SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey brother,

Mrhealed said and asked some very valid things:

She called.

He said that finally she called him. It means NC before that call.

She didn’t say she loved him.

She didn’t ask to be back with him.

She questioned him about Jenny, and don’t know if she mentioned the other affairs.

She broke the alleged NC...Also, she called to break up for good!! so when she was telling you that she was so sorry in your truck she hadn't broke up with OM for good yet?

Since you are focusing on what you feel you need, they may not really need to be looked at.

Again for clarity I just recommend that you have some conversation with STBX. As hard as it may seem it may give you some answers that you may need. Your marriage, your choice; we are just offering opinions and a differing view.

If you feel you don't have what it would take to R. Tell her that, also just throw it out there that after the D you may date her.

One day at a time

Buffer

AH,

So I think you feel my hesitation maybe because I don't want to R not because it is not possible but because I don't have what it takes to do reconcile.

It's not that I think you don't have what it takes. Not at all. All of us here understand how deeply this kind of betrayal destroys you to your core.

I felt humiliated and emasculated. My pride was shattered I just wanted to disappear

You're SUPPOSED to feel that way.

Right now you are experiencing massive cognitive dissonance, trying to reconcile in your mind the person you thought you knew with the person you are currently dealing with in your STBX. Very natural.

And even deeper within you is the feeling that her betrayal really is a deal breaker. Also very natural.

You can ask as many questions as you can think of and possibly get honest answers from her and what she did still won't make sense.

Even if you D you will still beat yourself up for a while wondering what you could have done to keep your marriage alive. My point is you didn't do anything wrong. At least not as in so far as anything that could have prevented her from straying.

She was fostering that wayward thinking on her own. In spite of you.

I've said previously in your other thread that R is still possible years down the road if that is still what you might want. But for now, although still painful, D will be the first step on your way to actual healing.

When you are done, you are done. If you have a car with a blown head gasket, a slipping transmission and a few good dents it doesn't matter whether the differential is in great shape or not.

No one would pay (emotions) to find out if the differential is still good. It doesn't matter, the car is junk and it would be beyond foolish to waste another dollar (of emotion) on it.

You know enough. It doesn't matter if she legit thought that there was nothing wrong with calling the AP one more time for "closure". I could actually believe that she is more or less telling the truth about the content of the call. It doesn't matter, her head gasket is blown and her trans is slipping. Game over.

The silly bromide that gets thrown around here far too casually is 100 percent of the cheating is on her, but that the marriage problems are shared 50/50. In my opinion, most of the time that turns out not to be true on closer examination. Most of the time it turns out the wayward spouse has been intellectually and emotionally lazy and toxic for some period of time prior to the betrayal, often for years before the betrayal. The faithful spouse has been struggling along in a deteriorating situation.

This is from Thumos one page back, AH. Read his post again.

I've been saying this for years. All marriages have issues. What is important is how they are dealt with or if you even knew about some of them. Issues in a marriage aren't shared 50:50. They are mostly weighted to one side or the other. The only baggage that never gets lost is the baggage brought into the marriage. Who brought the biggest suitcases full and were they ever cleaned out.

Thumos - "The silly bromide that gets thrown around here far too casually is 100 percent of the cheating is on her, but that the marriage problems are shared 50/50. In my opinion, most of the time that turns out not to be true on closer examination. Most of the time it turns out the wayward spouse has been intellectually and emotionally lazy and toxic for some period of time prior to the betrayal, often for years before the betrayal. The faithful spouse has been struggling along in a deteriorating situation."

Thumos - "The wayward spouse often began intentionally sabotaging what was a good marriage before they decided to kill it off with adultery."

This deserves to be posted a second/third time.

Thank you, Dismayed.

I mean it just stands to reason.

We know that most WS's have at least some empathy deficit and tend to be lower EQ. This is shown all the time when a wayward shows up in the wayward forums and numerous 2x4's are required for many of them merely to see common sense.

It makes complete sense that a low-empathy, low EQ wayward partner willing to make deeply narcissistic decisions that carry ramified toxic fallout endangering families and their own spouses' physical wellbeing would also be the weak link in a monogamous partnership.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:47 PM, August 12th (Wednesday)]

It makes complete sense that a low-empathy, low EQ wayward partner willing to make deeply narcissistic decisions that carry ramified toxic fallout endangering families and their own spouses' physical wellbeing would also be the weak link in a monogamous partnership.

