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An update on N and I

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LifeDestroyer posted 7/17/2020 09:23 AM

Do you mean the things that he confessed to? If so, then I haven't.

LifeDestroyer posted 7/18/2020 22:12 PM

I have been wondering about one thing that happened several years ago, but I honestly don't feel right questioning him. The things that he did, while completely wrong, don't come close to what I did to him.

I know that I need to process what he did and how he acted in the past, my therapist keeps trying to bring it up, but I'm not ready to. I feel like shit if I try to get upset about anything. My first instinct is to defend, just like when she tries to bring up the negative ways my parents were. I do not like people talking bad about the ones I love, even if they did do messed up things.

It's weird, I had spoken about my uncle before to people and had no reaction to my words. Except now I do. When she mentions him or when N mentioned him, my immediate reaction was to cry. I feel completely helpless now when I think about it. If you remembered my first post, I said that I felt that what he did to me wasn't as bad as all of the other stories of children, but I don't feel that way anymore. What he did to me was just as bad, and I hate that it is part of me.

I'm sorry, my mind is all over the place right now.

[This message edited by LifeDestroyer at 10:18 PM, July 18th (Saturday)]

Thissucks5678 posted 7/18/2020 22:21 PM

If you want to grow and work on yourself, you should confront the things that have happened to you. Avoiding them wonít get you anywhere. Even if you donít bring it up to N because you are divorcing, at least talk about it in IC. Also, just because you love your parents, it doesnít mean acknowledging their mistakes that led you down this path is wrong. When things make you uncomfortable, itís best to confront them.

Best wishes LD.

BluerThanBlue posted 7/19/2020 21:09 PM

LD, I'm not going to get into the pointless exercise of whose infidelities were worse-- yours or N's-- because you've both done a considerable amount of lying and emotional abuse, both to each other and yourselves.

I suspect that you didn't bring up your own pain and suspicions because you were afraid of saying or doing anything that would imply that you were deflecting or blame-shifting. It's a shame that his confession couldn't have been a catalyst for engaging with each other more authentically and on (at least somewhat) more equal footing.

There's a saying I've seen on SI a lot that you can't reconcile until you know what you're reconciling with. I think that was just as true for you as it was for N.

But now that divorce is imminent, give yourself the latitude to express anger, pain, and even mistrust, even if it's only in the privacy of your therapist's office.

Why was living in a relationship with a perpetual imbalance of power not in your favor acceptable to you before and after your affair? How much of your tendency to avoid led you to engage in such reckless and destructive behavior?

I really wish that Justsomelady hadn't been so vitriolic in her posts about Neanderthal because her first post made a really important point: He's had one foot out the door at other points in your marriage prior to your infidelity. I actually think that him coming to terms with the fact that he needed to set you free for good--rather than keeping you running in a hamster wheel in pursuit of his forgiveness-- was probably the most loving and selfless thing he could've done for you.

LifeDestroyer posted 7/20/2020 20:58 PM

The other night N was pain shopping and started googling the OM. He found some information about one his residences. He apparently lived in the same apartment complex as us, possibly the building next to us. He also said it was during the same time we lived there. Rightfully so, he started questioning everything again, including the paternity of our daughter.

I told him that I had never met the OM before December 2018. That was the first time I ever spoke to him. I told him I bought the paternity test for him shortly after D-Day, but he never used it. He's going to now. I said that I will pay for a polygraph to prove that I am telling the truth. I've done enough shit, I'm not going to be accused of something that I didn't do.

He said the test won't mean anything and they're not full proof especially if he won't be there to verify the questions. He said he will not look at the results either. He told me not to waste my money.

I can pay $400 to have a test done tomorrow night to have the proof in case he ever actually does look at it, or I can not spend the money and just have him think that I've been lying to him for years.

HellFire posted 7/20/2020 21:21 PM

No. Just no. If he wants a polygraph,then he can pay for it,or,at least be there to verify the questions. He said he doesn't want one,and he wouldn't believe it anyway. He also said no to the paternity test.

You offered. Which, frankly,is more than you owe him at this point.

