SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Interested to hear your thoughts on this sentiment?

youtube dot com/watch?v5TUxH2izTGI

Her premise is not unreasonable sounding: have the courage to stay and try to make it work. The most glaring reality that she does not offer her audience is that no amount of courage by the betrayed will matter unless she is also willing to tell her audience that the cheater is 100% responsible and broken and unsafe and until the cheater addresses their unsafe casual view of boundaries, betrayed courage manifests itself as a life in perpetual limbo. She also suggests that the cheater may be up to 99% responsible......suggesting the betrayed is at least 1% responsible.

To her credit, she does make a passing reference to the cheater needing to own it, no blame shifting, actions not words, true contrition. So, I would have to agree, if.......and we all know it is a very big if......if the cheater genuinely embraces all of these traits and shows the much needed empathy and contrition, then........then, courage by the betrayed may just be enough to make it work. Courage by a BS can serve to cause the betrayed even more pain and anguish if the cheater has still not fixed the broken, unsafe character issues that were the real reason for the cheating. She can't help herself from advising that wayward and betrayed both need to see what was happening in their relationship that allowed things to go "off course". Again, not her focus but still a dangerous suggestion that something in the M was partly responsible for the cheating.

It's a Ted talk, so there is an understanding of the formula used across all topics. But, as with many like her, they have some of it right, but the most critical element given little coverage and emphasis.

It's really, really good that anger is your primary emotion. You are a victim of the second worst form of spousal abuse known to mankind. You can either accept the abuse or dismiss it for the poison that it is. Anger is how you dismiss it early on. Eventually that will change to apathy, and then to....nothing.

SUPERB job contacting the other person's spouse. You are doing everything right. Getting the divorce papers written is also an amazing psychological tool for you. Even if they are never ultimately acted on ACTION is what heals. Sitting back and creating wish-casted plans is not an effective use of your time and emotion. You're in a mess 100% not of your making so you can either wallow in it or roll up your sleeves and get out of it.

It's also beyond critical that you get these written given the existence of three innocent children in this mess. Given your desires to live in differant places you controlling the legal narrative is critical if you want to maximize the time you get to spend with your children in the event of a legal dissolution of the marriage (she's already dissolved it from an ethical and practical standpoint... it's over, gone, kaplut - ALL done unilaterally.)

LittleAndyUnicorn...

First of all, we all feel your pain. Second, you've been given a lot of great advice here from folks who have walked the same path you find yourself on.

I actually haven't been to this board in years, but what people are telling you is the truth, and you really have to understand that. If your wife is not truly remorseful, you are spinning your wheels, my friend.

My WW and I have reconciled (somewhat). I am telling you -- with 100% certainty -- that we would have divorced if my WW said what yours has after being exposed.

Things were never the same again for my WW and myself, but the only thing that kept us together was the fact that my WW accepted 100% of the responsibility, did not deflect or rug sweep, and did EVERYTHING a WW is supposed to do in order to be redeemed (as much as possible).

As others have stated, we do not see that from your WW. For example, she breaks YOUR heart, then tells you she wants to see why the scumbag was ditching HER?!?! Are you kidding me? That is heartless, and you deserve better. ANYONE would deserve better.

Please take care of yourself, and know this: No matter what comes of this, you will be fine, and your kids will be fine. Be firm, and trust in what I just said.

Peace.

D

Some of the statements you have made about where you are headed are not likely to work. Like these three:

I want a divorce, and you get nothing.

So do I kick her to the curb…

end it with him now or I am leaving and taking the kids.

Like it or not, infidelity or not, her fault or not… divorce and custody is controlled by all sorts of laws and processes, and you do not control what she does or does not get. Same with residency and an expectation for access to the home. Same with the kids. Same with finances – as a married couple there are certain expectations in finances so you can’t cut her off completely.

If the above are your goals then there are ways to reach them. Well… except the one where you take the kids… If your agreement has been to-date that she’s a SAHM and prime-caregiver while you work then that’s going to count heavily in custody… But there are ways to lean things in your favor. But a one-sided ultimatum isn’t likely to fly and chances are that if you try to implement one or more of them she will eventually realize that.

In saying this I’m not suggesting you forfeit the idea of divorce. I’m just asking that you decide what you want based on reality rather than fantasy because when push comes to shove that’s what will prevail.

