SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

InkHulk,

Just how devestated can she be when after a year (I still don't actually beleive that) and confessing to you she still tells her AP that she loves him and also warns him that you may try to contact the OBS. Please wake up. She is NOT remorseful. At best she regrets this because it could seriously damage her lifestyle and reputation.

Just out of curisoty have you asked her why after seeing how devasted you were she still told her AP she loved him and then tried to warn him?

As I spiraled down over the first 6 months after d-day, I realized I had 3 giant questions:

1) Does she love me?
2) Is she in love with me?
3) Will she be monogamous from now on?

I super relate to this, in keeping with my backhoe meme. I like hearing that she loves me, but it doesn’t have much substance right now. One of the hardest things to swallow is that she carried (at least) an EA on for more than 15 months post admitted sex with enough intensity to sign off "I love you". I think I believe that it’s possible to romantically love more than one person at a time. There is no way that she had no care for me over those 18 months, I definitely would have noticed that. But I didn’t marry her to share her. I liked it, I put a ring on it. So I still don’t know what to do with that. She claims the "I love you" of a few days ago was more platonic, but has admitted to exchanging romantic "I love you"’s during the period leading up to PA. I have asked for clarification on how her feelings for him evolved in that time.

Just how devestated can she be when after a year (I still don't actually beleive that) and confessing to you she still tells her AP that she loves him and also warns him that you may try to contact the OBS. Please wake up. She is NOT remorseful. At best she regrets this because it could seriously damage her lifestyle and reputation.

I want to say that I hear everyone’s voice on this point about her remorse. She has acted so illogically all thru this, and all y’all are trying to read her intentions thru the second hand ramblings of me. It seems like trying to predict the weather in Dublin in two months using divining sticks. I have the front row seat to this shit show, I’m calling it how I see it. I still welcome challenges to my biases, I just won’t always agree with you. (Oddly, WW has always hated when I say something like that).

Just out of curisoty have you asked her why after seeing how devasted you were she still told her AP she loved him and then tried to warn him?

She sent the note to him before she confessed to me. The note did not contain any kind of explicit warning, but it’s existence was enough to make it plausible that he was monitoring OBS messages and intercepted. I threatened OM to message bomb him and his wife in multiple formats until I heard her voice on the phone to confirm she was informed. That immediately got her to call me. She confirmed she knew, told me to leave her alone, and hung up. Case closed for me now. I regret I was not able to respect her wishes of non-contact (turns out it was real, see you guys are wrong sometimes) but I had to be sure.

Gotta love the trickle truth experience (eye roll here)

I often say it’s not the affair that causes the most damage it’s how the cheater behaves after Dday.

In this case the fact finding Mission has gone on so long it’s painful. Painful to experience and painful to watch.

I’m sorry this continues. But it only continues as long as you allow it.

I can tell you my H was skating on very thin ice after dday2 of affair 2. He knew not to put me in this position.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:46 PM, Thursday, June 30th]

It astounds me how often I read on here that WS insist they used ‘protection’ during their sexual encounters, specifically condoms. Than go on and admit to oral sex. Is the majority of the adult population ignorant to the fact that SEVERAL STDs can be passed on thru oral sex and at least 4 of them thru kissing (herpes, hpv, syphillis and cytomegalovirus) They brag as if they were ‘responsible’ during a time when they were making completely irresponsible choices! Taking risks with not only their physical health but that of their BS.

I’m very sorry your going thru this. Please don’t leave any rock unturned in your quest for answers. Believe nothing. Suspect everything.

There is a saying here: take the advice you can use and leave the rest. Posters offer advice based on our own experiences and observations here. But none of us know your WW and her intentions or stage of remorse. So you will trust your gut and your firsthand experience with your WW to see what observations jive with what you see. There are repeating patterns in a WS’s behavior post Dday. But the fact that there is a pattern does not mean it fits your WW. In the long run you decide. Which is the way it should be. Take the advice you can use and leave the rest.

