SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello.

I hope I don't have to repeat my story too much so far. I'm not sure who has read it. Maybe a quick summary.

Arrived here 4 years ago after an HPV spot in my mouth. He denied ANY wrongdoing, except looking at half naked Instagram and tumblr photos, liking and commenting. I stupidly chose to believe him. Other issues like lying, heavy drinking, spending, continued. More recently his inappropriate behavior around a family friend made me suspicious. I found a LOT of visits to porn sites, but also stumbled on his Google maps timeline going back to mid-2015. Not knowing how accurate it is, but seeing stops at a number of different local hotels over the years and some bouncing between 2 different hotels during out of town work trips. Quite a decent amount of suspicious stops.

I've been scouring every bit of this timeline and documenting it. This is for me. For me to know whatever I can. Once I know it all I am confronting him. 2 adult kids know, 2 more will know shortly. I have a check for stds coming in early august. I'm now searching receipts, phone bills and credit card statements. It's taking a while because I don't want him clued in until I'm ready.

Just found a handwritten note with 20 different names of women. When I search a few of them at once, I get (website address deleted by staff) as the website. Anyone familiar with this? At this point I'm trying to find out if it is all virtual or he has graduated to sex workers. I tracked him just yesterday via Google maps timeline to a hotel about 90 minutes away. He was supposed yo be working....visiting clients. Of course in the back of my mind I'm concerned that many of these "stops" were inaccurate. I turned my own tracking on so I could see how accurate it is. It's maybe 75% accurate I would estimate. But this list is handwritten. That's different. My gut tells me he is paying for things, just not sure what.

I know it's not really healthy to keep this up so long, and I *should* have enough proof at this point. I want as much as I can get though. I want it to be irrefutable.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:59 PM, Thursday, July 25th]

Does Maps track in real time, or are you looking at his phone after the fact? The biggest revenge fantasy I had was wishing that I had discovered the A before he knew that I knew so that I could show up at the hotel where he was with the AP and take his truck. I imagined him coming out to an empty parking space, reporting it stolen, and then trying to explain that one away... Anyway...

If you think he's paying for sex, or even if he's just paying for hotels with an AP, it sounds like you need a forensic accountant. He's probably spending a small fortune on hotels, and possibly sex workers. Better to try to mine that out while he's still oblivious, before he has a chance to try to cover his tracks. Do you have the resources to hire a PI? That might be the best place to start.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 7:33 PM, Wednesday, July 24th]

You do what you need to do for your peace of mind. OTOH, you are pain shopping. He has already showed you he is not worth your time. He should not be in a committed relationship. If you can move on, move on. You will love being on the other side.

OTOH, you are pain shopping.

I thought that too, at first, but if there's a possibility of being awarded some of the funds that he spent on his infidelity, it might be worth some more digging. If that's not the case, then no more proof is needed and BRB is putting up roadblocks because she's not ready to make the decision to leave.

Short of actually catching him in the act, you already have irrefutable evidence.

EDIT:

So who are you trying convince... him or yourself?

If you want to be able to confidently say "gotcha!" to him, I'm sorry, but he's just not going to admit it, no matter how much evidence you have, especially because he's a serial cheater. In fact, even if you did catch him in the act, he sounds like the type who would say "It wasn't me!"

If you're trying to convince yourself that he's cheating, then it's just a matter of believing what you already know.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:52 PM, Wednesday, July 24th]

I'm sure I'm in denial. 35 years together. The only man I've ever been with. He always said the nicest things to me and about me. Had pet nicknames for me and declared how much he hated being away from home. We laugh so much together that everyone tells us we should have our own youtube channel together. We drink our coffee together every morning, and watch tv every night on the couch. But ultimately it is all for show. He showed me what he really was when he behaved as if I, and our kids, were an annoyance. I bought that show hook line and sinker until that dentist said HPV 4 years ago. The other day he made a comment about Hugh Grant being the biggest idiot ever because he had Elizabeth Hurley and threw it all away. It took all I could muster to not let my eyes roll up into my brain permanently.

I don't WANT this to be true. It means 35 years of my life were a complete fucking lie.

