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I am having trouble, and always have, with communication. I recognize that this is a huge barrier to my husband’s healing. He has said that I never come to him and start a conversation with how I am feeling, unless he has been quiet. He’s not wrong, if he is having good days and we are doing things and seeming happy together, I want that to last as long as possible, but I can see his side of it being me just wanting to rug-sweep. We are in counseling together. I just wanted to see if anyone had some advice on how to get past this fear of the hard conversations and how to initiate a conversation without seemingly putting pressure on your BS to talk if they are not feeling the need to talk in that moment. I want to respect his feelings, and if he is not wanting to talk, but I also want to show him that I will never let communication be a problem in our relationship again.

You do not start conversations with your husband about your affair because you are not remorseful about your affair.

If you were remorseful about your affair you would focus primarily on your husbands feelings and not your own. You would also know what to do and say because with remorse comes empathy and empathetic people know what to do for people in agony.

Also, remorseful waywards spend hours every day learning as much as they can about affairs and the devastation affairs cause betrayed spouses because they want to fix as much pain and damage as possible and because they want to save their marriage.

I know all this because my wife is very remorseful and has been the model wayward since soon after Dday. Unfortunately, so much damage was done it may be too late.

[This message edited by Username123 at 9:25 PM, March 6th (Saturday)]

There is no stop sign on your post which makes it open to BS to respond also. If you only want other WS to respond, request that a mod add a stop sign.

So your BH has asked you to initiate conversations on how you are feeling?

Just talk to him. Overcome the fear and say, "I really would like to talk about xyz if you are feeling up to it? Then go from there. Don't push if he says no.

Perhaps find a book on how to communicate better with your spouse/partner?

I'm sure others will have better responses but sometimes you just have to get out of your comfort zone to make progess.

Welcome to SI. BS here. Weekends are kind of slow on SI, but I’m confident WS will reply soon.

I also want to show him that I will never let communication be a problem in our relationship again.

I’m gonna challenge your thinking / language here a bit by saying there is a difference between you wanting to SHOW something to/for someone else and you wanting to BE something for yourself.

If you want to BE a good communicator, you have to engage in the tough stuff and be the person you want by action.

If you want to SHOW someone (ie your BS) you are x or y or z, you only have to give an impression /projection/mask of the person you want the other person to think you are.

I think a lot if WS get this very confused.

“I want my BS to know I’m telling the truth” isn’t the same as “I want to be a person who values honesty, even when uncomfortable”

And after dday, most BS can smell the difference a mile away, cuz our lizard brains / spider senses are high alert.

The only thing to do is be vulnerable and do it. Any time fear is allowed to stop you from acting on your purported values, there is something else being valued more. Could be anything - fear of rejection, of consequences (that may be objectively reasonable), of vulnerability, fear of discomfort, or shame, or fear of [fill in the blank], the fear (you expressed) of losing the moment that feels good or happy (or perhaps more likely, fear of being faced with the idea that the moment isn’t all that great in your BS’ eyes - or fear of losing a protective cognitive dissonance- even if it’s the same faulty thinking that assisted on the choice to have an A).

And it’s not only a “huge barrier” to your husband’s healing.

Inability to be emotionally intimate- as evidenced by communicating with one’s spouse in an honest and vulnerable way - is a barrier to your own healing too

My wife is the same way. If we are getting along, she doesn’t bring up what she did or ask me anything. If there’s distance or tension, she comes to me and says, “I’m checking in....”

It would be better if she initiated conversations about the affair even when things are going well. It would show me that she thinks about what she did to me, to us, as much as I do and then I’d feel more like we are in this together.

I know she’s ashamed of what she did. I know she is remorseful. I’m just exhausted having to be the one who tables the issue for discussion every single time.

I understand the fear. I was the same way and my husband was very frustrated by the fact that he had to be the one to put himself out there. I guarantee you that even during the best of days he is always thinking about it. Always. Just as I know you are too. It doesn’t just disappear because we are having a “good” day.

Like gmc stated, you have to let go of the fear. When the fear gets to you, remind yourself what is at stake. In order to heal, you will need to learn to be vulnerable. Do not make the person you hurt also carry the burden of holding the olive branch.

Early on, I found it easiest to communicate to my husband through text. I had a fairly long commute and would do a lot of thinking and introspection on my drive. I would share this with him before I let my work day distract me. I also learned that asking him how he was doing was not the equivalent of starting a conversation. By asking him how he was doing, it put the ball back in his court to be vulnerable with me and he felt. What he really wanted was to hear how I felt about hurting him and how I was going to make changes to become safe for him. Sitting with him explaining to me how hurt he was did nothing to change how safe he felt moving forward to reconcile.

