SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks Cooley2here! And like your Shakespeare quote, I was true unto myself.

Karmafan, again I was not stalking her, and my story is not an accurate comparison to the one you shared. I had not attempted any form of contact with her in nearly 4 months, and I have no intention of reaching out to her again (unless I unexpectedly bump into her and will cordially say hello). I stopped reaching out after the first 2 weeks after the breakup, and it would have been less than that had her brother-in-law not encouraged me to reach out one last time. I was at the sports bar first, even before her dude showed up, which was a long time before she showed up. If she was uncomfortable she could have left or found another table. The dude clearly knew who I was because he was staring at me for a long time before she arrived. And while my table was somewhat between theirs and the TVs, they would have had to look away from the TV in order to see me. I was sitting roughly at about 11-o’clock away from them, while the TV was more like 2-o’clock. So they had to make a concerted effort to stare at me. The right thing to do was to say hello to someone you know, and while I respect the opinions of those who think otherwise, I stand by my actions and don’t think I was wrong. If they were at all uncomfortable, it was because they know they cheated and she handled the end of the relationship dishonorably.

GTS, I so want you to find happiness, which is why I'm chiming in. I completely agree that going up, talking to her and introducing yourself to her new guy (!) has the high likelihood of coming off creepy and like you haven't moved on. Mature thing to do is to give the woman peace. I just cannot wrap my head how going up to someone and interrupting their date night can be seen as a gentlemanly thing to do? She's now someone that you used to know. The sooner that becomes a reality in your head, the sooner you can move on. I've been in her place (without any cheating, just in a public place at the same time with someone that I used to date) and I have personally found it super creepy when someone approaches me when I've made it clear to them that the relationship is over. Obviously you can continue to do what you want to do, but it's possible that you don't realize how you are coming off to other people. If I were doing something that was creeping people out, I'd want to know so I could change my behavior. And your IRL friends are often not going to be honest with you because they don't want conflict.

Agree 100% with Karma:

I am just saying that, from personal experience, unwanted attention is not just uncomfortable - it’s unnerving. If the other person has moved on, and they have made it abundantly clear that they no longer want you in their life, in any capacity, then you have got to stop telling yourself stories of what is or isn’t acceptable. Or classy or gutsy or mature. You just have to respectfully move on.

Just an FYI, this is what the update said:

They were a few tables away, but we were sitting between them and the TV, so they had to look at us the whole time.

It didn't sound like she was staring although you mentioned her BF had been.

Your reply to AnnieOakley said this:

I agree with you that what SHE is doing is bitchy and passive agressive.

What was the passive/aggressive behavior that night? Or are you referring to the last few months?

You replied to one of Poppy's posts with this:

This is now over 4 months, and she was right there staring at me

This wasn't in the original post, so I didn't know about it either until you elaborated.

I know you want validation for your actions, but please don't be angry when someone sees things from a different perspective. I haven't seen anything rude in Poppy's comments (although the penis comment sounded angry and targeting men in general). All I see are people trying to help you see the situation from a different point of view. In your other postings every time someone disagreed you were all over it (very respectfully). And I can say this because I know I've done it too. I don't want to hear that my actions are causing more harm to myself than good but someone was having to tell me because they could see what I didn't. Many new posters to SI are warned that they will get the "honest truth" even if it hurts. Someone had suggested taking what is helpful and chucking the rest. Constantly trying to prove a point only gets everyone going back and forth trying to convince the other that they're right (again, been there and done that) and nothing more is accomlished.

I'm really sorry you're struggling over this relationship and, despite having answers, it will hurt for a while. I'm glad you went out with friends and hope you continue to do so. And honestly, if you had said nothing to her what harm would it have done? Would it have changed how SHE felt? The real question is, would it have mattered how SHE felt? She's been COLD towards you for a while now. She doesn't DESERVE you stopping by to say hi, she doesn't DESERVE any kind of attention from you. She blew it!

