SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So much to digest, so many Qs to answer. Is there a way for me to reply to specific posts. New here.

To those who ask about timing of confession, I have to put some blame on 2020. Covid isolation cut us off from our social distractions (travelling, music festivals, camping, fave sports team) and replaced with worry and gloom. My mother died in July, so grief rolls in, our youngest daughter had a battle with her gi system, spent weeks in hospital and cause then unknown, worry through the roof.

WS had an unguarded comment at the end of June, about boss kissing her at a 87 party, but then coming home to me for fun. When I asked hey, how often? She replied about keeping me guessing. She had forgotten about a comment she had made to me, turns out very late in her affair in 88, that she was in love with him and was going with him “if he’d have her”. As she never left, I always guessed that she had been rejected by him. Turns out that was a lie, she felt no love for him, just physical semi chemistry and a boss using his authority for his selfish reasons on a young wife/employee.

So the 2020 confession was not offered freely, i became obsessed and asked a 100 questions. She confessed with great reluctance. Her reasons for the looooooooong secret? Why provoke me and risk abandonment? Why hurt me? Why confess to something that she only feels remorse, regret and hatred for? That she had made the biggest mistake of her life, had ended it and devoted herself to the husband she had always loved.

She is not my enemy, she is my wife and the love of my life. She had to carry a regret and a guilty shame. She understands that her confession should have been timely. Now she shares her secret with me. With help we hope to resolve our past and build towards our future.

When you post a reply you will see formatting buttons to the left. One of them is a quote button. You can cut and paste excerpts from our posts and then format them as quotes and take them one by one in turn. Or just post one big reply and break it down as a numbered list

She had forgotten about a comment she had made to me, turns out very late in her affair in 88, that she was in love with him and was going with him “if he’d have her”.

I’m puzzled by this. So you knew she was involved with him back in the late ‘80s and she threatened to leave you?

Which means you knew she was having an affair —

And you likely did what we call the “pick me” dance back then.

Were you thinking it had not been physical or you suspected back then it was? Surely as long as it went on you already knew it was physical even then?

This changes things a bit. It sounds more like a massive case of 33 year rugsweeping in which both of you pretended not to know this was out there between you.

And then she lets slip suddenly something about her boss kissing her back then and you press in and the trickle truth becomes a truth flood.

But you already knew three decades ago she’d had an affair with her boss and threatened to leave you.

I don’t ask this to be cruel -- because all of us here know the pain you're in and I don't want to add to it -- but is this woman who cast away her faithfulness to you so early in your new marriage and was prepared to dump you really the “love your life”?

That sounds like a sunk costs fallacy story you’re telling yourself to sanitize this.

I’ve been married to my WW coming up on 25 years. I don’t consider her the love of my life. I used to but not now. Now she’s the woman I spent 25 years with and who is the mother of my children. I’m fond of her and like her company. But we are getting divorced. And there are plenty of other woman who are as compatible with me or more so than her.

I don’t mean to be harsh but you’ve been telling a story to yourself about your wife that isn’t true.

She’s exactly the kind of woman who would sneak around as a relative newlywed, screw her boss multiple times, and then when she got that out of her system come back to hearth and home and happily lie about it for decades.

That’s who she is.

You're going to have to deal with that, whether you R or D.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:34 PM, October 15th (Thursday)]

I always guessed that she had been rejected by him. Turns out that was a lie, she felt no love for him

You have no idea if she loved him or not. You’re relying on the words of a proven liar to inform your assessment!

She threatened to leave you back then - sounds like she loved him to me (or thought she did in the fantasyland she was wrapped up in).

I’ll be blunt: it sounds to me like she did feel she loved him, she was prepared to leave you, and then he did cut the affair short after she probably pressed in on wanting a permanent relationship with him (because it was for him just easy sex, no strings attached and he’d probably done it before — and probably did it after her).

After he cut it off, then she came back to you with her tail tucked between her legs and “resolved” to be a good wife.

She was hoping her boss was plan A and she was going to hypergamously branch swing to him. Plan A crumbled in her hands so she realized she needed to go shore up Plan B.

Plan B was you.

She may have changed her feelings about you over time. But for a while in the late 80s you were plan B. And all this time, as reflected by recent random comment him kissing her, she’s been harboring fond feelings for him.

