SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know the ginormous elephant is the fact that he came to me twice with his worries and concerns, and I lied right to his face. I think that will be the deal breaker, and I don't blame him. I understand it. He opened himself up to me, became vulnerable, and I lied right to his face because I was scared and selfish.

I know it's the WW handbook to say "we only had sex once," but that actually is the truth for my affair. As for the fooling around, my top was the item of clothing that ever came off. Again, I know most won't believe that.

I know he needs time. I am not trying to rush anything. I have never said or would ever say to him "get over it already" or "I already said I was sorry what more do you want from me?" In How to Help Your Spouse Heal, those were things the unsuccessful rebuilders say. I am not one of those. He has every right to feel any and all emotions. He has every right to take how ever long of time he needs.

I'm just scared. We're both scared.

FWIW seeing an attorney is not like seeing a therapist.

If my xWW saw a lawyer so close to Dday I would take that not a "just to see how things look for us" meeting but "how will I (WW) fare in a divorce).

If WE went to a lawyer together that's a different story. Then it's the what things look like for us and the future meeting.

Keep doing what you can and prepare yourself that he will be going through all of the mood swings sometimes all at the same time. His brain is fighting his heart.

It is somewhat easier for you because right now all you want is to get back together with him. I said "right now" because a couple months ago you were having an affair. He is trying to process that, doesn;t know what he wants. Or if he can do what he wants...

I responded that way because she said she was worrying. She clarified what she was worried about.

Pink, I understand what you were saying.

Posted by Lifedestroyer:

I know it's the WW handbook to say "we only had sex once," but that actually is the truth for my affair. As for the fooling around, my top was the item of clothing that ever came off. Again, I know most won't believe that.

Saying your top is the only thing that came off doesn't tell the story of what you did when you were "fooling around".

It's one thing to say that your top is the only thing that came off, and it's another to tell the truth of what you did. That statement smacks of minimizing.

In my mind, that means either you engaged in sex acts such as regular oral sex escalating to intercourse, or you really really wanted to fuck this guy bad because you went from only showing him your tits (over a 6-month affair with a serial cheater with an STD, really?) to having intercourse with him AFTER your husband came to you twice with his concerns.

This does not make any sense. Telling your husband stuff that makes no sense is no way to build trust. Remember the STD exposure trickle-truth lie that you told?

He knows what happened. I wrote it down and told him.

This does not make any sense. Telling your husband stuff that makes no sense is no way to build trust.

I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, I agree with faithfulman. It sounds off. Adults who have the desire and opportunity for sexual contact usually take advantage of that opportunity. Whatever you were feeling, this guy wanted in your pants, so he was unusually patient if you were successful at keeping sex to a junior high level for so long. Under your shirt to full intercourse is an implausible single leap. Honestly, the darkest explanation for what you're describing would be that you actually did know about the STD, so you kept him above the waist to prevent infection until your resolve finally cracked.

On the other hand, when faithfulman writes

you really really wanted to fuck this guy bad because you went from only showing him your tits (over a 6-month affair with a serial cheater with an STD, really?) to having intercourse with him AFTER your husband came to you twice with his concerns,

that doesn't sound as insane to me as it does to him. I can see drifting along for a while, in an EA that you're denying, and then making out like young teenagers, either (A) thinking that it won't go further or (B) not thinking at all. You're getting your ego kibbles, the high of being desired. Denying him and yourself just fans that desperate, star-crossed longing while giving yourself a way to pretend it's not really an A.

But then, your BH started to suspect. The smart thing would have been to wake up immediately and shut the A down, but that would be strong and logical, and you were neither of those things. You panicked not because of your H, but because you realized the door might be closing, and so you threw all semblance of caution to the winds and barreled through while you still had the chance. You wanted to have that memory forever.

Neither version paints you in a good light, but I can see both of them. And that's the huge challenge of recovering from trickle truth. It's not that an explanation is impossible. It's that the BH finally understands that almost anything is possible, that you weren't bound by either logic or morality, and so there's no way to even guess what version is the truth.

Fuck no I had no clue about the STD or that there were other women. He obviously wasn't a good man and didn't tell me any of that. Yes, we fooled around with touching and kissing and rubbing. There was no oral prior to the day we had sex. There was lots of talk and what if scenarios. Neither one of us got off while we were together. It was lots of teasing, but nothing to completion.

I wish I could give an actual reason for why I chose to betray my husband, but I can't because I still don't know why. I look at those months and can't fathom how or why I could do that. I can say that I mentally put the affair in a box. I thought it would never get out and my husband would never have to be destroyed by it. I was going to take it to my grave and be done with it. I ask myself every day "Why? Why did you have an affair?"

I get it, truly. There are similarities in our stories that make me far more likely to believe you. I'm just saying that I see where faithfulman is coming from. He can't view the world like a wayward does, so an illogical story feels like it must be a lie. It's not to my credit, but my experience means I can see the other angles.

And that is something a BS, who never even thought of cheating on their spouse, has so much trouble understanding.

Waywards are smart. Otherwise, they would be caught immediately. But, when infatuated with an AP, good sense flies out the window. At home, they appear to be the same intelligent person they have always been. But when the AP winks at them, intelligent thought disappears.