I just printed this out and hung it on my office wall. Thank you!

AHG,

I am sure you have been doing a lot of sole searching. Right from the day of discovery, you have stated the’Disrespect’ is too much, the ‘Duration’ is too Long and the ‘Disregard’ of your family is too much for them to get past. Stating, don’t hang around on my account.

Your extended family are swinging both ways, some say give R ago, other say D. Your spiritual guidance is R.

I fully admit it sounds like STBX is at her wits end. She now realises that the consequences of her deliberate DDD, Is a divorce.

However; the spoils of this is that you will most likely loose your business, your son may have to loose his job, and selling of one or both abodes.

Can you recover and re build a new smaller HVAC business?

I am sure your lawyer has said what you most likely will be left with.

Being lost in the dark or fog, now after discovery, I see the light, family is all, I can change, but; well there were issues years before... you need to admit... Also the breaking of NC, for closure.

Only you can move fwd here, is the three Ds too much to work, through?

Is the breaking of NC too much to accept? Yes or No?

Don’t stay for the children’s sake, don’t stay for the business sake and don’t stay for the home sake. Stay and R if You want to that is it!

Disrespect, Duration and Disregard vs your one true love?

One day at a time brother and communicate.

Buffer

Buffer, you summed it all I up in your last post. Yes I feel the disrespect and the duration were too much , I’ll add to that her love for him although she claimed it was all fantasy but reading how she missed him and how they can’t wait to hold each other was a killer for me. Breaking the NC isn’t as much of a factor though, fairer it happened after I made the decision to D so it didn’t matter much and second, after thinking about it and reading Mehealed,’s post I now believe she wanted to end things with The POS, chamomile and Thumos confirmed that the closure seeking wasn’t an unusual behavior from WS.

I came here to get away from it alll, the first 2 days my WW was still harassing me with her messages it took a woman to woman conversation between her and my mom to finally convince her to give me some space. I have to admit that I feel bad for her, I know she did it to herself but I think she’s found her self in a situation that I wouldn’t wish it for my worst enemy. Karma didn’t hold back, she lost the respect of everyone, 2 of her 3 children refuse to talk to her and even my son who is with her now didn’t hide his disappointment with her and want to kick the POS ass. On top of that she is loosing her job that I know she loves. She is in a middle of a disaster and I can do nothing about it. Part of me is dying for her but I keep reminding myself to ignore these feelings and the support I got from you here helped. Every word Thomus writes here gives me a push that I really need.

You are right Buffer, I need to talk to her and that’s the advice I’m getting from my dad to, he said I can’t keep my head in the sand anymore. I’ll probably be back home Sunday night then maybe Monday I’ll sit her down and talk to her.

have to admit that I feel bad for her, I know she did it to herself but I think she’s found her self in a situation that I wouldn’t wish it for my worst enemy.

Of course you feel bad for her. That's totally normal. She was the most important person in your life for a long time. You don't have to hate her to get out of infidelity. However, that doesn't mean you can necessarily trust her, either. Never forget she chose this path. It's tragic-- I agree, I have been right here.

Karma didn’t hold back, she lost the respect of everyone, 2 of her 3 children refuse to talk to her and even my son who is with her now didn’t hide his disappointment with her and want to kick the POS ass.

I don't really believe in Karma, but I agree, it's awful to see someone you cherish fall so low. Sadly, adultery always has a price tag-- and it is usually paid by more than just the person who goes "wayward". This is the price she's having to pay for her selfish decisions. It sucks, but you didn't ask for it, either. You had no agency in her decisions. She gambled on this guy, big time, and lost. I would not ever forget reading their declarations of love and promises to leave their respective spouses. I doubt you will either, just from reading your posts. So yeah, it's sad to see your wife so distraught, but never forget she created this situation.

On top of that she is loosing her job that I know she loves.

Has her company fired her, or asked her to resign, or is the OBS suing her company and pressuring them to let her go? Or is it voluntary, as a demonstration of her commitment?

Make sure your attorney knows this. It could impact settlement.

I’ll probably be back home Sunday night then maybe Monday I’ll sit her down and talk to her.