We would often have our IC sessions at the same time. We would go out for pie after and discuss what we spoke about. I know this doesn’t work for everyone but it helped us to untangle threads of thought and have an understanding of each other. There were times that giving my husband space was necessary, however I realized that often times I had to push to open him up. Most of the time when I did, it would lead to some tense but necessary conversations. I learned to lean in instead of step away.

There will be times putting yourself out there will not go well and that is ok. Don’t let that stop you from trying again and again. There have been a lot of “aha” moments along my journey. If you are doing the work, there will be for you too. When they hit, you need to share those with him.

Challenge yourself everyday to go outside of your comfort zone and tell your husband what is going on inside of you. Don’t let him guess, because at this point it will be the worst.

By asking him how he was doing, it put the ball back in his court to be vulnerable with me and he felt.

Think about this, and try to imagine how awful it feels to be in the BS' position / on the other side of the street. Many/most/all WS lack empathy (cuz if you had it, you would never have chosen to lie/betray yourself OR your spouse). Learning it ain't easy, but it is absolutely necessary (and that applies no matter what happens in your M - IOW, empathy is CRUCIAL to any relationship, and especially to trying to heal/repair one that's been faced with infidelity).

What he really wanted was to hear how I felt about hurting him and how I was going to make changes to become safe for him.

I think that's true for most/all BS. And we need it to be more than "just" words. IOW, you need to actually DO what you commit to doing. So if you are saying to your BS "I will increase my communication/vulnerability and engage in total honesty" and don't follow through, we often see it as just ANOTHER broken promise on top of a mountain of broken promises.

If you aren't able to follow through - then don't make the promise to begin with. And this ties into my prior post - if you are doing bc you SHOULD do it FOR them, then there is higher risk of not doing the follow through... if it's framed as something you are doing because you WANT to change YOURSELF, folks are more likely to step out of the comfort zone.

Given this was your first post, I am assuming you've read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. I would say that is a "must read" for any WS or BS. It's short, takes less than an afternoon to read, and is a pretty good outline/roadmap of the work the WS needs to do to start their healing. If finances are an issue, I'm told it's available in PDF online for free. TBH, I think it's a book that a new WS should be re-reading or at least referring to often, esp during year 1, as a sort of 'touchstone' as to their progress and where they are faltering.

You don't give many details - about your A, your dday (esp how long ago & whether you were busted or confessed), the decision to go to "counseling together", etc. that will help others (esp WS who WILL respond soon enough) share their collective wisdom.

Coming from the BS perspective, the communication piece was problematic from day 1, but the bigger issues I faced were predominantly the trauma and trying to manage my trauma response. MC - and the concept of "fairness" that many MC work with - was about the worst possible place for ME in the weeks/months after dday.

ETA:

And I wanted to echo wiseoldfool's comments. It may have been "how to help your spouse heal" or Shirly Glass' "Not Just Friends" (another very insightful book on infidelity) that talks about the BS feeling as if they must shoulder the pain all alone bc their WS will not raise the infidelity w/o prompting or unless the BS is experiencing a trigger or mind movie. For me, it remains another large injustice on top of the long list of injustice that was put upon my shoulders by my WH's unilateral decision to cheat. Can you imagine adding weight to the already EXTREMELY burdened shoulders your BS is carrying just from the knowledge of the infidelity?

In some ways, that inability is WORSE than the A itself (and there's a ton of folks here on SI who will say that it's often not the A that ends the M, but the WS not stepping up and doing EVERYTHING they can to heal/repair/change that kills it.. and that 'everything' starts with stepping outside your comfort zone).

Godspeed.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:01 AM, March 7th, 2021 (Sunday)]

I also learned that asking him how he was doing was not the equivalent of starting a conversation. By asking him how he was doing, it put the ball back in his court to be vulnerable with me and he felt. What he really wanted was to hear how I felt about hurting him and how I was going to make changes to become safe for him.

One million times this. One million more times this.

As a betrayed husband, I don’t feel like going to the person who every day for three years plunged a dagger into my heart and saying, “this is where it hurts.”

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 11:30 AM, March 7th (Sunday)]

This is truth --> "What he really wanted was to hear how I felt about hurting him"

Let me give a suggestion before the stop sign is put on.

We walk together twice a week for about 2 hours. After we have warmed up, around the 30 minute mark, the conversation begins. Most of the time it is a vent, however I understand that this is when she feels comfortable to say what she wants. Most of the time we (she) talk, but sometimes we bond in silence.

