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I am obviously hitting anger in the midst of processing things. WH had therapy today and his therapist 's suggestion to how he can help me through his work trip this weekend, Ask her what SHE needs from you for accountability to feel safe this weekend. What! The! Hell! Why does everyone ask ME what I need to feel safe? The things I need are impossible right now. I need to feel that my WH won't do any sort of wayward behavior but I can't trust him for that so I'm just supposed to somehow think of something?!?! And if one more person tells me that I just need to feel and process my emotions....I might just smash something. I. Don't. Want. To. Process. Anymore. Right. Now!

So normally I'm a very even keeled, sweet person. I've been discribed as someone who wouldn't hurt a fly. That I'm a peacemaker. And I rarely curse. But this whole situation has broken my give a f button. So I ask, how do I handle the rage I feel right now. Its not something I'm used to dealing with so that's even an extra layer to this. 11 years ago I literally took a baseball bat to a bookcase in the freezing cold in a tshirt. And apparently I was absolutely terrifying to watch because it was so out of character. Do I do that again?

I'm sorry we had to meet this way. I will cut right to the chase. You make these comments:

Why does everyone ask ME what I need to feel safe? The things I need are impossible right now.

11 years ago I literally took a baseball bat to a bookcase in the freezing cold in a tshirt. And apparently I was absolutely terrifying to watch because it was so out of character. Do I do that again?

I think maybe a better question is not simply what you need to feel safe but what is available right now that will help you feel better. And yeah, better = safe (or safer anyway). Maybe the answer isright in front of you, but I am going to ask it in the form of a question, because it sounds from your post that you are trying to work things out with WH.

My question is: Is staying with your WH really a safe option right now? How is staying with WH making you feel?

I ask this as I also had false R, and years of lies, blah blah blah. I too stayed for a long time when an A was ongoing. I too listened to things about what would make me feel safe/safer, and the honest answer was getting the F away from my WH. Discontinuing engaging with him UNTIL (or IF) he made actual changes and he did so because he WANTED to - not for me, not for anyone else, but him. I am saying this to you full well knowing that when people on this site told me to step away from my WH as he had PROVEN to me that he was not a safe partner, did not have my best interests in mind (or likely my interests at all), and had done nothing of any consequence that indicated he really wanted to and planned to try to change, that I bristled at their advice because they didn't know my WH, didn't know me, my situation, what I was capable of handling, etc.

Thing is - I did step away from my WH, and only then did he decide to make changes for himself - that he had messed up our relationship, his job, his friendships - everything pretty much - and he didn't like being that guy anymore. It was his "rock bottom" and while I can't guarantee that your WH will have the same rock bottom, or that he will ever want to really make lasting changes, I can tell you a few things. First, this changing does NOT take place overnight. Second, your sticking around to monitor his progress will only stunt your own. Third, your sticking around or not will not be the decider for him to make changes - only he can do that for himself. Fourth, you do not have divorce or decide that it's over between you - taking some space for yourself is not a game ender. Fifth, space for you IS good. It will give you clarity - it will allow you to smash the junk in the parking lot or whatever you want and get that OUT of you. You NEED TIME FOR YOU as hard as it is to see it in the moment.

Finally, I am 6 years out from d-day 1 - my WH has been in IC in earnest for over 3 years. We are not married but are reconciling our friendship and maybe our relationship...and I like this guy my WH is becoming so much more than I ever did prior to the infidelity. But it's been a lot of work, and I had to re-find myself. I think you do too.

I do NOT know your whole story so forgive me for making assumptions. But really, put the burden on him to make this work and take some time for yourself. You likely won't regret it and later on will wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

As a peacemaker, we squash down our feelings and our wants and desires to keep the peace. We are master acquiescors, compromisers, easy-going low-maintenance people. So when we are asked what we want — when what we want is for our history to never have happened — it absolutely turns on the rage. We don’t know what we want- we’ve also just gone along with everyone else.

So yeah, take it out on a pillow, a punching bag, a bunch of frozen disks, whatever. Scream in your car. I stuffed my anger for years— I refused to even see it, I had it stuffed down so fucking deep. It’s not out of character, actually. No one had hurt you so badly that you had to react that strongly before, that’s all. You have that passion and rage in you — you just don’t bring it out over little stuff. Big stuff? Then watch out.