My comment about penises was in direct response to toxic masculinity. Men are great. I like men more than women. But men feeling entitled because “I’m a man”, is bad for otherwise good kind decent men.

GTS:

Women who want you to be happy, and successful, and healthy are telling you “ Don’t be the creepy guy!”.

You are responding “I’m sure I’m [italic]RIGHT[/italic]”.

Please, hear us. We care. We know you’re good. But when we take the time to explain to you what will hurt you, and your relationship, please consider it. It is honestly said with concern, and care, because we also believe you’re good. But you have wandered into an area that makes women afraid.

phmh, new life, and Poppy:

Thanks for the much softer and gentler 2x4s. Your points are well taken, especially yours new life - thanks for the further explanation. You’re right, she doesn’t deserve me or my attention, and she did blow it. I would have done anything for her and her family, which is something her brother-in-law pointed out to me during the phone call when he urged me not to give up. I didn’t think what I was doing at the bar was offensive to them, and they weren’t having a date night by any stretch - before she met him there, he was there with 4 other male friends, and after she arrived, one other female friend showed up. And this was early afternoon football. I didn’t ruin date night. I don’t have much experience in dealing with relationships that ended poorly. It’s really only been this one and my marriage. I’m actually friends with just about every other one of my exGFs, and most women who I dated since my divorce 4-1/2 years ago. In fact many of them friend requested me on Facebook AFTER I had broken up with them. So I guess when I bump into women I’ve dated in the past, it’s normal for me to say hello to them and introduce myself to their boyfriends.

Poppy, yes I was referring to the penis comment, and I don’t think anyone who knows me would describe me as having toxic masculinity. I’m definitely a masculine male, but I was raised to always be respectful, say hello to people, and look them in the eye when I shake hands, I’m sorry if anything I wrote triggered something inside you that made you feel as though I was being toxically masculine. All I meant was that I was being genuine and accountable, and that I owned my behavior. Remember too, that my last conversation with her 4 months ago was that we could talk again soon. I’ve been respectful by not reaching out to her since. But seeing her in person, I would normally always say hello. Hopefully, now that I’ve done that, it won’t be uncomfortable should I see her again.

I've also been dating a bit. I've been dating one woman since early November, but she seems to be getting too attached, and I'm not ready to be attached. We have talked about my situation and how I need to take things slowly, but she's more into me than I am her. I don't want to jump into a full blown relationship with anyone right now. I have been on a couple lunch dates with another woman, and I'm intrigued by her, but I don't think she's a long-term fit either, and that's OK.

GTS: All throughout this thread, I and others suggested (from our own hard-earned experience) - that perhaps you needed some time away from dating because you were still emotionally tangled up with your ExGF. I asked what was the longest period you'd been "alone" (without any kind of love interest).

Someone said date if you want to date - and I think that's all good as long as everyone is on the same exact page. Your post above talks about one woman being more into you than you are into her and she's getting "too attached." And then another woman is intriguing, but not a long term fit. It seems a little all over the place. Are you just looking for fun - or are you looking for a long term fit? Or maybe you're not sure yet?

This is why things can be so confusing for all parties if you leap into the dating game before taking a few moments to heal. Sometimes it's just to fill a void - or to boost the self-esteem our Ex's have run into the ground.

I did it myself. And the thing I realized is that it certainly wasn't fair to the other men I was dating. And it also wasn't fair to myself because it set my healing back goo gobs.

I know you have felt like you have to defend yourself on this thread and you don't. I think everyone is cheerleading for your healing and using our own past mistakes and experiences as lessons learned type examples.

What I would have done in the bar situation would be to lean over to my friend and tell him it was time for us to go. I'm not saying that's what you *should* have done. My own instincts now though are to always remove myself from anything having the potential for drama or crossed boundaries. And it wouldn't have been enjoyable for me at all to sit in the same bar with an Ex - no matter who walked through the door first. I don't think that makes me a coward or that I would be doing the wrong thing - but it does keep things *clean* for me.

