SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Gotta be honest, you’re getting played. The moment she said she wanted to break the affair is when she admitted that she’s not capable of being faithful. She’s saying, I’m an adult but somehow could not make the right decision. I’ve heard it before, all this “out of body experience” and I “wasn’t myself” bull crap. And let me guess she said the Affair had nothing to do with you. My response would be;

“Anytime I was told that the A had nothing to do with me, I took offense. Bc every single time they held hands, touched, kissed, had sex, smiled at each other, texted, talked, etc....every single one of those instances was a great big flip of the middle finger directed at me. It's not like they thought what they were doing was ok. They knew it was wrong...the ultimate betrayal. So yes, It had everything to do with me.“

Whatever need it fulfilled for her was greater that the will to stop.

Classic addict thinking.

Bahama, your WW is an addict. She is addicted to the highs that the training, and when that peaked, the high she got from her AP and the sex.

She needs to address this before you can even have a whiff of a chance at R.

Bahama:

It appears your WW continues to make positive steps. You seem to have a good grasp of what she was saying about missing the friendship with her AP training partner. Could she be playing you? Sure, but her actions since confrontation say she is being genuine. You know her well.. Its good you expressed no tolerance for her AP or any limerance. As you,Over forward it’s important to set strong boundaries and communicate. If you decide to move to the R forum good luck. But she must follow through with IC to address her issues and brokenness.

*slight t/j*

BBBD:

She’s saying, I’m an adult but somehow could not make the right decision. I’ve heard it before, all this “out of body experience” and I “wasn’t myself” bull crap. And let me guess she said the Affair had nothing to do with you. My response would be;

“Anytime I was told that the A had nothing to do with me, I took offense. Bc every single time they held hands, touched, kissed, had sex, smiled at each other, texted, talked, etc....every single one of those instances was a great big flip of the middle finger directed at me. It's not like they thought what they were doing was ok. They knew it was wrong...the ultimate betrayal. So yes, It had everything to do with me.“

BBBD, you did me a huge service with this statement. This is exactly what I've been saying to WH for months.

His indiscretion was relatively minor, but in the context of what happened, when and how, it was HUGE. (Long story, won't t/j here to that extent.)

He's given me the various versions of the "out of body experience" bit, as well as the "I wasn't thinking" and "I didn't mean for that to happen" routine.

I read a bullshit translator column, which I sent to WH. Not sure what you meant to happen to me, but it's fairly obvious what you meant to happen with her, and for you. If your point is, you didn't mean for this to hurt me, well that was a major fail. If you'd really meant to do me no harm, you would have kept your hands to yourself.

What you wrote up there resonated so strongly with me that I showed it to WH. He'd probably still take a bullet/jump in front of a train/drink cyanide etc. (ALL FIGURATIVELY, FOLKS) before he actually admitted to making a conscious decision to cheat (he has reluctantly admitted to "some rationalization," which he keeps taking back in favor of "no higher thought until after it was over") but hearing this out of someone else, particularly from a guy, seemed to get some traction with him.

And that all by itself should piss me off, although, I am kind of way past being pissed off now. I'm not in the plain of lethal flatness either, I'm in a totally different place I don't quite understand; it feels like cynical acceptance and pragmatic management. Anyway, I'm happy to get traction by any means.

One of the things that struck me as I read your post, BBBD, is that like the OP here, I was leaning in hard when this thing happened with WH. I was all in, leaning into the relationship with everything I had, doing my best to be supportive and fully present. I'd actually just made a huge compromise and sacrifice in order for Husband to get what he wanted out of a particular situation- and out of that very thing arose the opportunity to cheat, and he took it. I don't believe that was the original intent, but when it became available, he didn't walk away. He walked toward it.

And that feels like the biggest waving middle finger in my direction in the whole wide world.

Even though it happened years ago (we had a relatively recent DDay#2 in which further details emerged) I honestly don't understand how the man can look at me with a straight face and ask me to feel safe with him now. How does that work?

I'm/we're supposed to be "the reconciliation success story." Husband felt sufficiently remorseful afterwards, confessed (at the time, sort of) and never did it again.

I guess this is the reason why a significant portion of people demand to know *everything,* and why it's recommended that you tell the BS *everything* or as much as the BS wants to know/can handle knowing, at the time of the infidelity. "No repeat incidents" does not necessarily offset the impact of later disclosures. The later disclosures tend to put everything that's happened in between into a different context.