I also want you to consider why you can’t accept even the slightest blame for her decision to cheat.

If you caused her to cheat then what can prevent you from causing her to cheat again? Like now she claims your reluctance to move to Hicksville county made her cheat. Let’s say you two reconcile and 3 years from now you want a blue Honda and she a red Toyota and you prevailed. Would that justify giving the mailman a BJ?

As long as the WS can allocate even an iota of blame to the BS there is the increased risk of a relapse. After all – they can’t help it can they? We cause it not them.

It does sound like you want to reconcile…

Well… that’s not possible unless the affair is over and your wife also wants to reconcile. Unless you have those two requirements in place then R isn’t even remotely possible.

Coercing your wife to reconciliation won’t work either. If she were to decide to end the affair it should be because she WANTS the marriage rather than she can’t get out of the marriage.

I would suggest a slightly different approach to your situation. Tell your wife something along these lines:

“Wife. I have realized that ending our marriage is not the worst possible outcome. Knowing you want someone else and/or are with someone else is immensely worse. That would be at best sharing you and I do not share my wife.

If you want this marriage you need to let me know in a clear and concise way. I would require that there is no contact whatsoever with the OM and the total unabridged truth about what happened and a commitment to reconciliation. Just remember that I am OK with my decision and am on the way to fully accepting it.”

Hello @LittleAndyUnicorn, I'm sorry to see you here. I am feeling much like you except mine was a little over 3 months ago.

I just wanted to let you know that I am so sorry for what you had to go through. I too had to snoop and watch a relationship between my wife and some scumbag unfold before my eyes. It took me three days to go through all the texts, photos, emails, and logs. I'm completely traumatized by this and I am sure you are too.

I started to feel just like you like I wanted to work on things right away, but as I sat with it, I realized how hurt, angry, betrayed, and mistreated I was. We don't deserve that!

I would say to take time for yourself right now and really sort through your feelings. This is the best advice I have received from the wonderful folks here. Your WW was selfish and now it's your turn. Focus on you, your health, your well being, and try not to focus on divorce or reconciliation, focus on YOU.

Keep in contact here, the people here are all wonderful and will answer any questions you have.

Again, so sorry to read your story, I feel for you and know exactly what you are going through.

I've read many posts from people that have said the recovery from an affair was the start of something even better.

I have been practicing a discipline of silence here of late, but I just wanted to offer you a perspective.

I am very skeptical of claims of "stronger, better, deeper" etc. when it comes to reconciliation.

I do think people can reconcile, and that includes by the way a form of reconciliation after divorce. I also think that in cases where a family is at stake, and children's lives and future happiness are on the line, one should probably lean toward an attempt at reconciliation at the very least.

I myself have not moved forward with a divorce at this point, although I've done most of the homework and preparation for one.

That said, I'm skeptical based on my own experience and because when you really dig down into what people say is "better" about their marriage after an affair, it usually consists of a list of things that any reasonable person should have expected before an affair and absent an affair. In other words, it's typically the bare minimum of decency, respect, communication and intimacy one should expect from a common sense perspective inside a faithful marriage. So that's not "better" -- certainly in the wake of toxic, abusive adultery.

I've often used an analogy for a marriage as being metaphorically similar to a precious vase. Think of it as a container for a special bond between a man and a woman. Into it is poured trust, love, intimacy, honor, commitment.

Your wife picked up this precious vase and deliberately dashed it into a thousand shards, spilling the contents everywhere.

You can try to sop up some of the leftover "trust" as it evaporates quickly on the floor. You can painstakingly glue this vase back together over time, and perhaps it will eventually come to serve some form of its original purpose.

But it will be irrevocably altered and not the same. Very few people would try to use a previously shattered vase to serve in the same way it did before. In fact it will be missing some of the raw material of the original precious vase. And it will no doubt be deficient in serving its original purpose before it was shattered.

Once, someone tried to question this analogy by saying "people aren't vases" which was an exercise in missing the point, since the analogy is about the marriage not about individuals. Someone else pointed out that the Japanese have a tradition of binding together broken pottery with a gold dust compound to create beautiful works of art. Again, I felt this missed the mark because the pottery is still broken and not stronger than it was before.