That’s the love of your life.

The love of your life reserved for herself the unearned “right” to develop a possible alternative relationship with another man, started thinking about how to make it permanent and then decided you were “good enough” but not worth enough for her to be honest with.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:19 AM, October 15th (Thursday)]

It sounds like you are very much wrapped up in a nice guy feedback loop, are pedestalizing her as something noble she is not, and you’re still basically doing a version of the pick me dance.

Given your last comment, there is a high danger you seem to be tempted to continue rugsweeping this just as you already have for three decades (because you must have already known it was a full blown sexual affair before she told you).

It’s maddening isn’t it. I have been there. If you had to pull it out of her, you probably don’t have the full story.

For example, this went on over a year or so, but they only met up 5 times. And she flat out told you she loved him and was ready to leave you. With 5 encounters.

At least she was truthful about one thing, she didn’t tell you because her own self interest was more important than your agency. Better to let you be a chump than face reality.

You are going to go through a lot. And there are times when you will literally hate her. And the only person you can turn to for comfort is the betrayer. And it will gnaw at you that you were denied the choice of staying with her. You will feel every thing has been a lie. You will wonder about a whole lot of events and not know what was really going on.

And of course, there were no consequences to her, then or now.

About the only thing you can do is suck it up if you already decided to keep her in your life.

However, for your own peace of mind, you can demand a polygraph. And you should see a counselor who specializes in grief counseling. Take it for me, you are going to need it.

About the only thing you can do is suck it up if you already decided to keep her in your life.

Just a fair warning that once you learn your wife schemed to have another man’s DNA inside her, your inner Cro Magnon hulking inside your brain will not allow you a moment’s peace if you decide to “suck it up.”

The inner cognitive dissonance civil war inside your mind will be merciless.

you’ll have to work through this and grapple with the reality, get the whole truth and then decide what to do.

You can R or D - but to me it sounds like you have essentially been in a kind of limbo with her for three decades during which a part of you knew the truth and the other part was trying to deny it and white knuckle your marriage.

That’s hellish and no way to live. I suspect that is why you are here. This isn’t a fresh revelation.

It is more like a 2nd or 3rd DDAY.

You knew your wife lied to you and you knew it for a long time. Am I missing something?

It wasn’t a mistake. She took those decisions and she has to take responsibility.

You never knew at the time she was having an affair. She was lying to you and she was good at it. You will now have to assume that she’s an expert liar and that everything you “know” to be true isn’t.

For your healing, I suggest you find out the whole truth before you start the R process. You have to base your decisions on reality, not the fiction that your WW has shown you for the last 33 years.

You never knew at the time she was having an affair.

She had forgotten about a comment she had made to me, turns out very late in her affair in 88, that she was in love with him and was going with him “if he’d have her”. As she never left, I always guessed that she had been rejected by him.

Sounds to me like he knew she was in an affair at the time it was going on back in 87 and 88 — and that he thought she came back to him bc the AP ended things. So it seems as if he’s known it was an affair this whole time but just didn’t know the extent of it.

But he certainly knew at the time she was actively cheating on him that she wanted to leave him.

The “keeping me guessing” remark from her is hard to fathom.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:44 AM, October 15th (Thursday)]

Complication - we travelled throughout England, Europe, Israel from the middle of November 87 to May 1st 88 so I had been with her every day, all day for 5 and a half months.

When in May she made her love statement, I thought it was a crush and I thought it went nowhere. She said one thing, one night, never mentioned him again.

We continued our marriage, I was gentle with her and suspected she had been rejected. It was a topic we never discussed, all else fine. A stonewall situation. So yes, I danced pick me.

To find out that it had been a series of sexual encounters that started prior to our travels and followed our travels was the confession that stunned me.. I might have suspected 1%, years later got 100%

Ok thanks for the clarification.

I’m still puzzled though.

In the past, If my wife had made a comment about loving another man and being willing to leave me for him in just one conversation I would have been devastated (not so much now - now I’d be like “dont let the door hit your ass”).

I would have assumed an emotional affair had taken place if not a physical affair. And I would have been seeking counseling or other intervention for what amounted to a severe marital crisis.

I’m really confused how this got buried and never mentioned again. It sounds like you knew at the time it was more than a “crush.” People don’t go around talking about leaving their spouses over a crush.

