SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I had been working up to posting my story on the "Just Found Out" forum but things have been progressing very quickly and thought I should just get it out. This is going to be a lot so sorry in advance for the wall of text...

Well, we've been married for 12 years and have a 7 year old son together. A few weeks ago, we were on a family vacation with nearly my wife's entire family (sister, parents, cousins etc.). Just prior to the vacation, I suspected she had lied to me about things and ended up confronting her while on the trip. She admitted to having an affair with her boss (also married) and she said that she was in love with him (and no longer with me). She's adamant that they're over and the boss is trying to work things out with his wife but needless to say, the trip was a trainwreck - playing happy tour guide by day and talking long into sleepless nights.

Now that we're back, we've talked a lot and had one couples counseling session. However, she is convinced that she can no longer love me the way she feels she should. The core issue is that she wishes I had the drive to be the best at something (other than the best father and supportive husband). To me, this was an issue that we should be able to meet in the middle on but I think because she had felt that spark with her boss, she thinks that's what she needs to be happily married. I also think that she feels so guilty about hurting me through the affair that our entire marriage is tainted to her. So, regardless of the consequences to the family, she wants to get away and pursue that idyllic life she's picturing.

My on the other hand, I was raised by divorced parents and know the pain even when both sides are amicable. Being forced to love a new mom and dad and family, splitting holidays, not having a close relationship with either parent etc. Why risk all of that for our son on the chance that she could be happier with someone else?

In any case, I'm very distraught about her decision and am a mess. We have two units on our property and I moved into the unit my sister-in-law's family was using while they moved in with my wife and son. I don't have the energy to be around the entire family so I end up being an outcast in the other unit. Beyond that, thinking about my childhood and what the separation and eventual divorce means for all of us is brutal.

I know my wife and I are equally convinced that we're right, and who knows, she might be right. However, at this point in time, I can't help but feel she's built this unrealistic picture of a perfect marriage that has the spark of an illicit affair, the husband who is making half a million dollars but still supports her (she has a lot of issues) and our son, and no negative consequences of a divorce. Part of me says to just let her date, get used for sex, be unhappy in a future relationship and then realize she just had a pipe dream in her head or keep searching for that. The other part of me doesn't want her to drag all of us through all of that and wants to just slap some sense into her.

For those of you who went through a separation/divorce, how do you deal with the hope that the other side will come to their senses? The separation is definite but the divorce is not a priority for her yet. We have another couples' session coming up but it's really only going to be for figuring out how to tell our son. Apart from that, I've read through many other posts about the sadness and depression so I'm working on coping with those. Thanks for reading.

Have you exposed to OM's wife yet? Sounds like your wife is still in the affair, so it's likely she's lying to you if she said the other wife knows.

Have you exposed to her family?

Letting her date is not the way to get out of infidelity, she won't care if she's used for sex, she's got her husband at home, making her life cushy and easy, and she can go out and do what she wants.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time. The best chance you have is not doing the pick me dance.

Lost, i am sorry you had to find us.

Before you worry about divorce (D) or not, you need to take care of you.

1) doctor for full panel STD. Don’t have sex with her without protection until she gets tested too. Cheaters lie and do their affair partners (AP).

2) eat well, drink lots of water, exercise, sleep. You need as clear a head as you can have, and these help mind and body. Avoid alcohol.see doc if you can’t sleep.

3) lawyer. No decision- for information and education. Knowledge is power. Don’t tell her, just learn what D might look like, what you need to be aware of in your state.

4) read here in the healing library(upper left in yellow box) and on the Just Found Out forum.

5) keep posting. Weekends are slow, others will be by soon.

6) remember that you did nothing to cause this. NOTHING. This is 100% on her and her choices.

You’ll get through this- it will suck for sure- but you will get through it.

For those of you who went through a separation/divorce, how do you deal with the hope that the other side will come to their senses? 

You stop hitting the hopium pipe. Hopium is the most commonly abused substance by betrayed spouses. Clear your head. Get off the drug. Eyes forward.