You are divorcing. That means you no longer should go out of your way to prove yourself to him. Or anyone else.

That $400 can be better spent on doing something nice for yourself.

You have twisted yourself inside out for this man. Which, as a WS, quite honestly, if you want R, a WS should do just that. The HUGE elephant in the room is..HE CHEATED TOO..AND HAS DONE NOTHING TO HEAL THAT DAMAGE, OR YOU. God dammit! You may not want to acknowledge that, but you need to. You are a BS, and you need to face it, so you can heal from it. You have owned what you did. You have twisted yourself inside out for a man who cheated on you as well. And he isnt dealing with it, he is walking away.

Girl, let him walk. He can think whatever he wants. He will anyway. You need to detach and stop caring about it what he thinks.

LifeDestroyer posted 7/20/2020 21:31 PM

He has told me multiple times that he will answer questions I have. We actually texted today about them. He does want to help me heal from his past actions and behavior. I can't help him, but he has said he will help me. Unfortunately, everything was shrouded in alcohol and having a bad memory.

I don't think I can stop caring about what he thinks of me. Even though we are divorcing and will never be, I still don't want him thinking that I had been lying to him for years.

Lostgirl410 posted 7/20/2020 22:54 PM


Please read Hellfire's post, reread it, enlarge it, print it, pin it on your closet door, and then reread it every day until the reality of it sinks in.

There's only one part of her post I don't necessarily agree with, and it's this:

And he isnt dealing with it, he is walking away.

I'm not convinced he is walking away. To me, it looks as though he is punishing you in an attempt to not have to own his own shit. There always seems to be a BUT...

I want you to leave, BUT...
You can come home, BUT...
You can rub my head, BUT...
I'm divorcing you, BUT...
I know I did bad things too, BUT...
I want you to be happy, BUT...

Again, I could be wrong. I am only one person, and I am stating what I draw from the posts I see. Unfortunately, what I see leads me to believe he (whether intentionally or not) still draws quite a bit of his own self worth from his ability to control you.

The pattern I see is that with each positive step you've taken to heal yourself, he has countered with an emotional blow guided towards setting you back. Each one of those blows just a little bit harsher than the last. He may not even realize he's doing it, and again I could be wrong. I am not inside his head, and I can't pretend to know what he's thinking. I'm just stating a pattern I think I've noticed. It's a pattern which is truly heartbreaking to me.

You have so much worth, you're finding it, and you're learning what it means to be real with yourself. You becoming healthy is the greatest gift you could ever give to your daughter, yourself, and the world around you. I do know there are a lot of people here who are very proud of you.

Your biggest hangup is N. Gently, you'll never be able to finish that healing if you don't stop gauging your ultimate worth on his ability to see who you are at your core.

The last couple times he has come here have been under the guise of protecting or standing up for you, and regardless of the intention, those times have all served in the end as a huge potential to set you back in your work on yourself. I see you teetering, and I'm proud of your resolve this far. Please don't give up.

This last blow, the paternity question...I just want you to step back a minute and really think. Outside looking in...(again I won't be offended if you disagree, and I'm only trying to give you a potential outside perspective)

N really hasn't been able to deal with his own WS issues. He's always had you as a security blanket. Maybe a tattered and torn blanket, but a blanket none the less. Now, he's made that ultimate step. He's told the world of SI he was divorcing, he has pride to uphold, and the finality of his "walk away" decision is starting to hit him in the face. At least subconsciously, he knows the paternity question will strike you back down to a place where you will be once again trying to prove yourself to him (now on the most visceral level possible for any mother), and not as focused on healing yourself in spite of his decision to leave.

The thing is LD, if you choose to heal yourself, and he doesn't heal himself, you're going to be okay in the end. Him, well, he will still be hurt and alone. Misery loves company. Hurt people, hurt people.

The most extravagant lashings out, the deepest anger, the most vile actions, and the most hateful reactions...most of them come from the deepest, darkest fear. Does it not then make sense to conclude that self-hatred stems from the fear of actually having to look in the mirror? Having to own who you really can be at your worst.

