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Particle,

As I said earlier, it’s great that you have taken more decisive action and that you WW appears to be responding positively. There a still a couple of areas that if you haven’t already, you may want to probe with WW. I still find it difficult to understand that when you confronted her about her yearlong affair, she argued with you and told you she didn’t love you. Then, 12 or so hours later she’s begging for you to forgive her and take her back. Just defines logic and doesn’t compute for me. Another thing is after she went to all the trouble to consult with a D attorney, she tells him a week after you confront her that you’re in R and she doesn’t need him anymore. It appears she’s pretty confident she can manage this situation. Finally, the Facebook interaction with her “cheerleader” seems almost orchestrated. For a year this woman, among other things, egged her on and then supported her Ding you. Then, when she’s confronted, she tells this woman (for your benefit?) that she should have supported her in the M and then later unfriends her. This just looks a little too convenient for me. There may be nothing to these things, but again, if you haven’t already, I would press her on all these

Finally, I agree with others. Many, many times the WW will appear to do everything possible to save the M, when in reality, they are just trying to save themselves. I hope that is not the case. Stay and take you time to observe you WW’s actions and decide if you really do want her back after all. Good luck.

[This message edited by Unsure2019 at 2:12 PM, June 7th (Sunday)]

Listen to this^^^^^ very closely.

Brother, you have to look after yourself. WW is doing the right things, for you that is helping. As the anger passes and acceptance appears then you can then decide if D or R is possible. A very knowledgeable detective here said Assume Nothing, Believe nothing and Check everything. This is applicable to WW responses and actions.

Take it easy, one day at a time.

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Watch her closely. You aren't out of the woods by a longshot. Verify everything she tells you. Take nothing she says at face value. She needs to understand that at this moment she is the one person you trust the least right now. She will have to work every day for the next few years to earn your trust back. Ignore what she says, watch what she does.

[This message edited by Westway at 9:52 AM, June 8th (Monday)]

I am still reading and listening. I understand what everyone is saying, but I haven't really told the entire story, all the details and it seems to have given some false impressions, my fault, I understand that and some of my responses were fog induced and limited.

Unsure2019 -

I still find it difficult to understand that when you confronted her about her yearlong affair, she argued with you and told you she didn’t love you. Then, 12 or so hours later she’s begging for you to forgive her and take her back. Just defines logic and doesn’t compute for me.

I 100% agree with you. This was my sticking point as well. I did not ignore it and I have pressed her on it many times. She says it was a deer in the headlights moment and didn't know what to say, she got defiant/angry upon being caught. The "reason" she turned around so quickly is supposedly that when we were talking that night I pointed out all of the things that made me a good father and a good husband and I refuted her "examples" she gave me that made her "unhappy". I was upset, but very logical because it hurt so much. She said she was fucked up, turned around and none of it was true when she thought about it and what I said (although she didn't credit me for that), she just made it true in her head.

So basically, unhappy, depressed with anxiety (diagnosed for both and on meds for years), stressed at school, made some shit up or took little things to close to the vest, did not communicate, met someone, woo'ed her, cheated, got caught, told off, realized she's a bag of shit about to lose her entire family and 20 years, then begged to come back. It was also less than a year, and a lot less times than I assumed, I rechecked and confirmed, not that it matters, it was still long enough, one time would have been enough.

Lot's to unpack there and we're doing that so... Discussions are not over by a long shot.

Short update:

Got the VAR in, put it under the seat. Took it out last night to check. Lot's of music to go through (which kind of sucks) but she had a phone call with someone, which I assume was a friend, she was parked and it wasn't through the car so only heard one side. If anyone knows a audio program to use to easily decipher music/speech let me know.

I heard her talking about how much of a bad person she was, the other person was clearly trying to calm her down, . It cut in and out a lot, I assume it's when she just wasn't saying anything and listening. I also heard I love him so much, I don't know, I'm bad person, we have to make it work, I'll do anything etc.

It's hard to understand a flow of a conversation with one side and cutouts.

lot's of other fluff, some sobbing, lot's of yeahs and uh huhs, some of I could not hear very well. It as the only phone call for the day it was in the car at her lunch break.

Without context I cannot 100% say for sure it was all about me, but it sure seemed to be.

Anyway I "know" this woman (as ironic as that might sound), I know right at this moment she is being honest, I am not sure what happens tomorrow because I know she can clearly turn on a dime, so I have to deal with and decide if that's something I want. I am pretty positive I can right all the "wrongs" (because they are not real) she thought she had going on in her life, so I doubt this would happen again, and I will never stop monitoring her phone, location, texts etc, in case OM shows up, but again, I have to decide if I want to live that kind of life. Not sure I do. I feel I am starting to lean the other way.

What stage am I in? Is there a stage that is "do I, don't I"?

I've noticed women looking at me when I go to the store or something even with my mask on, I've never payed attention to that before and I'm looking back. Good or bad sign?

Good news that you are hearing what you're hearing on the VAR. I think it's a good sign.

I am pretty positive I can right all the "wrongs" (because they are not real) she thought she had going on in her life...

Only *she* can do that.

She says it was a deer in the headlights moment and didn't know what to say, she got defiant/angry upon being caught.

.

What about her contacting a lawyer? That doesn't sound like a panic move to me. I think this is important.

Has she made an appointment with an IC yet?

What stage am I in? Is there a stage that is "do I, don't I"

Is there some anxiety around rushing through the process? Gently, it's the worst thing you can do. I really think an IC can help you through this. Please consider!