But even that would indicate a level of inappropriate contact that would Be a potential marriage ender

I am a big believer in anger if it serves some purpose for the victim ( being able to get out or redraw boundaries ) but negotiating a better deal for your marriage requires you to put the breaks on what are very natural responses

if you are not otherwise in an abusive relationship and your wife makes you feel loved then Id say the best thing for you would be to process what has happened together and forgive her.

Loads of people live in fulfilling marriages without seemingly key ingredients like love ( arranged marriages ) sex or monogamy - if you feel fulfilled by your marriage then thats reason enough to stay .

Anyone who stays or is in R has to consciously decide to not be angry ( easier said that done ) otherwise you are hurting yourself more than her

Meditation prayer exercise gardening gym friends pets books massages ... just keep the focus on yourself and your self love

Mrpls

I’m sure I’ll have more to write later. But to answer this question:

How do I ease the pain?

Thru years of hard work on your part unfortunately. Working thru the new trauma (with a trauma specialist) and figuring out over time what you want and what you can live with.

And to add, if she wants to be a part of that journey, she needs to stand right by your side and be as furious with that version of herself back then as you are. She needs to take all the uninhibited anger and hurt that you throw at her and absolutely agree that she was a “piece of shit” back then who cares only about herself and not you at all.

Even then, rebuilding is not guaranteed. But it will have a chance at Least.

I wish you well.

Welcome, brother. I'm sorry you are here. We could be twins, as my WW "came clean" about her 1989 infidelity 4 years ago. We were engaged at that time, and she relocated to continue grad school at a top-tier university while I remained behind to finish undergrad. I never had a clue, though apparently a couple of bridesmaids in our wedding were fully aware. It's a real mind-fuck finding out decades later, isn't it?

My advice to you is to deal with this head-on, right now. Don't accept any rug-sweeping, "I don't remember" or "That's not who I am anymore" or blame-shifting BS. As far as you are concerned, this happened yesterday and the steps out of infidelity are no different. This is a massive betrayal, made far worse by lying to you every single day for 3 decades. There is no getting around that, and it may end up being a dealbreaker for you, even if you don't want it to be. The Genie will never go back in the bottle.

I wallowed, and the past 4 years have been hell. Questioning everything, not knowing whether any of our life together was based in reality, etc. It certainly wasn't for you and I. We had a huge hole in our marriages that we knew nothing about. What impact has that had over the years? How do we even begin to calculate that?

I had a whole screed written out as to what you can expect if you do not deal with this sooner than later, and I may post that, but the past few months have probably given you a clear preview. Don't let that become your future.

So, your wife told you she loved another man and intended to leave you to be with him if he would have her...and you just didn't follow up on that?

You just let that go?

Butforthegrace, I agree with your assessment. If what happened 33 years ago was a one-time affair and took place as the WW stated, she should have carried the burden of her indiscretion to her grave at this point in time. I am an advocate of full disclosure except in very rare instances. This is one of them. There is likely something else going on with WW. Now that the cat is out of the bag, it is time for a polygraph to see if there have been other affairs and whether the first affair is as described by the WW.

I don't think many SI members are going to say 'It was 33 years ago, so suck it up, and get over it.'

*****

You get through the pain by facing it and letting it flow through and out of your body. You'll probably find a lot of obstacles between letting it in and letting it flow out, and you have to figure out how to remove the obstacles. That's a lot of work. A good IC can help.

What are you doing with the psychologist?

*****

I see my W's A as being about her and her failure, not mine. I've always known she wasn't perfect, after all. The A was a terrible imperfection, but it's in the past. She's changed. By my calculations, I'm better off with her than without her, despite the awful grief, anger, fear, and shame that I felt for the few years following 'd-day' (discovery day). But I'm almost 10 years out, and I've lived for a long time - but not long enough, yet - time, so my perspective is very different from that of most SI members.

My W's A sometimes comes into my mind unbidden, but those memories don't get more intense than annoyances.

Here's the thing: staying/going is a binary choice - 100% one way or the other. The factors that go into the decision, however, probably will show positives and negatives for both options. That means that both choices are less than perfect.

Assuming your W is, in fact, remorseful, you can D, but that may mean giving up the woman you love. You can R, but that means she gets away with her A. You can get some justice, but not without adding to your own pain - but if you're merciful, you still have a lot of pain to deal with.

