SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So, I talked to a friend who would know these things.

They have a ton more arrests to make for the massage parlor sting & have not released the names of the men who were caught closest to my area.

I feel so anxious I'm sick. This is as stressful and distressing for me as another D-Day.

I was thinking about you this morning. Wh was reading an article and they released a picture of one of the men WITH HIS WIFE. Man, that poor woman.

what do you wish your SA would do? What changes/work do you wish you were seeing?

I wish he would:

1. Admit he is a sex addict. (He doesn't accept "labels")

2. Do the work for his class. There are various worksheets and things they are supposed to do weekly. He doesn't.

3. Do check ins with me and be open and honest about recovery. He said he would; still doesn't.

4. Not be so defensive, it's all the time, even over little things.

5. Continually work on himself and try to improve self.

6. Learn how to be empathetic.

7. Learn how to be emotionally intimate.

8. Generally, just be someone else entirely.

Last night I did a little experiment. I don't know what this means. After I got out of the bath, I went to our bedroom where he was on his phone (not doing anything inappropriate). I put on my underthings and proceeded to put on lotion. I made it take a really long time, and tried to do it in a mildly sexy way without being obvious about it. I didn't want him to think I was trying to seduce him because I definitely was NOT. I positioned myself in such a way that I could covertly watch him in the mirror. He barely glanced at me twice. This doesn't seem like a normal reaction does it? Maybe it's because we haven't had sex in a long time and he knows I am not interested. But you would think he would at least want to look at his nearly naked wife. But apparently not. In a way I am insulted but then in a way it's just another bit of proof that this isn't going to work. This type of behavior was common when he was in the deepest of his addiction. Which he isn't, unless he has a burner phone. I am really really tired of all of this! Overthinking this, second guessing that, wondering .....

Lifeexploded,

I understand that you are hurt by you H showing little interest in you when you are feeling and looking sexy.. I lived through that for approximately 15 years. It feels like nothing but rejection and after D day must make you suspicious of his possible activities outside of the marriage.

Keep in mind though that you have made it clear to him that you are not interested in him sexually presently.

He may feel it is inappropriate to show interest or even express it.

While I am certainly not in our WH’side, I do understand that they probably feel that they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. My H has pointed that out to me about other things. Feeling that he can’t do anything right anymore, not in a whiny way but more in a “please tell me what you want” and I’ll do it way! The problem is, I am all over the map when it comes to what I want and don’t want and he’s trying to follow me.

Keep doing what you’re doing but do it for yourself. Take the long bath, use your fragrant lotion, buy whatever clothes you are comfortable with but do it for YOU.

I have stopped looking for approval and attention from

My H. I am burned out trying to make myself feel and loook attractive to him. If he feels I am, that’s great and if not, I’m ok with it. I also no longer compare myself to the prostitutes be frequented for so many years. He saw them for many reasons and most were not because he was attracted to them. I can never compete with women who provide sex professionally and I don’t care anymore.

Love yourself, love your body, love your honest life.

If he can’t see the prize before him, he is sorely missing out.

Lifexploded..

I giggled at your post.

When DH and I were dating, once I showed up at his apartment door, half naked. I mean, when your girlfriend shows up at the door in a skirt and bra, you get busy...you don't invite her in and go back to doing the dishes. And then when questioned about it you don't say "But, I wasn't thinking about sex. I was focusing on the dishes!"

I look at that now, and understand that that behavior and others is just that he's emotionally/sexually stunted. Recently, within the past few weeks, I asked DH to make a suggestion of what he'd like to do to me. He was speechless.

I don't take it personally. (Now, I wish I could get there with the lack of empathy..but I can't..and it kills me.)

My husband now errs on the side of not initiating anything, because he doesn't want to make me uncomfortable. Whether it's looking at me or initiating sex. He just doesn't. While I appreciate that he does not want to make me feel pressured, or have any other negative feelings associated with the physical stuff, it's still sort of gutless. I mean...it's not that hard to communicate with me. But, that would require intimate/vulnerable communication, which DH is not ready for/capable of yet.

