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Is it possible for a WS fix themselves without a Dday?

Maybe I'm unclear about what 'fixing themselves' means.

For me, it's introspection for the WS that encompasses it being ok to lie to their BS and have an affair - then correcting the issues. Obviously the affair has to be over for that introspection to occur. If a WS wants intimacy with their BS, then the lying has to end.. it's impossible IMO to have real intimacy alongside deception - the two are mutually exclusive and don't go together at all.

So the first correction in fixing would (IMO) be to stop lying.

I may be alone in this, but I strongly believe that as long as the truth is not confessed the affair continues. Sure, the WS can stop the act of cheating, but the continued lying is done to manipulate their BS and to protect themselves along with their AP. A WS that fixes themselves elevates their BS above not just the AP, but above their own desires. They own their shit, and tell the truth. Then get on about the job of fixing what they broke both outside of themselves (the BS and M) as well as the inner dialogue that made cheating a viable option.

Opinions?

There is no real reconcilliation in my mind without a dday.

Without the BS knowing, the WS is still lying, and there can be no reconciliation or true healing for the WS.

An important aspect of personal growth (aka "fixing oneself") is authenticity. Being authentic means being honest - with ourselves and with others.

Without honesty and authenticity one cannot grow in a genuine and meaningful way. Without honesty and authenticity, one is also incapable of true emotional intimacy with their partner, which is necessary for a healthy relationship.

Is it possible for a WS fix themselves without a Dday?

No.

It is like trying to heal a broken leg without a doctor. The leg will heal improperly and there will always be a limp.

My wife tried. And tried. And finally, she realized the only way to save us was to tell me.

I will grant she did take steps to heal herself along the way and yet, was able to hold on to some of her justification for the A while it was a secret. I think as long as people try to justify ANY poor choice, they haven't learned from it.

Not a chance.

My W started therapy long before d-day. Her IC became our MC. I asked our MC what she would have done if W had confessed her A in an IC session.

MC responded that her first choice would have been a joint session with me in which my W confessed.

If I had been unwilling to do that, she would have had my W call me during a session and confess, after she (MC) had done everything possible to confirm my identity.

My sometime dream of W confessing in session and fixing herself without my ever knowing about the A was truly a fantasy.

BTW, one of the reasons I never cheated is that I've always thought that I couldn't stay M unless I confessed.

If they are OK with maintaining a lie, they can not possibly be 'fixed'.

Those who are STILL lying lack remorse.

And those who lack remorse will likely cheat again.

I'm a no. They have gotten away with it. No consequences. They, most likely, have never faced the reality of losing their marriage, family, and respect, not to mention the disgrace of divorce and financial upheaval.

No. Without a huge element of challenge (from me), WH would still have been justifying it by my actions etc. Likewise, if you commit a crime, and never get caught for it, I think there must be some thought of 'getting away with it' in your mind.

So no, and I would like to see that WS convince their BS of their newfound humility and amazinness after DDay. Wouldn't interest me, it has to be said.

I took issue with this in the 'After the Affair' book which our MC recommended. I think if you don't want to be close enough to your BS to tell them everything significant about your life, a WS like that should probably end the marriage anyway. Save that BS the years of terrible communication and feeling like they can't get close to you and they're not enough for you. OR be honest and face your fate. Being the one to tell them you did it and it's over and you never want to do it again will go a heck of a long wayI wish my WS could have been that honest with me.

There was an ow that was around here for a long time that worked on herself to fix herself without telling her bs under the assumption that she saw the pain bs's went through in jfo and didn't want that for her bh.

Do I think she worked out her why's and would never cheat again? Absolutely. I have a lot of respect for the work she put in even if I didn't agree with her no telling him.

If I could go back in time and get a whole marriage without all the pain of the betrayal? That's pretty tempting.

So I would venture to say yes.

I can guarantee that my wife would have never gotten "fixed" if it hadn't been for D-day. Mostly because her IC at the time (who we fired shortly after D-day) was the one who told her our M was over and walked her through the grieving process. That led her to believing that her A wasn't a problem because she didn't actually have an M. Of course, she failed to tell me about this...

No....

No authentic relationship when the wayward is still lying - lies to their spouse and lies to self.

I lied for four years, and for 20 months I have been telling the full truth - no TT from d-day, full confession upon being asked.

I know the difference first hand. It's particularly sad for the betrayed when the wayward thinks "they can get away with it."

Even if it's worded under the guise of protecting them.....

Ask me how I know.

Hmm, I clearly don't want to do my reporting this afternoon, so.. at severe risk of ire from others, please read to end.. please!

I edited to this ETA: A very succinct version of what I think would be that I think people here are mixing a moral judgement about lying and truth - that I agree with!! - with a more physical truth that says people can change and make amends without telling those from whom they stole.

Now, the root question would be, can you change enough if you hold that one thing within you? The answer here, and I don't really disagree, is no. But, I think it is possible for some...

-- IDK

[This message edited by idontknow123 at 10:03 PM, July 5th (Wednesday)]

Not gonna happen. Part of "fixing" themselves is to be totally, 100% honest with both themselves and their BS. No other way.

No.

I believe a person needs to experience trauma in order to change permanently, and also, honesty and intimacy are necessarily accompanying. So without telling the truth, a WS will never reach the level at which I would call them healed. They are still carrying a facade, and shame or lack of remorse.

Fix themselves? Sure.

Have a healthy M? No way.

Maybe authentic would be a better word choice.

Yes - I'm gonna post again to clarify too:

heal without d-day - sure, yes that can happen.

Heal their marriage? No chance in hell......