SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:10 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

He won’t allow me full access to his phone/laptop, although he does tell me the code but he doesn’t like me looking through it because it’s an ‘invasion of privacy’

After infidelity all bets are off on the "invasion of privacy" How do you rebuild that trust without verifying? It doesn't have to be forever but access to the electronic devices was a requirement for me. There are still other ways they can get around it as my xWS did with a burner phone so it's not always foolproof.

Another boundary I would lay down is no contact with the EA partner and no more conversations with females. He shouldn't be discussing how you are doing with another female it's none of their business.

It takes a long time to get over an A at least 2-5 years and I would say more on the 5 year end. He has totally turned your lives upside down.

Make sure he sees an IC to figure out why he would allow himself to betray you and your children in this way and the blame isn't on the partnership it's something in him. Some excuse he gave himself to have the ONS. Also have him read "Not Just Friends" and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair."

You should also see your own IC (Individual Counselor). Marriage Counseling is something you do when the M is having problems not the infidelity that is an individual issue.

Take your time to explore your feelings and maybe not put R on the table for a few years until you see big changes from him. You may also decide it was a dealbreaker and that is ok too.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 5:29 PM, Wednesday, November 20th]

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:10 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

This sound a lot like my WS's behavior after dday (his was a 3 year LTA, not a ONS), down to "I was hoping you'd change your mind about that." Doing the bare minimum. Moping around and feeling sorry for himself a lot. Asking to have privacy. And guess what - he was holding stuff back. There was false R for 2.5 months, but also secrets kept for months after. I'm so sorry, torturedpoet. This is very typical stuff for some WS's. I had to get serious about leaving the marriage multiple times, and each time, he'd shape up for a while and then slide back into poor habits or pick up new bad habits. We are now 2 years past dday1, and I'm going to separate and move out.

R works best when the WS is truly remorseful and giving 100% to repairing the marriage. The ones who don't take initiative and who are genuinely interested in discovering what's wrong with themselves and making improvements. The BS can only do so much.

I'm so sorry you find yourself here and in such a terrible situation. It's hard to break up a marriage when you have young kids! That's one of the main reasons I've tried to make it work. I think you're going to have take some drastic action to shake him out of his comfort zone.

You said: "My dilemma now is, I can’t decide whether to keep trying, whether to dig my heels in about these things that are bothering me, whether to just accept the good that he is doing and take that for now."

I suggest not just digging in your heels but also making a plan to exit and letting him know you're serious about it. It's often said around here that you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. I'll add that there's still no guarantees, but it's often the kick in the pants that a WS needs to get serious.

Good luck, hugs, and stay strong!

Based on what you've said, I'd be suspicious of him cheating again too.

His actions, as described, don't reflect someone earnestly trying to change and keep their relationship.

I'd definitely advise you to continue being cautious here.

I'm sorry this happened to you and wish you any strength you believe you need (and any clarity you need for your eyes).

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:10 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

I'd be worried about his cheating right now. After all, he denies he had an EA. He chooses his work travel over you, and you know he at least talks with other women. He chooses his work travel over changing from known cheater to good partner, which is the goal of IC for WSes, IMO.

IME, it helped at least a bit to ask myself why I do dysfunctional things, to ask what my goals are for the dysfunctional behavior, to ask if the goal is worthwhile or if there's a better way to achieve the goals.

What do you accomplish for yourself by avoiding conflict? Is that a worthwhile goal? Are there better ways to achieve those goals?

By not demanding your WS live up to his promises to you, are you serving him well? Would it perhaps be better for both of you to require him to leave or step up and keep his promises?

As it is, your H is free to do what he pleases - including dumping you if he finds someone he likes better. My reco: Protect yourself.

Please remember that MC therapists may try to repair the relationship at all costs and shift some of the blame to you. You ARE NOT responsible for his choice to cheat - that was 100% his choice.

he’s not listening to me

That means he doesn't want to hear what you have to say. Either he doesn't value you as a person, or he's an a-hole and wants his own way.

Don't worry about making him feel bad. There are some very nasty STDs/STIs out there that can put YOUR LIFE at risk, and he was willing to do that.

you’re a terrible person and I hate you

That's a manipulation tactic and he's taking advantage of how nice and empathetic you are. Fell into that trap for many years.

Right now, concentrate on you and your healing, as well as your children. Your WH is responsible for his own healing. He's capable of doing that - if he wants to change, he will.

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:10 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:11 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

If I can add another piece of advice.

