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pinkpggy posted 11/1/2019 10:07 AM

I am completely at a loss on how to proceed, and I feel like I need others insight to help me.

We are almost 3 years out from out DDay and we really have made zero progress. My husband cannot stop accusing me of still being in an affair. He will not go to IC, MC, read a book, go on SI, listen to a podcast, nothing. I continue to work on myself and he aknowledges it but there is NO movement from him. I have seen two therapists, I have read every book, I still come on SI daily to read, I listen to podcasts, I talk to people, I read other infidelity sites, and above all else I have kept NC from my AP since April of 2017. I have NO desire to ever see or speak to him again.

Every night its misery in my house. Last night because I was looking at my phone for FB Halloween pics, he accused me of cheating still. He is always angry, drinking in excess, yelling, or generally in a fowl mood. I have such bad anxiety over what every night will look like. We do not do anything as a couple or as a family. Life was similar to this prior to the affair, now there is just more anger.

I live a totally seperate life because otherwise I would have NO life and I have young kids that don't deserve that. I do all the chores, the kids stuff, the school stuff, and I work full time. I ask very little of my husband because I know he is hurting. I try to support him in every way that I can and express my love for him. I never make him feel bad about being sad. I encourage him to do things for him, to rest, or nap, or get out alone.

My kids have said they would be happier if we divorced, and to be honest, I can't help but think we would be too because right now we are not living, we are existing and walking on egg shells.

I just do not know what more I can do.

ETA: Before anyone asks, I have of course kept all the rules in place. No contact, open phone, emails, no lying, no hiding, full transparancy, there has be no additional trickle truth, I dropped ALL my affair related friends and I only go out to workout and then the rest of the time is spent working or with my kids. I am 100% commited to recovery but we have not made any progress.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:11 AM, November 1st (Friday)]

Westway posted 11/1/2019 10:16 AM

BS here.

I think you should divorce him. I wish my WW had 1/1000th of the contrition you have, but it sounds to me like he's a guy who is stuck in a pattern of behavior that he feels comfortable with. He is never going to forgive you but he doesn't want to be the bad guy who files for D. You on the other hand stay out of guilt. You can't do that. Every day you stay in this toxic relationship you are damaging the kids more and more. You owe it to them to take the risk and be the bad guy. File for divorce and take whatever licks he or his family or friends give you...for your kids. Do it for them. Get out of the madness, even if it means you have to take on the mantle of the cheating whore wife who broke up the family.

pinkpggy posted 11/1/2019 10:21 AM

Thanks Westway...for what its worth I have read your ENTIRE thread and follow it. I still read on JFO every day because it helps me to stay vigiliant in what my BH is feeling and dealing with.

I have the full support of my family and friends regarding whatever I chose. Thankfully, no one saw me as a cheating whore (expect my husband who called me that on Dday).

I am scared either way.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:22 AM, November 1st (Friday)]

hikingout posted 11/1/2019 10:29 AM

I remember that at some point (maybe close to a year ago) you had decided you were going to get a divorce. What changed your mind?

amli posted 11/1/2019 10:30 AM

BS here. This may be my desire projecting onto your situation, but I would love for my WS to ask me if there is1. Anything he can do to improve our chances and 2. Do I think there is anything we could do as a couple to improve things.

I would also want some time to think about it, because, at least here, in my world, the feelings are so confusing I wouldn't want to make a suggestion and then feel I can't "pile on" later-so I would want some time.

Some BS's may feel like this places the burden on the BS, but withholding information on needs, once you can articulate them, isn't doing anyone any good.

Perhaps you can also convey what you think could help-who knows, maybe some of the "needs" will overlap and that may be a start.

But, to a certain extent this is a one way street-If he can't come up with anything that he wants from you and/or from both of you-it may be time to let go as the message there is "this is as good as it can get."

Kiba posted 11/1/2019 10:31 AM

Yes you hurt him. Yes he is in pain. The problem now is not you. The problem is that he refuses to process the pain. The excess drinking numbs the pain. But all that does is temporarily put it on ice. It will continue to come back full force and with interest. You cannot help those who do not want to be helped. Even your children are wanting to get away from how bad this situation is.

He needs to get his head out of his ass and process the pain. Sadly, it may take you serving him with D papers. Maybe you can have his friends help with an intervention.

pinkpggy posted 11/1/2019 10:31 AM

Hiking-I think we had a huge blow out and then things improved. But they never stay improved. We are still on the roller coaster. And I told myself 3-5 years of healing. Closing in on year 3 with no progress is disheartning.

pinkpggy posted 11/1/2019 10:34 AM

I would love for my WS to ask me if there is1. Anything he can do to improve our chances and 2. Do I think there is anything we could do as a couple to improve things.