As a BS, reading what you just wrote, my first thought are, he is so obviously not a good man. How could you have thought be was a good man? Why would you think you were the only one be was cheating with? Why wouldn't you consider he could have an STD? I understand that wayward wives tend to believe they are special to the OM, because he is "choosing" you over his own wife. And, I'm sure he said plenty of words to make you think that.

BUT. He is cheating and lying to the woman he made vows to. A good man does not cheat. He involved you with his kids. A good man would never bring his mistress around the children. Even amongst cheaters, that's not very common, because that's a line even they won't cross. He made out with you in his marital home. Which is,again, a line many cheaters won't cross.

A good man doesn't cheat. A good father doesn't cheat on his kids,and involve the OW with them.

How in the world could you have thought he was a good man? It makes zero sense.

I know you were doing basically the same things he was doing. Except you never had him in your home. Maybe that is why you didn't see what a POS he was.

I know you see it now. I do. I just will never understand how an AP so completely believes their AP is a good man when they know he is lying. They know how low they will sink to get their fix.

You are an extremely intelligent woman. Somehow you justified all of his actions. It's mind boggling.

I never justified his actions, nor did I say I thought he was a good man. He is a piece of shit. I am a piece of shit. We both betrayed our spouses. This was his second or third or who knows time of doing it. I was in my fantasy world when I was with him. I blocked out all of the real world things. I was extremely selfish and only cared about myself and what I was feeling. It didn't even matter what he was feeling. I was getting my ego stroked and I liked it. I felt a false sense of self esteem and worth.

I think Hellfire means she can't understand how you justified seeing him as a good man at the time, when the briefest examination of the facts should have popped that balloon. The answer "because I wanted to see him that way, otherwise the whole house of cards would have collapsed" just doesn't compute for her and never will.

This is one of the rare cases where I'm "lucky" to be a madhatter, because it isn't as much of a stretch for my BH to understand my thought process now that I'm finally being honest about it. He doesn't condone it, and we both know that nothing justifies it, but he is at least able to grasp it.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 9:57 AM, September 2nd (Monday)]

Thank you, BSR. I did mean at the time of the affair.

I mentally put the affair in a box. I thought it would never get out and my husband would never have to be destroyed by it. I was going to take it to my grave and be done with it.

LD, This line resonates with me.I'm a bs 15 months after D-day . This is the first line my WW used at our first therapy session. Knowing my WW can take anything to her grave when we used to have open communication still worries me. Her actions now are helping us get through this but that statement from my WW was very shocking to me. I hope you can find ways to prove you'll always be open and honest with him but it will take a long time.

I'm pulling for you guys just keep working at it.

Good luck!

He just told me about a conversation he had with our daughter the other day. He said she asked him "are there lucky mommies who don't have any kids?" He was very confused on what she said, so he asked her what she meant. She said it again. He told her all mommies are lucky to have kids. He asked her why she asked that. She told him that she knows she isn't always nice to me and says mean things to me. He reassured her that I am very lucky to be her mommy. My heart stopped. My daughter thinks that I don't love her and that I think being her mommy is awful. He said he didn't tell me to hurt me, that he would want to know if she ever said that about him. That I should talk to my therapist about it.

I always felt like a failure as a mom. That just solidified it. They would absolutely be better off without me. She would have her dad and my dad, they would have her. Yes, I am going down that path in my head. The thought has always been there. He's taking a nap right now, so I can't talk to him about this. I don't have therapy this week, so that will have to wait until next Monday.

I understand the fear -- I've had the same fear, more than once, and the same dark thought process about a simple solution. If I'm the common denominator of all the problems, wouldn't removing myself fix everything in the long run?

No, because you are also the common denominator of all the solutions. Whatever mistakes you've made, you are her mother, the center of her world, you love her, and she loves you. If you check out, it won't fix her self-blame, it will amplify it a thousandfold. You can get her into therapy. You can be honest with her counselor about the stresses that you fear have contributed to this false belief. You can save her from so much pain, not by abandoning her, but by seeing her through it, no matter how much that hurts.

And it's also possible that you've totally misread the basis of her question. You both assume this is about something you did to make her feel that way, and it's a logical assumption, but you are speculating. I don't know how old she is, but now that my kids are teens, they've told me about complexities of their childhoods that I never suspected. Getting to the bottom of her insecurities could take a while.

Good parents know they'd die for their children, but living through pain like this for them is the real measure of our love. Please get help for yourself to put these dark thoughts to bed.

Not even two months out is nothing.

The roller coaster of emotions has not even shifted into high gear. It will get worse before it gets better.

Your job is to stay positive no matter what. It's not over until the papers are signed by the court.

I see you leaning toward divorce talks. Don't ever give him the idea that divorce is OK with you.

Divorce is not ok with me. I don't want that. I said that we could if meant that he could he happy again. I was trying to put his feelings and well-being above my own.

They would absolutely be better off without me. She would have her dad and my dad, they would have her. Yes, I am going down that path in my head. The thought has always been there.

LD, this concerns me. These thoughts are LIES your stressed and pained brain are telling you. PLEASE do not act upon them.

Never go down that path. Call the crisis hotline if you need to. There is a poster, Ambivalant One i thing his namw is. His wife killed herself. It caused more pain than you will ever know. Death of marriage and and wife. How do you recover from that as a husband and child? Dont visit that pain on your family.