[]Hopefully, now that I’ve done that, it won’t be uncomfortable should I see her again.

It will always be uncomfortable. Because you will be bothering someone that wants nothing to do with you. And everyone that is with her will know that you will come over even though literally every person involved knows she never wants to see you approaching or hear your voice. Not because she’s doing something wrong, but because you are. You may desensitize yourself to how inappropriate it is and how you are making everyone uncomfortable, but it won’t be better. Until you stop.

He continued to interact with her people’s social media. They blocked him. That is between him and those specific people. Not the OP and the ex. This is what I mean by boundaries. She does not control her friends and family’s interactions with the OP.

The ex has interacted with the OP’s people. The decision to interact with her is up to THEM, not the OP. Hence control.

Are you seriously going to tell us she didn't tell her sister that she needed to have her husband end contact? Nonsense, and by your definition "control". Oddly to only person not attempting to control "his people" is the OP.

The incident at the bar: OP said he was sitting between the ex’s group and the tv. They were watching the tv, not him, he specifically said this. Not snickering, pointing, staring. He is still forcing interaction directly with his ex that she has CLEARLY stated she does NOT want.

Quote from OP previous post below.

About an hour after we got there, I could feel someone staring at me, and I turned to look and it looked a lot like the guy my exGF is dating. He was there with a couple other guys. About 30 minutes after that

Yet another "error" you made, he clearly indicated there was staring which by your own definition would be forcing interaction by the OM. Wonder what kind of narrative the X has been weaving to cause such an aggressive action? I doubt she is the villain in her own story.

I am not the only woman who said this is bad behavior and a red flag. The reason the OPs future relationships are in a concern is because he has expressed interest in getting back in the dating game.

Ahh, so its not OK for the OP to have investigated the X and her behavior because he intends to return to the dating scene. I could easily argue he was able to make sound reasonable conclusions which allowed him to close the book on the doomed relationship which was due to the X's character issues.

You can keep insulting me. You are an internet stranger and I don’t give a rat’s ass.

I have not insulted you, I have defined and assessed your postings which of course do reflect upon you. When I actually insult people there is little question. Furthermore not "giving a rats ass" about another's perspective is exactly why yours is being challenged and discounted.

But every woman who has been involved with a man that either A. just won’t stop after the break up or B. has been that guy to another woman, and they are to be avoided like the plague.

And every man has had the female do the same, you are projecting your agenda upon the OP. He is individual and his actions must be seen in that light, unless you prescribe to a statistically based probability model for people, which is a dangerous slope as it leads to a number of very unsavory conclusions for all groups, even the ones you are a part of as well.

I think the OP is a decent person who is in a very bad head space, that is in danger of digging himself a hole that will get harder and harder to get out of as he continue this way. I really hope he finds help, finds peace, and goes on to be happy.

He very much was in a "very bad head space", most of it because of his perspective of a lack of clarity. Clarity has been achieved for the most part and he appears to be coming back into a better spot. It certainly does not help when a poster WITH CLEAR AGENDA such as yourself attacks him.

If you wish to help him then do so, if you wish to post to only further your agenda (which most of your posting are about, to be very direct) perhaps it would be best to reconsider what you are REALLY trying to accomplish.

blahblahblahe: yes, I think you understand me well. Everything you said was spot on. I needed closure, and since she wouldn’t give it to me, I kept wondering what the heck I did wrong. Many members on this site, and many of my friends in real life suggested she was cheating on me, and I refused to believe it. When I saw evidence, everything made sense - so many of my questions were answered. All except the role my “best friend” played. But I have some ideas about his role too. Sadly, none of my ideas about his role are favorable. But discovering the missing puzzle pieces with the exGF certainly helped me be more able to move forward. Until I found out that information, I still had hope she would come to her senses and come back to our relationship. That hope ended in early November when it became clear she was likely cheating on me. That’s when I was finally able to start to recover. I’m not 100% there, but I’ve been getting stronger every day until yesterday’s setback. But that setback seeing her with him in person was a necessary step in my healing, and I think I handled it well, despite what some others on here have said.