In this case the fact finding Mission has gone on so long it’s painful. Painful to experience and painful to watch.

This is an interesting perspective. I haven’t followed a ton of threads as they developed, so can’t say I have much of an expectation of how fast this is coming out. I’ve been comfortable with the pace actually. I’ve told her that it is critical that things are true and accurate and I think she has taken that to heart and values quality over speed, which I agree with. She carefully wrote our pages of content and read it to me last night, it got up to the point of sex. I agreed to have her work on the second chapter later because I didn’t want to wait last night. I don’t think what she is doing is "trickle truth". I made it very clear how seriously I took the lie about the NC message. I told her this morning that I feel like I’m starting to get a reasonable narrative assembled and it would be extremely painful to have it come crashing down with lies or withheld information. I can still feel myself in detective mode, I will look for ways to contradict her story. I’ve even sent an intentionally ambiguous message to OM to see if he will confirm the one time sex with condom. Even if he does, they could have set up that story together. But if he says something different, I know she’s lied. #logic

But he’ll probably just ignore me.

She let a player walk her down a completely stereotypical path to get in her pants.

Other folks are giving you very good situational advice and I'm not going to repeat it. I'm going to make a little bit of a philosophical remark here. She didn't "let him get in her pant" she invited him in.

It astounds me how often I read on here that WS insist they used ‘protection’ during their sexual encounters, specifically condoms.

She did not attempt to claim some kind of virtue in this, just claiming a fact. She even stated it was his idea to use the condom. As I said, her complete lack of forethought could have easily resulted in a pregnancy. I asked her if she researched abortion options, which would be a huge deal for both of us. She said she was scared of pregnancy from precum on underwear while fooling around.

On my way to my first STD screen. What a life milestone.

If she believes the recent "I love you" was platonic, she has a whole lot of work to do on herself. Couple that with sharing a very personal piece of information with him about you in the same message shows she is not over him. Her loyalty to him appears to be at least equal to her loyalty toward you. Your first post made it appear like you were out of infidelity from over a year ago. Now it looks like you are not out of infidelity yet at all.

She in her mind genuinely loved him. The endorphins kick in and she was feeling it. Doesn’t mean it was real but in the moment it felt that way.

The confession is good. She just had no concept what was going to happen when she did.

As others have pointed out a one time event followed by 15 months of contact without more is irrational. This is going to be the downfall of the marriage if she doesn’t come clean now.

There are real horror stories that end in R but they involve brutal honesty. Usually when a story sounds unbelievable it is because it’s simply false. So following up on a poly is a good idea.

How are the kids taking it?

Other folks are giving you very good situational advice and I'm not going to repeat it. I'm going to make a little bit of a philosophical remark here. She didn't "let him get in her pant" she invited him in.

She did. She claims he was the one who was constantly pushing boundaries to get it more and more sexual and I believe her, she’s not a leader in that way. She has a track record of effectively submitting to the will of guys in her life. While she has good head knowledge of what sexual ethics are, internal forces of affirmation seeking and peace keeping override that head knowledge in the moment. She experienced date rape and the asshole absolutely manipulated these things to override her stated will to not have sex. And now OM bats his eyes at her for a couple months and she is sleeping with him. Crazy. I’ve told her this is a gaping hole in the hull of the ship of our marriage and she will not be someone I commit to again if this is not addressed. We are looking for an IC for her. She has always rejected the idea that she needed therapy. If only she had had a little more humility she wouldn’t have had to be utterly humiliated. And spewed wreckage to everyone around her.

#riskmanagement

[This message edited by InkHulk at 10:04 PM, Wednesday, July 6th]

Agreed with FarEast. People can give you generalized information and they can share their experiences with you. They can even offer advice. But that advice is going to be based on their own bias and their own worldview. It's not going to reflect the exact situation in front of you. YOURS are the boots on the ground and YOU are the one who's going to end up living with your choices.