For the work trip, I think you aren’t going to feel safe. Period. And what your WS’s IC should have asked is "what can he do to help you?"
* Call at given times
* Accept and expect calls from you as needed, assuming you can work around the critical work functions
* Return to his hotel room immediately, skipping social stuff, and be on the phone with you
* Turn on tracking
* Have an accountability buddy (if work people know).

But the reality is, you can’t control him and that is going to just suck for you. Keep yourself busy. Do what you can to self-soothe. - bubble baths, comedy movies, popcorn with extra butter — whatever works for you.

Spend the time really considering if this is what you want in your life. He hasn’t changed. he’s had years to change, and hasn’t.
What is different this time? Only you can decide. This latest DDAY is really fresh and raw, so I understand you aren’t ready to pull the plug. But the alternative is this.

Are you in your own IC? You are doing though a lot- it might be helpful.

I am so sorry you are doing through this and that he is taking a work trip so soon after DDAY. It’s really hard.

You are "processing" your feelings.

And right now, what you feel is anger.

Righteous, justified anger. Good for you!

Use it.

If you were in his shoes, You wouldn't need someone to tell you what to do. You'd be thinking way ahead and asking, doing, whatever it took. You should be pissed that he stands there all befuddled expecting you to solve the problem he created. Nope.

Here's what I would do: Plan that time while he is away. What do you want to do with that time? Book a massage, read that book you wanted to read, call a friend or five and get out of the house. Dinner, a movie, a hike whatever it is that floats your boat. Take a long drive to someplace you wanted to see. book a room. Indulge you. Do it all.

As for him? I'd tell him that I have no faith or trust in him. But I would damn well expect that any call or text is answered immediately. You plan on filling your time with things you enjoy but you very much expect that you are his priority on his trip and should he fail to respond or make you a priority, his bag will be packed by the time he returns.

Seriously, channel that rage to drive you towards time spent making yourself happy whilst still expecting him to have you forefront on his mind. You want a pic of where he is? He provides it, pronto. You need a talk? He gives it. I guess what I'm saying is that while he is gone, you are his priority. You are also your priority.

My god, use that anger.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 1:18 AM, Wednesday, November 1st]

Oh, fuck that.

Tell him you don't give a fuck what his therapist said. Tell him he needs to figure out ways to help you feel safe with him being out of town on this trip.

This is his work. He asked the IC. Now he's asking you. He's a damn serial cheater who has been through this before. He should have some ideas. Good ones. He figured out how to cheat,without getting caught for a long time, so he can figure this out.

Your job is to take care of yourself and watch his actions. What is he doing? Actually doing. What is he going to do differently this time, as opposed to last time?

He needs to stop depending on everyone telling him what to do, and THINK about it.

Just food for thought… maybe take yourself to a safe place (could even be your back yard) and just smash some s*hit. Or scream. Just let yourself feel the rage. Get it out.

It could be just something simple like a few dozen eggs and wing them at a tree or smash some old plates.

I used to wail(not sure correct term) cry in the shower when I was home alone and it helped me feel better.

It may help you. Unfortunately this is a long process no matter the path you ultimately choose.
S2D

Can he not go? Will the world collapse if he doesn’t? Has he ever missed a work trip before?

I do think some counsellors suck. But I also think some ws just use the counsellor to blow even more smoke up their butts. My husband did prior to dd.

If my husband came home and asked ‘what could he do’ I’d tell him that it was a crock of shit session and he should be working on why he was a liar who lacked integrity. I’d then ask him why he thought it was okay to break the vows he willingly made. Why he lacks integrity? Why is it okay to sneak about and lie?

Next weekend can you take a few days away without him or the kids? Do something you used to enjoy? Give yourself time to think.

Edited to add, I think I have got to the point where my questions and feelings currently matter more to me than the marriage. He doesn’t have to listen, accept or take how I feel (he is free to leave or cheat) but I’m not hiding how I feel to protect or save his feelings or the marriage. He needed to know I no longer hold the same respect for him, I don’t love him like I did, I think his lack of integrity is very sad and I’d hate to be in his position.

