SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm going to chime in again. D her at all costs. Get on with your life.

I'm saying this from personal experience and the realization that my WH was way worse than I ever expected. The realizations came after his death. I think in time as you reflect, you also will begin to find this to be true about your WW.

My WH made lots of promises but only did enough to get by. Didn't do the work to make himself a safe partner. He made my life an emotionally living hell. I even encouraged him to come on SI to the wayward side to get help but he couldn't because then he would have had to admit who he really was. He didn't want that.

Underneath his tough exterior was a pussy (sorry for my language but this is who he was). And now that he is gone, I'm left with a lot of unnecessary hurt and emotional pain to work through.

If you stay, continue to expect a life of misery. The trust for your WW is 1000% gone. No matter what she does to prove to you that "maybe", just maybe she will be safe again... the answer will always be the same. Her behaviors started 6 years ago. She isn't worth your effort.

Not all relationships are meant to be forever.

AH, every single one of us who were betrayed felt useless, powerless, gutted, discarded and weak many times in our journey since D-day. Even the ones who put up the bravest faces and in some cases especially us behind a mask of brevity.

You are human and you are being put through possibly the most traumatic experience you will ever have to face.

We understand your feeling of weakness, because we, each of us have felt it ourselves.

This too shall pass, not without leaving scars, but the heart-wrenching torture does end.

Strength to you AH.

Nothing wrong with processing your emotions . Frankly this is why you should let your lawyers deal with your wife and get out quickly .

If you dont give her what she wants she will try to destroy you thats just her nature

She can run circles around you and she knows how to gut you through your kids the longer you give her time the worse it will get

You asked your daughter to be nice to her mum How did the wife repay you ? By weaponizing your son

Buddy you are in a burning building with a process predator please get out ,

Get a lawyer and stop engaging with her asap

Little miss helpless is far from it , that tulip is probably a gang tattoo ( i am jking on this one)

Feel better

You need to file ASAP.

She is seriously manipulating the situation in any possible way that she can.

Tell her to keep the F'ing kids out of it, and you need to do the same, while he is your son, he is also your employee (if he didn't really quit). So you need to treat him as such. It may actually be for the best that he does quit now. Let him find another job. He will be fine.

(((AH)))

I' fucking sad, I feel weak. I am weak .

AH you are a true prize, a man with integrity. No matter what you decide to do you will come out the other side with the core of who you are, even stronger.

No one gave you the manual for having your wife, the person you were expecting to "have your back" betray you. The manual is available on a furnace today.

This shit hurts real bad for a long time. You will have many days that just hurt. This should have never happened, you didn't deserve to be dealing with it.

I spent the winter in my very remote cabin, without a car, no phone, no electricity, just a rifle and a chain saw, to get away. Turned the shit into the best winter of my life.

Cry, feel like shit today it is part of the grief.

Crying with you,

Organic2003

(((AH)))

PS Find a way to save your business, I think it will help you maintain some stability and pride. I have many thoughts on this, too many to list.

(((AH guy)))

Sending you love amd strength.

Let out your emotions, it's normal and totally ok. You are not weak. You are strong.

Just bear in mind that your wife just hit you with a double punch- manipulating you by using your son, and then almost demanding that you be the KISA. Honestly "you arent looking for solutions"?!?!?!?! Seriously. These are her despicable actions you are not responsible for looking for solutions. She is using KISA against you and she knows it makes you feel badly. That is likely what is triggering your emotions of feeling like a failure. She also knows how to leverage her relationship with your son amd that you have the lesser bond with him. If you blow up at him that with strengthen her relationship with him again and make you the bad guy..so very manipulative..chin up AH guy, stay the course.

AHGuy, this is still pretty early in an explosive process. Your son is young and, as you put it, a spoiled mama's boy. He needs to learn to handle adversity. If he cannot, how will he handle a business? He needs to learn to be a man. And at his age, it's high time to do so. If he quits, he quits. Just because he's the heir apparent, doesn't allow him to have special treatment other workers don't have. Otherwise, they will have no respect for him. Tough spot, but maybe a sharp kick in the ass will do him good.

Brother you are not weak. You're very strong. I wish I had been half this strong after I found out.

That's first and foremost. You are not weak. You will get through this.

