SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I never post anymore but I don't have other people who understand and everyone around me is sick of me I am sure.

I've been struggling a lot lately with what is "enough" for both BS and WS. Why does either party want to stay in a marriage where they are not completely fulfilled. I've found myself needy for intimacy and an emotional connection and that scares me.

Today I went all out for VDay and when I got home from dropping the kids off I saw all the gifts right where I left them, unopened. This day is weird for me because its also the week 3 years ago when the APS wife initially found out about me and she told him he ruined her birthday (this week) and valentines day forever. I have guilt about it for her and I feel sad I contributed to that. I took away something from her forever but I'm hopeful it isn't like that at this point, I don't know.

I'm struggling. And I know this post is wonky for those that don't know my story and my history. I just needed to get it out.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 9:44 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

Well, I'm not sick of you.

I'm sure any wayward has feelings of "blah" at times. I think it's good in a way. If all you ever felt was happy happy happy, I'd wonder if you had genuine remorse [from time to time when reflecting on things].

All I can say is to hang tough. Do your best to be positive, love those around you and expect nothing in return. V-Day is a hard time for many people. This too shall pass.

I’m so sorry you’re struggling.

I've been struggling a lot lately with what is "enough" for both BS and WS. Why does either party want to stay in a marriage where they are not completely fulfilled. I've found myself needy for intimacy and an emotional connect and that scares me.

What do you mean by “enough?” Are you thinking in terms of doing or is it having or when you’ve had enough?

I know this will sound weird, but in some way it’s good that your need for intimacy scares you. You’re seeing things and are in tune with yourself. We all want and need closeness. Addressing the need in a healthy way is the difference between us as WW’s and who we are trying to be now.

This is the place to let it all out. We get you.

(((pinkpggy)))

What do you mean by “enough?” Are you thinking in terms of doing or is it having or when you’ve had enough?

I just mean that myself and my husband are both not happy. We have had many talks on the status of things and what needs to be done. But there is no movement in either direction of fixing it or divorcing. Its limbo. Its just one foot in front of the other every day. I don't have joy or love. I don't think he does either. I read so many posts on her of people just staying in these marriages for the sake of...what? Then I feel guilty for wanting more. For wanting to be happy. I can't expect someone to work on a marriage I broke, and I can't ask them to be happy and love me. And if I leave, then I am leaving someone I had a hand in breaking. How is that fair?

Just putting this thought out there, if you both are so unhappy and neither is willing to take the next step...how much have you really healed or learned? Are you also both being realistic about "enough"? Are you first off, "enough" for yourselves? The gifts you mention, who are they for? If for him, why would you want him to open them without you?

I just mean that myself and my husband are both not happy. We have had many talks on the status of things and what needs to be done. But there is no movement in either direction of fixing it or divorcing. Its limbo. Its just one foot in front of the other every day. I don't have joy or love. I don't think he does either. I read so many posts on her of people just staying in these marriages for the sake of...what? Then I feel guilty for wanting more. For wanting to be happy. I can't expect someone to work on a marriage I broke, and I can't ask them to be happy and love me. And if I leave, then I am leaving someone I had a hand in breaking. How is that fair?

There are two questions that need to be addressed.

The first is what do you really want and are you willing to do what it takes to get there.

The second is the same question for your H. What does he really want and is he willing to do whatever it takes to get there.

If neither one of you is willing/able to do what it takes then all you can do is live perpetually in limbo or just move on. I do get it, you broke him down and walking away is like a kick in the head on the way out the door, but it may be best for him allowing him a chance at a new life.

Take the bull by the horns, confront the issues and make decisions.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 11:10 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

I know I keep going around and around. I am asking what more can I do and I know there is nothing more I can do. I have asked a million times and I can't fix things. I have worked on myself. I am starting with a new therapist next week. I am healthy and happy with MYSELF (I am in the best place physically, mentally, professionally). 100%.

I am not healthy and happy in my marriage.