Wishing you the best!

Can you check cell phone records to see who she was talking to?

HardKnocks

Only *she* can do that.

Yes, I wrote what I meant incorrectly, I meant to say I didn't do anything, so it's easy. But I must make sure she is communicating.

What about her contacting a lawyer?

I gave the wrong impression, she literally just contacted one once and asked if they did divorces. That is all, no other contact or information at all.

Is there some anxiety around rushing through the process?

Of course. But as I mentioned this process seems to be going towards the opposite of reconciliation at the moment for me anyway, at least the scales are slightly titled that way now.

[This message edited by particle at 10:01 AM, June 10th (Wednesday)]

You might have something to work with here. It seems she might be showing some remorse.

particle, keep it up. It sounds like she is making all the right moves but again, actions matter, talk is cheap.

When you described her reaction on being confronted, it resonated with me.

I snooped on my WW’s tablet and found evidence of her last PA. I read the words, I knew what they meant, I knew what I was reading but my brain couldn’t register. Then, I found another email with a video she sent him. There was no question. I literally couldn’t sit still for hours.

When my WW got home, I confronted her immediately. The first thing I said was how many times have you cheated on me. She said, once, before we were married. I then said, so at least twice!?! She was adamant only once. I then proceeded to open her email and she then broke down.

I never understood this. How would I have known about a ONS 15 years ago, and this is what she is admitting to, not the one I have proof of?

She later described exactly what you did. Deer in the headlights. She knew I had found out about the PA, she said to me she was just shaken and didn’t know what to say or do.

I believe her. I’ll never forget that moment. Since I had read her sappy email to the OM, I knew she had cheated on me, but nothing compares to your partner speaking the words “yes, I cheated on you”. That moment, everything became real and I crashed.

Does she know you're here on SI?

But I must make sure she is communicating.

Nope. Take all thoughts of, "I just need to make my WW do X," and throw them out the window. You can't make her do anything. If she chooses to wall off again in the future, no amount of you asking if she's okay or to check in with you will help because she will lie and excuse the lack of communication away. Just like she probably did during the A if you ever asked her even once if she was okay or if she needed to talk or pointed something amiss out to her. All you need to do is take care of yourself, make sure you are acting in accordance to what you want, and living authentically from your end. Your WW will either follow or not and if you're doing your job, you will be able to handle either situation with grace and dignity no matter what happens.

I heard her talking about how much of a bad person she was, the other person was clearly trying to calm her down.

In your first post you said that she was calling herself a monster and that she hates herself. To her she may think that she's admitting some "truth" about herself but to me it just sounds like some sort of playing the victim, "I know I am so bad"...I hope you and others just let that comment hang around for a bit and then agree or ignore. Don't comfort her, I think that is what she is looking for but I don;t know.

It's easy to call yourself a monster or a bad person but to have others especially your spouse say it, that hurts.

MickeyBill2016 -

I hope you and others just let that comment hang around for a bit and then agree or ignore.

Can't speak for anyone else but I haven't comforted her about anything, and I ignore that completely and let it hang indefinitely.

nekonamida -

Nope. Take all thoughts of, "I just need to make my WW do X," and throw them out the window.

I agree with the 100 foot view of this, but if I feel she is not communicating honestly I am going to say something and be forceful about it, I have a reason to be forceful now. No matter what someone has done a marriage is still a two way street.

Why would you want to be a watchdog and investigator over her for the rest of your life????

It might be easy for me to say as I filed for divorce Immediately after finding out, actually before she knew that I knew.

I just thought that I could invest all the time and energy into having a relationship with a proven liar and cheater, or use that time with others. For me the decision was very easy. But that doesn’t mean I didn’t have bad days.

But as my signature below says, it was best decision I’ve ever made

Good luck

Stay strong

The way betrayal works for many, me included, is that you tend to lean toward reconciliation right off of the bat. Then over time as the impact of what happened sinks in you start to get angry. At that point you realize that your partner didn't love you like you loved them. This brings out the questions about your own choices in life. Did you make a mistake giving up your years of life for this person? The option of getting free from your betrayer starts to look better. Then after a while longer, apathy towards them begins to creep in. You see them towing every line, making every effort, saying all the right words and doing all the right things but the betrayal has changed you inside. Your commitment has been rocked and your feelings toward them get stiff and mechanical. Freedom comes to mind as a viable alternative to living with uncertainty and having to look at your betraying partner every day. Realize that this too is a stage. This is the stage where renewal and apathy battle in your head. You like many of us won't know the outcome until it's over. Once it's settled, you'll either be focused on renewing your relationship or you'll be focused on starting a new life. Neither path is wrong as long as the path you eventually choose is the one that leads to a content, peaceful, successful, and happy future for you. Your wife made her choices. It's now your turn to make your choices. Choose the best for yourself; you're worth it. Take care.

Good advice Dismayed

I am pretty positive I can right all the "wrongs" (because they are not real) she thought she had going on in her life, so I doubt this would happen again,

It's incorrect to think that what was going on in your her life/your relationship - the "wrongs" are anything you have control over. The "wrongs" are inside her head, her character, her morals, her rationalizations.

At this point you should continue to believe that these "wrongs" still exist, AND that this could happen again.

She needs to fix what is "wrong" inside her in order for you to be safe in a relationship with her.

Maybe a couple years of therapy will help her.

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