Let me offer a few additional thoughts:

1. I've been firm in my responses up to this point, but I've held back from being unnecessarily harsh toward your WW, namecalling and the like. I've told you to keep the ideas of forgiveness and R/D separate. I've also told you there's no need to be cruel toward her. But now I'm going to stop holding back from here on out. Don't lose your cool, don't do anything you would be ashamed of later, keep your values intact ... but PROTECT YOURSELF.

2. You need to protect your sanity, your physical health and really remove yourself from this woman. She is unsafe at any speed. She's a narcissist and a manipulator. She has abused you. Get away from this woman for your own sake. Stay civil but firm. I think you need to go beyond 180 and into gray rock mode.

3. I hope you have a VAR you're carrying around in your pocket. If not, get one immediately. Please, for the love of Mike, do this. Your WW seems like exactly the kind of woman who would concoct a fake domestic violence charge against you.

4. You've already talked to your lawyer. Rip the bandaid off and file for D. Your attorney will know what to do to guide you.

5

. I had enough and told her to leave the basement and never come down.

You handled this exactly right. Remain firm. Do not engage. No more lengthy conversations. Gray rock her.

6. You need to think about getting out of that house as quickly as possible. It is not tenable for you to be in that basement and her upstairs. Ask your attorney how this can be handled so you're not giving up property rights -- and then get out. Or if need be, get her an apartment and get her to move out. One or the other. It is messing with your head to be in the house with her.

7.

I went outside and was surprised to see my son still there when he was supposed to be helping in a job site. I asked him what the f he was doing he said he quit.

She manipulated your son and deployed him against you in order to get a reaction -- and she got one. Don't fall for this anymore. She will continue to try to triangulate your children. Let them know what you are up against and stop protecting them. They are adults. Let them know the disrespect and disregard went on for two years. Ask your attorney for the best way to handle, but you need to stop sugarcoating this for them. The next time one of your kids shows up with some pre-programmed script your wife planted, just give them a hug, tell them you love them, but they need to understand how toxic the situation is and that you need to be out of it for your own health and sanity. A great way to say this is "I hope this never happens to you. But if it does, I would recommend you divorce that person and I'll support you no matter what. I hope you'll do the same for me right now." End of discussion.

8

. I went for a long drive and started wondering what my life would look like once I end my business and file for D.

I'm still puzzled as to why the only solution here ends with you blowing up your business, but you would know better than me or anyone on this thread. It seems to be there must be a solution other than ending your business.

That said, let's talk about your life after D:

A. You won't be faced day to day with a manipulative narcissist who spent two years betraying you. Let's start with that. That's a pretty big fucking improvement right there, now isn't it?

B. Being alone is liberating, particularly if "being with someone" is as screwed up and as dysfunctional as the situation you are in now. It is not sad. Start reprogramming your mind around that. You can do pretty much whatever you want whenever you want. You can take short cheap 3-4 day road trips within a 4-8 hour drive of your community. You can camp and enjoy the outdoors. You can do whatever the fuck you want to do. For instance, you can go to Canada and not have some harpy complaining about what a low-rent vacation it is. As a man, you have a practically inborn ability to be alone for long periods if you want -- which is why hermits and mountain men are almost exclusively a male phenomenon the world over.

C. But you won't be alone in any case, so stop telling yourself that script too. You will meet women. In fact, I'd wager that word will get around pretty quickly that you are available. Some might get upset with me for saying this, but it's just a fact that your "market value" as a mid-40s man with a successful business is at a premium, whereas your WW's is not. You will be surprised. You won't need to rush into anything, but you certainly won't be alone. You'll meet plenty of women who will go goo-goo eyes for your aw-shucks routine and will want to do whatever fun activities you like, fishing, camping, whatever. They'll want to do those things WITH you, because they'll want to be with you, because you're a healthy stable strong man. And they'll be drawn to that like moths to a flame. I don't know you at all other than from what you've posted, but I'm certain of this.

In sum, start being a little more selfish and self-interested, AH. Go out and buy yourself a few nice clothes. Start working out some more if you don't already (I recommend Jim Stoppani's size protocol for weights), start focusing on eating a very simple clean high protein, low carb diet with lots of water. Start attending a different church nearby -- frankly you would be better off attending a mega church (I'm not evangelical but there's nothing wrong with these) and joining one of their singles groups. Revive an old hobby you dropped the past 5 years because of all the stress your wife brought into your relationship.

And stop thinking about yourself as a part of a marital partnership. That's not you anymore. Move on. And start moving on quickly with your life.