BRB,

Your life wasn’t a lie. His was.

Instead of expending energy finding out more cheating, maybe spend that on getting your ducks in a row and in IC.
I was with my XWS for 2 years and he had a 2 year PA and I suspect others but never got proof. So I get how hard it is to leave someone after being with them for so long. It was HARD. But I did it and love my life now. It is possible, and is even likely.

Focus on you. Focus on your mental health, physical health, and spiritual health. Focus on your future. You know enough. You know enough.

Sending strength-

You already know that it's true because of the HPV. I know how strong that denial can be. I had Trichomoniasis and twisted myself into a pretzel trying to make it mean anything other than my H had cheated on me. I convinced myself that it had lain dormant since before we married a decade earlier or I had picked it up somewhere else, which is possible with Trich, but highly improbable. I believed my own nonsense, too, for a long time - until he confessed years later to cheating during that timeframe. Boy, did I feel stupid. And like I had betrayed myself.

Combined with the history of hotel visits, you have plenty of proof. I second the suggestion to get your ducks in a row and start IC. Don't betray your gut. It's trying to help you.

Gently, you already have all the proof you need.

Without a doubt he's going to deny, how much proof can you show him?

Honestly, I'd meet with a great attorney asap and get advice on how to proceed.

IMO he's putting on a great show and has been leading a double, secret life for a long time.

Get your ducks in a row first before you confront him.

I'm sorry. :(

I think this is my biggest worry. We have some pretty high credit card debt and 90% is him. I handed over bill paying to him 18 years ago because I was sick of another chore being mine. So I lost control of finances and debt which was a huge mistake. Our house I built, as in I was the general contractor. Saved us 40k. The property was bought from my family member at a SUBSTANTIAL discount. In short, the house we live in, that only has maybe 10 years left on the mortgage, was ALL my doing. Yes, he paid the bulk of the mortgage (with my help) because he makes substantially more than i do because i needed to be there for our kids, but we would absolutely not have our home without me and my family. I do NOT want to give it up, and I don't want his damn credit card debt.

I do NOT want to give it up, and I don't want his damn credit card debt.

Of course you don't want to lose the home you created and of course you don't want his debt. This is exactly why you need to see an attorney immediately. It is the only way that you will get a clear picture of what you are facing financially.

You can bet he has been squandering marital assets.

I understand the trepidation of a grey divorce and the anxiety about the financial fallout. It was unbelievable to me when I found myself, in my mid 50s. sitting in a lawyer's office. Unbelievable that I was considering divorcing the love of my life. But even before I had proof, my gut knew that he was living a double life and I could not live that way.

Your gut knows too.

See a lawyer and get some facts. My ex made 3X what I earned and it truly all worked out,

Make the call tomorrow. You have the courage and honey, don't you want to stop this endless investigation?

I do want to be done. My life consists of working, watching my grandkids and investigating every free moment I get that he isn't home. The things I love....my garden, my home, enjoying life, taking care of myself, they have all fallen by the wayside since June 17th. I'm so tired.

So if I can put this all together...

1. You've been together for 35 years.

2. You enjoy your time with him (the coffee comment).

3. But he is and has been a continual cheater.

4. You are gathering evidence...

5. And are telling your adult children...

6. But you don't want a divorce (don't want to lose your house, lose the only man you've ever been with, or lose the life you know).

All of this = you think you and the kids will be able to prove/shame him/convince him to stop. So that you don't have to D. That is the only conclusion I can reach from all the things you've written, whether you are admitting this to yourself or not. You are not doing this to prove he is a cheater and get a D. You are doing this to prove he is a cheater and get him to stop.

If I had a dollar for every person who has told their story on here and tried to do the same. Well, I'd have a heck of a lot of dollars.

I would put my money on your WS never, ever, EVER admitting to anything. He was able to give you an STD and cover it with plausible deniability. He will forever do the same. My guess is that he will lie even if you have photographic evidence. What's the Narcissist saying?

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did... You deserved it.

You are most likely going to have to choose between staying with an active cheater and losing your mind or divorcing an active cheater and losing the life you know (with the potential of gaining a better one).