I follow this thread from the beginning and I was worried about you and how hard you took your GF dumping you. I never postet anything, but now I feel I have to. I must say you handled the situation well, just the way you needed too. I'm a bit baffled about the responses you get, maybe I'm just not "delicate" enough to get all the nuances, but you obvioulsy needed that and you got at least some kind of closure for yourself. In my opinion you weren't stalkerish or something in that direction. About her boundaries, hm... If she was uncomfortable, she could leave. You did good in an awkward situation and I really hope you feel better.

Thank you bookworm19. I agree. Not sure why I’m the one who should be so sensitive to her feelings and comfort when she obviously wasn’t concerned about mine? I did what I felt was right.

I think that we’ve all received advice on this site that we didn’t want to hear or weren’t ready yet to hear, but for the most part all of the advice was well intentioned and motivated to help us. I believe that at this point, you’re needlessly subjecting yourself to more pain. So, with an eye towards making you see that, I’d like you to consider asking yourself these questions:

1. What is it that you want from your ex-gf? Do you want her back as your ex-gf? Realistically, I don’t see that happening on her end, but if she wants to come back to you, why would you want her back?

2. Do you want her to admit that she cheated on you with new bf? Realistically, I don’t see that happening at this point.

3. Do you want her back in your social circle? If so, why? If not, why approach her table to wish happy new year? If you don’t want your social circle socializing with her, why would you reach out to her or her family yourself?

I think that many, if not all of us, have been in your position, but we didn’t get the closure or end result that we wanted. I think that all of us think that it would serve you best if you moved on from your ex-gf, but you seem to be having difficulty doing so, even though you may realize that too.

GotTheShaft, you said it, you did, what you felt right for you, end of story. I hope, you will be able to get over it and her. It is hard and I get what other members are saying and trying to explain, but we are so different and you just had to do it. I really hope this was some kind of closure and you will be able to see she's not good for you. And your "friend" too... Don't allow them more space in your head, new and better things are in store for you I'm sure, you will be ok.

[This message edited by bookworm19 at 8:17 AM, January 5th (Tuesday)]

GTS

One thing that jumped out at me was your insistence that going up to her and introducing yourself was “the gentlemanly” thing to do. I must point out that doing that was actually the opposite. A gentleman respects the wishes of others; she has made it abundantly clear that she wants no contact with you. Be it on the beach, her ghosting you or any of her other behavior since has sent this message quite clearly. Yet you felt the need to engage.

I’m not trying to pile on here. I was in a similar situation in a previous LTR. Let’s be honest here, you are never going to have the type of closure that takes away the pain. Let’s say she admits to cheating or any other despicable act, is that really going to help? At the end of the day, the relationship will still be over. Keeping yourself engaged in it at any level will just cause you more pain.

For your own piece of mind, you need to accept the fact it’s over and move on. I know it’s easier said than done. I wasted years of my life over my ex; it was only after putting her and the relationship squarely in my rear view did I begin to move on.

Alonelyagain: You make really good points, and I'll try to answer as best as I can.

1. What is it that you want from your ex-gf? Do you want her back as your ex-gf? Realistically, I don’t see that happening on her end, but if she wants to come back to you, why would you want her back?

Good question, and I'm not sure I know the answer. Knowing that she most likely cheated (even if it was only an EA - though I think it became a PA before she broke up with me), I could never trust her again, so I guess I wouldn't want her back as a girlfriend.

2. Do you want her to admit that she cheated on you with new bf? Realistically, I don’t see that happening at this point.