Maybe he's just not ready to face himself yet, and nothing scares him more than knowing you actually are facing your own demons. What did your tag line used to say? You're just another person, alone, falling in the darkness? Could that be who he fears he will be? Alone?

BluerThanBlue posted 7/21/2020 08:17 AM

If you are getting divorced, then you need to start the process of detangling your lives. At this point, the only conversations you should be having are logistical ones pertaining to your daughter. THATíS IT!

If N were posting about this in the Divorce forum, I would tell him that now that he has made the decision to leave you, he needs to make peace with the fact that he isnít going to know everything that happened and stop interrogating you because itís not conducive to his healing and moving on.

But since youíre the one still here asking for advice, hereís how I think you should approach it. Let him know that if heís interested in seriously working on the marriage and fully engaging reconciliation process, you will be happy to work on resolving the trust issues you BOTH have and work toward rebuilding.

However, if heís still committed to the path of divorce, then you should only be talking about issues pertaining to your child. He needs to work on his healing and you will focus on yours.

If heís unsure of either, then he needs to take whatever time he needs to make a decision and leave you out of it.

I know that youíre still hanging on to the idea that even if you donít get back together as husband and wife that you can be best friends sitting around a campfire singing Kumbaya, or Demi Moore and Bruce Willis having fun in quarantine with their kids in matching pajamas.

Thatís not dealing in reality, even when divorce doesnít involve infidelity, but especially considering the degree of damage you have both done to each other over the course of this marriage.

If he doesnít want to get off the emotional rollercoaster, then itís up to you to do, even if it goes against everything you want. If you donít want to do it for yourself, do it for your daughter.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:24 AM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

leavingorbit posted 7/21/2020 09:05 AM

LD, have you talked to your IC about setting boundaries with N? What does she say?

Enabling is not loving. You have the ability to change the tape. What do you want the rest of your life to look like?

Bigheart2018 posted 7/21/2020 12:20 PM

Dear LD,

As you well know, Iíve supported you and N in hoping that the two of you would finally reconcile. I have sent both you and N words of encouragement. Iíve read all the posts in both yours and N thread and would like to offer my opinion on the most recent posts to your thread.

On most occasions, I have agreed with Hellfire, but this time Iím going to push back on some of her comments and others. In my years of holding a gavel in my hand until last year, I learned to read between the line when people speak.

I believe N is fighting an internal battle within himself. He is grappling with the thought of him being the root cause of destroying the marriage, and the second destructive thought is of you engaged in a six-month affair.

As far as for you (LD), I believe the affair was an exit affair, and maybe N also thinks the same. I have previously explained to you the reasons for this assessment.

I wouldnít give up on the possibility of reconnecting to N. Remember, and it has only been one year since DD2, and rebuilding a marriage is a Pilgrimage. It is my opinion both you and N need time to heal, and if you love each other (I do believe both of you do), a route to reconciliation might present itself.


BluerThanBlue posted 7/21/2020 12:48 PM

BigHeart, N has said that he wants to divorce. He moved out, made a big announcement to SI, and so thatís the assumption that LD should be working from for the sake of her own sanity. That doesnít mean that she should stop loving him or stop caring about him, but she is no longer responsible for his healing and needs to be able to set boundaries with him so she can move on with her life and amicably coparent (or parallel parent) with him.

Letís not forget, too, that there is an innocent child in the middle of this toxic dynamic. Sheís had to experience her parents separating TWICE. N made the mistake of inviting LD back even though he was still on the fence, with seemingly little to no regard for how their daughter might be impacted by a second separation. LD and N both signed up for this rollercoaster ride but their daughter didnít.

If N wants advice on how to handle his healing process or ambivalence about divorce, he can start posting again. He took a lot of flack for his choice to divorce, but I actually thought that his choice was justified and a good one if necessary for his healing. But he doesnít get to fire LD from the job of being his wife while continuing to use her a punching bag in lieu of working out his issues with an IC.

If anyone wants to give LD advice, it needs to be in her interests, not based on what N might or not be thinking this day of the week.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:57 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

sisoon posted 7/21/2020 13:25 PM

I'm with BluerThanBlue. I am writing mainly to expand on a point she raised.