I still hope, if I'm honest. Though, at this point, I have no idea what I hope for. I want the hope to go away. To stay away.

A quote from an old Criminal Minds episode keeps ringing in my head.

"Hope is paralyzing" It is. I have lived it for over 4 years.

Lost,

Sorry you're here man. This sucks. We are here for you though and will support you, even though you don't know us. Check out the healing library and read as much as you can. The FAQ for BS is great too. Be strong and don't hurt yourself. The pain will increase, then numb, then get better. I'm in the numb stage.

The only big thing I have to say is denial man. It's your worst enemy. I suggest reading in the just found out forum. You'll see lots of the same similar attitudes with cheaters. You'll notice them in your wife, and you'll figure out your wife isn't someone special and is emotionally abusing you more than anyone could abuse someone else. You'll find out that your wife has more to the story, is continuing the affair, and honestly doesn't care that you're hurting like you are because of her actions.

If your son was getting physically abused by his wife constantly, would you want him to stay in that marraige for his kids sake? Denial tells us to stay, that our wife isn't abusing us, that she cares. It isn't true or she wouldn't do it. Or that emotional abuse is OK, it's not the same as physical abuse.

Seperation is good. Clears the fog. Gives you time to heal and get strong. Don't commit to R anytime soon.

I suggest reading in the just found out forum. You'll see lots of the same similar attitudes with cheaters. You'll notice them in your wife, and you'll figure out your wife isn't someone special and is emotionally abusing you more than anyone could abuse someone else. You'll find out that your wife has more to the story, is continuing the affair, and honestly doesn't care that you're hurting like you are because of her actions.

Couldn't have said it better RHT!

Lost9420 - read enough on here and you will see exactly what Red is talking about. Cheaters are depressingly predictable and boring in what they say, how they act, all of it. Look up my SSCS thread in General too.

Personally, I think you are wasting your effort and money on marriage counseling right now. i jumped into that way too soon too and it ended up doing more harm than good. You would do better IMHO to find a good IC for yourself.

The hopium SUCKS. My D will be finalized Dec 13 and not gonna lie there is still in infinitesimal part of me that wishes he would 'come around'. But to what end? At this point, after everything he's done, what in the hell is even left? It took me time to get there, and it will take you time, but you will get there too eventually.

You deserve to be more than plan B. If you let her date, that is what you are making yourself. And you are exactly right - your WW's head is so far up her own tush that she has no idea what reality is right now. This idea of 'perfect'.... She could search for that from now til the rapture and she wouldn't ever find it Easier said than done I know, but my advice would be to tell her you will happily give her a divorce so she can go 'find herself' or whatever.

As for your son - I came from a broken home too. There are certainly down sides to it. But they have actually done studies on this that kids will do fine in divorced families if both parents are happier people as a result. Sure it isn't ideal, but neither is living with in one house with two parents that are miserable.

Talk to your doctor and get STD tested. Also maybe look into getting on some anti-depressants. You don't have to do them forever, but they really helped me a lot going through S & D.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.

Have you exposed to OM's wife yet? Sounds like your wife is still in the affair, so it's likely she's lying to you if she said the other wife knows.

My wife has answered every question I've asked in detail so I trust that she's telling me the truth. I believe her when she says she doesn't want to be with the AP. I have thought about reaching out to the other wife just to corroborate stories but I've moved on from the affair for the most part and am more concerned about the separation/divorce.

Letting her date is not the way to get out of infidelity, she won't care if she's used for sex, she's got her husband at home, making her life cushy and easy, and she can go out and do what she wants.

This does bother me in that she will be getting what she wants. Because she's basically moving into her sister's family, her sister will step into the void of losing me and she'll get the excitement of dating with all of the security of having a "spouse". A large part of me wants her to see the reality of what she's choosing but I don't have control over it.

Before you worry about divorce (D) or not, you need to take care of you.

Thanks, I am trying to but the hardest part is dealing with the nights. I don't get much sleep if at all and it's only possible through alcohol and Benadryl. I know it's unhealthy but right now it's my only way of functioning. I'll talk to my doc/counselor about something for the sleep. Also, she's been to the doc and already have a D lawyer lined up for when we're ready.