I have done this. His # one thing was for me to go back to work full time, which I have been for over a year. I offer all sorts of things, ask what I can do. He doesn't respond. He says there is nothing that will make it better.

tikismom posted 11/1/2019 10:38 AM

Also a BS. I can understand from your BS point that he thinks you are still cheating. Not that you are, but how can it be proven 100%? My WH is likely not cheating either, I really don't think so. He is completely transparent, the actions are there, he says he is not & will not again. However, as much as he tells me that (and I want him to continue), I just can't ever be 100% sure. I can't even describe in words how it feels to be a BS & have your spouse cheat, lie, betray. Its horrific, so I see & can feel for him on why he thinks it could still be happening. And not for nothing, but he never would have had to even think to go to IC, read books about his unfaithful spouse, podcasts, etc if you did not cheat. So that may be his line of thinking on not wanting to do that work.

However, you both cannot continue to live this way. Its not good for either of you. You both have to want the marriage to work. And it sounds like he just can't move past the betrayal (and thats ok because no one is obligated to R with a cheating spouse) I am assuming you are past the heart to heart on things need to change. I just think a divorce is probably the best option here for both of you.

EllieKMAS posted 11/1/2019 10:42 AM

(((pinkpggy)))

Honey, you don't owe him a hair shirt for the rest of time. Sounds to me like you are a model WS and that you have and continue to do the work that you need to do. Moreso, you are doing that not only for him, but also for yourself.

Speaking as a BW, I can empathize with him to a certain degree. That being said, part of the BS work is to dig in and figure out what we want and figure out if our WS can do that. And then to make the according decisions. Sounds to me like he has done none of that digging.

When infidelity happens, both parties have work to do. If they decide to stay together and attempt R, then both have to get to a point where the A is truly in the past. It sounds to me like your H is still enjoying holding the moral whip hand. That is NOT OK. No matter what you did, it is not ok. And you don't deserve to be treated that way.

I can say that this was by far the most devastating thing I have ever been through. The most painful. But I will get past it and rise above because I refuse to let it define me. IMHO, your H on some level, enjoys the pain. I have definitely know people like that. The ones who seem to enjoy wallowing in misery. And unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to change that for him. He has to decide that he's sick enough of it to get out of the pit.

So... what do YOU want? You get to have wants. You get to ask for things. And if what you want is something he can't do..... well, I think you owe it to yourself to think about moving on. His refusal to deal with his shit is detrimental to your own healing at this point I think.

I'm sorry pink - you are in a really tough spot for sure.

Chaos posted 11/1/2019 10:43 AM

Pink - I know his roller coaster is real. And when he's in a "down" you get a scenario you outlined here.

What does it look like when he's in an "up" or on a "flat" part? Does he even have those? If so, are they the exception or more the rule or equal in number? If he does how far apart are they?

Also, what type of support network does he have independent of you? A family member, buddy, etc.? Someone he can vent to or something he can take his frustrations out on [trust me - I've done some venting that will make a drunken sailor blush and swung a bat at the cages that would make Thor in awe of my strength and had the treadmill at the gym beg for mercy].

If he's keeping all this bottled up for 3 years, with no outlet, he's a powder keg waiting to explode/implode. That wouldn't be good for anyone - not him, not you, not your children.

pinkpggy posted 11/1/2019 10:46 AM

And not for nothing, but he never would have had to even think to go to IC, read books about his unfaithful spouse, podcasts, etc if you did not cheat. So that may be his line of thinking on not wanting to do that work.

And I totally see this and understand it, that is why I don't push ANYTHING. My marriage was in shambles pre-affair. I had asked for a divorce several times and we/he could have benefited from counseling in general. The drinking has been an issue from day. I have had 100 heart to hearts and we don't get anywhere.

I take full responsibility for my affair and I am committed to working on US. I don't want to be in a marriage like roomates and two ships passing in the night. That is how it was PRIOR to my affair and I was hopeful we could turn things around now. That just hasn't happened.

landclark posted 11/1/2019 10:47 AM

You say drinking in excess. Has that been going on since dday? My brother is stuck in a pattern of victimhood I believe in large part due to his excessive drinking. It allows him to be the worst version of himself. Iím not saying everybody is like this of course, but could be part of the problem.

I do believe the wayward has a part in the BS healing right after dday. I donít or canít jump on this bandwagon that as betrayed, only we and we alone can control our healing. That said, we do have some ownership there. We canít expect our W to do it all. It will never work. Itís time for him to take some ownership for his healing. This is no way for you or your kids to live.

pinkpggy posted 11/1/2019 10:49 AM

Also, what type of support network does he have independent of you? A family member, buddy, etc.? Someone he can vent to or something he can take his frustrations out on

He has up periods, but they last maybe 2-3 weeks.