Don't know where I'm going with this except to thank you, BBBD, for putting something that I've been saying for months so succinctly. It had an impact.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:40 PM, March 5th (Tuesday)]

I had a rough day yesterday. I started feeling uncontrollably emotional in the evening. Soul crushing sadness with a touch of anger. I couldn't control myself. Three times I broke down in tears. My WW was home yesterday all day. When I broke down she would come to me and be present. She would apologize for "fucking up." I hated that I was crying in front of her. I couldn't control it.

At one moment when she was sitting quietly beside me while I wept, I asked her "What are you feeling right this second?" She said she "felt empty." I asked what that meant because it wasn't a reply I anticipated. She said she felt like a "shell of a person." I let it go at that but still don't understand where she is.

We spent a good bit of time together after the kids went to sleep. Not much conversation though. Just sitting quietly with each other staring into each others sad faces. It sucked. Her quietness bothered me. I guess I keep expecting her to talk to me. To reassure me and comfort me. I didn't get that from her last night. Perhaps my expectations are off. I feel like I'm having to put my guard back up to maximum strength because I'm not a mind reader.

She's off again today, but we still have a sick child at home so I don't know how much one on one time we will get.

Feeling crushed again. I'm now feeling I shouldn't rush this to the R forum. I'm not ready.

Today, I plan to demand a timeline of the A from her today and that she read the How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair book. It's only 86 pgs. I'm going to tell her she needs to get it read today.

One of the problems with finding out about cheating is that you want to fix things. You want things to go away. You don’t want to feel this badly. The sad thing is you are grieving and grief takes its own time. You can go to therapy, she can go to therapy, and you can go to marriage counseling but nothing is going to fix your grieving until it is done. The best thing you can do for yourself is just simply take not just one day at the time but one hour at a time. Your body is in a fight or flight mode. It does not recognize where this pain is coming from it just wants to leave. What you need to do is get yourself to a doctor and if necessary get on some medication to help you through the next few days or weeks. Don’t become dependent on medicine but do use it if necessary to help you through this.

Is your wife showing any remorse at all? It does not appear as if she is in touch with her own feelings. Here is what you need to think about. What do you want, and how do you want to do it, and how do you want it to go. Focus on yourself. You can’t make her love you. You cannot change her. We all try but we cannot change another person. You can only protect yourself.

Be realistic about what the outcome should be. Remember that this site is for people to survive infidelity. That means mentally. You need to mentally/emotionally be healthy. At this point considering leaving or staying is probably too hard for you to even contemplate. What you need to do is find out just who she is and why she gave herself permission to do what she did.

I missed your post about dr visit and meds.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 9:06 AM, March 5th (Tuesday)]

This is up to you no one else. Don't rush anything.

She said she felt like a "shell of a person."

That actually makes sense. She's built up this big structure of Who She Is (doctor, wife, lover, etc.) that has defined her, and that just got blowtorched off. She should be asking the question "who the fuck am I?" because who she thought she was, some master of the universe in control of everything and beloved by all, doesn't exist.

The question is, does she create a new facade, it does she actually search for the truth. To be determined.

Welcome to the roller coaster, Bahama. Keep taking care of yourself.

Sending strength!

(Bahama))

Just sit with it right now. There isn't another way. You have to process. Do whatever gets you buy right now. It can be very cleansing to cry.

Anger is a funny thing. There is almost always another emotion underneath it. You got through the anger and are letting the despair through.

Keep telling yourself, this too shall pass.

We are here and we are listening if you want to let more out.

Right now you need time to mourn your M as you knew it. Take that time it is part of the process.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 11:44 AM, March 5th (Tuesday)]

Bahama. Sorry you are feeling so low right now.

Your wife may not have the ability to help you heal in a way you deserve. I’m not saying she may not try hard. But she may not have the tools or capability to help you.

Her staring into your eyes and saying nothing is evidence of my point.

I used to wait for my H to be proactive. Say something. Anything. At times it would have been soooo helpful. But he didn’t know what to say. So he said nothing.

And that did not help. Or he said the wrong thing. That did not help either.

Please be patient. If she is trying - but not succeeding - she may need guidance and assistance from you in the beginning on how to help you.

I focused (at times) just on the fact he was trying. That is all I needed to see.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:20 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

you need to show her that it was just an obsession with a 'bad boy alpha' - Always a recipe for disaster. He just used the standard bba techniques - whisper sweet words to get to her body.

Bahama,

We support ya man!!! It sucks, we all know It sucks and we are here to support you through this.

