SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all, just found this place and really hoping I can get some advice and support as right now I really don't know where I stand, or what to do. I hope I've posted in the right place and apologise if this is lengthy.

My story: Me (41ish), wife (36ish) and 3 children.

My Wife had expressed a few times over the past 2 years about some issues with our relationship regarding me not being attentive and listening properly etc. As a typical male, I think I buried my head on the sand a bit and assumed all would be ok. This culminated in a drive back from a day out at the end of February where she told me that she was done and couldn't keep going like this. After a silent drive the rest of the way, it took me about a week to really process what was going on and address the subject with her. In the meantime, she had gone out for the night with some friends.

After that week once I had sorted my head out I kind of "woke up" to my faults and we had a good honest discussion about our relationship, where we were, and where we wanted to be. I agreed that I needed to work harder and would put my all into being a better husband. During this discussion she told me that she had come the closest she had to cheating on me during the night out that week but assured me she didn't.

Over the course of the next few weeks, I start to notice WhatsApp notifications on her phone with a name the same as one of her friends but a strange profile picture. One night whilst we were looking at something on her phone a notification popped up and she was extremely quick to swipe it away. Eventually I got the courage to ask her about this, and she tried to assure me it was just her friend (who has the same name). As we had been experiencing some other major life issues, she claimed he had just been messaging to offer support. I let it go taking her word, as she has never given me any reason to not believe or trust her over the course of our 10 year relationship.

This then goes on, however I notice that the WhatsApp messages now only show a number with no name. Shortly after, this appears to transition to Snapchat. One morning, I lean over to say morning and noticed her messaging this person. At this point, I raise the issue again to be told the same story. I push a bit harder but don't get anywhere.

After that, I make what feels like a rather shitty decision to attempt to look at her messages one night, and get caught doing so. Whilst there was nothing untoward, it did clarify that it wasn't the same person she told me it was. We proceed to have an argument about me violating her privacy, which I feel bad about but I also question why she felt the need to lie to me twice. She tries to justify it that she knew I would react badly if she told the truth, and that he is a friend of a friend that she got talking to with her friend one evening and that because her and her best friend were not talking at that time, she felt it was someone she could talk to. At that point, I assumed we were over and we slept separately for a few nights with her spending one night at her friends house who happened to be on holiday. She had been due to go out with another friend that night also so said she was going to the pub and then staying there.

After a week or so, we agreed that she would try and forgive me looking through her phone, and she also said that she would stop talking with this guy as she could understand how it could look. She showed me messages where they had agreed there would be no more contact and I felt happier.

At this point things seemed to improve, we both seemed to be making steps forward and getting our relationship on course. However due to some other big family health events going on things were a struggle. She has always suffered from depression and anxiety and was back on medication due to these other issues. She then told me one morning that she had been messaging this guy again as he had reached out, but assured me there was nothing to it.

Over the course of the last few weeks, I have overseen her messaging him a couple of times, once whilst we were away when I came back to the table and she flicked off the message quickly. I think after realising I had seen it, she told me he messaged and showed me her reply which she assured me was all innocent. (Which it was - but I'm not sure that matters!) I also have an ad blocker installed on our home network that logs sites devices visit. I can actually see that she seems to open snapchat very regularly on a daily basis. (I think she turned notifications off so opens the app to check)

Over the weekend just gone, she had arranged to go for a night out with one of her old friends who is also male. (She has always got on better with men, and I genuinely have no concern for this guy - he's been a friend of ours for 9 years or so now).

She told me they were going to the town where he lives for some drinks. At this point, my anxiety is going mad but I try and give her the benefit of the doubt. She ends up home at 2:30 in the morning saying they had just been to a few bars which isn't uncommon.

The next morning, when clearing the washing I find a Casino membership card in her pocket. What is strange, is the town she was in does not have a casino which concerns me that she's lied. I then get a little sneaky, and look at her email on her laptop where I can see an Uber receipt showing that when she left home she actually went to a different town.

She has since also told me that her friends are arranging a games night in the next few weeks and she is going to sleep over. In the past I'd see this as innocent, but my mind is now racing at the thought.

