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I’m curious about something

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Jameson1977 posted 4/16/2020 16:26 PM

waitedwaytoolong, so similar.

Prior to dday (even though she had already cheated, twice), she would NOT have tolerated any physical abuse from me. After dday, she said she wished that I would hit her, so she would feel some of the pain I did. Right after dday is so raw.

bluephoenix posted 4/16/2020 16:50 PM

I don't think it should be generalized at all. I was financially, emotionally and verbally abused by my ex-husband and I was the BW. What difference does it make? There is plenty of BS's on this forum that have been in abusive relationships with their WS's. It's not one genre over the other.

Stinger posted 4/16/2020 16:51 PM

I pointed you to the Wiki article containing dozens of references. Yeah, right, the demand is 1,000 times greater.

Justsomelady posted 4/16/2020 17:25 PM

Not saying it is 1,000 times greater and maybe there is an unmet need For it, but I really don’t see local shelters running a fundraising or capital campaign for it...and they are the ones taking the calls...so I am assuming that means it is not needed.

The wiki didn’t enlighten me...what should I have seen?
I will agree it’s is likely the case it is under reported. but to exceed what happens to women? I will believe it when I see it on the NIH or even my local Y.

The wiki page I located said ”Family violence scholar Richard Gelles published an article entitled "Domestic Violence: Not An Even Playing Field" and accused men's rights groups of distorting research findings on men's and women's violence to promote a misogynistic agenda.[33] Some domestic violence scholars and advocates have rejected the research cited by men's rights activists and dispute their claims that such violence is gender symmetrical,[34][35][36] arguing that their focus on violence against men stems from a political agenda to minimize the severity of the problem of men's violence against women and children[34] and to undermine services to abused women.[36]“

Justsomelady posted 4/16/2020 17:26 PM

What difference does it make?

This is the wayward forum and this is a specific self loathing phenomenon she wanted to explore...at the end of the day violence is violence and is terrible but I think she wanted to explore that particular psyche/emotional situation.

Stinger posted 4/16/2020 17:58 PM

Yes, I know that is the take SOME researchers take, thetired misogyny deal.
I have no issue with fully supporting any campaign against violence toward women. Supporting men's needs at the same time is not anti women.
I think it is clear that men and women abuse and the rates are not terribly disparate.
Yet, when was the last time you saw and ad or billboard offering support for physically abused men?
By your own admission, the number of shelters is way disproportionate, such that even if the rates are as you claim, a 4 to 1 or so rate, the shelter disparity is still huge.
Men, in general, are the victims of violent crime much more than women. Yet we have a violence against women act but none for men specifically.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 4/16/2020 18:26 PM

Please stop the arguing and get back on topic.

Poppy704 posted 4/16/2020 19:42 PM

Many users of this website excuse physical and emotional abuse and illegal actions like tape recording,coercion, intimidation, harassment , etc etc etc . So of course WS accept that they “deserve” abuse, for years and years and years, and if they don’t accept it as their just desserts, it is further proof of their “waywardness”.

[This message edited by Poppy704 at 7:43 PM, April 16th (Thursday)]

waitedwaytoolong posted 4/16/2020 20:06 PM

I think it is a big jump from physical abuse to a BS who after having their lives destroyed may call their WS names, records them to find out if cheating is still happening, or coerces them by threatening With divorce or making public what they did if they aren’t truthful. There are gradations to this. You either are physical with someone or not

I will agree that the above behavior can’t go on forever if you want your marriage back, but a WS has to expect consequences for their actions

They never should accept physical abuse however.

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 8:07 PM, April 16th (Thursday)]

Stinger posted 4/16/2020 20:13 PM

I doubt many do. And, depending on the jurisdiction, tape recording can be perfectly legal. Waywards are, by definition, abusers. That does not mean it is ok to abuse back.
Why people, men and women, accept abuse is varied.
The vast majority of stories I read do not involve BS engaging in abuse, verbal, physical or emotional. A few do, however. They appear to be outliers.
Waywards, OTOH, have all engaged in what many therapists consider the most severe form of emotional abuse. Yet, still, very few betrayed retaliate,IMO.