Get away from your normal and find something private that you can do together. Set a pattern and stick with it. You loss the connection and have to find a way to build it back. Take the opportunity of time given and appreciate it. If you run out of time due to your silence, you will be communicating via a lawyer.

[This message edited by 66charger at 2:19 PM, March 7th (Sunday)]

If you run out of time due to your silence, you will be communicating via a lawyer.

Amen to that.

Do you know what he means by 'how you are feeling'?

To me it's a mad/sad/glad/scared/ashamed question. I wanted my W to check in with me and tell me what she was feeling - 'sisoon, is it OK to check in now?'

Alternatively, you can go to your H and ask what he means by 'how you are feeling' and then tell him.

It really is as simple ast that. The difficult part is getting over your fear....

Ww2002

if he is having good days and we are doing things and seeming happy together, I want that to last as long as possible

If you would like the good days to continue you must have the tough conversations now.

To simply think this will all somehow magically go away is just fooling yourself.

Put your BH before your comfort and discuss with him how your affair has changed your marriage, him and yourself.

As a BS this reads as "I need to do the hard stuff but it hurts too bad so I'd rather my BH suffer in silence than hurt myself" To sum up - You'd rather he hurt than you.

Now - he's probably so immersed in his own pain and suffering he hasn't figured that out yet. But...once his healing begins he will. And it will be an epiphany to him.

Please - put on your big girl panties and do the hard stuff. Before, as others say, it will be too late and via attorneys.

Here is what I learned.

Inside I was consumed with what I had done. To him, to myself, to the OBS. I don't think I was ever not thinking about it. And, you must realize that he is never not thinking about it either.

I learned to just hone in on what I was thinking in the moment and found the courage to keep sharing that with him. A lot of times, on good days, I would be thinking "man, I just threw this away without giving it any thought. I stopped appreciating him along the way somewhere. And, I would just tell him that's what I was thinking and apologize for it. I found so many specific things to apologize to him about. Sometimes it would be "I am enjoying this so much, but in the back of my mind I can see what a fool I was for not seeing _____. Or for doing _____ .

If you listen to him, are able to empathize with him, it will be easier for him to hear an apology than to be put on the spot with "how are you feeling?" If you just start it with an apology, it will be easier for him to go in and talk about how he feels about that. I think for a long time the BS is really drinking from a firehose all the ways they are hurting, all the memories, the lies, the things they tried to do and we didn't notice. It's overwhelming all the things it touches. "How are you feeling" just is an overwhelming question to ask.

I found the better I got at bringing it up, apologizing for specific things, the more we would just go in and out of conversations about it. Things wouldn't build up as much or fester, he began to comment that maybe I was starting to understand.

I think often if the WS wants to understand they can, but learning to talk about it is so difficult because so many of us are conflict avoidant, have intimacy/vulnerability issues, and are often bad communicators. But, the keys are to the learning to talk about it. To own it, to have full accountability over it, and to help the BS carry it. The more you ignore it during the good times and ask open ended questions during the bad, the more the BS has to carry on their own. Stop seeing it as conflict, you will find that the more you bring up what you are thinking about it and what you did the less it's about conflict and the more it becomes about reaching higher levels of understanding one another.

So, don't put a lot of pressure on yourself - just start tuning into what you are already thinking and start sharing it. Don't ignore what you are thinking, that's often how we got here.

Agree with Chaos 100%, and to echo HO's suggestions at apologizing, you can google some info on that front to make the apologies more impactful (eg steps for effective apology after infidelity) ...

The basics will include

- validating with SPECIFICS (both the actions that caused the harm and the way in which the harm is manifesting)

- apologizing

- committing to change

So, that kind of apology will look something like: I'm so sorry that having an affair has caused you to lose trust in me, but also in the world in general. I am committed to total honesty in all areas of my life, including (or especially) with respect to our relationship.

Now, compare that to the general WS apology, which is usually "I'm sorry you are hurting", which basically implies blame upon the BS for the hurt, doesn't take accountability (compare to I'm sorry I hurt you), doesn't have a commitment to change (which is a signal to lizard brain that safety is possible/on the horizon), and doesn't have any specificity that signals to the BS/lizard brain that the WS SEES the BS and SEES and understands the damage and struggle (which is a giant issue bc the WS does NOT see the BS in their decision to engage in an A - we are wholly irrelevant in all of it - not seen, not heard, not important, not loved, not cherished, etc.)

