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An update on N and I

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Lostgirl410 posted 6/18/2020 19:27 PM

Yeah. I get that. Feeling the weight of the world on your shoulders, knowing your choices created that weight, and that you can't control the outcome is a lot to process.

It's okay to feel that pain. It's also okay to curl up in a ball and cry. Actually, curling up in that ball and crying might be a good step for you. It's a step toward acceptance, it's a step toward healing, toward self-care, and a huge step toward letting go of the outcome. Allow yourself to feel all the ugly feelings, allow yourself to be vulnerable, to grieve...

Then, once you've released some of that pain, remember to never stop working on yourself. You have so much more worth than I feel you allow yourself to believe. You are worthy of happiness. Your worth is not defined by your ability to fix others. You really have grown a lot since you came here.

BraveSirRobin posted 6/18/2020 19:39 PM


ShutterHappy posted 6/18/2020 21:59 PM

I think your STBXH was stuck in limbo.

You said it yourself in your first post of this thread.

If you care about him, take comfort that heís doing what he needs to do to heal.

Justsomelady posted 6/18/2020 22:29 PM

Please prioritize your child now in terms of therapy and all, I just canít imagine her pain after being yanked around by you both as you fumbled around.

nekonamida posted 6/19/2020 07:20 AM

LD, thinking of you both and wishing you the best. You will get through this and the lessons you have learned will carry you through.

LifeDestroyer posted 6/21/2020 10:59 AM

Lostgirl, I'm definitely feeling all of the ugly feelings knowing that I created all of this. I stare at him, to see every part of him before I won't be able to. He gets his keys this Friday and will probably move out on Saturday.

JSL, do you really think we wanted to harm our daughter? I thought when I came back into this house, it would work. I thought we would be able to become an us again. I thought I would be able to make him happy again. I didn't think he would be moving out two months after I moved back in. We told our daughter that although I was moving back in, that didn't mean that we would all be living together forever. I sat her down and explained to her that mommy and daddy were going to try, but that there was a chance that one of us would be moving out again. I truly thought that we could do this. Actually, I still do, but that's not what's happening.

Lifeitself posted 6/21/2020 14:37 PM

Can you explain a bit more please, what happened in the last 2 months? He wasnít interacting with you and not talking to anyone. Was it the case for the last 2 months?

Justsomelady posted 6/22/2020 11:08 AM

No, I donít think you wanted to harm her. I think you were both foolish to do this to her - and I get you are blinded by your hope, and it is a tragic thing - but to do this without being more certain, is the issue I donít understand. This could be seen coming, it isnít like the signs from him were all that glowing. He said come home, letís rug sweep, Iím exhausted, he let you scratch his head... I donít see that showing a lot of positive signs, just a lot of hesitation. I am surprised by both of your choices here, it was a selfish choice on both of you to get her hopes up.

This is crisis level bad for your daughter and she needs therapy. This isnít just a divorce, which is an ACE even when it needs to happen, but now the way you two have done it she is experiencing it twice, compounded by HER taste of hope by the moving in. the decisionto move in was made when R was not even realistic, so she has to grieve the breakup twice.

My heart does go out to you too and I wish you healing. I think youíve done a lot of good things on your journey. Iím also not calling you a bad mom. This was just a very short sighted decision not based on reality or on your childís best interest.

I think she needs to be the priority now

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 11:56 AM, June 22nd (Monday)]

LifeAfter posted 6/23/2020 08:07 AM

LifeDestroyer, I scrolled through half of your posts, pretty long one....

I am a BS, and although I am not your husband, I sort of can understand his conflicting desires, which is pretty normal.

For a lack of better words...I am concerned about the seemingly lack of "structure" in your posts...did both of you read through books? Self educate on how does affair typically happen? What is a typical timeline of healing for a BS? Any thing, or aspect of the marriage which both of you can work on before finally calling the marriage quits? Did you understand that brought you there i.e. to commit the affair? Did you truly show remorse to your BH? Remorse is different from shame. Marriage counselor and therapist is not a silver bullet to your failing marriage...you have to understand that to make a marriage work, has to be BOTH of you. You as a WS need to pull in 150% to make things work...and not wait for other people to do the job.

I am particularity concerned that you seemed to bring up the words shame quite a number of times; seems like you are focusing on yourself on how you feel. You also brought up "divorce" quite a number of times, and as a BS, I will tell you that it hurts even more.

Personal note; it is only after 3 gruesome years, my BH FINALLY admitted that he had, under the pretext of being "considerate", suggested "divorce" so that "I will be happier" without him.

Actually, it was all bullsh*t, he simply do not wanting to face the hurt and destruction he brought on this marriage, and divorce was his only ticket out of hell... In short, it was about him and never about me.