Thanksgiving2016 posted 4/16/2020 20:18 PM

I think some people in infidelity have a dysfunctional relationship to begin with. Personally I can understand striking out in anger on DDay for either spouse. I also think some WW are already in abusive marriages and have exit affairs as a result of poor coping skills or they think an exit affair is a way out. Then after DDay she falls back into excuses. Sad cycle.

Brokenlifer posted 4/16/2020 23:49 PM

That does not mean it is ok to abuse back.

But it does mean that the BS who 'abuses'in their pain and trauma shouldn't be villified while a calculated WS gaslights and gives their spouse stds gets sympathy and support and 'everyone makes mistakes'. We shouldn't be talking about physical abuse of WW like it's some heinous thing but a WS deliberately harming their BS and gaining pleasure from it (we see this often) is just 'sad'.

It's just as bad. Personally I would have preferred a BH hitting me out of anger once and being sorry, to a WH who repeatedly harmed my sexuak sexual health and isn't that sorry.

No one says 'your spouse hit you but you should work thorough it on your own and don't remind them cause it makes them feel bad and it's not healthy for the marriage. They said they're sorry. Focus on what they're doing today. Theu didn't hit you today" That's what we say here or imply to BS that struggle for more than the acceptable time period, which is that they need to get over it.

Abuse is abuse. A slap from a hurt spouse is not worse (or harmful or cruel) than chlamydia or hiv from a spouse who enjoyed degrading you by sleeping with you after his mistress. And the BW is no less defensive or vulnerable.

HellFire posted 4/17/2020 09:25 AM

Ive always found it intersting that when a WW posts on here that she's been hit by her BH, the overwhelming response is to leave, he's dangerous, no one deserves to be abused.

This is said by cheating wives,whether former, or freshly caught. Regardless it is said by abusers.

Abusers who have handed their BS a dday. Or many. Abusers who have exposed their spouse to deadly stds. Or a potential bunnyboiler. Abusers who got off on their side piece being friends with their wife. Abusers who have gaslit, lied, had sex with their BS the same day as their AP. Abusers who emotionally abused their BS during the affair, to justify their shitty behavior. Etc, etc, etc.

Abusers who are wanting reconciliation. Abusers who take offense at the once a cheater,always a cheater cliche. Abusers who feel they deserve a second chance.

No one deserves to be abused. Not a WS. Not a BS. This website is here to heal from ABUSE. Let's all not forget that.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:26 AM, April 17th (Friday)]

Zugzwang posted 4/17/2020 10:04 AM

I have to wonder if some is biological as well. My wife grew up in a very abusive childhood. The whole gambit. She came out stronger. Her sister came out damaged and jumping from one abusive relationship to the next. Men that treated her like shit. Put her down. Yelled at her. Her other sister that killed herself the same. (Yes, I consider my cheating abuse too. Emotional rape is what my wife called it in the beginning. Before we argue about that too and cause a T/J...she is a CSA victim so she can call it that if she wants) Though I was never the one to ever yell at her, call her names, put her down and abuse her in anyway since I have known her 1993 to be exact. When we were in engaged I came home drunk (driving)and she gave the ring back and said she refused to marry a man like that. I never did it again. My wife has self respect. Why? Why her and not her siblings that grew up the same? I pushed my wife one time in the 16 years we have been married during a discussion about me and my whys. She threw me out. Why, did I push her. Out of fear and pain. She was digging into something I wasn't willing to acknowledge and share about myself. I remember exactly when 18months after Dday. Shortly before I hit rock bottom and "got it". I say it often and it was touched on in here. Self respect has much to do with it. We teach people how we want to be treated and there are people that are just willing to take advantage of that.

Zugzwang posted 4/17/2020 10:05 AM

Is self loathing being used instead of lack of self respect. We teach each other that hate isn't the opposite of love. Wouldn't that hold true for if we don't love and respect ourselves, then we wouldn't have self loathing either? Wouldn't it just be we are indifferent with ourselves?

Stinger posted 4/17/2020 16:25 PM

I am a CSA. This cheating deal was way worse, from someone I trusted vs some strange neighbor guy when I was 11. Took me much longer to get over.
I had zero desire to rail at my cheating Xw. Just wanted to get the hell away from her.

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