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Little by little... you've had 2 successful days!!

Another 5 bags of garbage out today. I'm almost done her food cupboard. Oldest product today was another can of soup, this one expired in 2005!

Soooo many boxes of foil, plastic wrap, wax paper, freezer bags, sandwich bags - most unopened ... I took another box of donations to Goodwill. Took another load of steel to a steel recycler place, too.

I hope she can see how much money she has wasted all of these years. Just kept on buying stuff she already had.

I peeked into bedroom. I'm scared of that room.

Sack, your Mom reminds me of my father the last several years before he suffered a cerbrovascular stroke. I never wanted to really say to myself the old man had progressed from slightly eccentric to the beginning stage of dementia. But in hindsight, one episode stood out: I had gone shopping in town with him to his favorite discount store, and he loaded the top part of the grocery cart with those air fresheners that have a plastic dome and a scented gel inside.

When we got back to his condo - he was driving his big 4 door sedan like a pro down twisting mountain roads, I might add - he opened the louvered bifold door to his little pantry and sheepishly grinned as he pointed to a shelf that was chock full of the same darn air fresheners, all lined up in neat rows, like a store! He knew he was being silly buying even more of them, but it must have given him some kind of "stocking up out in the country" satisfaction in the moment of purchasing, whenever he was in town, so I just shook my head.

(His mother was born in 1903 and told us stories of riding with her mother in a buckboard wagon 30 miles to town and stocking up for a month. That woman ran a boarding house for lumberjacks in New Hampshire. Maybe he thought she would approve, I told myself at the time.)

But later on, I looked back at that behavior as perhaps a marker for when our dad was starting to slide into a mental condition.

If your Mom is like my Dad was, I would not expect she would somehow "see" the money she has wasted on multiples of the same thing.

Isn't hoarding linked to anxiety about life, in general?

I don't really know the specifics of hoarding. Like a lot of people, I've watched some of the hoarding shows on TV. It seems to me many of them are linked to depression. Quite a few seem to springboard from some big loss - loss of a child, loss of a spouse, loss of a parent.

I know that people who lived through the Depression really value things that they didn't have, and hold onto scraps. My mom didn't live through the Depression. Her parents did, but I didn't really see them having these behaviours. They lived in a tiny 2 bedroom house, and literally didn't have room to hoard or keep much of anything. Maybe that's why she does it? Simply went hog wild with more room than they had?

My mom lived below poverty level, and this is when most of this stuff was bought. I'm not even sure how she was able to accumulate what she did. I'm quite surprised, actually.

You're probably right. She won't "see" it.

Off to send a note to her shopper friend with a list of "absolutely do not buy" items.

I missed Thursday. She called and asked me not to come as she wasn't feeling well. I was back today.

Got another 5 bags of garbage out, and yet another load of steel. Today I am astounded by the amount of cleaning products she has when she has never been interested in cleaning. I found a spin mop head, but I've never seen a spin mop so I ask if she has one. She doesn't think so? I tossed the head, which was new in its packaging but I was cleaning the cupboard under her sink, and she has had some leaking and even new stuff has to go because a lot of it is moldy or just gross. Then I found a completely different mop head, and it wasn't for her Bee mop, which I know she does have. I ask about this mop head - do you have one of these mops? Oh yes, she thinks so. I mean, I don't even know how she produced this mop but from behind her somehow, from behind her freezer/behind her table, she pulls a mop out and sure enough, it's the one that goes with the head. The mop is still in its packaging. Then she says oh, I have the bucket that goes with it. It wasn't the kind of mop that needs any special kind of bucket but she rooted around, again from behind where she was sitting, and pulls out a mop bucket. I swear it was like magic, her pulling stuff from back there. It was a spin mop bucket. I said that bucket doesn't go with this mop, she swore it did. Of course I had to ask why the need for so many mops/heads. She said it seemed like a good deal. Only if you use it, I said....