I actually think it's a best case scenario that your WW confessed. Yeah, a year late, but better late than never. And when you think about it, she didn't have to. She could have taken that info to her grave sixty years from now and you'd have been none the wiser. The only two reasons I can think of for confessing is that either a)the cheater believes they're going to be imminently discovered, or b)their conscience is hurting them and they want a closer, more authentic relationship with you. If it's the former, chances are pretty good that whoever was going to drop the bomb will want to verify that you know. And if it's the latter, it means you've got more to work with than the vast majority of us had.

You're only a couple of days into what will no doubt be a long and winding road to healing. It sucks, but there's no magic wand to waive away the hurt and betrayal. We've got to process it and it takes TIME whether you R or D. So my advice is to B-R-E-A-T-H-E. Just keep breathing. A few good deep breaths will help clear the mind, control the panic, and lower the blood pressure when it climbs. Look up "four square breathing" and add it to your self-care rituals.

And don't get caught up in the compulsive need to know. That's trauma. If you read through a copy of The Body Keeps Score by Bessell van der Kolk, what you'll find is that we need to reproduce "the story" when we've experienced a traumatic injury and we need to keep 'telling it' over and over again (rumination). It's normal. Just remember that "normal" does not necessarily mean desirable. You could find out every last jot of detail and this compulsive feeling would still linger because it's part of how your brain deals with trauma. It feels so gross and crazy-making, I know, and I remember how frantic I felt tearing through every source of information and every nook of my house. Just try not to let it run your life or your mind. Feelings aren't facts, right?

You're going to be okay. Believe it. We're all here and we're making it through. You will too. It's going to suck and it's going to feel messy, like REAL messy, but you'll make it.

Hulk

As others have pointed out a one time event followed by 15 months of contact without more is irrational. This is going to be the downfall of the marriage if she doesn’t come clean now.

The above partnered with that screwed up NC communication sticks out like a red herring. I hope when you get this timeline thing done that you follow it through with the polygraph to increase your odds that the above statement is not wishful thinking.

If you decide to do a polygraph, I would suggest you do not follow Dr. Strangeloves example of giving his wife a trial run on the questions he would ask. And in case you're wondering, I am not giving you advice that i did not take myself. I am not suggesting you take your time to read my 40 something page thread in my profile, but my wife not only passed the polygraph on all the questions but actually demanded I once I brought it up. make her take it.

So here's a few suggestions
(1) meet with the examiner, tell them exactly what you want and what your questions are. He or she will help you phrase the questions and will also explain to your wife what the limits of the question are at the examination. Most will let you ask about 4-6 questions with YES/NO answers only.
(2) do not tell her exactly when it is until the night before if possible. I know you have kids so that may be harder than some.
(3) before you do the exam, ask her if there is ANYTHING else she needs to tell you before the exam. Many times you get a confession of more crap
(4) do not threaten of definitely tell her what will happen if she passes or fails. You are using this as a tool and YOU need to have some semblance of plan of what you course of action will be with any possible outcome on each question.
SHE NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND clearly that her passing the test does NOT mena its all now good and the A is buried and all is back to normal. Many WW think that when they pass they are totally forgiven.
(5) under no circumstances cancel the test even if you get confessions of more dirt before you leave for the test. The only was the test gets cancelled is if someone drones the examiners office.

If it helps you, here are four questions i think you might want proof of answers to
(1) are Hulk and OM the only men you have had sexual relations with physically since ( you insert the date). The examiner will define sexual relations to her.
(2) are there any online accounts or e mail address or apps that you are not aware of and have passwords for on any computer or phone that she has access to.
(3) has she broken NC in any way or been in his physical presence since ( you insert the date)
(4) do any of her girlfriends , work friends, or any other people you know have knowledge of what she did prior to her confession.

Obviously you can do your own questions, but i hope this helps a little if you move forward on the polygraph, as you have been urged to do by a number of responders.