Reconciliation is a hard road. Very hard. It takes a fully committed, fully remorseful formerly wayward spouse who completely owns the process and works relentlessly to transform themselves from being a destroyer into a healer.

The problem is that the kind of people who were waywards in the first place have extremely deficient toolkits for coping with life. Waywards are abusers. When we examine other abusers of other types inside marriages, we typically don't see them transforming into the kind of self aware individuals who can fix their abusive nature.

Thus, it's also unlikely these deficient toolkits and warped worldviews that enabled abusive adultery in the first place can equip them for the hard work ahead.

So they have to build a new toolkit too. It's a heavy lift.

That's not to say some waywards don't alchemically transform. They do. You can read some of their stories on this site.

Just some things for you to think about.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:38 AM, April 12th (Monday)]

Very few people base their marriage and their relationships on anything more than emotions, convenience, habit and tradition. Generally when people seek professional help (like MC) or attend relationship weekends it’s to fix something that is wrong.

The best comparison I can think of for reconciling is like when you live an unhealthy lifestyle that leads to a life-threatening situation. It doesn’t have to be an extreme unhealthiness but maybe you neglect to eat healthy or don’t exercise or get too stressed and it eventually leads to you having a cardiac arrest.

In the ICU when you are recovering you are told that if you don’t change you are probably doomed to a repeat, only if that happens then maybe the paramedics won’t be able to save you.

So you get books on nutrition, go online and buy good jogging shoes and latex sweat-clothes, you read about hypnosis to quit smoking and find your nearest gym and the name of a personal trainer.

The books don’t do any good on the shelf, the shoes don’t burn calories in the box, the gym-card doesn’t automatically make you healthy. The PT showing you how to do push-ups doesn’t burn your fat. It’s not until you implement all the tools into your life that the results gradually start to appear. The improvements are there because you make them and work for them.

If you can use these tools to change your life you get to a new, better place. Maybe 5 years from your ambulance-ride to the ICU you might be thinking that you are in the best shape of your life and be glad you did all the work. It’s however extremely unlikely you will thank the cardiac arrest and see that as a positive experience, despite it being the catalyst for change. If anything you will be feeling sorry for having taken your health and life for granted for so long before implementing change.

It’s the same with Reconciling IMHO. Getting past your spouses decision to cheat is only a milestone on that ongoing path. Definitely a major milestone, but not the destination. The work done to reconcile should include tools and methods to improve communications, honesty, goals… all the factors needed for a good relationship. It also should create better individual’s (as in the WS dealing with his/her reasoning for the decision to cheat).

If you successfully work that path then maybe 5 years later you might reflect on your relationship and realize it’s better than before, but you would also be saddened knowing that nearly everything you have done and learned could have been done and learned without your spouse having an affair. Despite that having been the catalyst for change.

So a clear and definite NO. Infidelity never improves a relationship. Not any more than greasy hamburgers improve your health. But the work you decide to enter IF you decide to reconcile can definitely create a good relationship.

Maybe 5 years from your ambulance-ride to the ICU you might be thinking that you are in the best shape of your life and be glad you did all the work. It’s however extremely unlikely you will thank the cardiac arrest and see that as a positive experience, despite it being the catalyst for change. If anything you will be feeling sorry for having taken your health and life for granted for so long before implementing change.

It’s the same with Reconciling IMHO. Getting past your spouses decision to cheat is only a milestone on that ongoing path. Definitely a major milestone, but not the destination.

I sign on to this sentiment above.

I didn't realize I was on a timeline.

Honestly this is one of the douchier things I think I've read a wayward say. It reflects an astonishing lack of self awareness about the damage she has already inflicted and the door to hell she has opened.

Your WW is openly treating you with contempt as plan B.

It'll be tough to forget she saw you and treated you in a calculated fashion as plan B.

And this is why she is now in her hometown with her sister trying to figure out what she really wants.

And you believe this is where she is? With the sister who lied for her and covered for her?

Every thing she has said and done up to now screams that she is still with the OM as we speak. All her back and forth with you about being afraid to come home to your anger is b.s. She is just stalling to spend more time with the O.M.

And you don't live in the U.S. do you?

The best comparison I can think of for reconciling is like when you live an unhealthy lifestyle that leads to a life-threatening situation.