I started to find so many cutting boards. Turns out she has 6 of them. I can really see why my brother has 12 motorcycles. I keep trying to make the point to her that you only use one at a time. Therefore, you need one.

Then I discovered that her shopper friend just brought her 9 boxes of Ensure. She drinks one a day. Again, when you have a shopper that shops for you every Thursday, why is she stocking up for 8 freaking weeks? So much for my conversation with her shopper.

I know that she spends a ton of time in her bedroom. She goes upstairs right after dinner, by 7 pm, and she often doesn't come down until 10 or so the next morning. She just mindlessly watches every sport on TV that she can find. I asked her today that if she's sitting in her room for all of these hours every night, could you please start looking at your clothes and separate some for donation. She has lost a lot of weight in the past few years. I hit a wall with that one. She doesn't want to part with the "big clothes". She might "need them again some day." As someone who has been up and down myself throughout the years, I do get this one to some extent. I changed my angle, and said surely you must have some you no longer care for, you could start setting those aside for donation. No agreement there. Just started rambling on about how she wondered if a dress has in her closet is now too big, and maybe she could wear it to her friend's birthday BBQ in a couple of weeks. Never mind the fact that I've only ever seen her wear a dress to a wedding, and her friend's birthday BBQ is not exactly a dress-up event. And there's no way she can even get close to her closet yet especially considering that she won't part with anything piled in front of it! Always that huge disconnect with reality.

My husband and I are having lunch with his sisters this week, one of whom works in senior care. We'll have lots to talk about. I've got many questions for her.

Glad to read that you're still going every week and helping your mom. ♥ Is your brother still going as well?

For the clothes that are too big or too small - I would suggest that she separate them out and store them in another area. At least with them out of the way, she can access the clothes that fit and possibly make some decisions on donating some of them.

She won't need any ensure for the next couple of months! Hope that her shopper doesn't buy any more. Can you be asked to see the list prior to the shopper going shopping?

Sending ((virtual hugs))

Sadly I and several people I know have dealt with hoarding and or severely disorganized parents and siblings of all ages.

So many of us have struggled with the waste, unsanitary/ safety issues, and pain of whatever this is that we were dealing with.

You are certainly in our thoughts as you go through this.

Well, I missed a couple of weeks going to my mom's because of a bad cold and then I threw my back out. I went back last week, my back was still iffy, so we just sat at her table and went through grocery bags of stuff she had stuffed under her kitchen table. What a mishmash. A lot of it was junk mail, even more of the Xmas cards, address labels and stuff that charities send all mixed together with tax returns, insurance papers, etc. It wasn't a super productive day but something done.

The day I went last week was the day that her shopper comes, and she was going to take mom to the lab for some bloodwork ordered by the doctor. I was timed to come after that. I let myself in, mom was watching TV in her living room and I was standing in the kitchen looking at her table and noticed a package of bacon. I felt it, it was cool. Obviously something her friend/shopper had brought, and mom just left it on the table, went off to the lab, came home, still didn't put it away and was watching TV. I called out "hey, shouldn't this bacon be in the fridge?" Oh ya, I was just coming to put that away. Sure she was. I handed it to her, and noticed that there were 2 frozen packages of sausages underneath. Sigh.

I was back to feeling well today, and tackled her fridge. I thought when I cleaned her bathroom, I had seen some disgusting stuff but this was pretty awful. It was a repeat of her cupboards with multiple containers of the same stuff. She had 4 jars of horse radish going - all expired, 6 tubs of sour cream - all expired, 6 jars of relish / 4 opened - 3 expired. I found yogurt in there that expired in 2019, and cream cheese / same year. There were 2 produce bags in there with what I would describe as liquid asparagus. Just left in the fridge to rot until it was liquid. Not hidden away in a crisper where it might be forgotten. Both of them were in the door of the fridge, one on top of a pack of cheese. I had to throw away nearly everything in the fridge. Oh, and 3 packs of expired bacon, spoiled lunch meat, several dishes of leftovers. I threw away the dishes and everything. I'm not going to scrape them out, making myself sick. Her one crisper - I don't even know what it began as, but the whole bottom of the crisper was liquid.

