't really feel anything.

I don't know what to do with this..and it's frightening me just a little bit.

Secondtime,

This is a huge issue for me; feeling numb or "flat" as some people call it. I have yet to cry and I have known about his habit for a year now. I did not cry when I confronted him 9 months ago. I have not cried or shown any real anger in therapy either alone or with him.

I feel like I'm watching a show and it's happening to someone else yet I do experience anxiety, insomnia and stomach upset.

I am more irritable with my children but strangely not with my H. I am stuck at the shocked stage. I still shake my head and remind myself that this man I married had a secret life I never knew about and that I must have been living under a rock to not see it.

I wish I could feel more but maybe I am protecting myself from a breakdown. The other possiblity is that I don't really care because I know how utterly ridiculous it all is and that I didn't do anything to deserve it nor can I erase what he did.

In fact, all of this is beyond my control; past, present and future.

My heart is broken but I just can't show anyone how vulnerable I really am. I built a wall to protect myself during my marriage and it has served me well to protect me from further hurt.

So much to talk about in IC...

Dogs,

I don't know what I would do if my H's workbook were right in front of me. He has not begun any type of SA work yet, but if he agrees to do the work, I cannot imagine what will eventually be on those pages. Not sure he will be honest.

They say we should treat others as we would like to be treated so if my workbook were in front of my H I would not want him to read it.

However, they are not really in a position to be respected, unfortunately. The trust level is not very high and we doubt everything they say. For this reason, I can understand why you would have been tempted to seek information just in case he is pulling the wool over your eyes.

You see, we end up treating them in such a way that is a consequence of their actions. You are protecting yourself just as you may still look at his cell bills or check his texts.

I am very insecure about what my H is hidign from me as i have not had a full disclosure yet. My temptation to look at a workbook would be very high.

I say whatever makes you feel safe is fair game.

He had enough secrecy to last him a lifetime. Too bad if you glanced at his book. If he had behaved, he would not have such a workbook.

Sorry, not in a good mood tonight and a little down on men.