I think perhaps I do want her to admit that, and to explain why. I think I know why - she probably realized that I wasn't going to blend families soon enough for her. She renewed her lease in June for another year, and I think she had probably was hoping I would have blended families before then. I probably wouldn't have done it by June 2021 either, because her older son was a major concern for me. I think she saw this guy jumping in as a "just add dad" situation for her kids, and probably would enable her to quit working soon. This gives her financial security, help raising her disrespectful boys, and the ability to stop working. I wasn't offering that at this time. But you're right, she will never admit that as long as she is still with the guy. Perhaps if they break up, but even then she probably would never admit it.

3. Do you want her back in your social circle? If so, why? If not, why approach her table to wish happy new year? If you don’t want your social circle socializing with her, why would you reach out to her or her family yourself?

No, I don't really want her back in my social circle either. It would be too hard to see her with any other guy. I have not reached out to her or her family in 4 months, but if I bumped into any of them at a restaurant or walking down the street, I would say hello and be cordial, just like I did with her and the new guy. In fact, if I bumped into the new guy alone at the gym or at a bar, I would say hello to him. That's not being stalkerish - it's being polite and mature. I'm not engaging him (or her or her family) in conversation or inviting them out to dinner or drinks. However, she has been attempting to do that with my friends.

I think overall, I'm having a difficult time with the way the relationship ended and how she behaved when she ended it. I've never experienced treatment like this ever before, and I've never treated anyone that I've broken up with this way. Maybe it's about closure? I don't think so. I have most of the answers I would want to seek. I just can't understand how someone who appeared to love me on one day could drop me like a lead balloon the next day without a conversation. I think it's an ego bruise in the sense that I feel so horribly discarded and trashed by someone whom I loved and trusted, especially after she knew what I had been through in my marriage.

I don't know what I want from her. Nothing she can do will stop the hurt. That needs to come from me. But I can't be afraid to see her - our town isn't that big. And, since she won't stop pursuing my friends (not friends we met together, but friends I've known for years), I'm bound to run into her again.

GTS- You keep saying your ex is pursuing your friends and your daughters, and I felt kind of that way during my Divorce with my exWW as well. Friends that were mine, and family members that were mine that still had her on facebook or instagram. My family has since blocked her on all social media, but not all of my friends.

Most people are not going to want to join the drama of your breakup. Yes, they know she cheated b/c you told them, just like my friends knew what my exWW did b/c I filled them in, and some did cut her out, but not all. Some just left her on as a friend in FB or Insta, but they are all adults and get to choose what they want to do. There was no way I was going to tell my friends who they can or cannot be friends with, and the same goes for my family. The hope was, that they would all come to my side and defend my honor. Well, that didn't happen, and you know what, it wasn't b/c they're bad people or that they didnt think I was in the right and was wronged by my ex, it just did affect them like it affected me.

The same may be true of your friends. They just don't want the drama, and to them, you GF didn't do anything bad to them. You have to accept this, even for your daughters. Obviously they know you're hurt and still did not on their own doing decide to kick her from their friends list on Insta. And you know what, its okay. You're having a hard time with this break up and that is okay too. I think everyone on here is just trying to help you move on from this.

As a father of daughters, maybe you can look at this from the angle of your girls. If one of your daughters cheats on her BF, and then just wants to move on, and have no more relations or contact with that individual, but thinks its okay that she is friendly with her friends, is that okay? How would you as a father react, if that old BF kept coming at her, like you did on vacation, or in this instance? Does your view change? Just curious if it would be different for you if the shoe was on the other foot. I know as a father if my daughter wanted nothing to do with an exBF, I know I'd be damn sure he stayed the fuck away even if my daughter cheated. I wouldn't condone the cheating, but make no mistake, I'm not fucking around if her BF keeps coming around. Maybe you feel this way too.