Good luck. You are doing a good job of sorting through this.

Sex is a dance if it isn't rape. I understand she is a sexual abuse survivor and that can cause issues that need therapy.

That said, this was a dance that she chose to engage in over and over. It doesn't matter if she likes a guy that pushes boundaries or that she likes to take control.

At every step toward sex, she actively chose her part in it. She did things that made him want to push boundaries, and ultimately, she drove for two hours toward him in order to have sex. How on earth could he be the only one "pushing for more" when she is taking a four hour round trip for sex?

Do you think she didn't question whether or not she should be doing that on the two hour trip toward him? No, she definitely knew it was wrong, definitely wanted it and she was following her desires.

I think it's important for both you and her to admit that she actively wanted and enthusiastically pursued a sex partnership requiring a high level of effort and forethought.

The only two reasons I can think of for confessing is that either a)the cheater believes they're going to be imminently discovered, or b)their conscience is hurting them and they want a closer, more authentic relationship with you.

I have good reason to believe it’s the second. The context of her confession is that the night before I had made a significant confession myself of wronging her many years ago. This is the sensitive detail she old OM. Again, not going to go into it here. But enough to say that I had found a very sensitive topic for her and she was deeply moved. I think it combined with her guilt and forced the issue. She also told OM that this could be an opportunity where I might actually forgive her (that was in the no contact letter). While I refuse to come anywhere close to thinking these things are a wash, it has had the effect of tempering my self righteousness somewhat. While I agree with the mantra of this forum that the infidelity is 100% on the cheater, I also know every real relationship has layers and layers of depth and complexity and hurts. I want to believe that she wants a better, more authentic relationship with her. I can’t be sure it’s true, but I can allow myself to cautiously hope and keep both eyes and both ears open. I’ve been making it very explicit to her what I stated earlier, that I am no longer bound by my wedding vows (which I took very seriously). So now problems with things like communication, grudge holding, sex, trustworthiness, any of them are potentially a deal breaker, just like a dating relationship. If I’m not excited about the future I see with her I can walk away with a clear conscience.

I also desperately wish she would have made her deep hurt and resentment known to me years ago instead of making me feel and introspect it out. She is a stuffer of the highest order. I have told her this is unacceptable going forward, a total deal breaker for me to recommit.

You can find your own path forward InkHulk.

I will say this, learning to live with uncertainty is what I have chosen. I am "both feet in" on R, but I am not going to renew my vows (and don't see that ever happening). I am not "recommitted" for life. I'm going to stay in this M as long as I can hack it, and keep my escape hatch available. The freedom to change my mind makes me feel much less foolish in staying.

I think it's important for both you and her to admit that she actively wanted and enthusiastically pursued a sex partnership requiring a high level of effort and forethought.

Actively wanted it the day of, no question. And actively walked the path to get there. My point is that all of this is 180 degrees opposite to what she would proclaim as her sexual ethics but she is willing to abandon those ideals with almost zero encouragement from an outside person with intent of getting sex from her. She and I did not have sex during dating, and it’s clear to me that it was because that was my conviction. If I would have wanted sex, I could have gotten her to have sex, I have no doubt. She had a long term college boyfriend before me that actually took her seriously when she plainly stated she wanted to save sex for marriage. While he didn’t share that ethic, her profession was enough for him to not push it. I told her that bf could have gotten her into bed if he wanted to, and she agreed.
So she has no failsafe, no inertia of her convictions, she just gave into the feel good emotions of it all. That’s a big red flag for me.

I’ve been making it very explicit to her what I stated earlier, that I am no longer bound by my wedding vows (which I took very seriously).

Be really careful with that. You are the injured party here, that's true. But it really is possible to lash out and to do so much damage that it complicates the forward path enough to take the possibility of R off the table. Whatever injuries we do to one another must be healed, regardless of how they happened. The best way to keep all your options open is to not pile on more damage to what you already have. Remember to breathe.