I'm so disgusted, and I know in my heart and my head that she is not capable of taking care of herself. This is being proven time and again. I am just having just trouble being the one that pulls the trigger and makes her go into care when she doesn't want to.

I asked her if she had given any further thought to that. She said she had, but hadn't reached a conclusion. She said that if she went to a home of some sort, she wouldn't see me anymore and she wouldn't see my brother. I don't know how she comes to that conclusion. I'd rather visit her in a clean facility of some sort than step in my childhood home which is so disgusting now.

And she said what would happen to my brother's stuff? I just said "not your problem!" I further asked her what do you think would happen to his stuff if you died tomorrow? She didn't answer so I just said it's not staying here! She had to have the cable guy over yesterday as she was having problems with her TV. He had to move my brother's enormous stereo speakers and they were now sitting in front of her couch. We were sitting in there as I was trying to explain her new remote to her, and she said oh, these are your brother's speakers (duh), they belong over there, and pointed across the room. I said you know where his speakers belong? IN HIS HOUSE!

Anyway, she did take some initiative, and sat on a stool in front of her sink while I cleaned the fridge and she washed the shelves and crispers as I took them out. This surprised me a great deal.

4 bags of garbage out today just from her fridge.

Wow. It sounds like a real challenge. My MIL, when in her late 80s, started being weird about food. She put mayonnaise out for a potluck and after 6 hours in a warm house, she scraped it back into the jar. I snuck down at 2am and scooped it out of the jar. And then was VERY careful about what I ate. Thankfully she didn't hoard.

You are a good daughter to be doing this so patiently. I hope your mom starts to see what a mess she has been living in.

I was just messaging with her shopper friend. She tells me that mom is asking for less, and she also said that she is trying to buy the smallest possible jars/containers. I said good, and said that if she asks for 6 of something, please get her one, lie and tell her that's all they had.

Sometimes I think the shopper friend isn't so bright either. I mean, she told me tonight she's buying the smallest quantities but mom had two packs of 18 eggs cartons in the fridge. Oddly enough, not expired! However, what 83 year old woman needs like 28 eggs in the fridge at one time?

I helped my aunt and uncle move to a senior living community. My uncle was unwilling at first, but with the support of my siblings, we were able to move them. Does your mother have a network of friends who are willing to help with practical things and moving? Good to hear it's going well.

No, my mother has no network of friends. She only had a couple of gal pals when I was growing up, and they're both deceased now. Her shopper is a friend that she used to work with, and she is 18 years younger than my mom. She lost her mom and kind of glommed onto mine. I appreciate the things she does for my mom. She is really her only friend.

Mom was an only child so nothing there. Her cousins either live far away or are in assisted living themselves at this point. I can see why it is depressing for many older people when their friends, family and acquaintances are all passing on and/or just aren't capable of much themselves.

I have no kids so no grandkids for her from me to help out. My brother has one, but they are estranged. Mom has a family that lives next door to her who have been friendly to her, and have watched out for her a little, and now they are moving away. Sigh.

I didn't make it to her place this week.

I don’t have any advice for you, I went through the mess my mother left and it’s really really really hard, I know. But I did want to share two little vignettes with you.

A friend of mine moved her mother into assisted-living when she was 97 and then had to set about cleaning out her house. She found a box of celery Jello in the cupboard. Jell-O company quit making it in 1959.

My uncle was never married and lived with my grandmother. After she died, I was trying to help him organize some things. He had piles and piles and piles of old catalog and sale flyers from a company that sold the type of clothes he wore as a logger as well as the various tools and instruments, etc., and, of course, things for deer hunting and fishing, etc. etc. Some of them were 10 years old and he would not let go of any of them. He told me he might want to look up the price of something from years ago. After he died, my uncle, his other brother, ended up having a dumpster brought in

Celery jello! OMG. Thank you for that. ;-)

Celery Jello? I'm old and never heard of that one, but I can just taste it! I bet they made it for all the summer salads the Betty Crocker generation was making, in the years before Air Conditioning. :)

Celery Jello with shredded carrots. Just delightful on a hot summer day.