You are both a WS & a BS. You need to heal both ways.

Beating yourself up isn't taking responsibility; it's just beating yourself up.

Taking responsibility for betraying N is essential to your changing from bertayer to good partner, but so is acknowledging and healing from the anger, grief, fear, shame, etc., that come with being betrayed and with N's desire for a D that you don't want.

Frankly, as a BS whose, WS has chosen D, doing a 180 is not inappropriate. Show N what being D'ed is going to be like - keep your communications to finances and child care.

Gently, the best thing to do for yourself is to detach. Detach from N. Part of healing as a WS is to act in your own bet interests. You've done a terrible thing, but you're still a human being with legitimate wants and need, and your only way out of a WS mindset is to act authentically in your own best interests and those of your child's.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:26 PM, July 21st (Tuesday)]

gmc94 posted 7/21/2020 13:33 PM

Beating yourself up isn't taking responsibility it's just beating yourself up.
I want to embroider this and frame it on my wall.

Bigheart2018 posted 7/21/2020 14:07 PM

Dear BluerThanBlue and Sisoon (Guide),

My post was misinterpreted, and I will not threadjack. If either of you would to have an intense, robust conversation regarding my post, please PM me.


Thissucks5678 posted 7/21/2020 15:44 PM

LD, gently, if you are divorcing, I do not support you getting a polygraph at this time. I as a happily reconciled BS still when Iím in a rough mood doubt the results of my WHís.

If he doubts the paternity of your child, he is more than able to fund a paternity test on his dime.

At this stage,I know you want to co-parent peacefully and I think that is admirable. However, I believe you should dig deep and try and figure out why you are so hesitant to work on your own feelings of hurt. Why Nís opinions matter to you so much, if you know they are untrue - remember he has asked for divorce with no chance at reconciliation. Why do you not want to address your parents flaws?

All of these things may lead you to a healthier path forward with you and your daughter.

My ex-husband and I were MHs. We were young and toxic and it was a tumultuous time when we separated. We get a long fine now, although I donít think either of has a use for the other. N reminds me a bit of my ex and you remind me a bit of my old self. Maybe thatís why I keep finding myself drawn to your thread. Have you read any books on codependency?

LifeDestroyer posted 7/21/2020 17:29 PM

I don't think he has done anything to intentionally hurt me or hold me back. In fact, I know he has wanted to do the exact opposite. He has said so many times that he does not want to hurt me, he does not want me to suffer, he wants me to succeed without him.

We have both lost our identity through this. He has to finally admit to things he did while drinking. Things he just shrugged off because he was drunk. I did the same thing. I shrugged off a lot of things he did because he was drunk. I am absolutely guilty of enabling his drinking. I knew he had a problem. I had brought it up several times after our daughter was born, but yet I kept buying alcohol for him.

However, if heís still committed to the path of divorce, then you should only be talking about issues pertaining to your child. He needs to work on his healing and you will focus on yours.

But wouldn't answering each other's questions help with our own healing? We can ask our IC the questions, I'm guessing he will go back soon, but they won't have the real answers. If I have a question about something he did, I would rather get the answer from him, not some hypothetical answer from my IC.

I'm not holding onto hope that we will be best friends. Friendly coparents who can actually talk to each other and be around one another, yes I would love that. I would love for our daughter to be able to do something with both of her parents one day.

I am not doing the polygraph. I texted the tester to say that I wasn't going to take one right now. N will do the paternity test on his own.

LifeDestroyer posted 7/21/2020 21:37 PM

Thursday afternoon I will be signing the divorce papers. Thankfully, I will have a therapy session later on that day. Thursday also would have been my parents 37th wedding anniversary.

NeverTwice posted 7/21/2020 22:09 PM

LD - I am so sorry. My heart is breaking for you.

Sending you hugs and strength.

sisoon posted 7/22/2020 13:58 PM


I'm not sure I understand your last post.

I agree with your post of 12:20 on 7/21. I don't see conflict between that post and mine of 1:25. I think they address different points.

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