[This message edited by LifeAfter at 8:12 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

LifeAfter posted 6/23/2020 08:17 AM

Justsomelady This is crisis level bad for your daughter and she needs therapy. This isnít just a divorce, which is an ACE even when it needs to happen, but now the way you two have done it she is experiencing it twice, compounded by HER taste of hope by the moving in. the decisionto move in was made when R was not even realistic, so she has to grieve the breakup twice.

This I totally agree! If you have been doing your due diligence and finding up on the long term and sometimes permanent damaging effects of what you are doing to her right now, giving her false hopes and all...and when she finally realize everything is a naught, she might end up hating and blaming both of you this failed marriage.

Justsomelady posted 6/23/2020 08:34 AM

To recap their story from my perspective - as I see there are some who may not have read all the story - LD is remorseful and has tried to make amends and work on herself, but she was too regretful and less remorseful at the beginning, and screwed herself by TTing a bunch before finally coming clean/having it pulled out of her prior to (and following) a polygraph.

She has lot of old trauma and married an emotionally abusive man who in my opinion emotionally and sexually abused her years before her own infidelity. N has his own heaps of childhood trauma. He also cheated on her so they are mad hatters. Before they were parents, N coerced LD into performing oral sex on another man in the context of swinging (which she technically consented to but it was after a lot of denigration from him and he said she wasnít attractive to him and pressured her a lot).

Then he also cheated at varying degrees (but including PIV sex) both in and outside the context of swinging. Both he and LD remained friends with his AP. His infidelity included shorter term things not as much a full on affair las Life Destroyerís. However his compound abuse of her over years and his lack of regard for her full and enthusiastic consent make his abuse much worse than hers (but both were abusive in different ways) in my opinion. She is not without sin obviously but I see her actions more as a response to his and to all the trauma she couldnít handle in a healthy way.

After this the two engaged in epic rug sweeping and he embraced alcoholism. She got pregnant. He got help for alcoholism but there were still problems. They both love their kid and tried but were to fucked up to make it last. They needed therapy a decade ago. then after she had a sort of identity crisis leaving SAHM life and reentering workforce she went poking around for affirmation and wound up choosing the catastrophe of an affair.

In that vein, she has said she didnít think N would care if she had an affair - and I can kind of see that in how he wanted her to suck other guys off...and in how he treated her. Even her own husband has said here on SI that he saw on her face she looked relieved when he punched out her AP, as it confirmed he did love her (of course his version of love is fucked up). She truly doubted whether he loved her - and I canít blame her for wondering given his weird way of showing it. Not at all a justification of her actions but it adds complexity - and honestly a ton of mitigating factors in analyzing her actions - to their story and I can kind of see how it makes sense in the context of trauma and messed up thinking.

I do not think it is a marriage that should be saved as he is still terrible to her and he always was - but now he gets to wear the white hat as the BS and has more reasons to crap on Life Destroyer. More people here like Neanderthal than LD because he got his story out first on SI and waited a long time to disclose he was actually a mad hatter. Then when people justifiably called him out he disappeared from SI as he canít handle it. I think he may be a narc and LD is his victim, who has also done him wrong too but in the context of long term abuse that she has had heaped on her by him for years.

THey are both wayward and need tons of therapy. They are royally screwing up their kid. The selfishness he had to tell her to come home, and her foolishness sto accept, when it was clear their was no true R commitment - is just tragic to me. Their actions tell me that they cared more about their drama than they do their child. And it smacks of more than a little sadistic impulses on Neanderthalís part to put a line out to her and then snatch it back. Of course LD was going to jump. If only sheíd had the presence of mind to really see how nonenthusiastic he was and what it would mean for her kid if it failed. I hope that changes now. Focus on kid first, and see too, but her oxygen mask never really got put on ...so letís do that pronto.

I think they both have a lot of potential to clean up their acts and become better people, especially LD. she has already shown a TON of growth. I have faith in them as individuals and as parents but not as a couple.

I do think you are a loving mom and can become a good mom again. I think youíre becoming a stronger person every day despite your heartbreak. You just need to keep working on yourself and on her. Have compassion for N but honestly, let him cut himself loose. He is a toxic person.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 9:42 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

hikingout posted 6/23/2020 08:57 AM

I am so sorry, LD. I have watched you become stronger at times during this journey...you have it in you to keep going and keep improving. You can be strong for your daughter and I hope N will cooperate with becoming good coparenting together. What lies ahead of us can be as good or better, I have no reason to believe you canít go on and thrive and get the life you dream of. You just have to believe it too. Take good care of yourself, make sure you go back to basics. We are here for you as you embark this part of your journey. Much love to you and yours.

gmc94 posted 6/23/2020 09:42 AM

LD - I'm sorry this is the status, and I believe you are on a path to make some healthy changes and live a life of joy. You and N and your DD will grieve and work hard and get through it.

