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An update on N and I

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WalkinOnEggshelz posted 2/27/2020 06:39 AM

Put yourself in my shoes for a second. How would you proceed with this?

I have told you in the past that your situation reminds me very much of my own.

I'm not scared to be intimate with him. I do follow his lead, but once it starts, I don't back down. I follow his lead because I don't want to start something and it trigger him.

I know you say you don’t want to trigger him, but this might be part of the problem. Taking his lead puts a lot on his shoulders. Recovering from infidelity requires a great amount of vulnerability. If you are taking his lead, that requires him to consistently hold the olive branch. It requires him to be the one to be vulnerable. It requires him to put in the greatest amounts of effort. In the earlier stages of our Reconciliation my husband needed me to be the one to initiate that level of intimacy. I am not just speaking of physical intimacy, but emotional as well. He needed me to be able to come to him unprompted and expose to him just how I felt about the affair, about us, about his pain. He was too exhausted, too hurt to have to be the one to keep leading the way.

You say that he doesn’t want to talk. Don’t take away his right to listen. There seems to be too many attempts at trying to interpret what he says and does. Take him for face value. Unless he tells you directly to stop texting or communicating with him, don’t stop. Allow yourself to be the vulnerable one. Hold onto the olive branch for awhile and take the lead on this.

There is a big difference in asking him what he wants such as. “Do you want me to hug you?” vs telling him what you want; “I want to hug you right now.” “Do you want to talk?” Or “I really want to talk to you.” The first examples put the owners on him and the latter demonstrates your desire. The latter also shows a willingness to put yourself out there and risk his rejection.

When people tell you to fight for your marriage, this is what they are talking about. Take initiative. Be willing to be vulnerable. Take the lead and extend the olive branch. Be ok with rejection without going straight to divorce.

This is a hard route to take. It requires a lot of guts and courage and there is a risk of exposing yourself to more hurt. Don’t add to your list of regrets.

LifeDestroyer posted 3/8/2020 10:22 AM

I have been asking if I could come over at night to spend time together. He would either say no or that he was going to bed early or not answer at all. I then gave him some time and really didn’t text him at all unless it was about our daughter. Thursday night, I had enough. I sent him a text saying how much I love him, care about him, and miss him. I admitted that I had been giving him the space that he wanted. I told him that I want to prevent the reality of what seems like is going on in his head. He never responded.

Friday morning I went over for our daughter. I thought he would leave right away, but instead he stood by the sink with his arms crossed. I told him that eventually we will have to talk. He said he knows I'm tired of being stuck in limbo too. I said to him, “ I told you that I would wait and I will. What I'm tired of is not being able to talk to you.” He asked about what. I told him anything. I asked him if he's been having good days. He shook his head no. He went on to tell me that he has gained 25lbs since my last tt. He's gone to bed by 5 twice this week, will wake up to talk to our daughter, and then back to sleep.. He also said that he doesn't think he will be seeing his IC anymore. I asked why, and he said because "she can't help until I'm ready to be helped and it's a waste of money." I asked how work was going. He said he's able to fake it there so it's fine.
The whole time he was standing there arms crossed looking very sad. I knew if that was I would want a hug, so I walked up to him and gave him one. He then told me that he is taking more sleeping pills than his usual one to help him fall asleep. Then he left.

Friday night I texted him saying that if he wants some company that I would love to be it, but no reply. He took our daughter to the movies yesterday. I texted him a couple of times just asking about the movie, which he did reply to. Then I told him that I would really like to come over and asked him to think about it. Later on that night, after I spoke to my daughter, he replied back saying he didn’t have anything I would want to talk about. I said we can talk about whatever or just sit there. I just wanted to spend time with him. He said if I came over that he would only discuss divorce. I told him that we could discuss that, but I would just keep saying how that’s not what I want and that I won’t give up. He said it would be a pointless conversation then. I asked him if divorce was truly what he wanted to happen. He said he didn’t want any of this. I apologized for turning his life into this. I sat here not knowing if I should go over or not. If I should text him or just leave him alone. I decided to drive over to the house. I wasn’t sure if he went to sleep right after her, so when I saw the lights on, I texted him asking if I could come in. He had no idea I was there. I had to wait outside for a bit because our daughter took a long time falling asleep.

