SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

sorry for long post! Been together with DH for 19 years, married 12. 2 DC, 9 and 6. Very much stuck in a routine for the last few years - I have low sex drive and DH have complained several times about feeling unloved and like we’re in a roommate situation. I make more of an effort when he does but then admittedly get distracted by life and the cycle starts again.

I noticed about 1 1/2 years ago that he made less of an effort too but somehow filed it under ‘things to sort when the kids get older’. About 4 months ago there was a shift in behaviour and he became more protective of his phone etc. I discovered that he had developed a friendship with a woman at work who ‘is in the same situation’ and they ‘just talk’.

It’s slowly crept out that they sometimes meet up for talks when he should be elsewhere and he has now admitted to developing feelings for her. I don’t think they’ve done anything physical yet but as far as I’m concerned he’s emotionally invested in someone else so he’s cheating.

He says he doesn’t want a divorce and he wants to fix things between us. I’ve said he needs to cut all ties with the other woman - stop seeing her, block number etc and also explain to her that he’s doing that because he’s choosing to fight for his wife and family (I’m perhaps naive but hoping she’ll respect that and back off). He said he would do it but then seemed to sway and started saying how ‘it’s not as easy as that’. He says it helps him to speak to her and that he’s in control of the situation and won’t let it go further.

So I gave him an ultimatum and said that if he doesn’t cut the ties I won’t be able to move forward and we’ll need to divorce. He’s been adamant he doesn’t want a divorce so I thought saying that would focus his mind and he says ‘he’ll deal with it’ but still hasn’t broken it off (he’s told her about my ultimatum though). I feel like he wants to keep the cake and to eat it.

It’s only been two days since the ultimatum but I’m not sure what to do, I can’t sleep or eat or focus at work. I really don’t want to lose him or our life together and I feel like I’ve sleepwalked right into this situation. Is it too late to fix things? Is he going to be able to let her go and focus on us? Do I wait for him to hopefully come to his senses or just call it quits?

I work full time in a senior post and am by far the higher earner so I’m not worried about the financial situation (if anything I’ll lose out as majority of house deposit came from my savings and gifted from my parents). I just don’t want to lose him and I don’t want to lose our family unit. We’re a great team and have a lot of fun together - never any arguments and even this situation has been discussed relatively calmly and with no heated words. I’m willing to forgive and work this through but is it too little too late?!

Just to be clear, I don’t think he’s been seeing her for 1 1/2 year, I think he ‘gave up’ at that point and had probably resigned to that we were in a relationship with a lot of love for each other but not in love with each other. He met her about 6 months ago. She has a DC, a little older than ours, and is still with her partner but getting ready to leave I think.

He is refusing therapy after a bad experience when he was younger. I’m open to it but he’s a hard no. He won’t let me see their messages because he doesn’t think it’ll help anything and also says it’s an invasion of his privacy as they were akin to a diary for him. He swears he’s not said things like ‘I love you’ or even ‘I miss you’ but I seriously doubt that. I’m an over analyser and problem solver, so not knowing is killing me but I really can’t walk away either, I love him and I don’t want to break up my family.

Sorry for the ramblings, I am just so confused right now and really need support.

So sorry you are going through this, there are a lot of people here with great advice and experience.

You have done the right thing by giving him an ultimatum, but I would be worried he has not allowed you to see his phone.

There are some me great topics in the reading area on here.

You need to be very stern with your terms on what he needs to do for you to consider making this work. That should include full disclosure from him and access to his phone whenever you need it.

You should think about giving him a timescale to agree to what you need, if he has to think too long about it then he has likely already made his mind up.

Also think about contacting his ap's partner as that might make his situation a little less comfortable.

Good luck 🤞🏼

Was your ultimatum really an ultimatum?

Doesn’t sound like it.

You need to really decide if you want to live like this. Sharing your husband emotionally with another woman. Because this may go on for a long time if you don’t find a way to stop it.

And even if it hasn’t been physical yet, it will get to that.

There are two things you can do that might stop it.

1. Go see a lawyer, and tell him you’ve done that. Make this "real" for him. Right now, the message you’ve sent is that you’re going to let him do this.
2. Get in touch with the woman’s husband and tell him what’s going on. Don’t believe what your husband tells you about the state of her relationship.

If you get this stopped, you then have to get to the bottom of what’s going on, and he has to fix that. Or you’ll spend the rest of your life scared he’ll do it again. Because he will. There’s a hole in his psyche he’s trying to fill. He doesn’t have the right boundaries to be a safe partner.