Time may bring those back but he needs to know how I feel. I have no idea whether this has any chance of success. The way I am handling it or the marriage. But I know I need to talk and if I fester on matters it won’t work for me. And I matter the most (to me) as his actions prove he is unreliable, abusive and self centred. He can figure out why he betrayed himself and has chosen to be a liar.

What’s his reason for cheating?

[This message edited by Abcd89 at 10:05 AM, Wednesday, November 1st]

Thisissolonely, I think for now I'm staying because of not wanting to rock the kids worlds and because I do love him. But I've only said I'll stay to see where therapy leads us.

BearlyBreathing, yes I have my own IC. I actually started with her a few months ago to work on myself after our MC (that I got us set up with about a year ago because we have guardenship of our grandson, WH's daughter's son because of her wounds from childhood) suggested that I had many layers of trauma from dealing with years of issues with my stepdaughter and that I could benefit on working to heal from that. The overwhelm I now realize my last sessions were like right before this DDay just serve to show how much everything was blowing up around me and I was trying to (again and again) keep the wheels on the tracks.

HellFire, you bring up good questions. And so much of this new dday is an echo of the last but also is different. Last time he took 3 months before starting IC, this time he immediately pushed for multiple sessions with our MC and for me with my IC plus he set up starting his IC. But yeah there's definitely lots of WS fog too. At the same time he seems like he's definitely dropping towards rock bottom. My eyes are not as closed this time. Last time I begged him to save us, stay for our family. This time I'll only committ to staying to see how it goes with therapy. And I'm working on not being such a mouse anymore.

Abcd89, yes I suppose he could choose not to go. But then we'd be stuck with no reimbursement for the plane ticket expense at a time when we really need that money back to pay bills. And he was going to cancel but he wasn't doing it for the right reasons so I told him no I wouldn't allow him to have that to put against me. It would definitely reflect badly if he didn't go as well. And while part of me doesn't care about that, part of me does want to keep it intact so if we do R, his career is ok.

Everyone else, thank you so much for validating my feelings. I think I definitely need to use the anger to propell myself forward and for some reason I feel stronger in letting my emotions out when angry, I just worry about hurting (emotionally) someone.

To be upfront, my personal bias is that staying "for" the kids is not a good idea in most circumstances. My mom had an affair - my parents divorced but they stayed together for about a year before they separated. Life was MUCH better for me because they separated and divorced - I did not know what was going on (I do now but at the time I had no clue what all the stress and anxiety and fighting was about) but it was tense, and pretty horrible to live through as a young child.. In the moment it seemed hard - and it was - but in the long run it was infinitely better. My analogy: your house is on fire - so it is not a safe place for your kids. If you want to rush back in to try to put out the fire, fine, but get your kids to safety first. I also don't think statistics saying that kids do better with married parents than divorced ones adequately addresses the real issue here because there are no statistics (I am aware of) that compare how kids do when parents stay together after infidelity versus separating - nevertheless when they stay together during multiple affairs.

All that being said, why is your WH pushing for MC - your marriage didn't have an affair - he did. I really hope you are not falling for the whole "this is 'our' problem" bait and switch that happens so often. You are NOT the problem. You did NOT cause or otherwise make your WS have an affair.

"Your job is to take care of yourself and watch his actions. What is he doing? Actually doing. What is he going to do differently this time, as opposed to last time?"

I can’t say what others need to do. But I can share my experience, strength and hope.

My experience is that I firmly believe that it was up to my EXWH to do the actual work to make himself a safe spouse instead of a duplicitous lying hack. Not saying that this is the case with your WH. But mine could just not stop lying. I had 2 DDays I knew of, then about a million paper cuts before I finally tossed in the towel and divorced. I failed to take care of myself. It cost me years of my life and so much more. I deeply regret not taking exquisite care of myself.

I deeply regret not seeing WH’s actual behavior for what it was. The smoke from the gaslighting was so thick it took me decades to see through it.

I am strong and I will survive. But I am very scarred from my infidelity experiences. I consider infidelity to be a severe form of abuse. If someone punches their spouse, few people will blame the victim. But so many counselors fail to treat infidelity as the life-threatening abuse it is. It’s shocking how counselors participate in victim blaming. This is not your fault. It is a spouse’s responsibility to care for and protect their spouse. You did not make him cheat. He did that all in his own.

I hope you will take exquisite care of yourself.