Right now YOU need to be driving this train towards reconciliation. You should make YOUR needs top priority - otherwise you cannot heal.

Unfortunately too many cheaters think "ok I’m busted BUT I’m not going to do X or Y or Z". That mentality in thinking their life will go on as usual is like a knife to the betrayed. They should understand that life as they know it is over.

If you need him to stop traveling for a period of time, it is not negotiable. Period. If he refuses to honor your requests for anything you need, then you need to evaluate whether you can HAPPILY reconcile and rebuild trust.

I want to add my opinion that often it is not the affair that kills the marriage, but the behavior of the cheater after discovery if the affair(s) that does.

If you need access to his phone or computer, you should get it. Too bad if the cheater does not like it. And if the cheater refuses, it’s because they still have something to hide IMO.

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:11 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

You sound so much like me that it hurts, torturedpoet! It takes time to gain the inner strength to make non-neogtiable demands. I lasted 2 years and 4 ddays. I made those demands at last today and asked for separation. Some of the most successful R stories seem to be the ones where the WS was kicked out for a while. They need to really feel the consequences of their actions. It is completely awful for the BS, for the children, and anyone else in that orbit, but getting it all out in open can shake loose the last of the delusions the WS is operating under. *You* have to stop being afraid of him leaving. It is not easy! Believe me, I know.

Based on what you've written, I think you're on the path to arriving at the same conclusion. Yes, you will feel horrible about causing him pain because you are a kind and empathetic person. You will also feel horrible about causing your children pain. If you want to shelter them and don't mind a cover story (tell them dad's on a very long trip or something), then you can try that for a while to spare the kids. But I can almost guarantee you that kicking your WS out will accomplish a lot more than being nice.

I've recently been listening to a concept album that's a musical interpretation of The Odyssey, and there's a bit in there that I've been thinking about a lot lately: "You are far too nice. Mercy has a price. Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves."

I suggest reading about co-dependence. I think it will resonate with you, and if it does, you have a roadmap to getting healthy. 'Resonate' means 'see yourself' or 'emphatically refuse to see yourself'.

A WS who expects the WS to be nice is not a good candidate for R, yet you expect yourself to be nice because of the minimal things he does some of the time. If co-dependence doesn't resonate, read about the 'Drama Triangle'.

A piece of feedback. You describe a WS who doesn't look like a good partner to me. That's how I read your words. Are you aware that your words can be read as pretty damning?

You say the payoff for you is, 'I don't feel bad about making other people feel bad, but obviously I'm stuck swimming in my own bad feelings then....' Those are 2 pretty powerful payoffs, except that you don't make other people feel bad (they do it to themselves), and it can be pretty comfortable, but really delf-harming, to swim in one's own bad feelings. BTDT - still do, sometimes, but recognizing it helps me get back to authenticity, solving problems, and feeling good about myself and life.

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:11 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

I wish I could just leave sometimes, without giving him so many chances. And I wish he wouldn't take the chances I've given him so far for granted.

Why can't you? What is stopping you from making decisions for your own benefit?

As long as he knows he can do whatever he wants and you will continue to draw lines in the sand, nothing will change.

What can help you find your voice?

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:12 PM, Saturday, April 18th]

Repeating what NTV says:

Based on what you've said, I'd be suspicious of him cheating again too.

His actions, as described, don't reflect someone earnestly trying to change and keep their relationship.

I'd definitely advise you to continue being cautious here.

I'm sorry this happened to you and wish you any strength you believe yo

u need (and any clarity you need for your eyes).

I grew up with two cheating parents - screwed up my perception of reality. Just ONE cheating parent will affect the family dynamic. How is this family life affecting your kids?

Suggest you start a savings account for yourself. Go see a lawyer and find out what life looks like if you make a decision to stop allowing hubby to disrespect you, your children, and your matrimonial vows.

Read SISSON's post regarding co-dependency again.

Suggest also you see your physician and provide your sexual scenario so a long-term plan for your continued heath can be plotted.

Last suggestion - steel yourself to find out he is still cheating.

I forgot this: check into the fear vs reality thread in the D/S (Divorce/Separation forum here. You're likely to find it enlightening and encouraging.

In stating what you want, you've taken a good step toward living a good life. You don't control your H, but you can read his response. If he agrees to your terms, great - R is possible. If he doesn't, great - R is virtually impossible. You don't have to like the 2nd option, but it's better to know what you're dealing than to wonder about it.

.

[This message edited by torturedpoet at 11:12 PM, Saturday, April 18th]