When I finally got in, we just sat there for a little bit not talking. I asked him some questions about their day, he would answer and then go silent again. He said he wasn’t sure if he was going to go on a trip that he has already booked. There is an event in CA in May for his hobby. He has already signed up, purchased the plane tickets, car rental, and hotel/air bnb stay. I asked him why he wouldn’t go on the trip. He said he hasn’t really been into the hobby. He does it, but isn’t into it. I told him that he should go, he’s already paid for everything, and it would be a lot of fun. He said “if I don’t want to go, then I’m not going.” We were silent again for a little bit.

I finally told him that we can try. He said that we did try, which took me by surprise. I asked him how if we’ve been separated. He meant while being married. I told him that we can actually try, we can talk to each other, we can work together. He said he wants to be alone. I told him that I don’t actually believe that. While I know he likes to be a loner, I truly don’t believe he wants to be alone. I told him how I know he enjoys having our loud in your face daughter around, and that’s definitely not being alone. He said it was different because she doesn’t have a voice. He doesn’t want to have to care about someone or try or bending over backwards. I told him that is exactly what he does with her. He said she’s the only one he wants to do that for. I said “ok, but what if that changes? What if you do realize that you don’t want to be alone?” He cut me off before I could say more with “Then I’ll find someone new.” That stopped me.

I kept trying. I asked him what if he realizes that he wants to be with me. He said he doesn’t want to see himself as being pathetic. If he stays with me then he is pathetic in his mind. I asked him why he couldn’t see himself as a man trying to keep his family together instead. I told him that I don’t truly believe he wants a divorce. I said “I know it’s not just about (dd) or the finances. If you wanted a divorce, then you would have filed already. There is something else going on that’s stopping you.” He tried saying that it was the finances, that he doesn’t want to lose half of everything he has worked for. I didn’t say it, but I call bullshit on that. I know him and money/material things. He would have been gone by now. I kept asking him to let us try. I said that I would not be moving back in, that we would take things slow, but that we would actually try to work together.

He said that he has to see how much of me he can live with in his life, just as a co-parent or more. I told him if it was more, then I could possibly help him (like with triggers). He said he wants to get to a place of indifference with me. He doesn’t want to have to reclaim places with me, or go on vacations. That all just seems too painful, his words. He doesn’t want to always be on edge when he goes out, afraid he’ll see the ap. He wants to be able to drive down the road and not wonder if that is the parking lot we were in. I told him that I was sorry that he now has to feel like that each day.

He finally said the conversation was done because neither one of us are saying what the other wants. I asked him if he actually wanted me to say “sure let’s get a divorce.” He said “yes, actually I would really like for you to say that.” I asked him “Is it because then it wouldn’t all be on you?” He shook his head yes. Again, I asked him if we can try.

As I got up to leave, we stood there by the door. I really didn’t want to walk out. He said he was glad I was feeling better, I had the flu recently. I asked him one last time if we can please try. He said goodnight, and I walked out.

He just texted saying that he wants me to know that asking me to leave last night was hard. He struggles to make eye contact because he thinks he's hurting me.

[This message edited by LifeDestroyer at 10:24 AM, March 8th (Sunday)]

HonestInterest posted 3/10/2020 03:10 AM

HonestInterest posted 3/10/2020 03:11 AM

HonestInterest posted 3/10/2020 03:11 AM

At least your trying

HonestInterest posted 3/10/2020 03:11 AM

At least your trying

BeyondRage posted 3/10/2020 11:51 AM

LD,

I am going to preface my remarks with the disclosure that I have had numerous PM conversations with your husband and i am NOT going to discuss anything he and I said.

One thing in reading your threads I am going to say is that I am one of the many who knew your original story was bull shit and i will also add that my guess is if you were my wife you would not be any more. mostly on the lies and TT afterward. That is old news.

I was hoping for you two to R though because you have been in my opinion pretty damm brave and determined to do your part both in coming back here and taking all the 2 X 4's thrown at you since your return. Most would have cut and run long before now from what has been thrown at you.

You were also absolutely failed by two therapists who sat there and listened to you and never called you out for not being truthful when 99% of the non professionals here saw right through it. To take your money for what you got in my opinion was borderline fraud. Had they called you out right away you probably might have come around to the truth before the polygraph and maybe been in different circumstances.

So all I can say, I know it is not really advice, is "its not over till the fat lady sings". I admire not your actions but your courage to hang in there and I believe you are trying your best to convince your husband that you will do whatever it takes.

Stay the course. Good things sometimes happen to people who do not quit when it is easier to do that.