Most here will recommend therapy for him. Not for you; not for your marriage. For him.

If you come to believe in therapy for him, that has to be included in your ultimatum.

This is all on him. Whatever his dissatisfactions might be, he doesn’t get to use another woman.

But don’t try to get to "why." There are lots of "why’s" he might be doing this.

The central question isn’t why he is doing it; the question is how can he let himself do it.

It is a huge betrayal of you and the children; a huge moral failure. He’s lost his respect for you, and himself. This has to get fixed, somehow.

And if it can’t get fixed, you should move on, as difficult as that will be.

This is going to sound off the wall. Have you always had a low sex drive? If not then seeing a sex therapist might help. If he wants you to respond to him sexually he might need to learn how to help you do that. Love is a verb. How you two show love to each other is very important.

Right now your h has butterflies in his stomach because of the new feelings has for the OW. It goes with the ritual of courting, which this sounds like. He should be expending that energy on your relationship. It sounds like he loves you but desire can die without BOTH of you working on it. Making demands might take this underground. Be careful with ultimatums. They can trip you up. In this case I think marriage counseling is a start but learning how to be sex partners should not be ignored.

Reverse the situation.

You give your kids an ultimatum. They don’t do what you asked.

If there aren’t consequences they will:

1. Lose respect for you

2. Know they don’t have to listen to you

3. Know your words mean nothing

And thus, you have lost all power and control. You will be treated like a doormat. Because you are viewed as someone who can be taken advantage of.

For decades I used to ask my H to have accountability for his time. He’d say I have a client meeting and be home 11 pm and waltz in the door at 1 am. Lame excuse. I asked him not to do it as it’s rude blah blah blah.

Nothing changed. So I gave up.

Fast forward he is MIA one night from 5 pm on. I KNEW on my gut something was up. Yup he came home and (at least) was honest when I asked where he had been.

Six months later when he refused to stop cheating I told him I was D him. It was not an ultimatum it was an ACTION. I had a very well planned exit strategy.

We were able to Reconcile but the change in dynamics in our marriage is very obvious. Now, my H wouldn’t dare be late w/out letting me know, he tells me where he is etc.

Because he’s now afraid I will leave him.

He’s apologized for all the years of disrespect and lack of communication. He’s a very different person now. Because I finally refused to accept his bullshit lying and cheating and lack of accountability.

I hope this helps you.

I’m not telling you to D him. But you had better back up your words w/ some action and consequences or else he will continue to cheat. Ask me how I know.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:00 PM, Sunday, February 2nd]

Welcome to SI and I'm so sorry that you've been bludgeoned by infidelity. There are some posts pinned to the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read. There are also some with bull's eye icons that are helpful. The Healing Library is at the top of the page and has a ton of great resources.

He should read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. Another good resource is Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass.

Sorry that you're here.

Thank you for your helpful comments.

I told him a few days ago that I was contacting divorce lawyers and he begged me not to and said he ‘would sort it’ (referring to the cutting ties). He has always reacted very poorly to being told what to do, and to being pushed into anything (hence my panic after giving him an ultimatum) so I thought I would leave it with him for a week and bring it up again next weekend when he’s had ample time to call it off with her.

He says he doesn’t see it as cheating but can understand why I do. He has bonded with her over their unhappy marriages (hers sounds worse to be fair) and I think he’s worried about losing his ‘person that he speaks to about it’. I think he does want to fix things with us but worries that things will go back to the way they were and I suppose he thinks that if they do and he’s cut ties then he has no plan B. Which doesn’t make me overly confident about his optimism about us so I am still planning to speak to a divorce lawyer this week to see what information I need, if that is the route we end up going down.

I see that some people say to contact her partner and let him know but I worry that doing so would a) escalate the breakdown of their relationship which might make her push my H to leave me, and/or b) make me seem really vindictive and spiteful, which I know my H would not be impressed with. When I said I wanted to speak to her he said that he didn’t think that was right and it’s not her fault he’s done what he has, which in fairness is true.

It’s all so surreal. We’ve had a lovely weekend with the kids and he’s been talking about the future and various things that we’ve planned for the next few years. Lots of hugs and kisses, and even sex this morning - I’m so confused about it all. It’s like we’re talking about someone else and not us. Part of me wishes I had never found out and maybe it would have fizzled out by itself as I think he genuinely doesn’t want a divorce - he’s from a broken home and always said he would never do that to his children…

Be careful, this is how my ww started and now it's a full on A and they are planning their future together.