So my story ends there for now. I'm really in two minds as to what to do. I really feel like I need to talk to her. At the moment, my main two concerns are:

1) Asking about her conversations with this guy - whether they are still ongoing, whether she is willing to cut off contact again. Why is she even talking to him, what does she intend to happen> Tell her how it makes me feel.

2) Confront her about the Casino night out. I can't really admit I snooped on her laptop as I know that would cause major arguments, but I could question the casino card and whether she was where she said? Ask to see her Uber app to show me?

I'm not even sure if I need to bring both of these up at once, or just tackle one at a time? Or do I keep quiet and keep gathering until I find something more concrete? Do i message the guy she was supposed to be with to ask if she actually was with her? My concern is that she wasn't and was with the guy she was messaging. I really don't know where to go with this or who to turn to. I really don't want this relationship to end as I really do love her and I also don't want to break this family.

The anxiety is starting to get to me. I've been prescribed Zoloft but just been reluctant to take it and medicate yet. I have counselling booked in, but unfortunately she is not available until next week. I do wonder if I should wait and talk it through with her before I make any decisions?

Anyway, I apologise for the long post however I really do appreciate any opinions/perspective or advice on what I should do. I feel utterly lost and confused right now :(

[This message edited by CandidAd at 9:42 AM, Monday, June 5th]

If you have issue with "violating" her privacy then hire a private investigator to follow her the next "game night". This looks bad. You need to know what's going on or it will eat you up and poison your relationship otherwise.

Unfortunately I'm not sure I have the funds for a PI, nor do I know if it's much of a thing here in the UK.

Thanks for the comment though. I'm not sure how much is my brain working overtime, so it's good to get some perspective.

If you can't hire a P.I then go for voice recorder(VAR). Place it in her car and your bedroom. If she is talking to those guys on her phone then you will find something. Confronting her now may force her to go underground. Right now, she is being reckless and making mistakes. So, possibility of catching her now is high. VAR will really come in handy. I would suggest to look out for P.I and how much one cost. Even if it is little expensive, hiring one now will save you from mental agony, suffering and even future financial burden.

I believe, privacy is very important and needs to be respected when partner is not acting suspicious and is not any kind of threat or in any kind of threat. Your wife is acting suspiciously, lied to you many times, and is hiding things from you. She is acting unsafe. That gives you reasonable right to invade her privacy to know whether you and her are in any kind of threat and harm.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 10:53 AM, Monday, June 5th]

I’ll only speak for myself. I would bet a lot of money that she is cheating on you. Your story is classic cheater attempts to hide what they are doing. Her lies are boilerplate cheater lies. Your story has been read a 1000 times over. Just the names are the only difference.
Here are your options as I see them. You need the truth and she is not going to give it to you, so.
1. Put a voice activated recorder under the front seat of her car.
2. Check her past locations with her google apps on her phone.
3. Put a gps location device on her car.
4. Hire a PI.
5. Get access to her phone and see what she is saying to her friends.
Anyone would be suspicious of her behavior as you described it. Find the truth and then take the appropriate steps at point.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not sure how effective a VAR will be as from what I can tell all communication is via Snapchat messages at the moment. She's not really a phone call type of person however I will consider it.

I don't even know the her passcode to her phone as she changed it so unfortunately I can't look anymore. I have on occasion managed to record her over her shoulder in the mornings and seen conversations but nothing damning as yet.

I am tempted by some sort of GPS tracker for her car when she goes to her "friends" however. I just need to find out from her where her friends house is first - but I can potentially do that via the guise of just being protective and knowing where she will be.

A part of me is gearing up to confront her tonight about lying about where she was. Even if she is not cheating, lying is not something I appreciate and that in itself is grounds for discussion in our relationship regardless. Then I can use that to make it clear I can't trust her, and would need details and to see messages relating to where she is going in the future.

However I understand what you are saying. Perhaps by waiting I can get a bigger picture of everything? Fuck, this is hard. I've been trying to justify and rationalize it for a few months now almost turning a blind eye at times.