I know I keep going around and around. I am asking what more can I do and I know there is nothing more I can do. I have asked a million times and I can't fix things. I have worked on myself. I am starting with a new therapist next week. I am healthy and happy with MYSELF (I am in the best place physically, mentally, professionally). 100%.

I am not healthy and happy in my marriage.

I don't how to say this like I want, but let me say it wrongly.... And I may be misreading the situation, so if I am I do apologize.

You've knocked your husband down and it seems as if he just can't get up. Try as he might, the blow may have been too much. The old him just isn't coming back.

You primarily caused this and just can't make it right. I'm guessing he doesn't want you to go or stay. If this is pretty much so, I might suggest going. What I mean is that staying hasn't snapped him out of it, so maybe leaving will. Or maybe it will confirm in him the a separation is really best for him.

Try something new.

BS here.

My first thought was same as one of Zug's. Perhaps he didn't open them bc he wanted to open with you? And it wasn't a slight?

Second, I can see how hard the situation is. As a BS, I've had days where I wish my WH would leave so that *I* am not the one "breaking up" the marriage (even though he was the one who did it). But I also think if he did it would just "prove" that he was always a liar. (Damned if you do, damned if you don't!)

I know you've posted before about other issues in the marriage that have nothing to do with infidelity. Is your H wanting a different marriage? Or just okay with limbo? If you have talked, was there ideas on how to move forward? I think you might have to just be okay with being the bad guy in this situation. Yes, you broke him. But he is going to have to figure out how to put himself back together. Maybe he can't do that with you. He just can't stand the idea of putting that into motion since he had no choice in how it got to this point. Perhaps the nicest thing you could do is to go...so that you can both have a chance at being happy.

BH here.

Respectfully...given all you have done to fix yourself and become as safe a partner as you can be fore him: like TX1995 says, your affair may have simply just killed the marriage. It sucks but that may be the reality, and staying in limbo hell with both of you being miserable isn't good either. You may have to be the bad guy again and file for divorce. You can be the adult in the room and also take responsibility for being the person who dropped the bomb on it.

pinkpggy,

I am not sick of you and I am a BS!

You say you are not healthy or happy in your marriage. Do you and your husband still love each other? I mean real, deep down can't imagine your life without each other love?????

Infidelity is hard enough to overcome in itself and I have come to the conclusion that if my husband and I didn't have that special deep and consuming love for each other there was no way we would make it.

I am so sorry you are struggling right now. I think we sometimes forget that it's hard for a WW too.

There is no shame in divorce if you both know in your hearts its the best for both of you.

[This message edited by Evertrying at 11:49 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

Honestly, I don’t understand a lot of the marriages I read about on SI. To me, life is too short for a blah marriage for either party. If the WS has truly given it their all and the BS isn’t committing to R and working towards a better marriage, what’s the point? Now obviously, I’m not saying that immediately after dday, a BS should be all in by any means - but after a couple of years, it’s time to start figuring things out.

I don’t know, Pink. I’m not in your life. I don’t see the day to day interactions. But you’ve been here for a long time, if you’re still unhappy, why continue to punish yourself? Maybe you and your BS should just sit down and have a frank conversation - like should’ve been done before the affair. Talk about exactly what you are feeling, the blahness, what you want from a husband, what he wants from a wife, find out if either of you are capable of being those things for each other and decide together whether it’s worth moving forward or if it’s time to put this marriage out of it’s misery. Give it a timeline for improvement and if things still don’t change, you’ll know it’s time to divorce.

It seems to me, a lot of waywards were conflict avoidant and that ended up getting them in this crap situation. I don’t know if that’s you or not, but I think you just need to confront the elephant in the room. Maybe your BS can’t get over the affair. That’s ok. Some people can’t. It may be better for him in the long run to move on.

I wish the best for you. I’m sorry about your Valentine’s Day.