Since no solution is perfect, I urge you to figure out what you want and go for that.

*****

If you want to stay together - and you don't have to - I urge you not to rug-sweep again. I urge you to work through the feelings you feel now and the feelings you stuffed - suppressed - 33 years ago.

I urge you to figure out what you want in your M and see if your W wants the same things. If she does, and if she has stopped lying, you've got the makings of R, if you want it. If you don't agree on what you want in your M, you've got the makings of a good D.

*****

I suggest reading Things That Every WS Needs to Know - https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250.

If it makes sense to you, I recommend printing it off and asking your W to read it and respond.

My reco, further, is to call it 'something you found on the web.' Keep your membership in SI to yourself; it's a good place to work things out with fellow members. Your W, after all, is probably not objective about her A.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:56 PM, October 15th (Thursday)]

Welcome, brother. I'm sorry you are here. We could be twins, as my WW "came clean" about her 1989 infidelity 4 years ago. We were engaged at that time, and she relocated to continue grad school at a top-tier university while I remained behind to finish undergrad. I never had a clue, though apparently a couple of bridesmaids in our wedding were fully aware. It's a real mind-fuck finding out decades later, isn't it?

Are any of those bridesmaids still in your life?

[This message edited by oldtruck at 1:08 PM, October 15th (Thursday)]

Sisoon lays out an excellent pathway for potential healing. You will have to go through this and not around it. It sucks really bad. I'm sorry. Many of us are still going through it, but I can say I understand much better than I used to right after D-Day the admonition Sisoon has about processing your feelings. You must acknowledge them and deal with them.

Psychologists refer to this process of going through this dark void "liminality." To some extent it will be like an astronaut cast out into deep space. But go through it, not around it.

That's why I half jokingly referred to the Cro Magnon lurking somewhere in your brain. Yes, it's my metaphor, but I'm fond of it. I have found my own Cro Magnon homunculus is really smart (after all, while we're sticking with the metaphor here, he invented fire).

He has a visceral reaction to this stuff. He won't allow you a moment's peace if you try to push this away or rug sweep. You have to confront this head on. It's the only way.

It's pretty clear that you engaged in at least some form of what we call rugsweeping with this 33 years ago -- when your wife delivered the gobsmacking news to you that she loved another man (her boss) and was prepared to leave you for him. All he had to do was wave his pinky finger and she would have been gone. You knew all of that at the time, but you told yourself it was some kind of harmless crush. It wasn't.

Now you have an opportunity as horrible and painful as it is to have a reckoning with the truth. In addition to working on processing your feelings with a individual counselor, you should really consider the list of tangible action steps I outlined on page 1 of this thread. You don't have to do them, but they are there for you to consider -- and they will get at the truth, which is what you really need to make an informed decision about YOUR LIFE.

On that note, I'd encourage you think about something else: If I had a time machine and sent you back to 1988 now and you could warn your younger self that your WW was about to tell you she was in love with another man and prepared to leave you for him -- and that she'd already slept with him multiple times in various secret trysts ... how would you younger self react?

Yes, it's a little bit woulda coulda shoulda to ask this question, but it's still worth asking: Would you moon about how this woman was the love of your life?

At that point you hadn't even had children with her yet -- and I assume you were still in essence newlyweds, yet here was your WW already besmirching your honor, taking you for granted and shattering your vows.

(incidentally I am torn on the advice to DNA test your kids - after all, they are your kids now, but in the case of the one born in 1990 at the very least I would probably want to know. As someone pointed out, the proximity in timing is a bit uncomfortable).

I think it makes sense to ask these kinds of questions, and in any case your brain is probably already offering up precisely these kinds of queries for you to think about.

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:55 PM, October 15th (Thursday)]

Boy that is a gut shot alright. One cannot escape the conclusion that during the trip she was counting the minutes to get back to her betrayal.

Irrespective of that, she did go back and told you she loved him. Was she back at work or was she going out of her way to contact him?

Now of course, she either doesn't remember that part or is saying she secretly hated him.

There is so much more to unpack here.

Hence, I reiterate the need for grief counselling and a polygraph.

And I hate to say it, but I now agree with the suggestion of DNAing your oldest. Sorry man!