You stop hitting the hopium pipe. Hopium is the most commonly abused substance by betrayed spouses. Clear your head. Get off the drug. Eyes forward.

I think I'm getting there but it's painful to come to terms with it. A lot of our discussions have been around why she felt so unhappy. So I completely understand her reasoning from her point of view. That said, I still believe she's looking back at our memories through the toxic lens of the affair and is trying to justify her decisions.

I still hope, if I'm honest. Though, at this point, I have no idea what I hope for. I want the hope to go away. To stay away.

A quote from an old Criminal Minds episode keeps ringing in my head.

"Hope is paralyzing" It is. I have lived it for over 4 years.

Thanks for the honest response - I think it'll be true for me as well. One decision that is looming is if I should move further away. Right now, I'm in the rear unit on our property because I want to still be close to my son and I'm not ready to be completely alone. However, that proximity to my wife won't help getting over her. I just need more time to recover before I move on.

The only big thing I have to say is denial man. It's your worst enemy. I suggest reading in the just found out forum. You'll see lots of the same similar attitudes with cheaters. You'll notice them in your wife, and you'll figure out your wife isn't someone special and is emotionally abusing you more than anyone could abuse someone else. You'll find out that your wife has more to the story, is continuing the affair, and honestly doesn't care that you're hurting like you are because of her actions.

I have confronted her and told her that she was being selfish (by choosing to look elsewhere). I truly believe she is sorry for causing me pain even though she doesn't seem to show it. She's extremely excited to move on and I've only seen her cry maybe twice. She says it's because she's been thinking about it for the duration of the affair (one month) and has already cried about it. A lot of it is her personality - she makes gut decisions and doesn't think much about anything else. So yes, she is selfish but it's not to intentionally hurt anyone. That said, your point about escaping a toxic relationship is valid - I've focused on thinking it wasn't as bad as she says but perhaps this latest choice is an example that I should go.

(((Lost9420))) sorry you are here. I too suggest reading and posting as much as you can here. Get an IC for yourself.

I was on Hopium forever. I wanted R and I wanted my M to make it. I wanted it to be a success story. I tried over and over again and got treated worse and worse. I'll never understand the cruelty.

I had the same fears you had about D. I grew up in a blended family and all my cousins did too. All blended families caused by adults having exit A's including my own parents. The last thing I ever wanted to give my kids was a blended family so I empathize with you. It came down to my mental health being the most important. If I wasn't a healthy mother to my kids, then either way it's not fair. To myself or to them.

Wow, I can't keep up with the replies, thank you!

Personally, I think you are wasting your effort and money on marriage counseling right now. i jumped into that way too soon too and it ended up doing more harm than good. You would do better IMHO to find a good IC for yourself.

Agreed, we are going on more time to discuss telling the family and that'll probably be it. I have started IC as well (session coming up in an hour!) but it'll take time to really help. Right now, talking about it with the counselor or even with friends provides a temporary relief but hasn't eased the times I'm alone.

You deserve to be more than plan B. If you let her date, that is what you are making yourself. And you are exactly right - your WW's head is so far up her own tush that she has no idea what reality is right now. This idea of 'perfect'.... She could search for that from now til the rapture and she wouldn't ever find it Easier said than done I know, but my advice would be to tell her you will happily give her a divorce so she can go 'find herself' or whatever.

I don't really have a choice to "let her date" - she's going to do what she wants. I'm not planning on sticking around waiting for a mess to drop out - I do want to get better so I can be in a place where I can think about dating as well. But you've also confirmed that she's delusional about finding what she wants which makes it even more painful. We had a decent marriage and great family and she's giving it up on a whim.

As for your son - I came from a broken home too. There are certainly down sides to it. But they have actually done studies on this that kids will do fine in divorced families if both parents are happier people as a result. Sure it isn't ideal, but neither is living with in one house with two parents that are miserable.