Perhaps my expectations are off. I feel like I'm having to put my guard back up to maximum strength because I'm not a mind reader.

Always trust your gut, plus at this early stage keeping your up is paramount, your WW told you she misses OM and she is most likely going through withdrawal and probably wishes she could just talk to OM one last time and/or even meet him for "closure" (aka one last fuck), that's when A's typically resume and go deeper underground, I'm not saying she's going to do it but make no mistake about it, she probably wishes she could talk to him right now, so yes the level their deception and double betrayal makes it necessary for you to keep your guard up and be on your A game at least for the next 2 years, you are just at the start of a painful journey out of this mess she put you and your family through.

I'm going to recommend a couple of more books, one for you "No More Mr Nice Guy" and one for her "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass (a must read for WS's).

Also try to keep your mind occupied, pick up a hobby and/or hit the gym, it will help you, I'm sending you strength, keep posting, we've all dealt with eating this shit sandwich and the aftermath in one way or another and are here for you.

LivingwithPain:

~You have a pm~

She said she felt like a "shell of a person."

An alternative possible explanation to HouseOfPain's is that she is shellshocked.

How could she have been so stupid to have blown everything up? Her A, her, family, and you.

Now, how she prioritizes this will be telling; is she more sad at the loss of her A, your family, or you? My gut feel is that she is mourning for the loss of her A, as you and your family are still around, whilst her AP is nowhere to be seen. She is most probably still stuck in wayward thinking.

What you should have done on on Monday night, instead of staring wordlessly into each others' sad faces, you should go 180 and do other things.

This staring stuff does nothing for either of you. It just makes her think about her what she is losing (her AP), and you thinking about what a fuckup this whole situation is. You know it is screwed up, so don't dwell too much on that, and get into a self-pity spiral.

If a situation like that arise again, get doing something instead. This will put you in a position of strength and help you regain your own 'self'. It will also show your WW that she is losing you also, and not just her precious AP.

By getting up and doing other things instead of sitting down, it also shows that you can do without her. This may help shake her out of her unicorn/rainbows dreaming.

An alternative possible explanation to HouseOfPain's is that she is shellshocked.

I’m with you on that. Just didn’t say it as cleanly.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:21 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

I can breath again as a small turn has happened. I'm still in pain. I'm still grieving. Things are not sunshine and roses and I don't expect they will be until a good bit more time and healing conversation can take place. I feel a little more safe today. I'm no longer treading water and just trying to keep my face in the air. I have a little something to help me float now.

Yesterday I sat in our sun room with my thoughts and feelings while my WW got some needed sleep. My thoughts were everywhere and I still felt overwhelmed and out of control of myself. She woke up and checked on me. I could tell she was worried about me. I told her my thoughts were consuming me and that I was going to take some time to write them down in an effort to organize my head. I then spent two hours in my office doing just that.

The end result was a four page letter to her. It was a letter that put it all out there. I explained how I felt. The fear, hurt, and anger were all explained. I explained my feelings in soul crushing detail.

I gave her demands. I told her I needed to know more about what had happened with her AP. The holes in our history needed to be filled in no matter how painful it was going to be for me or for her. I told her I wanted all the details of the A. I wanted to know how it developed before it went physical. When it did turn physical, I was most concerned with the first time it got physical. I told her I needed the full story with all the painful details. I asked for less that the physical details, I wanted to know her feelings. Feelings before, during, after, after returning home to me and the girls needed to be shared. I asked for answers to how and why it continued. I called her out on the fact it would still be going on if I hadn't found out and confronted her. I expressed brutal anger that she chose to do this instead of deal with any underlying justifications she may have with our marriage or herself. I made clear that this was not an accident or mistake, but a conscious action(s) taken by her alone without me. I explained that I didn't know if I could ever truly get past all this betrayal. I asked for the timeline and I told her I needed it immediately.

I asked why she thought it was appropriate to have an affair. I asked her why she says she now wants to save our marriage and reconcile. I needed to know in detail how she could suddenly have this change in heart with me.

I asked her to explain how I shouldn't see myself as plan B. I asked about the letter she had written to her AP saying she would have divorced me already if it wasn't for the kids and her not wanting to feel like a failure. I told her I believed all the words I had found. All the words I wasn't suppose to see. I asked how she could say those words just a few weeks ago, and then now say she wants me.

I asked her about the "decision tree" for the affair. I told her I needed to full story behind it and everything that was ever discussed related to the A with her AP. I called her out on just how fucking cold that was to reduce the idea of destroying two families with a little box to select.

