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josiep posted 11/2/2019 12:33 PM

AlAnon. AlAnon. AlAnon. AlAnon.

You mentioned his drinking so it's my humble but purely personal opinion that he is abusing alcohol. Whether he's an alcoholic or not is not for me to say. But in either case, ALAnon could be a huge support for you, a way to sort out your feelings and calm your soul to find some serenity so that you can then find your way forward, whatever path that might be.

Inperson meetings are best but there's a ton of stuff online, even meetings. Podcasts. YouTube videos. Reading material. Etc.

I really, really think it would be a godsend for you and encourage you with all my heart to try it out. You needn't disclose anything about yourself or even about him - meetings are ALL about finding serenity.

pinkpggy posted 11/2/2019 12:53 PM

Chaos- it's more of him being alone and having no one. A divorce would not destroy my family. I wouldn't let that happen. It would be impossible for him to have 50% custody. I'm the primary care giver and that would continue.

If we divorce he's alone with no one. I think that's more of his issue.

Cheatstroke was spot on. He has removed everyone from his life that ever wronged him. I'm the only person he has left. It would be a very sad existence.

LifeDestroyer posted 11/2/2019 13:20 PM

My dad was/is an alcoholic. My mom and I always found his hidden stash and would dump them. When I was about 17 we discovered that he was always drunk from the time he woke at 4am to when he went to bed at 9pm. He was drinking before he ever went to work. He was drinking the whole time he drove us around. I would have to walk him to bed after he passed out drunk on his chair. I had to break up many physical fights between my parents. Even had to grab a large knife out of my mom's hands and pull my dad's hands off her neck. Fun times at my childhood home. When I was 18 I had enough. I told my dad that I didn't care if continued to drink and died. He would not be walking me down the aisle or see my future kids.

My husband and I were always drinking. I definitely enabled him. When I got pregnant, I obviously couldn't drink and was able to stop. I didn't really drink after she was born either. I didn't have the need to. He kept on drinking and a lot. O told him a few times that I didn't want our daughter to grow up with a drink dad like I did. Eventually something kicked in and he quit.

Both quit after pretty much hitting their own rock bottom after someone they loved basically was done. If you leave him, through divorce or separation, maybe that will work. Maybe that will be his rock bottom. Maybe he will realize that he does in fact have a problem and needs to quit. Maybe you will realize that you and your kids are better off without all being in the same home. He needs to realize that he has a problem and want to quit. Can you picture yourself living with an alcoholic for the rest of your life? More importantly, do you want your children to live with an alcoholic father for however many more years until they move out? If not, then you have your answer on what to do next.

HellFire posted 11/2/2019 13:22 PM

Many of your posts,over the years, have shown a lack of empathy,anger, and defensiveness towards your husband.

It's very difficult to heal with an unempathetic,angry,defensive WS.

That,however, doesn't excuse his drinking, and refusal to see it as a problem.

If he refuses to get help for his drinking, and you can't deal with that,and you can no longer live in the shadow of your long term affair,and the damage it has done to him, then,yes, divorce is the answer. It will get you out of that environment. Unfortunately, your kids will still have to deal with it,because he will still be their father, and he will get visitation.

But, regardless, if you are done, that's ok.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:23 PM, November 2nd (Saturday)]

pinkpggy posted 11/2/2019 13:35 PM

Hellfire- I disagree about my over all posts. But I do not disagree about anger towards drinking and over all lack of support. That's where my anger comes from. Having to bail him out of jail, having holidays ruined, sleeping behind locked doors out of fear, turning down social events out of embarrassment. Yes, I am angry.

I have empathy regarding my affair and he would say I'm a model wayward. He knows how I feel about the drinking and my repeated requests for it to end. Yet it continues. To me it's a slap on the face when a hear a bottle being opened.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 1:35 PM, November 2nd (Saturday)]

Fenderguy posted 11/2/2019 13:54 PM

I am so sorry. Itís time for you to move forward. Yes, you cheated, and yes that is very bad. But you do NOT deserve to be miserable for the rest of your life because of it, especially when you have put in so much effort to rebuild and reconcile. He doesnít want to rebuild your M. He likes that he has this over you, because now he can drink as much as he wants, resent you as much as he wants, and be an asshole all he wants. And he can always just blame your A, even though you have stated that your M and his drinking was bad enough that you wanted to leave before the A.