Yeah, I know in reality my son will be fine and I won't make the same mistakes my father did. But I know it won't be the same. We weren't miserable 3 months ago and she was happy with what we had. Now after the affair, it's not good enough so she thinks she would be miserable in the marriage if it were to continue. I understand that it's probably impossible for her to see our marriage as it was before but because I don't view the marriage as miserable, I have a hard time accepting that we would end up in a household worse than a split family.

I had the same fears you had about D. I grew up in a blended family and all my cousins did too. All blended families caused by adults having exit A's including my own parents. The last thing I ever wanted to give my kids was a blended family so I empathize with you. It came down to my mental health being the most important. If I wasn't a healthy mother to my kids, then either way it's not fair. To myself or to them.

This is what it comes down to for my wife - she thinks she'll be miserable if she stayed with me. I understand her point of view and disagree. Unfortunately, it takes two to make the marriage work and she won't even try. I think that feeling of powerlessness is what is painful right now - we both have our thoughts and wants but mine don't matter because we'd have to agree to R.

The core issue is that she wishes I had the drive to be the best at something (other than the best father and supportive husband).

This sentence is the biggest thing that stood out to me in your original post.

The core issue for her affair is you?

It's super common among various SI members for us to be co-dependents and to be married to people who have narcissistic personality disorders. Basically, who else but a co-dependent would try to fix a marriage ruined by infidelity? Similarly, who else but a narcissist would cheat on a spouse who would try to fix a marriage after infidelity?

The best advice is this:

1) doctor for full panel STD. Don’t have sex with her without protection until she gets tested too. Cheaters lie and do their affair partners (AP).

2) eat well, drink lots of water, exercise, sleep. You need as clear a head as you can have, and these help mind and body. Avoid alcohol.see doc if you can’t sleep.

3) lawyer. No decision- for information and education. Knowledge is power. Don’t tell her, just learn what D might look like, what you need to be aware of in your state.

4) read here in the healing library(upper left in yellow box) and on the Just Found Out forum.

5) keep posting. Weekends are slow, others will be by soon.

6) remember that you did nothing to cause this. NOTHING. This is 100% on her and her choices.

Especially #6.

Along those lines, I really recommend that you read The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist. If you are like me (and many other co-dependents), you think of your wife as a caring, loving person who made a mistake. Chances are... you are wrong. Chances are... she is a lying, manipulative horrible person who does not care about you or your feelings or the consequences of her actions at all.

I am sorry that you are here. Really, truly, I am. We are a great support team and we are here to help. And, just as likely, you will help us.

I just looked up the Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist. WOW. Not a 100% match with my STBXH, but enough that I am stunned. His dad was more of an overt narcissist, so I see where he learned it.

So nice to be able to put words and ideas around what I've been experiencing.

This sentence is the biggest thing that stood out to me in your original post.

The core issue for her affair is you?

It's super common among various SI members for us to be co-dependents and to be married to people who have narcissistic personality disorders. Basically, who else but a co-dependent would try to fix a marriage ruined by infidelity? Similarly, who else but a narcissist would cheat on a spouse who would try to fix a marriage after infidelity?

You're right that I do have the co-dependent personality but to clarify, the core issue for our marriage was our differences in happiness (and what that means). The issue of the affair is entirely on her and objectively it was completely selfish. Her natural tendency when cornered is to run and in this case, she ran into an affair. It was entirely uncharacteristic of her normal self (in her mind, cheating is a crime punishable by death) so the only logical explanation was that she felt trapped. She felt trapped because she wanted to be a career woman but hated not being a perfect mother.

Now, yes, because of my personality, I logically understand where the affair came from, but am very angry that she doesn't value what we had built together the same way I do. Sure, things could have been a little better for me, but she looks back on our time together as a train wreck waiting to happen. I guess at the end of the day, I can't change her mind but this powerlessness to avoid what I see as a mistake is the difficult part.

In terms of my recovery plan, in addition to what has been recommended, at this point in time, I think I'm going to just let myself feel whatever I feel - pain, anger, sadness as well as hope, fondness (of memories), etc. There's no point in trying to control how I feel right now. And as I get through the crisis of the separation, work on resolving each of those feelings as they come up.

