SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yes, Robin, you've apparently missed a ton.

Start with the fact that your sarcastic and vitriolic digs don't help anyone on this site.

And if you've been around for a while, you might have read a dozen or so explicit case studies from WWs on this site that provide a serious amount of anecdotal validation to the fact that MARRIED women will give anything to their APs and guess what, the APs KNEW that.

So do your best to belittle. Do your best to insult. Throw that sarcasm all over the place.

And then tell us how that helps.

I don't think many women have been "friendzoned".

Of course we get friendzoned. We don't post memes about it; we learn self-improvement skills so the next guy we like might value us. Or we learn to enjoy our lives on our own.

(Partial sarcasm - I still believe there are a lot fewer differences amongst the genders than we like to imagine. Pretty sure some women post memes too, while some women and men do something different).

Seriously, what is with the gender generalizations here?

There is a lot of vitriol on this thread but I don't believe any of it coming from me. Who have I insulted? I've been belittled and called it out. I've been told I'm illogical and just plain wrong (for expressing my opinions?) and I've ignored it.

Sarcasm I'll own. It's a fault of mine and I apologise for it.

How does it help? About as much as the rest of this thread does. If you're looking for men-only opinions perhaps a better place would be the men only thread on ICR.

And if you've been around for a while, you might have read a dozen or so explicit case studies from WWs on this site that provide a serious amount of anecdotal validation to the fact that MARRIED women will give anything to their APs and guess what, the APs KNEW that.

T/J perhaps...but why is this do you suppose?

serious question btw

[This message edited by marchmadness at 11:36 AM, February 16th (Friday)]

No one ever knocked women as easy. And it’s just as simple as, if youndonfor the AP why you refused the BS, who wins? The AP, who gets the feeling of adoration and sexual pleasure? The AP. Who gets the shaft after years of faithful loyal love and sacrifice? The BS. And that’s just ok because nothing anyone here has said in defense of how horrid this is, has any validity. Because the WS is broken, or the blowjobs aren’t about you, or some other deference that doesn’t address the core issue.

Oh well, it’s jist going to be unfortunate how many WS read this, form an opinion, and watch the person they purport to love walk out the door. Maybe for the best though, for everyone. The BS get a better person for their needs, the WS can enjoy their new single life they sorely deserve, and have autonomy over whatever they want.

Hey, reallyscrewedup7, Robin is entitled to her opinion just as you are yours. Do you think your post has helped anyone?

And, I happen to agree with you Robin. And, it seems it is even worse than just "women are easy" it is

a lot of men who do this target married women because they are "easier".

It comes down to the original post by the OP. Is this "Ultimate Advice or agenda?"

It comes down to the original post by the OP. Is this "Ultimate Advice or agenda?"

Neither. Its just advice. Agree or don't. Up to you.

This entire thread is a great example of why betrayed mens have their own clubhouse in ICR.

The only thing I've come to understand is that women use their sexuality to get what they want from who they want.

It's a complete power grab in the relationship. To deny your H sex, a sexual act you gave to someone else is completely unacceptable.

Yes, a woman can do whatever they want and shouldn't be coerced. If they want to save their relationship they need to stop using sex as a weapon or as a tool of manipulation. That's not how healthy sexual relationships work.

Maybe it's just my WW that's messed up and no other women "use sex to get what they want" as my WW recently told me. She said women have been doing this since the beginning of humanity.

[This message edited by skins21 at 11:58 AM, February 16th (Friday)]

Oh well, it’s jist going to be unfortunate how many WS read this, form an opinion, and watch the person they purport to love walk out the door. Maybe for the best though, for everyone. The BS get a better person for their needs, the WS can enjoy their new single life they sorely deserve, and have autonomy over whatever they want.

And that's the real problem. The way to heal a BH is not, for most husbands, to explain to them why the AP got things they didn't and never will. Maybe it should be, but it's not. And wishing is was different simply will not change that for many BH's.

And, I happen to agree with you Robin. And, it seems it is even worse than just "women are easy" it is

a lot of men who do this target married women because they are "easier".

Because they do. I'm not implying that is right (I think it's awful), I'm not saying these women are bad people (they are doing bad things, however), but there are at least some male APs out there who do, in fact, target married women because they find it easier to sleep with them than single women.

And they know married women won't tell anyone for fear of the consequences. My WW AP targeted only married women in the office for that very reason.

My WW AP targeted only married women in the office for that very reason.

As did mine.

Maybe it's just my WW that's messed up and no other women "use sex to get what they want" as my WW recently told me. She said women have been doing this since the beginning of humanity.

Principle of least interest. Whoever cares less has the most power. And, in general, women care less about sex than men do; hence, yes, it's been something that's been happening from the beginning of time and will continue to happen until men no longer desire sex with women more than women desire it with them.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 12:07 PM, February 16th (Friday)]

The only thing I've come to understand is that women use their sexuality to get what they want from who they want.

Well, skins21, your wife is mistaken. There are plenty of women who enjoy sex just as it is, without having some ulterior motive. Sometimes we're shamed for enjoying sex or told it's not ladylike to enjoy certain things, and so we censor ourselves. But there are plenty of us who see it as genuinely enjoyable. If your wife sees sex as transactional rather than as something fun and bonding you do together, then maybe it's time to consider D, so you can find someone who you connect with.

On another note... This wouldn't be the wrong time to offer folks Gerbil Milanos and milk, would it?

[This message edited by silverhopes at 12:18 PM, February 16th (Friday)]

I started a post but lost internet connection and

all was lost. For the better for reflecting I have

a redo.

Sex between husband and wife: They agree what they

will do and will not do. What was done in previous

relationships should not be revealed. Retro active

jealousy is a cancer.