For some, struggling in a false R for years is a very unhealthy lifestyle that will lead to a trip to the ICU. Stress and anger are leading causes of heart attacks and those are the two most prominent debilitating and very real afflictions that a BS, in a phony R with a disingenuous WS, faces.

The negative health issues from prolonging a dead M and struggling in false R with a remorseless WS, is very real.

duplicate

[This message edited by DIFM at 1:25 PM, April 12th, 2021 (Monday)]

I'm sorry you found yourself here but glad that you did because of the incredibly helpful advice you are getting. A few thoughts I'd like to share even though I'm sure they've been said already:

Her choice was not your fault. Her choice was not a 'mistake' or 'accident.' She carefully planned out her actions.

The A is not over. She is not with her sister, she's with him.

Talking to an attorney and getting information doesn't mean you have to file immediately, but it gives you tools to decide what's best for you.

She isn't thinking about you but herself. She wants "time" to decide if you're worth it? I don't think so. If you hadn't caught her, she'd still be cheating.

Slight thread jack:

they want to see us at least once a week mostly. My WW has had trouble dealing with the smothering, as have I

I don't understand how your parents wanting to see you once a week is smothering. My dad passed away and I'd give anything to see him once a week. Don't take them for granted, their time here is limited.

I don't understand how your parents wanting to see you once a week is smothering. My dad passed away and I'd give anything to see him once a week. Don't take them for granted, their time here is limited.

I'm sorry about your Dad, I know how you feel.

Having said that, I understand wanting to take a break from the in-laws, but this nonsense about "smothering" is complete bullshit.

***

LittleAndyUnicorn, from everything you have written, it appears your wife is very entitled and selfish. And I bet if you really look at your time with her, you'll see that she has always been so.

Your story about how she pursued you for 3 years? well that may seem very romantic and nice - she wanted you, loved you and she finally got you!

But then she wanted you to move even though she pursued you where you live, and started a family with you in that city.

She also wanted to have you see your family less, and actually distance you from them!

Then I bet a bunch of other selfish stuff...

Then she decided she wanted to fuck some other guy and just do what she wanted to, with no regard for you or her children.

***

I am sorry to say LittleAndyUnicorn, but people don't become like this overnight. I would bet that that 4 weeks ago was not her first rodeo, or that this rodeo has been in town longer than you would like to believe.

I at first thought you knew all you needed to in order to make your decision, but I feel like you are still holding out hope. I don't want to dash your hope, but I think you need to really really understand who your wife is in relation to you, so you can make a clear-headed decision.

I would suggest you do some real investigating, and find out where she has been during the time she has been bullshitting you about being afraid to come home.

Her phone is tracking her location for sure.

I would also look at phone bill etc. and dig through her electronic communications to see how long she has been up to these shenanigans.

Overall, you're doing quite well. But knowledge is your friend and your power here.

Good luck.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 6:59 PM, April 12th (Monday)]

Really, I feel, so sorry for what your wife did to you and your children, I completely destroyed your family, even if you want to reconcile that will never leave your mind and the crack will open again every time you remember,

Your wife, has been with this guy for a long time, maybe they started as an EA, and a while ago it was fiscio, the fact that she wants to return to her town, I would tell you almost 80% is only because of her adventure, she has been with a long time. AP, within the things that you have written, you said about your pride and disunity, you cannot forgive her, but your actions show the opposite, I think that up to this moment, you have humiliated and denigrated yourself, a lot, for a woman who really does not It is worth it, you should start acting with facts and not with so many words, if in the end she is not there and does not care what happens to you and your children, a mother who loves her children would be desperate not to be there for them , and would not put the safety of her children at risk, as she is doing by fucking with another guy,

I know that if you start digging, you will discover that your wife is a phony and cheater, and her daughter is an Alahueta, incubating her sister's adventure, knowing that she has 3 children, REALLY BROTHER, TELL ME WHAT KIND OF MORALITY HAS THE FAMILY OF YOUR WOMAN,

I believe, that it is enough to humble yourself and you should not allow her to return to the house and do all kinds of communication with her, YOU ARE A GOOD MAN AND A GTAN FATHER, YOU MUST LOVE AND RESPECT YOURSELF A LITTLE MORE, DO NOT ALLOW ANY MORE DENIGRATION, TO YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN, IF YOU HAVE BEEN TWO DAYS YOU CAN BE A LOT MORE, THERE ARE INNUMERABLE SINGLE PARENTS,