File for D, or separate. Itís his turn to kiss your ass if he wants to save this M. You and your kids deserve better.

And no people, Iím not usually a White Knight for WWs. I have been following Pinkís story for a long time now, and I Truly believe she has done all she can. She has been struggling with this for a long time, and cannot live this way the rest of her life. My hope is that she can find somebody else that actually wants to work towards having a good relationship.

pinkpggy posted 11/2/2019 17:48 PM

Thanks everyone. I know what I have to do and what I need to do.

He hasn't spoken to me all day and is already half way through a jumbo wine bottle. Kids and I are hiding in the master bedroom. My stomach is in knots of what will transpire later.

I found an AlAnon meeting that meets near me on Friday at lunch time. I'm absolutely terrified at what the future holds but I can't go on like this.

Poppy704 posted 11/2/2019 18:32 PM

Pink- You followed my story like Iíve followed yours. From one mom who stayed for the kids to another, you can not fix the harm you did by cheating by allowing yourself and your children to be harmed by staying. Your kids are learning that this is acceptable. Drinking and screaming and hiding in a bedroom. And anyone who says that leaving is destroying your kids can fuck right off. I cannot tell you how much lightness my daughter has gained from being removed from a toxic environment. All the tension has left her, she does not fret and wring her hands.

Your kids deserve a healthy peaceful environment with healthy functioning parents. If thatís not possible there, then find somewhere it is possible.

HellFire posted 11/2/2019 19:49 PM

I didn't say she e would be destroying her kids if she left.

I said if she needs to leave, then leave. But while she is removing herself from this environment, her kids will have visitation with him. That's a fact. Supervised visitation is very difficult to get, unless he has physically abused them,and there is proof of that.

It sucks all the way around. Many BS have stayed with their WS because they didn't want their kids to be left with their parent,without the protection of the BS. Maybe the WS is abusive. Maybe their choice of AP was crazy, on drugs,or some other kind of deviant, so the BS stays to make sure their kids are protected from that.

I know it sounds like I'm advocating that she stay. I'm not. I AM pointing out the very real truth that while she gets to remove herself, the kids won't be able to do that. And she needs to consider that before she decides to leave.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:50 PM, November 2nd (Saturday)]

TimSC posted 11/3/2019 09:44 AM

My Dad was an alcoholic. He kept it hidden most of the time and my Mom enabled him.

Until one day he took my nephew to a college football game and he got so drunk he could not find his car after the game.

My brother (nephew's father) and I tried to talk to him but my Mom kept making excuses for him.

He died in 2013 of stomach cancer. Doc said alcohol contributed to his death.

I don't condone infidelity and you should have left him before you took that option.

Don't wait for him to get better, he won't.

solus sto posted 11/3/2019 19:30 PM

Iím so sorry to read this, PP. I havenít be around muchóbut you were working hard the last time I saw, and still are.

And heís not.

I think it may be time to let him live his life. It may not be happier, but it is his choice.

It always has been.

One of the bitterest pills for the BS to swallow is that we own our healing. I railed against it for about 3 months. I think most of us do.

But we have to; the alternative is misery. And some DO choose that route.

You donít have to go along for the rideóWS or no.

My kids were hugely relieved by separation and divorce. It wasnít the outcome originally envisioned, but sometimes itís the right oneóthe constructive one.

Millions of hugs to you.

sorrowfulmate posted 11/3/2019 20:59 PM


Iím very sorry that you are dealing with this. Iím in AA and have a long term drinking problem. Shortly after DDay I re-entered AA (I had dropped out).

Alcoholism is a disease which screws with how you cope. When issues hit instead of dealing with them you simply drink. You hold in everything an then it blows up and comes out but that doesnít stop you from drinking. Itís like a volcano that is under pressure.

When I first started drinking it didnít take much to make me feel better but as I went along it took more and more alcohol to handle the situations. By the time I realized I needed help I would get home and slam 1/2 a 750ml bottle of Jack Daniels just to take the edge off.