PS. Just as an aside, I'm going to soon be going on a 4 day trip by MYSELF to a cabin out in a beautiful desert area about 5 hours from where I live. I set this up, made sure my WW agreed it was a shared expense. And I'm excited and feel great about it. I don't feel sad about it at all. I don't feel the need to take anyone with me. I want to be alone. I'm looking forward to reading, hiking and taking photos.

And consider that I'm doing that when the details for my D are far from being worked out, since I'm doing the best I can to make it an amicable parting. I just wanted to share that so you can start thinking differently about "being alone." Yes, you and I have both been used to being married men for a quarter century. So what? There's no need to visualize yourself falling apart over it. You know how to take care of yourself. You know how to enjoy yourself without your wife. So do it!

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:56 PM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

AH,

I chimed in early in your Hellish journey and haven't commented again because I believed she was on her way out and I still believe that was the case when your youngest was ready to leave the nest. She was going to leave and everything you have told us about how she is responding to this just confirms it more for me. The FuckWad had other plans though.

I have to believe that you are being honest about what you are telling us in regards to her responses to you and the situations as they unfold around your family. So how would you answer this....

Is she moving Heaven and earth to heal you and your family?

Everything you tell us here is a definitive no.

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 1:05 PM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

Rage moments are normal and are part of the damage caused by a cheater's actions. This is not your fault.

Your son needs to get his life together anyway. His quitting and working for someone else will force him to grow up. Like you said, he's almost 21 now. Perhaps it's time that you and your WW allow him to become his own man by forcing him out of your house and allowing him to find his own way. He obviously doesn't realize or appreciate how good you've been to him and he's not going to learn gratefulness while under your wing. His behavior is consistent with being spoiled. Hard love is the only thing that will help him to become an actual man.

Allowing yourself to calm down before taking action is wise. Let the heat of the moment pass and then while reflecting, choose your path. You have options still. Continue to take the logical road to freedom.

AH

Your are not weak!!! You are going trowgh one of the most traumática events a person can experience.

It is normal to feel Lost, It is normal to be Lost. Also is normal to change your mind constantly. There is not step by step solucion, you need to find your own way! The posts here are opiniones based on experience but also on incomplete informetion as noone exept you, knows your situacion.

Please notice that some posts are full of anger, others compassion, but all of them are charge with the intention to help you!!!

This place is also for venting!!! As much as you need.

You are not alone on this!!

Keep reading, keep posting, keep educating your self. And take your time!!!

I feel weak. I am weak . I' am easily influenced like if I don't have strong ground to base my decision on. the comments here influence me easily so are her words and when I read Oldlion posts I'm influenced too. why? because I'm weak that's it. let me admit something, I cherry-pick some of the comments here so I can direct the influence. I keep reading Thomus comments over and over so I can eliminate all other influences. is it healthy or right? I don't think so but for a guy like me I'd say fuck it. I'm done.

Be patient with yourself. You just found out six weeks ago, a day less than that actually. Whether we R or D, it's something like 2-5 years to heal. Of course, you're still sad and wobbly. That's completely natural under the circumstances. Although, I do grant you it's really uncomfortable and makes you feel like you're not quite yourself.

And you weren't wrong to start talking with your son. If your WW is telling you that she won't give up the house, that does have a direct effect on your business. You've made it clear to your WW that you're looking to D. You don't have to apologize or feel badly about that. No matter how much a cheater may want to recover the marriage after DDay, they are not owed that opportunity. A cheater effectively ends the marriage the moment they step out of it, and they all KNOW the consequences. While they're cheating though, they just don't believe they care. It's not until after DDay that some of them realize they do. That doesn't mitigate the fact that your WW always knew this could be a consequence.

You've said from the beginning that you believe your WW's cheating is a deal-breaker, and if you're gravitating toward posts which support a D decision, I think it might be your mind's way of reinforcing your will to go through with it. So, let's look at what a "deal-breaker" might mean. For some people, no matter how remorseful their WS is, no matter how many changes that WS is willing/able to make, no matter how perfect their comportment as a recovered WS, the BS just can't look at them the same way anymore. They've lost respect, lost attraction, lost love after the betrayal, and NOTHING the WS says or does can repair their tarnished image. For these BS's, recovery never happens. They might return to the marriage, but there's an underlying revulsion which keeps the WS at arm's length so that emotional intimacy is never restored.