The point is that as a BS, our lizard brains have basically taken over a large (or at times, all) of our functioning. Lizard brain's JOB is to protect us from harm, so once we've been harmed, it goes on high alert to protect us. It is ALWAYS lurking and at the ready to warn us of the danger. So in the infidelity realm, that danger is the WS (remember the old "fight, flight, or freeze"? that's what's happening to us - and when we don't answer "how are you feeling", that's usually a "freeze" response in that lizard brain is sending us neuro signals to NOT BE VULNERABLE to the thing that's harmed us). Yet, some part of our executive brain is obviously still exercising its will to the extent that we don't immediately leave/ file for D. So there's this inner tug-of-war going on, that can take YEARS to learn to manage. So when we are "triggered" that is lizard brain kicking in, flooding our bodies with all kinds of hormones and reactivity and we simply cannot seem to get our executive brain back online (and then we often kick ourselves for the inability to "control our emotions" even tho what's happening biologically is primal and working exactly as intended).

And that is difficult for a WS to see or understand (and that then devolves into the whole issue of the WS ACCEPTING that this is TRAUMA and that trauma wreaks a ton of havoc on our bodies and our minds). I truly believe that the more a WS can learn about trauma and trauma response, the better they can focus their energies when supporting their BS (and BSs need to learn about it too)

Finally, wondering if you've been back to SI and how it's going. The SI community can sometimes feel harsh/overwhelming - esp to WS - and I hope that you can find the strength & ability to manage your shame to continue to post and interact.

this fear of the hard conversations and how to initiate a conversation without seemingly putting pressure on your BS to talk if they are not feeling the need to talk in that moment.

To overcome this fear you need to understand where it's coming from. The 'why' you are afraid.

I can't really speak for you but this reads a lot like my own internal processes. In the end, for me, it comes down to control. Afraid of the consequences so I try to control the situation.

Maybe try to work with your IC on letting go of your need to control the outcome.

I don't think you need to have your partner's feelings and emotions and reactions in the forefront of everything you do or say. Don't worry about putting pressure on him. Don't worry about about his feelings. Worry about what you need to do to change yourself into a better person.

I am having trouble, and always have, with communication. I recognize that this is a huge barrier to my husband’s healing.

As I said. It's actually not a huge barrier to his healing. It's a huge barrier to yours. Concentrate on getting to where you want to be for you. He has to do his road separately for a while before you both can converge and build a new relationship. My two cents, anyway.

good luck!

Don't worry about about his feelings

While I suppose this is largely dependent upon the meaning of the term "worry", as a BS, I could not disagree more.

Should you be obsessing about your BS' feelings? No. that is not productive and it tends to keep the WS wrapped in their own blanket of shame and self loathing, which is also unproductive (and often harmful).

But should you be EMPATHETIC to them? Yes, and crucially so.

[WS' inability to communicate is] actually not a huge barrier to his [BS] healing

and maybe the definitional issue here is "huge", but it's another statement about which I could not disagree more. Yes, the BS must do their own healing, but to say that a WS' inability to communicate does not incur (sometimes exponentially) more damage is, IMHO, hogwash.

IMO, the WS can help/support the BS' healing or make it WORSE.

I often use the car crash analogy. WS is driving the car, BS is the passenger. WS is drunk and basically drives the car into a brick wall (by having an A). BS has broken every bone, has internal organ damage, etc. WS is hurt as well, but nowhere near the extent as BS. BS is freaked out bc (a) their spouse doesn't drink, but yet was drunk (the betrayal), and (b) the injuries are serious and will take a LONG time to heal, including surgery, physical therapy, occupational therapy, etc.

Can the WS "do" the surgery for the BS? of course not. Same for PT and OT. Nearly all of the "heavy lifting" of healing from the crash will fall SOLELY on the shoulders of the passenger / BS. HOWEVER, the WS can ABSOLUTELY support the BS in that hard effing work. In the analogy, it's making the appointments, providing transportation, bringing water, and all the other things we do when someone we love is sick and in need of healing, loving, support. Saying the driver need not "worry" about it or that it's OK to just not provide support bc it's not a "huge" help anyhow? SMH.

Returning to the analogy, if the BS/passenger needs a ride to the doctor for his HEALING, can that strike some serious fear into the WS? Of course. Of COURSE a WS is scared - they just drove the car into a brick effing wall. So there's a choice: allow the fear of driving bc of the crash control things and let the BS figure out how to get to the damn doctor themself.... or figure out how to learn to drive again, so that you can help the BS try to heal from wounds that no one deserves.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 5:12 PM, March 9th, 2021 (Tuesday)]