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I’m curious about something

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Darkness Falls posted 4/15/2020 18:50 PM

Betrayed wives and wayward wives both get physically abused by their husbands. Yet I’ve never seen a BW excuse it, yet almost EVERY WW does. Why is this? It makes me sad to think a woman feels there is anything that justifies them being hit by their spouse.

Edited to clarify: I mean the WW being hit excuses it. Not that all WW think it’s OK on behalf of other WW who are victims of physical violence.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 6:57 PM, April 15th (Wednesday)]

Hippo16 posted 4/15/2020 19:22 PM

a good place to find the answer is a book:

"The Body Keeps the Score" Bessel van de Kork, MD

the mind of a WW is not working normal - de Kork does a good job of what is "wired" wrong. fairly complicated and a lot of detail involving nervous system and brain functions

and in most cases and a lot of work (IC) WW can be fixed.

same applies to WHs

leavingorbit posted 4/15/2020 19:31 PM

Shame. Low self-worth. Trauma and abuse cycles. No boundaries or very weak ones.

I think for me it was early childhood trauma and abuse (normalized abuse) -> no boundaries -> low self-worth -> shame -> repeat, pick a card, any card...

It is sad.

nomudnolotus posted 4/16/2020 00:13 AM

Nothing excuses physical abuse. Being wayward is not a justification for a bs being physically abusive.

It's pretty much the same as saying something justifies having an affair.

There are more vows said than just being faithful.

I am a bs not a ws. I cannot understand how anyone justifies this. I don't care how angry and upset someone is. If they feel they should be able to hit their wayward they should just leave right then.

It always makes me so upset when I see someone saying waywardness is a justification for physical abuse. It's just not.

forgettableDad posted 4/16/2020 04:04 AM

I've seen on another forum for dealing with affairs (not SI) some threads regarding a woman who cheated and was severely abused by her husband afterwards for a year, maybe more - physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse. Very few of the posters even acknowledged that a husband/wife who were betrayed can even be classified as abusive, let alone try to help the woman.

One of the forum's moderators is actively abusive of his wife as well. Although he doesn't see it that way. Kinda makes me sad.

I think the inherit biological/neurological differences between men and women gear men to be far more likely be physically abusive.

The reality is that trauma fucks us up. Childhood trauma. Adult trauma. This may not be a very popular opinion but infidelity is traumatic and therefore can lead (like any other) to abusive behaviors (whether towards oneself, partner or children). That's why both the betrayed and the cheater need to seek individual therapy.

Darkness Falls posted 4/16/2020 07:00 AM

I think the inherit biological/neurological differences between men and women gear men to be far more likely be physically abusive.

I understand that. BWs on this forum have been physically abused too, by their WH—yet I don’t recall any who have tolerated it or rugswept it. Yet I see that fairly often from WW, ranging from accepting it as par for the course because they cheated to being desperate to stay married in spite of it.

I wasn’t asking why men hit women more than women hit men—my question was why more WW feel it’s OK to take it.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

Justsomelady posted 4/16/2020 07:10 AM

I think the world in general is still ok with women being hurt. It’s allowed. And a damaged person is going to accept messed up circumstances and blame themselves for it.

Darkness Falls posted 4/16/2020 07:21 AM

And a damaged person is going to accept messed up circumstances and blame themselves for it.

Definitely agree.

leavingorbit posted 4/16/2020 08:59 AM

Shame is powerful and insidious. Why do people/women stay after multiple “RAs” (As)? Ongoing financial infidelity? Abusive patterns of behavior in front of kids, like passive aggression or cruel sarcasm? Alcoholism? Addiction?

There was definitely a learning curve as to how to handle the roller coaster for both me and my husband. However, if it had devolved any further from the shitshow it already was into physical abuse, or if we didn’t stop our addictive behaviors, one of us would have had to pull the plug. I don’t think that means we were lacking love or compassion. If anything, I feel like there’s a ton of compassion in not enabling abuse.

Pain breeds entitlement. That may allow for understanding or context but it’s never an excuse. I have seen the idea of, “you’ll pass judgement on your spouse after what you did?” How is a lack of boundaries authentic or loving? How are boundaries judgmental? I 100% understand why something may be filtered defensively by a BS. I felt like that too when my husband would push back against something I said or how I expressed it. So did my husband. Defensiveness! How novel, right? I think that saying someone got “pushed too far” is justification and blameshifting. Hitting your spouse means something was in YOU, not your spouse, just like cheating. It’s absolutely pain and yet pain is not an excuse.

If my husband or myself didn’t speak up and set boundaries, we would be the same unhealthy people that cheated to escape our problems. It’s like “you cheated, you fucking whore” vs “you cheated, fix your broken shit.”

“You hit me, it’s ok, you’re in pain.”
Vs
“You’re in pain, you hit me, and I will not stay unless you’re in therapy and anger management.”