She lets her GO TO THE TOWN AND SHE STILL FUCKING WITH HER AP OF HER, SHE IS ALREADY A DAMAGED WELL, NOTHING THAT SHE DOES CAN REBUILD, WHAT IS BROKEN,

YOU DESERVE SOMETHING MORE THAN ALL THIS SHIT, YOU ARE A MAN WITH VALUES AND PRINCIPLES, DON'T KEEP LYING TO YOURSELF, THIS NEVER AND TRULY NEVER, WILL YOU BE THE SAME AGAIN, YOU WILL JUST BE A MAN MORE UNHAPPY THAN AS YOU ARE HUNDRED NOW, IT IS THINGS THAT YOU READ THE STORIES, END UP DIVORCING IN 3 or 4 ALOS MORE, FOR NOT BEING ABLE, THE MEMORIES,

ALSO I THINK THAT I WOULD GIVE YOU SOMETHING SCRUPTING TO KISS HER AGAIN, KNOWING EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE WITH THIS GUY, AS SHE IS VAST AUDAS, LAYERS SHE BULLY HIM, IN THE SAME WAY AS YOU, AND I ACHIEVED ITS OBJECTIVE, MAYBE SINCE HOW LONG TIME, THAT'S WHY THIS LAST TIME IS MORE DEMANDING WITH RETURNING TO HIS NATAL CITY,

I WOULD ADVISE YOU, THAT YOU START DOING ENOUGH FISCAL ACTIVITY, IF YOU CANNOT GO OUT FOR A RUN, BUY A TRUNKER, THE FISCICAL ACTIVITY HELPS GREATLY TO CLEAR YOURSELF AND INCREASE YOUR SELF ESTEEM, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SLEEP WELL, AND YOU WILL BEGIN TO SEE A MORE PERSPECTIVE

REMEMBER THIS, WE HAVE BEEN 4 WEEKS, IT IS A LONG TIME AGO, YOU HAVE TALKED WITH THE HUSBAND OF THE SISTER, LAYERS THAT BETWEEN THEY COVER THEIR ADVENTURES,

DO NOT ALLOW ME TO COME BACK AND END ALL CONTACT WITH HER, UNLESS IT IS JUST BECAUSE OF THE CHILDREN, WHICH IS REALLY NOTICED, THAT HE IS NOT SO INTERESTED, SINCE SHE WANTS TO TAKE ALL THE TIME TO THINK, IT IS VERY HARD EXPENSIVE Sorry, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE OR TRY TO BE AS HONEST AS POSSIBLE,

LUCK, AND STRENGTH, YOUR DIGNITY, VALUES AND PRINCIPLES ARE IMPORTANT

I don't understand how your parents wanting to see you once a week is smothering. My dad passed away and I'd give anything to see him once a week. Don't take them for granted, their time here is limited.

^^^ Agree. When I raised my three boys, my inlaws and mother lived an airplane's ride away. I would have given anything for their support and for my children to get to know their grandparents.

I hope you had a conversation with your lawyer today, and please make an appt. with your MD to get tested for STDS and some medication to help you cope. Most of us here have taken medication, temporarily. Your body needs sleep.

Never mind

[This message edited by GoldenR at 7:07 PM, April 12th (Monday)]

[This message edited by GoldenR at 1:07 AM, Tuesday, April 13th]

My consistent thoughts.

Your wife (and you) deserve to be happy. But not at the expense of trashing your family and marriage and lying and cheating.

Most often it’s not the affair that destroys the marriage it is the behavior after dday that causes more damage. As in your cheating g spouse saying she was not aware “there was a timeline”.

Some marriages just cannot survive due to the cheater’s mindset and continued poor choices.

So sorry for you.

Brother, accountability and responsibility. She has to be accountable for her actions. Responsibilities well she is a mother to three children. She has to start supporting them as well. If you are the primary care provider she has to start providing financial support. She can’t do that from unicorn fart land. She has to get a job ASAP!

I am unsure if you have been tested for STDs but she definitely needs to be and show you the proof that she is clear.

Keep up making her own her shit. She knew what she was doing well before she slept with her AP.

One day at a time.