[This message edited by CandidAd at 11:06 AM, Monday, June 5th]

If you are going to go the gps and/or VAR route which is a good alternative to the private investigator route then make sure that neither make any noise such as a beeping sound or whatever. If either have lights on them make sure to cover the lights with a thick sticky black tape or paint over it with a dark color. Use strong Velcro to secure them in the car and place them somewhere she won't be able to see or accidentally touch them.

Does she talk to people on the phone in the house? If so a VAR or two hidden well may be a good idea.

Is it common for people to have Cameras in there cars for security purposes where you live? If so maybe you can get some for both cars (if you have more then one)? Show her how it works and how to turn it off so she feels confident, this is where you have a second camera or security system that secretly records even if the main is disabled.

Maybe that last bit is to much. Just trying to give you ideas here. You got to think outside the norm to caught someone who maybe willing deceiving you.

Oh last thing. Do you have a friend or coworker who you are close with that your wife doesn't know? maybe ask them to do some reconnaissance at the place your wife says she is.

Edit: sorry I should have read your last message more thoroughly. But DON'T tell her about the gps. She will just figure a way around it.

[This message edited by ryguywhyguy at 11:28 AM, Monday, June 5th]

A part of me is gearing up to confront her tonight about lying about where she was. Even if she is not cheating, lying is not something I appreciate and that in itself is grounds for discussion in our relationship regardless. Then I can use that to make it clear I can't trust her, and would need details and to see messages relating to where she is going in the future.

If she is cheating then she won't confess until you have hard evidence which you don't have now. Even you have hard evidence she will only give you partial confession. All you know is she lied and she will lie more to cover these lies. If you demand for electronic transparency then she will label you as jealous and controlling. If she agrees to give access to her phone and social media accounts then she will make sure she delete all messages and other evidences everyday to leave no traces for you follow.

If you are going to give her ultimatums then be sure follow through it, otherwise, it won't work. There is also polygraph option.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 11:30 AM, Monday, June 5th]

Thanks both, I really appreciate your advice. I’m going to think really hard on this today before we are alone this evening.

I suppose I don’t have anything to lose by waiting a bit longer. My only concern is if I let it go longer, could it become more. In know I can’t control her actions, but wonder if the threat of me knowing or suspecting would make her realise the consequences? I don’t know, I guess not in reality, just me deluding myself!

It’s going to be tough trying to act normal and turn a blind eye. I’m struggling as it is and I have always been a chronic worrier!!

At this point, as much as I love her and my family this is the first time I’ve truly considered whether our time is over. When I was originally at fault for the lack of attention in our marriage, I started to fight with every ounce of me to make it right. However I’m not sure I can keep doing that amongst the lies. Argh!!

Thank you for listening. I appreciate just being able to vent and talk about this to someone for the first time. I do have one close friend who knows a little about this, so maybe I need to confide and ask for his help a bit more.

I once read a story posted in a echo chamber of reddit. The cheating wife was saying that before her cheating, her husband wasn't giving her enough attention and love. So, she cheated. Now, for some reasons husband started giving her all the attention and love. Took her on dates, vacation etc. She was loving it and claimed she is back in love with her husband. Said she will drop her original plan to leave her husband for her AP. If lack of affection and attention were reasons for her infidelity then when these issues were resolved, she should have ended her affair and worked on her marriage. Instead, she continued her affair saying she loves both people. So, moral of the story here is that what you did or did not didn't force her to have an affair. She had because she wanted it. Period.

Following things you need to read:

1. Pick me dance.

2. Affair fog.

3. Tactical primier.

4. Healing library.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 3:30 PM, Monday, June 5th]

Chiming in here:

I believe it is a grave mistake to confront her on anything suspicious each time they come up, as they come up.
You are only teaching her how to cover her tracks better.

Each time there is a confrontation, and a request for clarification, she has used this to turn it against you, demand that you accept blame, and create a scenario where she has been victimized by you..

Don't give her this opportunity any more.

Chiming in here:

I believe it is a grave mistake to confront her on anything suspicious each time they come up, as they come up.

You are only teaching her how to cover her tracks better.