Because of the drinking I wasnít able to process my thoughts and emotions. All I wanted to do was obliterate the pain, anger, emotional chaos that was in my head. Because of this there was no way that I would have been able to help my WS heal because of my alcoholism. Because of my alcoholism I wasnít able to face what I needed to do to become a safe partner.

Alcoholism wonít allow your WS to heal because the alcohol is an emotional crutch which short circuits a persons ability to work on emotional issues. Sobriety is more not drinking it requires a shift away from running away from problems to facing them without using chemicals to try to blot out the pain.

Unfortunately it takes a really hard bottoming out to want to stop. You have to come to a point where the pain of not drinking is less than the pain of drinking.

Trdd posted 11/4/2019 11:24 AM

Strength to you to decide and act despite anxiety, fear or pain.

You can do it.

pinkpggy posted 11/4/2019 13:08 PM

Thank you everyone. Last night, after he came home with a large box of wine = to 4 bottles, I decided (again) to have another discussion.

He does not hear my side of it, he just brings up the A and said that I am trying to control him and not let him relax and "have fun" and that I am not going to stop him from drinking. I explained that it gives me anxiety and changes his personality and he becomes angry/hostile. I brought up otions of how we could move forward either together or seperate. Which led to threats of him quitting his job, not supporting us, or throwing himself off a cliff to end things. This is how every discussion regarding working on things has turned out and why I can never actually move forward, because I cannot get anywhere. He respected my comments enough not to get drunk last night, but still had 4 large tumblers of wine throughout the night. We ate dinner and I went to bed early, as I normally do.

And its the same cycle over and over.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 1:08 PM, November 4th (Monday)]

DoinBettr posted 11/4/2019 13:13 PM

What more can I do to help him?

What does help look like for him? Have you talked to him like this, "I feel you aren't happy lately. What can I do just to make you happier?" See, then it is less, "How will you forgive me" and more "I care and want you happier like all spouses do."
Does that make sense? Then you can see if there is more action you can do.

Am I not doing enough?

The question above will help answer this.
Also, maybe try the "10 minute marriage makeover." Things like that tend to help and drive exercises to rebuild your marriage. Maybe your spouse was just as sad prior to the marriage and now that you are focused on him so hard, you are seeing his pain. That is why I am saying, try things around the affair, not directly at the affair. Then it will enlighten you on ways to improve your marriage.

Am I crazy for thinking at this point we should have more progress.
Are my expectations unrealistic?

I think you are using the affair as the single point of you breaking everything. I bet he has other resentments. Maybe if you lighten those with some light simple work, the affair may heal during the process.

Is there really any way forward?

You seem focused on the drinking. Why not ask it for more of a health based reason? "Mr. Pink, I think drinking everyday may be hurting your health. What if you go 2 weeks without drinking and I will drop this subject? Just kind of a confirm you aren't addicted check in. You don't want your body addicted so it hurts when you aren't drinking." Kind of a question about his health. Maybe even suggest you both go on a cleanse if you are really worried.

I think the exclusive focus on thinking the only problem in the marriage is your cheating is probably stopping him from moving on. He is probably one of the guys who wants to forget it and push it out of his mind. Then fix things around the marriage. Maybe talk about what you love he does and go positive as well. Instead of pushing at the negative, talk about the positive.

Just some options.

pinkpggy posted 11/4/2019 13:25 PM

DoinBettr- I have done all of those things you suggested. This isn't new. This has been years prior to the affair and after.

I have offered up everything and anything. But I cannot take back the affair.

KingRat posted 11/4/2019 13:35 PM

At this point, all you can do is emphasize your support for his decision to stop drinking and commit to subsequent actions to support his sobriety. But if the horse won't drink, doesn't matter how able the guide or good the water source is that's available.

If he will not oblige you, then you can either repeat this circular cycle and somehow try to be ok with it or enforce your boundaries and limitations for the sake of yourself and your family.

hikingout posted 11/4/2019 14:10 PM

Which led to threats of him quitting his job, not supporting us, or throwing himself off a cliff to end things. This is how every discussion regarding working on things has turned out and why I can never actually move forward, because I cannot get anywhere

So, what do you do now? These threats he is making, does it make you stay? These comments work for him, so why wouldn't he use them?

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