A BW said: if there was something her WH got from

the OW that she never did with her WH well her WH

is not getting it from her now after the affair.

Which is to be expected and fair.

I say the same goes for the BH. WW would not do

anal before the affair and not wants anal from

her BH it after her affair because she did it

with the OM. BH it not expected to change and

now be ok with anal.

However when a WW does things with her OM that

she had never did with her BH and now refuses to

do them for her BH she is not only being unjust

she is sending a message.

The OM deserved the porn star sex because the

OM is an alpha male. Denying her BH she is

telling her BH that he will only get to do the

sex acts that she is willing to allow him.

For he is just the beta male that gets duty sex

because he gives her his pay.

My husband's AP targeted married men. She also used the spouse 'withholding sex' argument as justification for her actions.

What does that tell me about all men? Nothing.

What does it tell me about all women? Nothing.

Old truck- as direct and even perhaps assumtion based your post is, it is the mentality the BH feels. Any WW or frankly any woman could argue a million different reasons how that’s not true, but the reality of anything in life is, look at the evidence. If t looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.

In a way, I think we use these terms here, fog, kibbles, broken, rose glasses, unicorn land, to deflect the pain from staring at the truth of the matter. Kibbles= excitement. Fog= desire rose glasses= comparison unicorn land= greener pastures etc. it sucks to be second place, or honestly, have no place on the podium at all. It sucks more to feel like someone bested you or is better than you and stoke your spouse, it sucks the MOST to be told that your needs to even give the WW a second chance are cruel, forceful, coercsive etc.

I think the best advice logically we could give and BS is just roll over and take your lashing, not just in infidelity but in life, because the AP deserves the attention, the perks, the glory, and the BS deserves to lose and accept loss, because they mustn’t offend anyone or they aren’t a good person with integrity .... meh sarcasm fully intended.

Next time someone takes advantage of me maybe I will let them, because then my conscious will be clear lol

[This message edited by nicenomore at 12:30 PM, February 16th (Friday)]

The only thing I've come to understand is that women use their sexuality to get what they want from who they want.

Yeah, this is where I jump to the women's side I guess. This is just a silly generalization. While I don't want to be hurt again, and I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to be vulnerable in a relationship while still protecting myself, I refuse to go on board with an "every woman" comment like this. All women probably could use sex to get what they want, but they don't. It's the damaged and broken ones that do, and it's the damaged and broken women that have affected the men who are posting on this thread. This is probably why you are getting a one-sided view of this issue, we're all telling you what the shore looks like from the same boat.

I get no less upset when a BW generalizes "all men are pigs" that I see from time to time on SI. I am pretty damaged from the way my marriage went, but I refuse to put all women in the same group as my WW.

In an attempt to try to make this more of a discussion and less of a fight...

Women, can't you admit that there may be some very valid feelings that we are trying to communicate here that you can't and won't understand? That in this instance, the average man might feel differently than the average woman?

If a sexual requirement in R is coercion, why isn't transparency? I will clarify... If you are saying requiring sex under threat of divorce is coercion, why isn't requiring transparency under threat of divorce also coercion? Or a full timeline?

I really want actual answers to these questions. I am a reasonable guy, convince just me. Because from where I sit, every boring hour I spent sitting at a desk supporting my wife was stolen from me. Every meeting that I was in, promotions I worked for, was all shit on when she showed me in no uncertain terms that she didn't value the work that I did, or the type of man that I was.

One more important note, my divorce is final as of today. I have no idea how to find a reasonable sexually and emotionally fulfilling relationship. I have been seriously damaged and invalidated sexually. I can tell you though, that while I am not entitled to sex, I wouldn't enter a relationship with someone that didn't have the same priorities as me in that area. Isn't saying I wouldn't enter a relationship without a certain expectation of sexual intimacy the same as saying I would end a marriage for the same reason?

Skins wife is not mistaken.

That women also enjoy sex and also like to have sex just because it's fun doesn't mean it's not a great way to get what women want from men.

My husband's AP targeted married men. She also used the spouse 'withholding sex' argument as justification for her actions.

What does that tell me about all men? Nothing.

What does it tell me about all women? Nothing.

Robin, I completely agree with you. Once someone says "all men" or "all women" I just move on to the next comment.

SMS, ReliantRobin, silverhopes, thank you for posting and sharing your points of view. I don't honestly think that how I feel and what you've acknowledged is so far apart. Maybe I am just not sure how to fix something that feels so broken.

[This message edited by xhz700 at 12:38 PM, February 16th (Friday)]

That women also enjoy sex and also like to have sex just because it's fun doesn't mean it's not a great way to get what women want from men.

All women? Or just some women? Or rather - some people rather than all people?

Skins wife is not mistaken.

She might be speaking the truth about herself, but she doesn't speak for all women. I'm a woman. I talk to other women. I think I know what I'm talking about.

I think this conversation is somewhat crippled by having primarily BWs discussing their views on this with BHs. It could be viewed as instructive how different many of the responses are though. In any event, the BWs are obviously free to pursue reconciliation under whatever terms they deem necessary. (and their WH is free to decline those terms)

The second problem is the fact that some are viewing this as an opportunity to assert women's rights, whereas the BHs are simply expressing what they need in order to reconcile with the woman who chose to exercise her rights with another man.

These two things have some interplay (and that may be particularly true with women who have endured sexual abuse or otherwise have issues relating to sex from trauma or disfunction), but ultimately it comes down to both parties having rights. Each is free to exercise theirs.

If I were a WW, I would probably give some weight to the message that almost every guy on this thread has tried to send, but ultimately they will have to decide for themselves... as will their BH.