Each time there is a confrontation, and a request for clarification, she has used this to turn it against you, demand that you accept blame, and create a scenario where she has been victimized by you..

Don't give her this opportunity any more.

Thanks, so you think I should wait also until I have something more concrete also? Seems to be the general consensus so far!

Also thanks Lurkingsoul, I know that is something I need to understand. She chose to do this…

[This message edited by CandidAd at 3:15 PM, Monday, June 5th]

While your wife may or may not be in an active affair, she is doing two things that cheaters do a lot, lie and protect their phone/devices. As a former WH, I would protect my iPhone with my life and the moment that I had to hand my phone over to my wife was agonizing as there was no telling if my AP would drop an unexpected message on my phone at any time. My wife needed my phone for something yesterday, I think it was my Ticketmaster account/app so she could sign me up for a presale of a concert, but all I know is that I handed her my phone, went into the living room and later had to use my Apple Watch to find that when she was done, my wife put my dying phone (I recall her making a joke about dying battery) on the charger.

The 1st Wife has a nice little strategy for seeing your wife's phone. Leave your phone in the other room and come up with an excuse to need your wife's phone, like you need to check traffic or check the weather and your phone is on the other side of the house. Just walk up to her and ask to use her phone for a quick thing like that and gauge her reaction. If she does anything except hand it right over to you like I did with my wife yesterday, that should at the very least give you concern that she is hiding something from you. As a grown woman, she is entitled to a certain level of privacy and respect, but you should not apologize for trying to access her messages and let her gaslight you like that.

Refusing transparency (which she is doing) is not "respecting my privacy," it's keeping secrets.

There should be no secrets in a marriage.

Please stop apologizing for investigating what is happening. You are violating her secrets, not her privacy.

Yes Candid.

In general, based on what you wrote in your OP, there is a very high likelihood she is having an affair already.

She is using false contacts,

She changed her phone lock,

She's accused you of violating her privacy.

She's noticed that you've become vigilient

She's working hard to gaslight you.

She finds many excuses to have a night away.

So here's the deal.

You can't win her back by being "a better husband"

You're not going to save the marriage by loving her harder.

You're not going to be successful in romancing her back into bed.

None of this works.... It's what she'll ask for, because it puts all the responsibility and onus of the inevitable collapse on your shoulders, and gives her a carte blanche to have her cake and eat it too, in the meantime.

Right now, as others have pointed out, she is careless, reckless, and inexperienced in covering tracks, because so far, you've accepted each lie, and accepted each blame game.

The problem is, right now, you are also being careless, reckless, and inexperienced in investigation.

Read up on the 180, and start implementing it.

Read up on how others have gathered evidence, and start implementing it

Do not discuss your wife's suspicious behavior with her anymore, at all.

Start working on improving yourself... please stop drinking if you do, and start working out.

Don't buy her any gifts, flowers, jewelry, clothes... instead, buy things for yourself or your kids.

One of the hardest things for betrayed husbands to overcome is the INTENSE desire to be in the same room as her at all times, You must avoid this--- it is part of the pick me dance.

DO NOT do the pick me dance. it is the absolute worst thing you can do.

Again, i want to stress--- you're not going to save your marriage by being a better husband for her. She will find it repulsive.

[This message edited by swoned at 3:32 PM, Monday, June 5th]

The phone thing was my big trigger that something was up. The need to always take it with her to the bathroom for example. I won't for a second suggest that the way I handled things was right (it was wrong on so many levels :-( ) but the thing I have learned is that the discussion of me not being an ideal husband etc seemed far too convenient for when her "friendship" with the other man had taken a step up.

It doesn't mean anything has happened yet, but there is probably something in the pipeline which you have every right to be concerned about.

Sadly the "RESPECT MY PRIVACY" element is something I have had to deal with as well and is a very difficult one to argue back at when they seem like they are making such a valid point (and if she is telling the truth and you have never suspected before? Well I guess it would be triggering). Though from your story it definitely feels like something is going on.

Agree with others to make sure you have your ducks in a row before confronting though.

And now for the good news.