Thanks everyone again for the kind words - I hope that in the future when I feel more energetic to be able to help others in need as well.

I’m sorry your wife is refusing to attempt to reconcile.

I guess it would be “too painful” for her to do any work on her own and figure out why she cheated and why she has no boundaries.

It appears that She really is running away from it all and taking the lazy easy way out.

Now, yes, because of my personality, I logically understand where the affair came from,

Dude, trust me. 100% the affair wasn't caused by you. Your wife is a cheating POS and it didn't drive you to go cheat!

the core issue for our marriage was our differences in happiness (and what that means). 

Every cheater tries to make you believe that. It's not true. Your wife feels guilty for cheating. So to make her feel justified in having the affair, she tells herself that the marraige had issues and that she wasn't happy, and heres someone that makes her happy, etc. It's a bunch of garbage. My wife was the same way. During and after the affair, she could only remember the bad times. It's like the good times dissappeared and didn't exist. She rewrote history and took all the times she looked at me and said I love you, or that she told me she had never been happier, etc. If she thinks about those times, then it makes her feel guilty for cheating. So she rewrites history to make it not be, then it isn't and all her girlfriends and sisters rally behind her for 'her own happiness'. It's bull. If you believe it your in denial. I believed it, till I watched some home videos, looked back at past texts, read cute notes my WW left for me in my lunch box, read our journal, etc.

Don't buy into her lies. Some guy on here said it best. He said "I'd never believe my WW again. If her mouth is moving its not true. She could tell me it's raining, and if I walked outside and got soaking wet, I'd still think she's full of shit". Honestly, that's the mode you need to be in now. Your wife lied, left, lied, lied, lied, lied, lied, lied, lied, lied, lied, lied, lied, lied, etc. At what point do you think the trend will break? It won't and doesn't, not till she wakes up. You can't wake her up, only she can do that. Just be skeptical of everything she says. The best way to know is if every time she talks its all about her. Cheaters always bring it back to them. Poor them, they were the victim, you didn't whatever, she was just trying to whatever, yeah she hurt you, but you hurt her so much when you insert something you did but is not really a big deal. This list goes on and on.

In short, it's not your fault, and you probably had a better than most marraige. And she will continue to lie to justify, minimize, or shift blame onto you. Just so you know, all 3 of those things are continued abuse. Lots of people who are abused don't believe that it is our that their abuser is different, because they're in denial. Don't sit in denial, don't tolerate abuse.

You're right that I do have the co-dependent personality but to clarify, the core issue for our marriage was our differences in happiness (and what that means). The issue of the affair is entirely on her and objectively it was completely selfish. Her natural tendency when cornered is to run and in this case, she ran into an affair.

I told myself something like this for 2 years. Basically, you are trying to take responsibility for her affair. You are wrong. It is 100% on her.

Here's the deal... most people tell you things like "you shouldn't quit" and "you need to take responsibility for your mistakes" and things like that. The reason, I am guessing, is that a lot of people want to quit, refuse to blame others, etc.

The problem with this advice is that it is completely wrong for people like me (and I am guessing for people like you). It is okay to quit, sometimes. It is okay to deny responsibility for something that is truly not your fault.

Sorry for the thread jack, but....

I just looked up the Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist. WOW. Not a 100% match with my STBXH, but enough that I am stunned.

I know, right?

It was literally a book that I could not put down once I started reading it. It explained so much about my life. Both marriages. My mother. My brother.

Lost - Please do go read the SSCS thread in General. Your cheater is NO different than any of our cheaters. Most of them are the same... I will just share a little of my tale.