I think you've suffered enough thru this. Like PHoenix, I too think you would be best to take a break from dating. You aren't ready. Find some more bike trails, go do some stuff with the kids and your guy friends. Hopefully, we'll emerge from this Pandemic, and you can use the next 5/6 months to work on yourself and be a hot target for the girls when summer hits. Regardless of how you feel about your ex now, its clear from her part that she has moved on, and you should show her the grace that you would want shown to your daughters. Leave her be, and move on. Who knows, maybe by the time you've really worked on yourself and are fully ready to date again, she comes crawling back. But hopefully you're smarter now and won't take another cheater back.

HalfTime2017 - Thanks for your response, but if I knew that one of my daughters cheated on a boyfriend or husband, I would demand that she do the right thing, apologize, and have a proper conversation at the end of a breakup. In fact, when I broke up with the woman I had been dating for the past 2 months, my daughters knew I was going to that woman's house to break up with her. I've had plenty of age-appropriate conversations with my daughters about morals, values, dating, and sex. When I make a mistake, I let them know that I've made a mistake, and I have to own the mistake and fix the mistake as best I can. I'm raising them to behave respectfully, and not the way my exGF handled the breakup.

So, if one of my daughters ended a relationship by cheating and ghosting, and the guy she did that to wanted a polite conversation at the beach 1 week after the breakup, or if the guy said a polite hello after he saw him staring at her for over an hour from 10ft away at a sports bar, I would tell my daughter that her behavior was wrong.

Listen, I respect your point of view, even if I disagree with it. I understand that you are trying to help me, and I appreciate it. But we see things differently here. It's not like I saw her walk into a restaurant and then chase after her. I was at a sports bar, her boyfriend came in and stared at me for a long time, then she showed up and stared at me for a long time. I walked over and said hello. I didn't ask to have a conversation. I didn't raise my voice or call her names. I just said hello and introduced myself to the guy and his friends. I don't see the harm in that. It didn't hinder my healing. In fact, I'd argue that it might accelerate it, because I was in the situation sooner than I had expected to have been, and I felt like I handled it with grace. I didn't let their presence intimidate me, and I didn't yell or scream at them. I believe I showed class and dignity.

You (and others) obviously disagree, and that's OK. I don't think there's any clear cut right or wrong answer here. If you find yourself in the situation I was in, then do what you feel is the right thing to do - if that means sitting still and pretending not to know her, that's fine; if that means moving tables or leaving the restaurant that you were at firs, that's also fine.

I'm fine with you disagreeing with the way I handled the situation, but I don't believe I've done anything wrong. And, certainly, she has done more wrong than anything I had done on Sunday. If she was uncomfortable with me coming over, then she shouldn't have sat there, or she should have gone to another bar when she saw I was 10ft away from her. If she were there first, and I came and sat down where I did, that's a different story.

OP, I can relate to your situation...

I too was in a LTR that suddenly went bad--it went from seemingly great to 'over' in 2 months. And then within a few months of of our relationship ending, she was already in a serious relationship with another man.

I also have struggled to move on after a break-up too.

You know this already--your ex is gone. She made it perfectly clear that it is over, and from how she ended it with you she doesn't deserve your friendship anyway. Next time you see her at a bar, the grocery store, whatever, there is no point for you to go over and say hi.

I do think this analyzing and over-analyzing and the browbeating here on this forum about you going up to her and her group, is ridiculous and besides the point though. No one was traumatized. She assuredly is not chewing over the interaction, so there is no need for you to be either. She does not deserve all this mental bandwidth you still seem to be giving her.

Onward and upward!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 4:22 PM, January 5th (Tuesday)]

WontBeFooledAgain - Thanks, and sorry you're going through the same thing.

Well I should have made clear that this was a long long time ago for me, and I am long over it. I do get the rollercoaster of emotions in the meanwhile though.

It may not seem this way now, but one day you will have moved on from your ex completely and actually be thankful that this did not work out.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:06 PM, January 5th (Tuesday)]