So we went on a trip in Jan and it was a nightmare, like I drove off without him and left him on a curb. So yes, we have had ALL the talks. We don't get along well or spend much time together. He won't go to counseling and feels like I am staying because its easy and safe. I say I stay because I am hopeful we can make it through. Its 3-5 years and we are closing in on year 3 and into year 4. Am I happy? No. Do I feel love and a connection? No. But either does he I am sure. Im just tired of going in circles.

Im just tired of going in circles.

Seems like it's time to consider parting ways.

Am I happy? No. Do I feel love and a connection? No. But either does he I am sure. Im just tired of going in circles.

Maybe this is your answer.

To me, it appears that you honestly gave it your all and really tried to make it work. Maybe the reality is, the marriage was over before the A ever started.

There is nothing worse than staying in an unfulfilling, unloving relationship that both of you will eventually regret. I would hate to look back when you are older and realize what a waste it all was.

[This message edited by Evertrying at 2:27 PM, February 14th (Friday)]

If for him, why would you want him to open them without you?

Zugzwang, I don't get why you're asking this. If it's a gift, with no strings attached, no expectations, just given out of love/kindness/consideration, what does it matter if he opens them without her? If anything, I would think expecting him to open them in front of her would be more selfish or with some sort of expectation of a certain reaction, or getting something (a hug, kiss, praise, etc.) in return, no?

pinkpggy, BS here, not sick of your posts. IIRC, you either insinuated or outright stated your BH is an alcoholic, right? Has he gotten any help for that, like AA? Or is he still currently drinking?

[This message edited by ibonnie at 3:15 PM, February 14th (Friday)]

The gift was a bag I left on the counter with his coffee and stuff I make for him each morning. Sometimes I don't see him in the morning so I leave love notes etc. There was no expectations of him opening anything with me there.

Yes he almost completely stopped drinking. I dont know the reason why other than he got news about a family member having serious health issues due to alcohol. While I'm thrilled about it I don't think it's a solution to our problems. It's only been about 6 weeks. I'm happy if he is happy but I didn't ask him to stop drinking to help our marriage.

You say you are not healthy or happy in your marriage

Going back to this again. If you are staying in a marriage where you are not healthy or happy, how much have your really changed? I would think if you had reached a good level of healthy and changed you would choose to do what is best for you both and respectful at the same time...where many posters state what seems like an obvious decision a healthy person would make. Instead, you seem to be making decisions based on guilt. If you still have that amount of guilt that would keep you in a dead marriage, then how much healing and changing have you done? A healthy level of self love and respect would take you out of situations where you are clearly unhealthy and unhappy. IDK, does that make much sense.

IBONNIE

I don't get why you're asking this.

That's okay. I don't get why you don't get why someone would want to be there when a gift is opened by someone. Just because a person wants to share that intimacy or see the joy on another's face doesn't mean it is selfish or doing it for purely selfish reasons. If you have kids would you be okay with them opening their gifts Christmas morning without you? Or would you want to be there and spend that joyful time together?

Either way, the easy way forward. Ask him. Communication and being vulnerable. Express your hurt and confusion and ask him about the gift. Often times we make up in our own minds what something means...I mean look at how many WS come here expressing and rewriting marriage history thinking their BS don't love them and wouldn't be hurt by cheating.

Zug- you are making a ton of assumptions based on very little info.

If I felt I was in a safe place to be vulnerable and share then I would. My husband is not a safe place for that.

As for the guilt. Yes of course I do have guilt. That doesn't mean I haven't healed or that I don't want to hurt someone. I fully realize it's unhealthy to keep things how they are. I've tried to talk and it goes no where.

And the gift? I knew he would have no emotions regarding it. I just wanted to make sure he knew I thought of him. I wasn't expecting a reaction or reciprocation or to give him joy. It was just a few things I hoped would show him I thought of him. There is rarely any show of affection or happiness or appreciation so I knew there was no point in making a production about it.

So we went on a trip in Jan and it was a nightmare, like I drove off without him and left him on a curb.

Can you please clarify on this, because I'm confused. Are you saying that it was "as if" you drive off without him, or that you "did" drive off without him?