BTW, she sold it. I think she said $100. So pay attention when clearing stuff out.

[This message edited by josiep at 9:44 AM, Tuesday, August 13th]

As I was reading I thought to myself - I bet that celery jello would be valuable. What a relic! So glad they sold it.
What a great story.

I stayed away for 2 weeks. The fridge was enough for a bit.

Back today. Threw out a 1981 calendar, all of my brother's support payment receipts from 1995, so many utility receipts from the 80's and 90's, MEDICATION from the early 90's - OMG. Well, I didn't throw out the meds - I'm making a bag full to return to a pharmacy and hoping that they will take it.

Got 3 more boxes of stuff off to donations. Got her to part with 2 of her 8 cutting boards.

She questioned me today on the bowls I tossed out while doing the fridge. I do feel a little bad for throwing out bowls, but still holding firm that I wasn't going to make myself sick scraping out leftover food of undetermined ages.

Still fighting with her on the amount of supplies she needs for a week. She had 2 full loaves of bread on the table. She read me her shopping list for tomorrow and it had muffins on it, and she had a full 6-pack of muffins on the table. I don't want to tell her how to eat but that's one for every day essentially until her next shopping day. Is she really going to eat 2 muffins in a day? I don't think so.

Today was her garbage day. By the time I got there, it had been picked up. As soon as I walked into her kitchen, there was a bad smell. Smelled like old salad. She was so happy that I had brought her garbage cans back to the stoop because now she could throw away her garbage. I mean, common sense dictates to me that you add all of the household garbage you have to the outside bin the night BEFORE the pick-up. Sigh.

Such disorganization. I found her old wedding photos and one of the invitations to their wedding in the plates cupboard.

On the plus side, she did thank me today for what I'm doing!

One thing I found today was an Xmas card from my father's mother.

My parents divorced when I was about 7. He was a very absent parent. My mom was kind enough to send school pictures of me and my brother to my paternal grandmother every year, and she sent Xmas cards, birthday cards, etc. That grandmother lived a considerable distance away. We, as children, had almost no contact with her. It'd be like a 4 hour plane ride to visit.

When I was about 15, she was visiting my father's 2nd wife (his AP) and their daughter in our general area. Their marriage didn't last long either. My grandmother asked my mom to meet her there, which I'm sure was super comfortable for my mom (NOT!) and to bring my brother and I so she could see us. My mother was always the bigger person in these situations, and would always do what she thought was best for my brother and I. I will give her that. And she would not keep us away from a grandmother that wanted to see us, even if that grandmother didn't particularly keep in contact much.

Mom took us to my father's AP's place to see our grandmother. It was 45 years ago, but I always remembered her as having little to no actual interest in my brother and I once we were there. Barely spoke to us. And the whole visit she talked about her other grandchildren and how wonderful they all were. Years have gone by, and I've wondered from time to time if I remembered it correctly.

So, I found this Xmas card today and I stole it. Not that I think mom would care. She literally doesn't remember my grandmother's name - I asked her a few years ago when I was doing some Ancestry stuff. The whole note on the inside of the card is exactly as I remembered her visit. All tales of her other grandchildren, their ages, whether they'd be coming for Xmas, whether they were there the year before, and not ONE word asking about my brother and I. I don't think my father fell far from that tree.

I am so thankful for my mom's parents, who continued to support her after her marriage crumbled and who gave my brother and I a wonderful childhood.

Yesterday I threw out the apparently important horde of tortilla wrap bags, found 2 mice nests in her kitchen drawers, got through all of her medications (that she keeps in her kitchen anyway) and found an item that was to be used by April 1961 !!