You need him to end it with her immediately and fully. Break all contact with her and get full access to his phone. Write a message to her together and watch him send it.

He cannot concentrate on you while it carries on. Be prepared for him to make more excuses and lies though. There are plenty of other ways he can discuss his issues.

Also consider they may have been physical so be careful with your sexual health.

I would still think about telling her H, I was in his position and finding out was the best thing that could have happened to me. It's then up to them.

I know it's hard but you have to be sure it's over for your own peace of mind or you will always have doubts as much as you want to believe him.

Good luck 🤞🏼

Please don’t think because you had a great weekend together he’s stopped cheating.

I was in the same situation you were. You can imagine my shock when I thought we were over the worst of it all and reconciling to later learn HE PLANNED TO D ME the whole time.

Right now - you are letting him call the shots. I’m suggesting that is a bad idea snd I know many betrayed spouses will agree with me.

He either ends it TODAY or you ask him to move out or you see the D attorney.

If he’s sooooo afraid of losing you, he will get his act together. If he does t, he never had any intention of being monogamous and ending the affair.

DancingDoll, your story struck a cord with me. it's one thing to get caught cheating. and yes, talking to another woman about you and your marriage, or anything else for that matter is cheating. any kind of conversation with another person that you, his spouse, is not privy to is cheating. but to refuse to give up that relationship knowing it hurts you takes it to a whole other level for me. this isn't a damn buffet. you don't get to pick and choose.
if he wants his marriage, the OW needs to go, immediately. no if's and but's about it. there is no room for negotiations there. he is willingly doing something he knows hurts you, every day. every time he talks to her, he knows he is disrespecting his wife. and he will keep doing it as long as you let him. i don't think coming off as vengeful by telling OW's husband should concern you. he has the right to know what his wife is doing.
and you have the right to fight for your marriage, as long as that is what you want. but the longer this situation goes on, the more pain and humiliation you endure by putting yourself on the sidelines by allowing him to continue this relationship with her, the bumpier that fight will be.
most marriages consist of two people. if she had an ounce of decency, she would not be having intimate conversations with a married man. and i would bet my paycheck if he won't show you the texts, they are intimate and inappropriate conversations.
put yourself first, you deserve respect and honesty from him. you shouldn't have to play second fiddle in your own marriage. take care of yourself and know that you deserve much more than what he is offering you by confiding in another woman about your private life. he should be talking to you about those issues, not a stranger.

I’m sorry you find yourself here, in this mess. You found the best support sight available though, and much earlier in the process than I did.

You have already been given great cautionary advice. I will add to the caution. I thought they were "just friends" who had had an old fling, while they were continuing their relationship during work hours and talking on apps I didn’t know were on his phone. So many secrets and lies. The digital trail ultimately got them, and my nagging feeling that things weren’t making sense. I also desperately wanted to understand what I had missed in our relationship and who my WH truly was. He hid himself very well. He loves me, and he always wanted the comforts of this marriage, but he wanted a secret relationship too. He pretended to appease me, pretended to hear my threats to D if they broke NC, and the charade went on for months. They had no plans to give each other up yet. Like yours, mine has a problem with being told what to do. He lives his life on his terms, always has. I just thought there was more of us in his terms than there really was. There was a them I did not understand. She would cry and beg him to keep seeing her whenever they talked about it ending. It took me quite a while to realize they had a complicated relationship and were not willing to let it go.

Not until I found an email from her and responded did she back off. It is highly unpopular here to interact with the OW, but in this case, the MOW was terrified of risking her status and M with exposure and she scurried away for good. I had already given my ultimatums, made my threats to my WH, but didn’t realize I was unable to walk away from my life as I knew it, any more than they were ready to walk away from their "friendship". Once my WH knew I really knew the score, and had threatened the other family with exposure, he never gave her a backward glance and I got the NC I believed was already in place. But my inability to see what was being concealed, my inability to turn off my feelings for my H, my fear of losing my life as I knew it, my lack of suspicion of anything beyond what was told, they cost me almost another year of being cheated on and a couple more of being lied to while I dug out the truth.