Back in the before D-Day days, when he was clearly avoiding sex with me, or couldn't finish leaving both of us frustrated, (a form of impotence btw) or he'd treat me like a dog turd the day after we'd have sex, I was determined to fix things. I was 105 lbs, big boobs as I've mentioned, in vg shape for a 50 something regular gym goer, I went to Macy's, bought VERY sexy undies (very uncomfortable btw) I put them on, spritzed perfume and walked through the bedroom as though I was looking for something. He asked me to move because I was blocking the tv.

In other dysfunction, he told me I was hot while I was dressing for my mother's funeral. I don't get it.

Lionne-

It is definitely a 'thing' for SA to be not interested in their wives, no matter how beautiful/skilled etc. We are 'ok/safe/normal/expected'...they have to find risky, illegal, dangerous, taboo, illicit. And try as we may- we will never be that.

And is it wrong I giggled at "in other dysfunction"

DestroyedWife, I think you have summed up these guys' sexual issues in a nutshell, wish I could "box" quote what you just wrote!

If someone could truly explain this aspect of the aversion to the "wife" as "Mom" and "Home" and all that, we could see more clearly what made them into the adult children they are. As Lionne and ashes have often said, the emotional development stopped for these guys at the point where sex for them became some sick secret (my own little twist).

In my SAWH's case, he was sexually abused by his paternal grandfather at age 3, then by his mother, throughout his childhood. He took refuge from that sickness in sneaking Playboy-type porn into his room as a teen, hiding it inside a car magazine or something "safe." So for him, we learned after D-Day, his idea of "Mom" carried a mixed-up meaning: she was not meant by nature to be his sexual partner! Yet at the same time, she acted seductive with and possessive of him as her oldest child; he got the message he was her "favorite son," as his brother's wife told me they all understood. I suspect his sick mother was reacting to his father's unfaithfulness, or acting out her own FOO sex abuse, but I have no direct proof of that...other than the old saying that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...."

What I have NEVER been able to understand, though, is how that twisted Mother-in-the-home "imago" he carried, was grafted almost from day 1 onto ME! I married him when he was a bachelor of almost 40. Of course, his incestuous mother and father "had" to stay in my little house "with their newlywed son" for 6 LONG weeks after the wedding, and travel all around the USA with us, too....we couldn't shake them...they turned our wedding into an excuse for an Extended Family Reunion...probably triggering the s#it out of my new husband, bringing all his CSA associations back to real time...? For a few years, I thought that the way we started married life had much to do with it, but reading all your posts, they have to have deeper turn-offs than that, if every SA has this same aversion to his wife?

My late father could never understand my SAWH being okay with me sleeping on the couch after D-Day.....for 5 years....and him sleeping like a contented baby in our king size bed...never even bothering to reach out to me....it blew my Dad's mind when I would tell him that (and according to my brother, our father was a porn hound, himself!) But the aversion bit was really odd, my father thought. Me, too.

Oh dont worry about me. I wasnt trying to get attention or approval from him. I am way past that. I was just trying to gauge his reaction. It either had to be like you guys said, wr arent having sex so he just isnt going to pursue at all. But still, if you find your wife attractive, wouldnt you sneak a look when she wasn't paying attention?

In reference to mommy issues. Sawh definitely put those on me as well. From day one almost, if i told him not to something, he would do it just because, he cant stand being told what he can and cannot do. After my dad died of lung cancer, I declared that wh must not ever smoke because I cant lose him too. He almost immediately (like within a month) started smoking. Later he told me he wasnt even interested in smoking, he just did it because i told him not too. it all stems from his foo. He was constantly in trouble or getting yelled at so now he rebels against me. Now, if i say something to him about something i would like him to do differently, he gets angry and defensive and declares that he is not a "bad person". It could be something simple that does t have anything to do with our marital issues. It just blows my mind.

I finally have an appointment with an IC tomorrow. She is the partner of my husband's new IC.