I told her that at some point she will need to make some apologies. To me, over and over, and not just with words but with actions. Also to our families and even the OBS.

I told her my expectations with NC and that any contact, even a sighting on the road of each others vehicles needed to be told to me. Accidental and any attempts at purposeful encounter must be told immediately. While not necessary I explained the damage that would be added should I find out she had had contact and not told me. I told her I would be watching her and she should expect that from now on.

I told her that I'm in crisis with this. I let her know that while she may want to jump into fixing issues we had in our marriage, that that stuff was going to be secondary to me getting to a point that I'm sure we can even still have a marriage together. I told her I was strong and no matter what that I was going to have an awesome life ahead. I expressed regret for crying in front of her and told her not to confuse my tears with weakness. I told her I didn't feel safe with her.

I suggested she write out her options as I worked through mine. I told her she basically had two. The first was to do the work to reconcile and truly commit to trying to save the marriage. I asked her to write out what that would entail. I also told her to explore option two which was divorce. I wanted her to think through how our world would change with both these options.

I also thanked her for what she's done so far. But told her it wasn't near enough yet to begin to fix this. I expressed a thread of hope for us. I suggested she take some time for confession and for introspection.

I took this letter and I also printed the plain text from the What Every Wayward Spouse Needs to Know article. (I concealed it's source) I gave it to here and forewarned her it was going to be a painful read. I then put a coat on our four year old and left our house for a couple hours.

I returned to a wreck of a wife. Tearfully she approached me, asked me not to hate her and said she had written me a letter and left it upstairs. I about lost it from terror as I didn't know if it was going to be a "let's divorce" letter, or if it was going to be something positive.

It was six pages long. She told me the story of how this had all happened. Yes, some of it read like justification, but she always followed up those expressions with a statement that she's not trying to make excuses and takes full responsibility for her own actions. She expressed how selfish she was being. She presented me with her feelings. Much of it negative towards herself. She without blame shifting to me, tried to understand the conditions and feelings that lead her to the A.

She told me it was inappropriate well before it turned physical. I understood what she said. She told me the story of the first time it became physical. How her AP suddenly pulled her close to him and kissed her. (this matches the story from the OBS) She explained the battle between the guilt and the need for connection.

She didn't give me exact dates and honestly I'm not sure I need them. She says that the sex was only on occasion and that a lot of what she got from the A was the connection and friendship. She says the final time they has sex was on 2/21, one day prior to my D-Day. She provided me with the history to my satisfaction at this time.

She said the decision tree was drawn up by her AP almost as a joke between them because despite what they were doing, they were both battling guilt. They knew it was wrong, but for whatever reason couldn't stop because it was making them happy. She says they talked about the decision tree and that the option to leave their families was always forcefully rejected. They were trying to move back to just being friends and training together but occasionally got pulled back into bed.

She says she didn't love him. She said she cared for him and wanted him to be happy just as spending time with him had made her happy. She said the sex was just sex and she never felt connected to him. It felt foreign and was just an escape to feel good, not to feel love or connecting with him.

She said she knew she would be caught. That she almost needed to be caught because the guilt was killing her. She explained how she hadn't been sleeping or eating and was losing weight rapidly. These are things I saw. She said she felt like a failure in life because of this. That she was a horrible and evil person who has thrown it all away. That she is not worthy of love from me or anyone else now. That she is worthless and that she could see and understand if I never wanted to be with her again.

She explained how I'm not plan B and that she came to that realization in the attorneys office. His questions about our relationship had hit home just how good a husband and father I am. It helped her see that she was the problem and that she had created the situation all by herself. She said she felt a tremendous amount of self hate for what she has done and now suddenly realized that I am not the problem. She said she is desperate to not lose me but would understand if she has.

She then expressed her desire to do anything and everything she can to try to reconcile and help us. She worried that it was too late and that I was gone. That it was all gone and she had thrown it all away. She showed true remorse. I have no doubt now that she understands the situation.

She begged for my forgiveness.

This letter led to more tears and discussion. I feel that we've turned a corner. I'm leaving some doubt in place for her. I don't want to give up my control while I'm still dealing with this pain. However, I've felt better today than any other since D-Day. I'm not healed. It's going to take time. We are not back to normal by any stretch of the imagination. But we are at least in the ballpark of some hope.

One day at a time.

That's an encouraging update. You're making a lot of progress in how you're handling this and her. Keep holding her accountable and keep a close eye on her actions.