It's early days yet to make an R or D decision, but not if you already KNOW that this was a deal-breaker. If you're flipping a coin and rooting for an outcome when it lands, maybe you already know what it is that you want. People often stay because they can't imagine a life without their WS in it. But if you're the opposite of that, and you can't imagine a life where you have to look at your WS's face every day, maybe that's telling you something.

It sounds to me like you might need another discussion with your WW. What does she mean by "never wanting to live anywhere else". Because if she means she's keeping the house, that means you have to find an alternative on the business. She needs to know that. If she's childishly saying, "okay, you keep everything", that's not an answer that a court of law will tolerate. If you are CLEAR that you want this divorce, call her back to the table to work through the details of settlement. And if she won't do that, you can go back to your attorney and take the tougher stance. It sounds to me like she thinks her "let's try it for a year" proposal is still on the table. If it's not, it's okay to tell her it's not, and that you intend to divorce posthaste. Her choice is whether she wants it the easy way or the hard way.

Yes... this is going to affect your kids and your employees. Just about anything you do at this point is going to do that. Your kids love their mother and they're not equipped to really understand what's happening and why you can't just forgive her. That's normal. But you can no longer live your life to accommodate other people. You won't heal right if you do. Same goes for your employees. People lose jobs and find other ones. That's part of life. You can't plan YOUR life around other people anymore... because you won't heal properly.

If you KNOW that you don't want this marriage anymore, don't feel guilty about that. Like I told you earlier, this is the one time in your life where being self-centered is completely okay... because it SERVES other people. There's nothing worse than a BS taking their WS back and then torturing them for the rest of the marriage. And we do see that sort of thing, believe it or not. In those cases, no one is healing or happy. So, being selfish now results in a happier AHGuy and eventually becomes a positive influence on other relationships.

If you're sure about your D decision, consider calling your WW back to the negotiations table, letting her know in no uncertain terms that this divorce is happening and that you want it to be amicable so that you can plan the settlement together. But, if it has to go the other way, you'll hand it over to your lawyer, liquidate everything, divide the cash, and you'll be on your way to Florida or whatever.

If you're NOT sure about your D decision, let us know and we'll talk about next steps.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 2:54 PM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

AH

First as you've been reminded, this is very early in the process.

Don't feel like you aren't doing well, you are given the severity and the short time frame.

Second, you don't have to make any final decisions at this point, it seems like you want to know exactly what you want and have it done yesterday. That'd be great of course, but impossible.

Take it one day at a time, it is definitely a process.

Again, you've been advised to protect yourself, of course, do that.

Accept your wife's offer to sign everything over to you.

That offer will never come again, especially if she consults an attorney.

I think your only promise should be you will be open to R, once and if you ever feel comfortable doing that.

Start the D process, it can be stopped or slowed all along the way if you deem it appropriate.

If you D, you can then give back to your wife whatever you feel is fair.

If she trusts you, then she can trust you to be fair. She needs to let go now and risk whatever consequences come her way.

I'm sure if you asked her who would an outsider trust to do the right thing in the future between you and her if that person had all the knowledge you two have at this point in time, you would be the pick.

Then, your ducks are lined up, you don't risk losing your house or business and you both can concentrate on healing. Part of her incentive will be you holding her future in your hands.

Ask her to trust you won't betray her as she did you. Can she do it? Part of your decision process.

Best of luck to you and your family

For some people, no matter how remorseful their WS is, no matter how many changes that WS is willing/able to make, no matter how perfect their comportment as a recovered WS...

And this clearly isn't your wife. She's demonstrated all the signs of regret but not remorse. She's blameshifted, manipulated, and triangulated. Now she's bargaining over the house.

It's often said "for some people it's a dealbreaker" - I think a more accurate way to say it would probably be "for just about everyone it is a dealbreaker, and if the WS can pull their head out of their ass quickly enough, maybe there's hope."

Another thing that gets said a lot is "take your time." Well maybe. Or maybe not. Honestly I wish more often people would say "hey dude, come on, there's really not much point in dithering. What are you trying to salvage here?" I think you can take your time if you want, but don't feel pressured into taking a lot of unnecessary time if you feel clear in your heart.

Like I've said in the past, short of a frontal lobotomy, you're always going to remember your wife spent more than 700 days screwing another man and planning her life with him and her exit from you. You're always going to remember she summoned you to fix a heater so she could have sex with her boyfriend.