I plan to tell her I DON'T need to dig into my inner child and relive my shitty family. I DON'T need to investigate why I've allowed myself to be treated poorly. I know all that, I've been through all that.

I just want strategies to enable me to stop emotional eating, sleep without nightmares, get this rotten taste out of my mouth, and feel something other than ennui and anger.

Good or bad plan?

I read "When he's married to Mom" by Adams. I recommend it. My SAH is "mother enmeshed." I get now that she was covertly incestuous with my husband when he was young. I have suspicions that she was also overly incestuous. My SAH has a very, very hard time looking at the issues with his mother. I'm nothing like her, yet he sees me as her.

I see my husband's overwhelming immaturity so clearly now. I honestly didn't see it clearly in the past. I think his awful raging made it harder to see. But I also think I was trying to understand him in the context of being an adult, and it was so confusing. Now that I see him as a bratty little boy, everything is so clear. It sucks, though. No doubt about that.

Doug Weiss wrote that it's likely that our partners started to devalue our sexuality and attractiveness very soon after marriage. He points out that once they marry us, they protect the addiction. I think all addicts think that marriage will "cure" them, but of course it doesn't.

I remember when I was sexually attracted to my husband. I doubt he was ever really attracted to me and that makes me sad. Now, I have zero attraction to him. And, that makes me sad for me. It's not just the anorexia and ignoring in my case, like Lionne, my husband said the most hurtful things about my body, my attractiveness, my worth as a woman. Really vicious things that I do not forgive. All in all, why would I be attracted to someone like that?

And, now that he's not such an asshole, he's still this little boy and I'm certainly not sexually attracted to that. I still see my husband being reactive, not proactive. He still f's up so much of everyday life. It's stunning to this day. Having let go of cleaning up after him has made my life immensely better. I only intervene if his screw ups affect me or my pets.

Some days he seems okay to live with. He's easier, that's a fact. But he's not a mature partner or a truly giving, caring person. I still see divorce in my future.

ashestophoenix

my husband said the most hurtful things about my body, my attractiveness, my worth as a woman

Oh yeah. Some of his comments are burned into my brain. I will never in my wildest thoughts be able to understand that. He was vicious, maybe "protecting the addiction" but so, so over the top.

He's extremely remorseful, sincerely wishes he could take it all back, but it doesn't work that way, does it?

I'm sorry you were abused like this, too, Ashes.

PS...there is a slideshow of some of the men involved in SFL. I sincerely hope none of your husbands are there...

Lionne: It's my personal opinion that IC is there for whatever it is that you need at the time. if that means strategies to get through your days and nights, go for it.

Ashestophoenix: Couldn't agree more on the "he's not a mature partner, or truly giving person" and this bothers me really more than the infidelity. I guess because all the acting out, I believe is rooted in these things. He is working on it. Sometimes he will react to a situation very maturely and I'm thinking...wow, he's starting to get it. Then when we are alone he will say "Don't you think I used great restraint in how I acted?" and I just shake my head. Does he really need approval for acting appropriately?? Mature individuals just act appropriately and don't look for kudos. IDK.

I realize that I idolized my H before all this. He's an extremely intelligent successful man. Now I see that as the problem, where I used to think it was wonderful. But intelligence is not always emotional intelligence and success OFTEN does not reward kindness or empathy, in fact, it breeds quite the opposite. Wish I had seen the immaturity before. Our MC said to me in private session "he is rather immature, isn't he?"

I'm sad for anyone dealing with the aftermath of this massage parlor sting and the lives that are damaged by the fallout of the actions of selfish individuals.

Lionne-

I think your strategy is good. Is your therapist into CBT? I'd probably confirm during the session, otherwise it might not be a good match.

I will say, normally I prefer CBT over talk therapy, but talk therapy is sort of enough for me so far.

My husband's therapist left the practice...another one needs to be procured.

I feel like everything is just stalling. It's torture.