So what now? Be vigilant, be militant, think like you are in a battle for what you deserve and are worth, do not assume, do not trust, but watch and be wary. Let him know he is on the precipice of losing everything because he risked everything. Without full digital disclosure, trust nothing you are told. Being caught did nothing to turn off the lies and manipulation, they in fact ramped it up while I stewed in emotional trauma and shock. Looking back, I wonder why I reacted in many of the ways I did, and I understand now, how we were both reacting in fear and shock. Given a do-over, I would have stepped away to allow both of us to decide who and what we really wanted in our lives. My WH always said it was me, but it wasn’t enough me at the time to give up the side chick. Maybe your WH is telling you the truth, maybe he already removed his head from his backside, and I hope you are one of the lucky ones.

Be careful, be wary, focus on yourself and do not allow him to love bomb or manipulate you yet. Get your bearings, have a contingency plan for the best and worst case scenarios. Get into therapy if you aren’t already and focus on loving yourself the way you deserve to be loved. Best to you.

Whistleblowers are the best, and have great courage.

Without somebody willing to expose what is going on, many of us would still be oblivious to our partners' duplicity and lies.

He has always reacted very poorly to being told what to do....

How are you telling him what to do? Your 'ultimatum' just says what you will do if he keeps up his relationship with ow.

You may not be ready to pull the plug, but the ultimatum is exactly what you need to do at some point. The single most basic action a WS can take to R is to go NC (No Contact) with the ap. That's not the only thing required by R, but it's the 1st and easiest thing to do. If your WS isn't willing to go NC, they're a lousy candidate for R.

A 2nd requirement form most WSes is IC with a goal of changing from cheater to good partner. That requires developing insight into what the WS needs to do to stop enabling themself to cheat - and they have to engage in the actions to change from one to the other. That's hard work for anybody. A good IC can help. Besides, what will your H do to change? Holding on to the ap is not a good start.

¬¬¬Let's go back to basics:

I recommend thinking of R as 3 healings:

1) You heal you. Most BSes are inundated with immense amounts of grief, anger, fear, and/or shame on d-day. The largest part of your work is to process those feelings out of your body. A good IC can help you do this.

2) Your WS heals themself. They need to change from cheater to good partner. I think that requires IC for the WS, but others disagree.

3) Together you build a new M.

This means you can recover from being betrayed without your WS; that is, you can survive this crisis and thrive without your WS, but you need your WS to R(econcile). You can heal yourself because you control yourself. You don't control your WS. I recommend making survive and thrive your primary goal and R your stretch goal.

Have you read the Healing Library here? If not, there's a lot of good stuff there. Click the link in the yellow box in the upper left of the SI pages.

I think there are a number of keys ingredients to the decision to R.

First, what do you want? Do you really want R? If not, don't lie to yourself. R is hard work, and wanting it makes it less difficult, but both D and R are moral responses to being betrayed.

If you want R, I recommend figuring out your requirements for R and seeing if your W will sign on. If they won't, perhaps they can come up with something else that will meet your requirements, but if you can't negotiate something truly acceptable to both of you, great - you can go directly to D. Otherwise, you can monitor them for 3-6 months and commit to R for yourself if they are (is?) consistent in meeting your requirements.

The requirements need to be observable and measurable. That way it's easy to monitor progress and make adjustments as you go along.

Common requirements include:

NC - no contact with ap; if ap initiates contact, report to BS and together decide how to respond

Transparency - BS has passwords to e-mail, voice-mail, phones, etc.; WS keeps BS informed of whereabouts, activities, and companions at virtually all times

Honesty - WS answers BS's questions when they're asked, although sometimes a break is necessary, sometimes an answer is best deferred to MC session, etc., no more lies.

IC for WS - to change the thoughts and feelings that supported the A, with signed release that enables C to talk with BS about WS's goals and progress (so the BS can make sure WS's IC isn't being lied to).

IC for BS - for support - and for resolving any internal issue that comes up

MC - to help communications between the partners, if one or both partners want MC

Some (Most?) people have individual requirements - my W had to arrange dates for us on a weekly basis and must initiate sex sometimes. What do you want from your W?

And R is a joint endeavor - if one of you hides objections to the other's requirements, you sabotage R. And you have to see your WS as a human being of worth equal to your own to make R work. You don't have to see your WS as a human being equal to you to recover, but you sure can't R, except with an equal. Right now, I'm not sure your WS aees you as his equal.