My xwh fell in love with a girl at his work. He decided that he is poly and we should have an open marriage so he can 'have meaningful romantic connections' (insert sarcastic laughing) with other women and I was expected to just 'find a way to deal with it' (I did... spoiler alert: changed the locks and erased him from my existence). He felt like he couldn't love me the 'way I deserved' anymore (smh). Told his AP that he 'couldn't find true happiness with just his wife'. He apparently hadn't been happy for years (funny I never heard about that before this). I was 'not fun', I 'didn't excite him' (well, hard to be fun and exciting when I am the only one working and being a grown up). We went to marriage counseling and that was a huge error (the male counselor told me that to heal I just needed to 'put it in my past and never speak about it again', effectively telling my wh that I was the irrational one for feeling about it). xh needs to go date and fuck multiple partners, you see, to be 'happy'. Oh! Forgot to add - he deemed that we should 'remain best friends' after he told me to 'get the divorce over with' in a text. Yeahno, that's not happening.

I too wished he would remove his dumbass head from his tookas, but alas he did not. And probably never will. And I am not putting my life on hold waiting for that to happen.

So a few nuances in mine are different, but can you see the parallels?

Truly, your wife is nothing special. She is one more broken fucked up person that has an overlarge sense of entitlement and an underdeveloped sense of morality and integrity. The infidelity bullshit sucks sucks sucks. But nothing sucks worse than trying to 'fix' someone who doesn't care and doesn't want to be fixed. All you will do is cause yourself more pain and upset and it won't change anything. Ask me how I know that.

Also, I don't give a shit if you were the worst husband on the planet (and guess what - you weren't), nothing NOTHING excuses her choice to cheat on you. NONE of that decision of hers is your fault in any way. Period.

PS - Barcher - holy shitsnacks that covert narcissist stuff.... spot on. I need to pick up that book too I think.

Yep. None of their choices are your fault. Mine? After cheating a third time and realizing I really am filing, he keeps saying, “Why couldn’t you just say ‘I love you? Were you ever plain saying it?” Ok. Seriously? After all he did, it took me years but to want to hurt myself fur trying to R. I felt like a complete idiot. So his parking lot bj really just cemented that it didn’t matter how much therapy we did or what I tried, he really was always going to have a reason to do what he wanted to do. It doesn’t hurt less. I still feel like shit. But at least now I’m not being lied to anymore.

Lost: you story is similar to mine and a lot of other men on here. Right now, you're frantic in trying to save your M, thats what men do. We try to fix things. In time, you'll start to realize that the stuff your WW did during the A, and the stuff shes doing now is not acceptable behavior, and you'll be glad you took steps to get out of Infidelity. That means to put tough boundaries in place immediately, and start saving yourself.

You see, during the A, the WW built up this distaste for you. Reasons that enabled her to cheat in the first place to alleviate her guilt. The I love you but I'm not in love with you nonsense. My exWW said the same thing, and we were together for longer than you were. They do that b/c otherwise, they'd have to look in the mirror and justify ruining a good marriage to chase a fantasy. There are women and men who actually believe in movies like "LOVE ACTUALLY". I just have to laugh, b/c they want to exist in this Unicorn/Fairyland that only last in movies.

- Please blow that other man up, and tell his wife. You're obviously not over the A, and she has a right to know her husband is cheating on her. The other benefit is it may also ruin your WWs fantasy if he is some exec, he's got a lot to lose. He may drop your WW on the curb immediately. PLEASE PLEASE CONTACT THE OTHER WIFE IMMEDIATELY WITHOUT TELLING YOUR WW.

- Do not abandon your SON. The courts won't like it, and its not fair to him either.

- Contact an attorney. You see how you WW already has an attorney on retainer? You've now fallen behind. She has someone on her side, you need to take this seriously and get off the Hopium pipe.

- We all went thru something similar to you. Your hope and your wives delusion are not unique. If you read thru the JFO forum, its filled with spouses that are on the hopium pipe. The typical BS usually wants to try and fix things. The WW/WH is living in fantasyland. You're not different, so if you want the best chance to waking her up, is to not play the pick me dance. Right now, you're hoping that she eventually picks you and the Marriage, as oppose to this new found freedom and life she's about to embark on. A groveling husband who will do whatever it takes to keep her, and forgive her infidelity is NOT really attractive to the cheating type.

- Lastly, take care of yourself. Its tough, but start implementing the 180. Stop trying to convince her to stay in the marriage, and start working on yourself and let her know that you'll be just fine or better without her around.