This is a good idea. You've had some time to process exactly what transpired, when and what the affair meant to her. Just keep your head in the game and lead the conversation, don't start reacting with anger. Listen to what she has to say, all of it. Tell her you get to talk now and don't interrupt with crying. State your position, state your reasons for your position, and any decision you have made. Don't get wrapped up in hysterical bonding, that will almost certainly be what she will want to do at that point.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 10:47 AM, August 13th (Thursday)]

When you sit down to talk to her, set ground rules and boundaries and end the conversation if she will not respect them. It is very likely she will look for you to comfort her and this is inappropriate. Make it clear that you want answers and not hysterical crying or even worse, hysterical bonding. State your expectations and boundaries and walk away if she cannot respect what you've asked. You do not owe her anything and she does at least owe you the answers to any questions that you want to ask.

It is totally normal to feel bad for her. Just don't let it change any decisions that you have made. She could handle lying to you for years, she can handle this.

I’ll add to that her love for him although she claimed it was all fantasy

I get the "it was all fantasy." I understand the projection, etc.

But it's still too difficult for me to accept. I mean, when they were messaging, calling.. was that a fantasy? When they were making plans to meet... was that a fantasy? When they were holding each other, kissing, having sex... was that a fantasy?

Of course not. So, when they were telling each other they love each other and are looking forward to meeting again, why are we supposed to believe that's fantasy?

That's why I don't. Even though I understand they're in the middle of limerence.

It's just too bad for them. They can't claim they didn't mean what they said when they backed up what they said with actions.

I understand wanting to protect her that is how we are made. As I said in an earlier post, the fastest way to heal is probably D. I understand the feeling of being dishonored with aLTA that has been one of the hardest things to overcome. Some days I'm not sure yet. While she was making it official NC with POSOM, I think she was also confronting him about the other side actions. To vent her feelings of anger that she got played. As I said before there is nothing she can do to give you back what she stole. Stay strong you are doing well you can make it.

She seems rather manipulative but it may not be on purpose ;You should probably let her know that as a grown woman who has already made marriage ending decisions she needs to grow up ASAP and stop infantilizing herself .

Ideally your discussion should be limited to her apologizing and your supporting her in becoming less of a train wreck in-front of her more adult children .

Maybe compliment her on things like “the kids really love you for being so good at ————- but you have to step up and show them that you will never let them down again “

( edited for better tone )

[This message edited by siracha at 1:48 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

I will through this in there as well. Not trying to scare you or anything like that, but I think it needs to be said. Talk to those that will be a support for her to insure that she gets into individual therapy. This will be hard on her big time. She is loving everything. Hard falls can lead to desperate and poor choices. We did have a BH whose WW committed suicide because she could not handle the fallout of the affair, losing her husband, the respect of her children, the end of her marriage. Not sure what your stbxw mental state of mind is but have her support system get her into therapy fast.

AHGuy, I hope you can really relax now and enjoy the rest of trip.

maybe Monday I’ll sit her down and talk to her.

What is your goal with the conversation? What are YOU going to get out of this? If you feel like YOU need to talk, then you should. But don't do it solely for your STBXWW's benefit. If there are questions you want her to answer, make sure you are ready to tell her that. And as others said, you are allowed to set rules for yourself and her. You need to focus on your healing and if this isn't helping with that, you should walk away.

Needless to say that when you talk to her she will be very emotional. Probably go all over the place- which would be understandable. But the situation is what it is and your mind is set. So let her talk. I deal with a lot of emotional conversations and do mediations and my best advice is to listen. Just let her talk herself tired and get everything out.

But in the end, say as little as is needed and coolly let her know that this has been too much, for too long and what was said & done too much as well. There is no coming back. Your answers should be short and to the point without emotion or accusation. Just the facts. Facts are hard to argue against.

She needs to be an adult now, accept the situation and move forward in a way that benefits you, her, the kids and your (you & her) finances.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 1:17 PM, August 13th (Thursday)]

It is very likely she will look for you to comfort her and this is inappropriate.

I agree with this. Like the others have said, have a plan, know what you want to get out of this meeting and stick to the plan. You’re in the driver seat.

If you don’t want her to argue about your reasons for D, you don’t have to tell her. You can just say that you thought long and hard and that the whole affair is a deal breaker and you don’t want to discuss your decision any further.

Have a VAR with you.

On top of that she is loosing her job that I know she loves.

What happened to her job???

What happened to her job???

as ChamomileTea asked.

What is it you want to get out of talking with her? What do you think you will gain? If you do talk set limits like others have suggested, AH, communicate them and stick to them.