R is very rewarding when both partners want it an do the work. It seems to be hell on earth, though, unless both do that work. Being betrayed is bad enough - spare yourself the pain unless you want the reward and have a partner who will join you in the process.

He says he doesn’t see it as cheating but can understand why I do. He has bonded with her over their unhappy marriages (hers sounds worse to be fair) and I think he’s worried about losing his ‘person that he speaks to about it’.

I remember back when it was me who was so new to infidelity, how reasonable my WH's explanations sounded. Like you, I was pretty calm about it. Upon confrontation, I told him I planned to divorce and that I wasn't interested in hearing his excuses, I was done and we could do this the easy way or the hard way, and then I just went about my business. It took him about a week to screw up his nerve to ask me for time to prove himself, which he then screwed up when I caught him in contact again with the OW. At that point, he had about thirty seconds to decide if he was 'all in' or 'all out'. He must've seen blood in my eye because he ghosted the OW and never looked back.

Once we started talking, I was surprised to find myself often empathizing with my WH's side of things. Here's what I learned after some time had passed though... his reasoning was self-serving and mostly bullshit. Look at what you posted in the quote box above. Do you think for one minute that if the shoe were on the other foot, and it was you who had been discovered in an inappropriate emotional (and possibly sexual) relationship that he wouldn't see it as cheating? Does that pass the smell test? And he's "bonded with her over their unhappy marriages" so he doesn't want to give that up, but if his unhappy marriage is the problem, how does continuing his inappropriate relationship with someone else fixing his unhappy marriage? Clearly, the marriage isn't what's uppermost in his mind. If he needs to speak to someone who isn't you, wouldn't a therapist be in order at this point in time and more conducive to marital repair?

It's hard to step back and analyze these things when you're fresh and raw in the early days of discovery. There's a part of us which really wants to believe the things we're hearing, even to the point of taking on the blame. If the cheating was our fault, we're in a position to change whatever it was we were doing wrong. When it's our fault, we have control. But cheating is about the cheater. It's not about us. Talking to a coworker doesn't solve the problem of getting more sex, does it? Not unless he's planning on getting the sex from the coworker. His actions don't match up with his excuses.

When we take into account that people don't always realize that they're bullshitting themselves, we can say that maybe it's understandable that a WS might take the wrong action in search of a solution to his problems, but that was then and this is now. Now, it's exceptionally clear that talking to a coworker doesn't solve the problem of lopsided libidos or whatever other issues are in play at home. So, now what action does he plan to take to solve the problem?

Confrontations aren't easy, but it really sounds like your WS is still deluding himself. It's hard not to get caught up in it, believe me I know. I do think that it's okay to confront when what you're hearing is clearly not rational. I don't think it hurts your ultimatum to require him to clarify his position.

((hugs))

I’m sorry you are facing infidelity with a person who refuses to be HONEST with you.

If there is nothing wrong with his behavior - why wasn’t he honest with you from the very beginning?

Because he KNEW it was wrong.

Please do not fall for the "I did nothing wrong" mentality.

My H had a 4 year in person EA (before cell phones and texts) that I KNEW ABOUT and he denied. It FINALLY ended w/ no consequences and rug swept. He never admitted a thing. No apology. No remorse. No guilt.

And THAT made it easier for him to start his second affair. Because there were no consequences from the first.

I learned from the second OW that my H admitted to her that he cheated on me with the first OW. Something he never admitted to me!

The lesson I learned was that I was too kind and too forgiving to someone who didn’t deserve it.

Your H is basically asking for permission to cheat. Don’t allow it. I did. Big mistake. I had to undo years of being a doormat during affair #2.

Can he explain how speaking to her about your marital issues is helping his marriage?
It’s a valid question. Instead of a coworker then imagine he was paying a counselor for relationship-advice. Like... if he came home from an hours "session" with her and did the dishes, cleaned the floors and then ordered in Chinese with a chilled bottle of Chablis and offered a shoulder massage while watching Love Actually cuddling on the couch... then I would maybe be OK with her "help".

But... if all he does is find reasons to talk to her, and therefore finding faults in you is to his benefit, then this is definitely not helping in any way possible.
I strongly think it’s the later, and this is at the very least an emotional affair.

--
Tell him that if he needs a Plan B in a marriage then he might just as well divorce right now. Marriage is a commitment. Granted, you might reach a stage where you no longer want that commitment, but while married you commit. Wanting a Plan B is a bit like sitting down together to do a budget, and putting 20 bucks aside per month into a fund called "potential divorce fund", as well as 20 into a "our 10 year anniversary vacation". It’s like placing bets both on red and black in roulette.