So let me ask you, AH, do you think it's going to be difficult to "restore emotional intimacy" in the face of that memory?

You bet it is.

Do what's right for you. Be selfish.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:29 PM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

And this clearly isn't your wife

No one's WS is perfect right out of the gate. WS's need time too in order to figure out what went wrong in their values system and why. Some of us decide to hold on through that process and some don't. There's no right or wrong answer on that, but the whole idea that a WS who isn't perfect this close to DDay is incapable of R is wrong.

Mate you're certainly not weak.

I don't post much because i'm not that good at getting my thoughts across and your getting loads of good advice.

But be careful here that you don't end up being manipulated and painted as the bad guy.

If you know you want D then go for it if you're not sure wait till you are.

You're son no disrespect but it's not always a good thing to work for you're father. It could be the best thing for both of you if he got a job working for someone else.

Mate you're certainly not weak.

I don't post much because i'm not that good at getting my thoughts across and your getting loads of good advice.

But be careful here that you don't end up being manipulated and painted as the bad guy.

If you know you want D then go for it if you're not sure wait till you are.

You're son no disrespect but it's not always a good thing to work for you're father. It could be the best thing for both of you if he got a job working for someone else.

I’m sorry you are having a bad day. As others have said, you are NOT weak. You are handling this situation very well, believe it or not. You have a good head on your shoulders and you are doing better than many BS’s that we see, including myself.

As far as your son. I am in my late 30’s, and I have worked for my dad since I was a teenager. Working with parents/children can be a pain in the ass. There have been numerous times where I have wanted to quit, and I suppose there have been times my Dad wished he could fire me. Talk to your son, tell him that you would love for him to continue to work for you and to one day take over the business. Assure him that Mom isn’t going to go after your business in the instance of a D. Also, as long as your son is an employee and heir apparent to the business, your WW is less likely to go after your business in the case of a D. Your son is a man, and he needs to stop being a Mommy’s boy, I agree. He will eventually grow out of that, but she needs to start treating him like an adult too. Also, I would refrain from discussing your WW with your kids anymore. They still need their mother, and it will definitely be in your best interests for them to see you treat her with respect, even though you may not feel any respect towards her.

Is it possible that you can split the property you live on, so that she can keep the house and you keep the barns and other buildings for your business? Perhaps get some kind of easement if you would need to use the driveway? I’m just throwing things out there.

[This message edited by Fenderguy at 4:25 PM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

You are NOT weak. You are NOT stupid, You aren’t Broken. You have integrity. In my business all we have at the end of the day is our honesty, our knowledge, and our integrity. That’s what we are selling, essentially, just like you. You have unique skills that people value. Your business has value. Why? Because of you, AHguy. You built it. You worked hard, you dealt from a position of trust you are NOT STUPID for expecting the same in your personal and professional life. You just didn’t expect the person you trusted the most would turn out this way. Who does?

I hope you read other comments, but it doesn’t surprise me that you don’t. I’m not offended. I haven’t offered much more than support and clarification precisely because people like Thumos are here already. I respect him, and agree with about 90% of what he says. So I’ll just chime in on this:

I'm glad that most of you think I was right to be offended by the heater incident. I was afraid that I was exaggerating by thinking this was the worst of all of it.

AHGuy, I’m sorry, I’ve seen a lot of awful situations on here, but that was one of the worst forms of disrespect. You want to know WHY you likely set a record for maxing out a discussion thread and are on track to doing it again? I suspect it’s this example. I know I found that pretty galvanizing. I suspect every disrespected BS on here made a mental... “oh HELL no!!” when he or she read that. I know I did. However, I’m not going to make this some form of “go get her” knee jerk reaction. I feel like many people may be getting flashbacks by her behavior and I don’t want to sound like that. For the record, my ex was no prize, but she never contemplated something like manipulating me in such a fashion— and she had more than two affairs in ten years. If that helps.

AH you may feel "weak" because you're powerless of controlling certain aspects of this clusterfuck that your wife brought upon you.

Feeling weak and actually being weak are two different things. As others have pointed out you're handling this like a champ.

Hang in there. Only you can determine which road you want to go down. You're not going to figure this all out right now. It's going to take some time.

I know this sounds corny, but be a good friend to yourself. Sounds like you're always putting others first. Now is the time to be selfish and put yourself first