Good luck

LifeDestroyer posted 3/10/2020 14:54 PM

Thank you BR. I do think the fat lady is getting ready to go on stage. This morning he sent me an email about divorce finances and said he thinks it's time we both start working towards divorce together. He said he's been waiting for a moment of clarity or peace, but neither have come. I said maybe that's because divorce isn't the answer. I kept begging. He asked me to stop doing that because it's only making it harder.

Justsomelady posted 3/10/2020 20:05 PM

I’m so sorry to hear that. He is ending IC, pulling away from his hobby, and shutting you down. It really does seem like he isn’t interested in R at this point but then again just lost month he gave you a valentine.

I also admire your courage and persistence. It seems he is deeply depressed and there isn’t much you can do if he doesn’t want you to keep trying. He has been deeply hurt and he has also only recently truly reckoned with how he hurt and abused you, too. Add to that his grief and it is a lot for a mind to process. Maybe he’ll come back around with time and your your persistence.

I think you should keep trying until he files. It is hard to know what he wants as he goes back and forth so I’d keep trying until then.

ETA - I think - don’t know - that since just last month he was giving you that valentine and now you’re here...that he is feeling the betrayal so deeply and feeing so low that he needs you to keep on as you are, being strong and with time that will reassure him. He was knocked off course when you f’ed up the post-valentine communication. So much so it seems he is in a very insecure space. So anything you do has to be 100 percent reassuring until he pulls the plug. It is your time to be the absolute strong one and not lose your footing.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 8:20 PM, March 10th (Tuesday)]

LifeDestroyer posted 3/10/2020 21:29 PM

I wish he didn't feel like he can't be helped right now. He needs to have someone to talk to. I know he was speaking to a few people here, but he hasn't been on in a month. I don't believe he is speaking to any friends about this, because the last time he mentioned how he felt they were getting tired of hearing him. He's not really talking to his sister either, so he's been very quiet all around.

He's tired. He's tired of all of this shit I dumped on him. He's tired of the past shit that we never worked through. He's asking for my help now because he doesn't want to pull this trigger alone and with a fight.

Hippo16 posted 3/10/2020 21:30 PM

LD:

I may be way out on the narrow end of a limb -

Google:
Healing Your Shame and Guilt Through Self-Forgiveness

on Psychology Today

My thinking is he is hiding from his own past and using your transgression to provide impetus to formally separate. He is running away (he maybe subconsciously thinks) - that won't work.

Seems he isn't thinking much about being a parent with you for as long as you both live. Your daughter will always be a reminder of his time with you.

And then - when she is older and begins to ask questions - what will he have to say for himself?

You both have some bad memories that you have no choice but to figure out how to live for the future without shame. Happiness won't be complete until you both stop shaming yourselves.

Then us "men" often are very stubborn and we have to hit rock-bottom before we see our true selves and make a decision to begin to fix what is wrong with us.

For your own happiness - quit begging but do state what you want for a future. Hard line to toe for sure.

It may take several years for Mr. LD to figure out his issues. Right now you are a convenient "whipping boy."

You seem to be getting over your shame and that is good. Mr. LD has to fix himself. You being the good person for your daughter and your own self will be your best way to move forward.

A wish may come true -


Buster123 posted 3/11/2020 00:46 AM

He's tired. He's tired of all of this shit I dumped on him. He's tired of the past shit that we never worked through. He's asking for my help now because he doesn't want to pull this trigger alone and with a fight.

Based on your update and this paragraph, I think the writing is on the wall, I think N was traumatized to the point of no return, I think the A was a deal-breaker for him but he's also scared of "losing half of everything he worked for", and I think you should graciously offer him a fair deal to end the M. The fact is you killed the M with the A and D is a natural consequence of it. For some reason I think in this case he seems to want a clean slate, and start from scratch, I think he still loves you but can't stay married to you, I'm not sure if it's pride, principles, conviction or any other reason, but that seems to be the case, but because I think he still loves you, I would not discard he would even date you or eventually ask you to move back with him but not as his wife, in other words you would be demoted to live-in girlfriend, but then again he may not.

Dating the same person again and even remarrying after infidelity does not happen very frequently, but it does happen and we've seen it here and other forums, at this point I would encourage you to be brave and follow his lead, don't beg him anymore but tell him you'll be there should he change his mind, call him tomorrow and offer D on his terms (as long as it's fair), tell him that because you love him you will make it as easy as possible for him and that you won't date or see anyone else for at least a year after the D (use that time to work on yourself) out of respect for him (keep in mind that even if you D it would still be difficult for him to know you're dating someone else).