I'm sorry.

Have you put the link together that his debt and his cheating are inextricably linked? Financial infidelity and sexual infidelity are frequently 2 sides of the same coin, particularly in this case, where it seems like he's paying for escorts.

So if incurring debt is what you're worried about by getting divorced, you need to face the fact that you're incurring debt right now by staying married to him. You probably don't even know how deep the hole even is.

In short, yes, a divorce may prove very costly... but in the end, the amount is known and it is finite. There is no limit or foreseeable end to the financial damage your WH can do while he remains married to you.

Get a lawyer and get your ducks in a row. Make decisions based on what you know to be the likely outcome, not what you fear it will be.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:35 PM, Thursday, July 25th]

I hate the use of the word "graduated" to describe his behavior. It’s more like sunk, or morally flunked as a husband and man...

You do realize that the reason he is in credit-card debt is because he is creating that debt?
I’m fairly confident that if you were to sit down and analyze your finances, you would realize that the main reason for the debt is his spending and/or lack of income.
Maybe the charges to the card are mainly for gas, food and all that. But that is probably because relatively few hookers take cards, and paying cash is both the norm AND easier to hide from you.
How does it make you feel being at your age (I too am in a +35 year old relationship, so I’m assuming you are somewhere in the +55 year group...) and still have 10 years on your mortgage, knowing he has spent quite the amount on hotels and PROBABLY sex-workers? Knowing that if that money had been directed to the family, there wouldn’t be credit-card debt? Knowing that a fair share of your cash is going to interest payments? Knowing that if he had been financially faithful then maybe you two could retire at about 60, cut back the hours, done some travelling, dote on the grandkids...

Not stating any of this to bring you down although I do admit to trying to raise your feathers...
Personally I think people should do their darndest to be debt-free before retiring because chances are your income will drop. The sooner the better, to stockpile saving to counter the drop in income. Of course, you can work into your 80’s, but personally I would want that to be a choice rather than an obligation.

As-is then the chances are the debt will accumulate. After all – the cost of living has raised the price of hotels and probably the going rate for sex. He might respond by downgrading to the druggie-hookers, with the added risk of STD’s. Who knows? Maybe he get’s caught in the park and get’s a sex-offender label, but I guess you can always visit the grandkids at their homes...

Until and unless you confront then don’t expect changes...
I get it that a 35 year old relationship can be hard to leave. But that is not the foregone conclusion. What is clear IMHO is that unless you are willing to set enforceable boundaries and rules then things wont change.
If he KNOWS that some fear you have of losing half the assets in the home and possibly have half his credit-card debt... he has a grip on you.
Consult with an attorney. Maybe you have a grip on his pension, or work, or maybe the debt is his, or maybe he has something that gives you more of the house and less of the debt. Or whatever.
But what you want is the courage and determination to tell him that ALTHOUGH you want little more than to spend life with him, then even less do you want to become poor, forced to work for many more years, afraid of more STD’s and afraid of losing your grandkids when its finally exposed that their granddad is really a dirty old pervert. It would be better for you to cut your losses and start afresh – even if that was in a smaller home – where you are in financial and emotional control of your own life.

Something tells me that IF he can be redeemed it will be when he hits that rock-bottom and realizes his options are to be on his own or to lose his family.

Maybe the charges to the card are mainly for gas, food and all that. But that is probably because relatively few hookers take cards, and paying cash is both the norm AND easier to hide from you.

Hookers don't take credit cards, but they will take cash advances from credit cards.

Hookers don't take credit cards, but they will take cash advances from credit cards.

True, and having in mind that hotels demand credit-cards then it further strengthens my theory that the majority of that debt is probably connected to his actions.

BRBLife – Keep in mind that if the debt builds up and if the creditors tire of waiting, they might come after your house, and they won’t settle for "his" half or let you live in "your" half. They will take everything. Seriously – look into that credit-card debt and your whole financial situation. If it’s not improving (as in the debt lowering each month) then calculate how long this situation can be sustained until it reaches collections. That’s when EVERYTHING you have worked towards is at risk – and not only the "half" you might possibly lose in a worst-case scenario divorce.