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please stop spreading this false trope that the 180 is used to end marriages.

I used the 180 to end my marriage. I don't understand why it's wrong to see that it can be used to both salvage OR end marriages. Just because it was designed with one purpose in mind doesn't mean it can't be used (successfully) for other reasons. Detaching from a marriage is the very first step towards divorce anyway. I would say that it's doing a disservice to people here to believe that it's not used for both purposes.

My understanding is that the 180 will not and does not end affairs.

I agree it will never be the reason an affair dies. An affair ends b/c one the cheaters ends it in some way - not b/c the BS told them to end it (I have some experience in that arena).

Think of some affairs like an addiction. In fact in some ways they are. The cheater has to decide to end it - nothing the betrayed can say or do to end the affair.

I was under the impression the 180 was used for a different reason.

I saw the benefits for me immediately after 180 and I really started healing. Though I can't deny the events that have taken place since then that show how strongly this can help wake up a WS. I can see how it can go either way depending ultimately on what the BS wants, and if wanting R depending on if WS is receptive to the 180 and makes changes. Now I'm in this lease and will be working and taking care of children, I'll just continue building my life and see what happens. Either way I'm good and will only accept WW if she pursues me and shows serious changes. I'm not pursuing and not contacting.

As for the communication, this discussion has helped me sort it. I'm fresh in my healing and I am not going to force myself to do anything for her. Pictures are definitely not necessary. And even asking how they are doing is not necessary and is not about logistics. They are always fine, I'm a good dad and take care of them. She'll be back soon and will be in the swing of work and seeing them almost everyday. My communication may change in the future but this is what feels good now. Thanks everyone.

Even the divorce process is the most effective method for R, the 180 cannot be said to be just about ending the marriage.

Especially important for cake eaters to wake up.

In an exit As, there is nothing to be done anyway and it makes BSs detach themselves from WSs.

Or it allows BS to think clearly about whether to stay married or not, even a WS wants R.

All in all, it works in any situation.

A WS who ends her marriage just because BS is applying 180 is not R material anyway.

I used the 180 to end my marriage. I don't understand why it's wrong to see that it can be used to both salvage OR end marriages. Just because it was designed with one purpose in mind doesn't mean it can't be used (successfully) for other reasons.

Correct and agree.. But sisoon was saying it should not be used if you're going to try for R -- and that is false and incorrect, because working toward R is exactly what the originator intended it for. Yes it can be used for both.

Thank you for clarifying, Thumos! I was truly confused and I appreciate your comment.

Then I guess we agree

Thumos is correct in who developed it and why.

A WS who ends her marriage just because BS is applying 180 is not R material anyway.

Exactly!

^ Heavily agree.

Some thoughts.. My WW has me feel so unsafe and put me through so much trauma. This is why I am so averse to send any message to her. I have about 0 trust in her. I just don't know what she might be trying to do to manipulate me in some way. I don't trust that she wouldn't use our children as a tool for manipulation. Really F'ed to feel like this but that's what her actions have done. In time things will get easier but it is very important that I strongly protect myself.

Let her know that the kids are fine and that if she wants to see or speak to them, she can make arrangements in advance for a phone call or video chat. Then leave it that. You don't have to send her any pictures.

IIRC, Weiner-Davis presented the 180 as something that she heard from a patient of hers. The patient said she had given up on her M, forced herself to detach, and was shocked to find that her H came crawling back after she started doing the things on her list. Further, IIRC, Weiner-Davis warned that using it was a last resort and not to expect that it would bring the WS back into the M. I no longer have the book at hand, so I can't verify this.

Where the 180 helps the BS find their strengths and detach, it's helpful. Where it manipulates and lies, it's not helpful, at least IMO.

Relationships are built by Communication and truth and broken by non-communication and untruth.

*****

How has the 180 helped your R?

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:03 PM, July 19th (Monday)]

One word responses is ‘fine’ or ‘satisfactory’. No photos or funny stories. Just satisfactory due to the circumstances.

One day at a time.

Where the 180 helps the BS find their strengths and detach, it's helpful. Where it manipulates and lies, it's not helpful, at least IMO.

Agreed. I always took it as the 180 is for and about the BS only. Whatever happens with the WS is incidental, but the point is for the BS to detach and gain some clarity about the situation. It can lead in either direction, but it stops the pick me dancing.

I always took it as the 180 is for and about the BS only. Whatever happens with the WS is incidental, but the point is for the BS to detach and gain some clarity about the situation. It can lead in either direction, but it stops the pick me dancing.

Ditto. I learned of it here, and this is how it was described to be used. I don't know its true origins, but using it as described above is as good a tool as we have for dealing with infidelity, IMHO.

Is she testing you? How far will you go to meet her needs?

I would do it how I wanted to do it. Maybe decide a schedule. Maybe pictures on Thursday evenings. Once a month. If you even want that.

She gave up telling you how to do things when she cheated. She certainly shouldnt be telling you what she prefers from another country.

These are not mean and cruel things your doing. These are petty things she’s demanding.

Do what you prefer. It’s ok. As long as kids are fine.

She’s criticizing your photos . Really?

Never put in print things that she can use against you. In court or otherwise. Do not engage

This was very hard for me. I had anger. I was hurt. He was cruel and continued to do cruel things. I never responded It made our day in court fast and easy.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 12:33 PM, July 20th (Tuesday)]