Sometimes a BS has to officially end the M to make R possible, I'm not saying this will be the case in your situation but for some reason I think there's a very slight chance it could happen based on what you posted and provided everything else works, I have even read cases where people filed for D, married other people then D again and remarried the original ex WS/BF/GF. I wish you luck.

Justsomelady posted 3/11/2020 09:45 AM

He's tired. He's tired of all of this shit I dumped on him. He's tired of the past shit that we never worked through. He's asking for my help now because he doesn't want to pull this trigger alone and with a fight.

Then help him pull the trigger and visit an attorney together and split things equally. You don’t deserve a lesser share - you both cheated (and he had the addition of sexually coercive behavior which I think makes his more severe than yours, but I am probably speaking an unpopular opinion).

Bigheart2018 posted 3/11/2020 10:08 AM

Justsomelady,

You are right...I think your assessment is totally out of bounds!!!!

chelsea9 posted 3/11/2020 10:54 AM

LD, I can see from your posts that you have been on a huge journey since you started posting on SI.

But I do see one common thread, that you are desperately trying to get to where you want - which is not surprising or unusual, but which may not be helping.

The fact is that Mr LD is on a roller coaster of emotions and your posts reflect that hope and despair. So you do need to let go of the outcome.

That doesn't mean giving up and agreeing to D. It means putting any end goals to one side and being the best you can for yourself, your child and for him. Make it clear that you want to R but that you won't push - better to achieve it by actions than words (which is what he'll be watching for).

The A may be a dealbreaker, in which case there is nothing you can do anyway. If, in fact, this is about him still trying to process everything that has happened then maybe it's not - so you need to be there in case he comes to that conclusion.

I wish you both the best of luck.

Bigheart2018 posted 3/11/2020 11:24 AM

Ditto chelsea9... Good post.

Lostgirl410 posted 3/11/2020 23:04 PM

It may take several years for Mr. LD to figure out his issues. Right now you are a convenient "whipping boy."

You seem to be getting over your shame and that is good. Mr. LD has to fix himself. You being the good person for your daughter and your own self will be your best way to move forward.

LD,

You really should read this on repeat until it sinks in. You did some shitty things. You took a lot of wrong steps, BUT you are actively owning that. You are building a better you.

You really have become a bit of a whipping post. Not only for N, but at times, for some of the SI community as well.

At some point, you have to learn to love yourself enough to put a stop to this. You have to recognize your own self worth, and own that the same way you've decided to own your shitty choices. It's the only way you continue to grow.

Look at your love for your daughter. If she was an adult in your shoes, what would you want for her to be doing now? If she was doing what you are doing, would you worry she wasn't respecting herself? You can't fully love anyone the right way until you learn to love yourself, and your daughter deserves a mom who can, through example, show her how to love herself.

LifeDestroyer posted 3/12/2020 07:27 AM

I get it LostGirl. If my daughter was in this spot, I would tell her that she is worth fighting for. I would tell her that if her spouse couldn't or didn't want to see that, even through the horrible horrible choices she made, then she should give her spouse what they wanted. I would also tell her to fight for her marriage with everything she has, but I would also hope that the person she was fighting for would also think that she is worth fighting for.

graciously offer him a fair deal to end the M

I never said that I wouldn't. I don't want to and will not screw him over. I already did that.

I do not see us being one of those couples who gets back together after divorce. When he cuts someone out of his life, that's it for him. He has said it and made it very clear that I will be cut out of his life as much as possible. He does not want to do anything together with our daughter, for instance school related stuff. She has a piece in our school district's art show. It starts today, and I had asked if we could all go together to see her piece, including my dad. He was not very happy with me tagging along. I told him to forget about it, and I will take her after spring break to see it again with me.

When it comes to our daughter, I do get very frustrated. I do not want her to think that her parents can't be in the same room. There are things that she wants us both there for, but he does not want that. Maybe that's something she and I will have to get used to, I don't know.

nekonamida posted 3/12/2020 07:45 AM

LD, I don't get the impression that you will ever be one of those divorced couples who can't be in the same room together. N's in a bad place and hurting tremendously right now but he will heal and be able to stand being a good co-parent with you one day. It doesn't sound like he hates you. It sounds like he's completely overwhelmed by the pain and can't R with you.

Alpargata posted 3/12/2020 07:45 AM

I would also tell her to fight for her marriage with everything she has, but I would also hope that the person she was fighting for would also think that she is worth fighting for.

What would you tell her if she was in her dad's shoes then?

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