There is a small possibility that nothing has happened, yet--

And you've found this place. There is a ton of really good advice that can be found here.
Much of it will help you, and most of it comes from experience.
Many of us made the same mistakes as you've done, and many of us had spouses behaving the same way as yours.
The collective experience here is not to be underestimated.

Hopefully, the posts here will help you avoid making the same mistakes we all did.
This will in turn help for you to discover the truth more quickly and efficiently.
Which in turn will speed up recovery... wether that is a rrestoration of trust in an ibntact marriage, a reconsiliation of a broken marriage, or divorce... They are all possibilities, but the faster you can get to this stage, the better. The limbo of not knowing is HELL>

Thank you so much to everyone here for all the advice. I am honestly humbled and full of so much gratitude to hear from other people who have gone through this experience. I feel so much less alone, and I wish I had found out about this place in the beginning.

I've read about the 180, and whilst I see the points about not being able to win her back by being a better husband, the reality of my situation is that I wasn't the greatest husband in all respects and I own that. I can see that was the case, before there was any hint at things going on and it was one of the things we talked about with regards to repairing our marriage.

Now I know this wasn't an excuse for her to potentially cheat, however if I now reverse my attempts at being more attentive, and being a better husband will that not just give her fuel to say that she was right and that I can't change? Would it not also give her reason and justification to either end our marriage or to justify cheating further?

I also worry that by doing a 180, it also makes it seem like something is wrong. Do I need to keep a minimum viable level of interest in her in order to keep gathering and potentially find more? Or is this about accepting that the relationship is likely over anyway? Damage limitation on my part?

I may have it all wrong, but thanks for entertaining me!

You are violating her secrets, not her privacy.

That makes sense - I like that. I agree there should be no room for secrets of most kind in a relationship.

[This message edited by CandidAd at 4:20 PM, Monday, June 5th]

I think that changing your behavior might alert her before you've gathered your information, so I'd try to act as normal as possible for now. If you can't help but act a little strangely, blame it on something else - illness, allergies, stress at work, worried about a friend, etc.

The GPS is a great idea, especially if it gives you information in real time. You could ask a friend to do some recon.

I also agree with those who advised that you come up with an excuse to borrow your wife's phone and see what happens. If she's like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs while the phone is in your control, that's an enormous red flag.

I also worry that by doing a 180, it also makes it seem like something is wrong. Do I need to keep a minimum viable level of interest in her in order to keep gathering and potentially find more? Or is this about accepting that the relationship is likely over anyway? Damage limitation on my part?

The 180 is not a tactic or gimmick to get her back. It is move you take to begin a detachment on your end. You are deeply emotionally connected to your wife (to which you say, well duh, she is my wife). Being this close to your wife is generally a good thing, but in this case, if she is in active affair, which at the very least she is affair curious marked by her behavior, well then, being very close to her is going to cloud your judgment.

What you are doing the 180 for is trying to step back and evaluate things as objectively as possible. Stop engaging with her on matters that don't involve importance like the kids or bills. However, pull back on the "how was your day dear?" and "I love you". Your goal is eventually indifference towards her, which in the short term is not possible. However, you want to work on detaching from her emotionally, as much as possible. Treat her like your roommate. Roommates don't sleep in the same room. Roommates don't cook or clean for each other. If you are cooking something for the whole family, you are more than welcome to share or set aside a plate for her, but you don't have to invite her to eat with you and the rest of the family.

One thing that I would recommend you consider as you go through this is consultation with a divorce attorney. That was the advice that I picked up on this forum in my early days that I will be forever thankful for. I scheduled a consultation with an attorney and it quite literally changed my life. The attorney I spoke with was very direct and clear with me that while she didn't think I wanted a divorce and was a wreck, she still went through the brass tacks of what divorce would look like for me in my position. Knowing kind of what things would look like for me post-divorce gave me the peace of mind and the strength to move forward with the 180 and towards exiting the marriage. Knowledge is power and by taking most of the guesswork out of it, I was able to de-mystify what was a process many of us are unfamiliar with, I mean, when we say our vows, the absolute last thing in our minds is that we will be sitting in front of a divorce attorney at some point down the road.