--

The BIG problem I see again and again about emotional affairs is how hard it is for many to recognize them as affairs. The go-to book has already been mentioned: Not just Friends. If your husband has a hard time seeing this as infidelity then maybe the following might work:
Ask that the two of you listen TOGETHER to this book and do the assignments. If he still doesn’t see what he is doing as damaging... well...

You could also get professional help, only ask the counselor if they acknowledge the theories of Shirley Glass (not just friends) and their stance on emotional affairs. If they don’t acknowledge them as an issue – shop around for someone else.

--
The worst thing about ultimatums is not following them through. Telling him that if he keeps seeing her and you will divorce, and then telling him that if he sees her AGAIN you will divorce and this time you mean it... well... not so good.
Instead of ultimatums you could say something like: "This ongoing relationship with this person makes me question your commitment to me and our marriage. I recognize there are issues in our relationship and think WE should discuss them and try to fix. We can do this together and/or with the help of a professional, but not with one-sided conversations with a third-party. If you cant do that then MY belief in us and our marriage will diminish, leading to an inevitable divorce."

What this does it allows you to decide when YOU have had enough. Only... be honest with yourself and his actions. If he still insists on talking to her... it is a clear message.

Get the "how to help your spouse heal" book, read it and give it to him. Tell that is how to heal the marriage. Healing will not happen if he continues contact with his "friend".

Plan your exit, work with an attorney. Best to be prepared. Sometimes divorce papers makes a WS realize how serious you are, you did give him an ultimatum, you need to follow through.

Thank you everyone for your kind and thoughtful comments. I’ve read and re-read them all, considering all the advice and doing some serious soul-searching.

I think I am in a similar position to someone who said they weren’t ready to give up everything they had just yet, and I won’t be rephrasing it as an ultimatum until I really am ready to take that step. I will, however, have another conversation with him this weekend to ask if he has cut all ties like he promised he would and, if he hasn’t, I will say that I am willing to work on our relationship but not while there is a third person involved and so I will focus on me and healing myself. And that if he doesn’t end all contact with her then eventually it will lead to a divorce as we will never be able to heal until then.

I’ve been very clear that while I accept responsibility for our relationship being in a bad place, the choice to engage with someone else and alllow himself to develop feelings for her was entirely his, and if he chooses to continue that then that again is his decision and not something he can blame me for. Ultimately, if our relationship does break down it will be because of his choices and actions, not mine.

I am looking for a counsellor to talk things through with but I am a bit bamboozled with the different types of therapy on offer and unsure what kind of therapist to go with. Can anyone recommend a style and what that involves? I’m in the UK if that makes any difference.

As far as I can see he hasn't actually done anything to address the situation yet, just mumble "It isn't that easy" on a regular basis as a lame excuse for his inactivity. I get the feeling that he's hoping that if he stonewalls you for long enough you will eventually give up and he will be able to carry on the way he has been (and still is, by the sound of it). In other words, he's trying to preserve the status quo.

I think you need to make it clear that he's stalled you for long enough and that "It isn't that easy" always was a pathetic excuse and is no longer acceptable (To be honest, I don't think it ever was acceptable and you made your situation worse by letting him get away with it unchallenged the first time he uttered it). I think you need to use the phrase "All chat, no action" the next time you speak to him and make it absolutely clear that unless he starts actually working on saving your marriage immediately then it's over.

And, most of all, mean it! If you allow even one more stalling tactic after issuing an ultimatum then you've lost and this will still be going on in weeks/months/years.

[This message edited by Attlas at 3:37 PM, Friday, February 7th]

Just lending words of support for you as you make the tough but necessary decision to give him an ultimatum. I hope that your standing firm and communicating boundaries results in the shift in behavior on his part that you want.

As hard as this is and as scary the uncertainty might be, I can share from experience that when I was in your shoes 12 years ago, everyone on SI gave me advice to do just what you are doing. And I didn't. I was afraid and hurt and made all the choices that in hindsight turned out to be wrong. And now I'm divorcing my husband after DD#2, and wondering what could have been if I'd just done what you are doing. It might have saved our marriage by forcing the real work to happen...or I might have decided to D and have moved on with my life 12 years sooner.

Hope you can find some ways to relax and care for yourself this weekend! Hang in there.