This was more gender neutral musings, DF, sorry if it’s a T/J.

DoinBettr posted 4/16/2020 09:10 AM

I can see the WW accepting it in 1 of 2 ways.
Either they see it as a way to more quickly heal and move the BH past the trauma they inflicted. "Get over it quicker." This is more from a controlling WW. They would hate seeing the BH behaving in ways that effect themselves. So they would use physical abuse as a leveling agent. Like how some WW push for revenge affairs so they can feel they still have that power in the relationship.
The other one I could see accepting it is if the wife is more passive. This is the shame side disgusted above. Being able to compartmentalize the affair makes justifying the physical abuse and compartmentalization of why they accept it.

somanyyears posted 4/16/2020 09:12 AM


..trying to establish a publicly accepted policy that physical abuse is unacceptable, is relatively new.
It isn't that long ago that we took little children into the principal's office and strapped their hands with a thick rubber belt!!
Spanking your own children still happens a lot I'd be willing to bet.

The hard face slap was seen in thousands of film and TV shows. Even the Three Stooges slapped each other silly in every show!

The slap that Cher gave to Nicholas Cage in Moonstruck or the grapefruit Jimmy Cagney shmushed into the face of whoever she was? Certainly "abuse" by today's standards.

Sadly, people have had thousands of years to perfect the skill of inflicting control and punishment on fellow human beings.

Society still executes people in a variety of horrific ways, depending on where you are in the world.

The H or W that uses any and all forms of abuse to control and manipulate their spouse or children, anyone for that matter, ??
... should be 'drawn and quartered'

(just kidding... just kidding!!)

I'll confess right here to spanking my own two boys 35-45 years ago, on rare occasions. I'll have to ask them if they remember the reasons for the spank?? I don't....Maybe leaving their LEGO on the floor, again..Looking back, I hate myself for it.

I clearly remember my younger son telling me, after I threatened a spank..: Dad, you can't spank me. I'm too big!! He was 12.. and he was!!!

We still laugh about it today.

I hope we have come a long way towards educating people about the damage and pain inflicted by any form of abuse directed toward anyone.

"In a perfect world... there would be no abuse... or infidelity for that matter.

smy

Stinger posted 4/16/2020 09:14 AM

I have read a number of stories where the BW assaults the WH. Seems that while it is objected to, the objections are not quite as strong as vice versa.
You see this in domestic violence in general. Much more tolerance for female on male abuse. Women abuse men physically more frequently than the reverse. Yet, while there are thousands of shelters for women, there are almost none for men.

leavingorbit posted 4/16/2020 09:17 AM

@Stinger I agree, violence is normalized for everyone, globally. This topic is addressing something specific though about WWs.

somanyyears posted 4/16/2020 09:27 AM


..I clearly remember my own WW slapping her own face, hard, several times.. on a few occasions over the last 10 years.

I wonder if she 'expected' ME to do it?

smy

pinkpggy posted 4/16/2020 09:27 AM

I have read here, specifically on the Divorce forum of BW being abused by WH. There is one in particular where the woman lives in another country. I don't think it can be generalized to just WW. I thing it is more to do with your self worth than anything. And abuse is abuse, many BW stay through TONS of abuse (including the cheating) and look the other way.

Justsomelady posted 4/16/2020 09:32 AM

I don’t think she’s generalizing, as was said above violence is normalized for all genders and it sucks - but there is a specific issue with violence against women that is much more prevalent and accepted across cultures.

And this specific thread is about a specific phenomenon of WW and not about others...so am not sure where some of the other commenters are coming from

Smy - that is interesting (and heartbreaking) about your wife. I noticed another BH post something similar yesterday. I think self loathing and feeling they deserve the punishment is a big element to this specific phenomenon

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 9:34 AM, April 16th (Thursday)]

Stinger posted 4/16/2020 09:34 AM

I think the same can be said for BHs. Whenever we come to domestic violence awareness week, the ads are devoid of showing abused men, even though studies show they are physically abused by female partners with greater frequency.

Justsomelady posted 4/16/2020 09:38 AM

I’ve never heard men are abused more frequently. Everything I see is about the excessive violence against women. Totally awful any way you slice it though and am sure it impacts some men, too. But that isn’t the point of this post anyway.

Personally -I only know of women who have been abused and two killed by husbands in my family. I only know of one woman who killed her lover in my extended friends group. But she was a crazed OW

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 9:41 AM, April 16th (Thursday)]

Justsomelady posted 4/16/2020 09:40 AM

CDC says

“ About 1 in 4 women and nearly 1 in 10 men have experienced contact sexual violence, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner during their lifetime and reported some form of IPV-related impact.”

Stinger posted 4/16/2020 09:43 AM

There are quite a few studies that show that female on male partner violence is more frequent.

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