This is a question that had me up last night. Regarding the MP busts, Kraft arrest etc. When Dday occurred I found my WH was reaching out for a sexual massage but never got back to that woman via email even though she had responded via a Craigslist ad. He assured me he never did that....maybe so, maybe not. Somehow I always felt a little reassured that there was no direct money transaction for sexual services, weird, I know, I guess we hold onto whatever we can.

However, WH did frequent strip clubs, "befriend" some of them and sleep with them in hotels around town. I know he wined and dined the strippers and bought them gifts, etc...but why would these women do this? He's older, not particularly a catch for someone that age except he has money and charm. I now wonder if he paid them outright. I guess my naive self wants to think it was for the dining and gifts that they slept with him, but now I'm thinking there must've been money transactions involved. Is that how it works? Does anyone know? I feel so stupid.

samil, that's not a stupid question. The women in the sex industry are doing the work as a job...to make money. My bet is most of them come from a background of sexual abuse, but I do believe they are trying to make a living. There has to be some kind of financial exchange for them. They're not stupid. They know these men are married.

My husband was so deluded he believed that if he was romantically or sexually attracted to a woman or girl, she was just as attracted to him. That's nuts, but I always have to remember he doesn't see women or girls as human beings. They are objects for his use.

ashestophoenix

In a world where a man decides how much to tip for his dinner or bar tab, where he chooses how much to tip for his hair cut, where most of the people who perform domestic services for his convenience are female, "tipping" for a woman's sexual services probably isn't as big of a mental leap for a man as it might seem to us women. After all, a man may rationalize, isn't "she" just another female, working to tend to one of his physical needs...as his "Good Mommy" did? (Yikes, I just made that connection as I wrote this....are these guys ALL that gender-fixated?)

After learning that my husband had summoned a high-priced escort to his hotel room the same night as he had left our bed one morning, I couldn't stand his putting money down on any horizontal surface near where I slept, even if he needed to leave the house before I was awake. It just seemed to me like he was "tipping" me, too, for being "a good wife!" Yuck!! It totally warped my view of my husband as a "good provider" when he had no problem paying for a prostitute!

I realize that I idolized my H before all this. He's an extremely intelligent successful man. Now I see that as the problem, where I used to think it was wonderful. But intelligence is not always emotional intelligence and success OFTEN does not reward kindness or empathy, in fact, it breeds quite the opposite. Wish I had seen the immaturity before. Our MC said to me in private session "he is rather immature, isn't he?"

sami1234, this is exactly my SAWH. He is super successful in the business world and I literally had him on a pedestal for the last 20 years. Now, I just see him as broken and someone that has destroyed my life as I knew it.

I'm really struggling with something and thought I would run it by you for help. SAWH had his "coming out" as we call it where he admitted he was an SA and told me everything back in Dec. 2018. One of the things that I found was an e-mail to a prostitute saying that he "like to please her also". So in the "Coming out" he had to admit that he gave oral sex to prostitutes. He admitted to about 200 prostitutes over the last 13 years, but he told me that he only gave oral sex to 2 of them. I COMPLETELY don't believe him that it was only 2 so I'm really struggling that he's not telling me the whole truth. I feel like everything else has come out and we are working really hard to get through it all and for me to forgive, and for him to get well. I feel like if he doesn't tell me EVERYTHING, I can't forgive him. Is that something that anyone else is struggling with? Should I just accept that I'm never going to know the whole truth and move on?

[This message edited by veryhurt2018 at 11:09 AM, February 27th (Wednesday)]

I am in no way an expert, but I don't think you can heal if your relationship if he is still lying to you. You need to know all the information/details you need to reconcile what happened and move forward. Sometimes when I caught myself asking questions I would ask myself if the answer was likely to help me, hurt me, or make an difference in the outcome. For me oral sex with 2 people or 200 wouldn't matter as much as him minimizing what you already know is true.

Sometimes they are such good liars- they even lie to themselves.

These are crazy difficult circumstances and tenuous situations that they put us and our families in.

Sorry you are here.