And, apologize for t/j..

a ton of mitigating factors in analyzing her actions

Definition of "mitigate": to cause to become less harsh or hostile : MOLLIFY.....to make less severe or painful : ALLEVIATE......to make something less harmful, unpleasant, or bad....to make something less severe or less unpleasant....

History and Etymology: Middle English, from Latin mitigatus, past participle of mitigare to soften, from mitis soft + -igare (akin to Latin agere to drive) akin to Old Irish moŪth soft ó more at AGENT

JSL - IMO there is no such thing as a "mitigating factor" for a WS deciding to engage in having an A, in living a lie, etc. No matter what N's past behavior, it does not "mitigate" LD's (or any WS) choices in the A or to TT.

That language opens the floodgates for all forms of BS blaming, minimizing, defensiveness, etc. As hard as this shit is on both sides of the fence, I have great respect for LD not following the "tit for tat" (or the "mitigating" ) path. Since the poly, LD has consistently held herself solely responsible for her choices. That ain't easy - esp when one's world is crumbling and she is heartbroken for herself & BS, and scared to death about the fallout to her young child.

I am not condoning the actions/choices of N or any other BS. We are each responsible for our own choices and consequence(s), just as every WS.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 9:43 AM, June 23rd, 2020 (Tuesday)]

Justsomelady posted 6/23/2020 09:43 AM

Really, I think it does gmc (Mitigate), working in the legal field that is how I see it. Agree to disagree. Neanderthal to me is a rapist and a villain. LD is a victim who became an abuser too but she is NOTHING compared to his awfulness

Also - how can he act like a rapist and abuser not have some blame thrown at him. I donít agree with pretending BSs donít have some culpability in some situations. I think too many Waywards Blameshift and most betrayers do NOT deserve it. But it seems out of touch with reality to pretend they should all not be held accountable. N is a perfect example of that

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 9:53 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

LifeDestroyer posted 6/23/2020 09:49 AM

I was going to write an adult response to JSL, but now I'm going to tell you to stay the fuck off my threads and stop messaging me. Who the fuck do you think you are to call my husband a rapist and villain? You are the one with serious issues. You have plenty of your own shit that you still need to work on and be honest with your husband. Nothing, NOTHING my husband ever did calls for him to be called anything close to a rapist.

Stay the fuck off my threads and out of my story.

gmc94 posted 6/23/2020 09:53 AM

JSL - not gonna bother trying to convince you

[This message edited by gmc94 at 10:22 AM, June 23rd, 2020 (Tuesday)]

MIgander posted 6/23/2020 10:00 AM

LD, that really hit a nerve.

From your story, it sounds like he coerced you into sex with other men. That is abuse!

How are you defending your abuser? Is it that in your head you have to hold him up as a decent man so you can justify your dependency on him?

IE: is it easier to keep painting him as a victim so you don't have to own up to the fact that you are still actively emotionally enmeshed with your abuser?

Does that mean that you think you deserved the abuse? Did you secretly think that if you kept taking his abuse that you could change him into a decent man, thus making all your suffering worth while?

Why are you playing knight in shining armor to him and coming to his defense?

Maybe he's not a rapist. He's DEFINITELY an abuser. Him not wanting to take ownership of that and playing "poor me" because you finally BROKE after years of abuse and sought out an affair is him excusing himself for his disgusting treatment of you.

Again, what do you have to gain from defending your abuser?

What does your daughter have to gain from watching you continue to enmesh in this nasty negative relationship? What habits is she learning? That it's ok for men to treat their women like objects, to ignore them and stonewall them? To manipulate them back into a relationship that they have NO commitment to? That it's ok for a man to pin all his own faults and failings on the faults and failings of another?

From reading your posts, yeah, you've got your own work to do and it sounds like you're really doing it. Improvements are being made and you are getting stronger!

What is N doing to get stronger himself?

What are you going to do moving forward to make sure your daughter doesn't pattern her future relationships and life off of yours????

landclark posted 6/23/2020 10:26 AM

LD, that really hit a nerve.

I am so tired of people throwing this around. People CAN and DO get annoyed simply because somebody is annoying and way off base. A reaction of annoyance doesn't mean somebody is on to something big. Give me a break.

LD, I am so sorry this didn't work out for you guys. It's sad for all of you. I think you've done a tremendous amount of work, and I know you'll take that with you. With love and support, your daughter will be ok in the end. Best of luck to you.

Bigheart2018 posted 6/23/2020 12:00 PM

I'm so glad you replied to JGL with the verger in defending your Husband. She is very toxic and needs to find a counselor of her own.

LD, I haven't yet given up on your marriage. Take one day at a time.


ff4152 posted 6/23/2020 13:41 PM

Iím always amazed at the WS who sit on high and pass judgement on other WS. New flash, we are all abusers of our partners. Folks, that may have been who LD H used to be but I donít think thatís an accurate description NOW. They both recognize they have issues and are working to correct them.

LD, Iím sorry that it has come to this but please gkeep
moving forward.

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