No one. Everything is on me. I am the friend, the spouse, the whipping post, the punching bag, the therapist. I have to be 100% on and the model wife at all times, I am not allowed to be down or sad. If he sees ANY sign of that, shit hits the fan.


You say drinking in excess. Has that been going on since dday?

This has been a marriage issue since day 1. For 20 years. He stopped for about 3 months pre dday.

Last night I was in a bad mood because I went out to get the halloween buckets and found ANOTHER giant bottle of whiskey hidden in the garage. But rather than confront him, I kept it to myself. Which got me accused of still cheating.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:51 AM, November 1st (Friday)]

EllieKMAS posted 11/1/2019 10:51 AM

I am committed to working on US.

Pink, I can tell YOU are.... but US is only US if both parties are pulling the oars. If only one is, then the boat just goes in pointless circles, you know?

No matter how much you want to save the M, if he isn't willing to pitch in too then it doesn't really matter what you do. Just my 0.02.

LC had it right - the BS has to be willing to take cahrge of their own healing, whatever that looks like.

Westway posted 11/1/2019 10:53 AM

Are you in AlAnon?

DevastatedDee posted 11/1/2019 10:54 AM

Every night its misery in my house. Last night because I was looking at my phone for FB Halloween pics, he accused me of cheating still. He is always angry, drinking in excess, yelling, or generally in a fowl mood. I have such bad anxiety over what every night will look like. We do not do anything as a couple or as a family. Life was similar to this prior to the affair, now there is just more anger.

If he's drinking in excess, yelling and in a foul mood and you were anxious before in the marriage too and this isn't just because of DDay...this isn't a functioning marriage for either of you. A spouse who does all of that is someone who isn't marriage material, taking the WS/BS completely out of it. This doesn't sound like any way to live. You're worried about his anger and drinking and he's afraid all the time that you'll cheat on him again. Plus, even the kids have suggested divorce.

An angry drinking spouse isn't healthy for you or the kids. It is quite possible for you to have screwed up the marriage by cheating and for him to also have screwed up the marriage by being an angry alcoholic. You aren't obligated to stay in a marriage that hurts your children.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 10:55 AM, November 1st (Friday)]

RedHeadTemper posted 11/1/2019 11:02 AM

Pinkpggy,

The biggest lesson I learned as a BS in all this crap is that I as a parent and spouse need to protect myself, my kids and my spouse. It seems as if your husband has not progressed dispite you doing the work. I would not stay in that relationship. From reading on this site it seems it takes 2 very willing people to R. He's probably taking advantage of you like my wife did of me during her affair. And his angry spurts, and yelling is verbal abuse on his end to 'settle the score' on pain. You need to protect yourself and your spouse and your kids. Even if that means leaving your husband. You can not change him. Only he can do that.

Before you leave him though, sober him up one day, give him a good break and without the kids there, look him dead in the eye and tell him you love him. Tell him to listen to everything you have to say without interruption. Tell him that you want to spend the rest of your life with him. And that you are sorry about the pain you've caused him. It wasn't right to inflict that undeserved pain to someone you love. Tell him that you've put in the work and will continue to put in the work. Tell him that his behavior is hurting you greatly. And not minimizing the pain you caused him, he is inflicting pain on you daily. Tell him that it is not ok and that is abuse. Tell him that you are hurting so much that you want to leave. And you will leave if he continues his abusive hahavior. Tell him this saddens you because your love for him and desire to be with him, but let him know too that you want to protect yourself and you want to protect him. Tell him that you're worried that being around him continues to cause him pain. And you want to feel safe and you want him to feel safe.

Men need direct communication and expectations, with no beatimg around the bush and no reading between the lines.

To put it into perspective, as a BS I heard my wife during the affair tell me I was aweful and our marraige was horrible. But I wouldn't change and so that's why she had an affair. I told her that if she would have told me that I'm being unreasonable, and that she's going to find a new lover because of it, I would have corrected the behavior.

Same thing here. Give your husband clear expectations before your leave and make sure he knows that you are not leaving because you don't love him or want to be with your AP, but that you want to protect yourself and him.

[This message edited by RedHeadTemper at 11:04 AM, November 1st (Friday)]

KingRat posted 11/1/2019 11:03 AM

In order to heal, he needs to stop drinking. The drinking causes his emotional processing abilities shutdown. He is emotionally trapped in the aftermath of Dday despite it being 3 years later. The anger he is feeling cannot be released and amplifies when he is intoxicated.

People who focus on the here and now, without thinking about the impact on the future, are more aggressive than others when they are sober, but the effect is magnified greatly when they're drunk," said Brad Bushman, lead author of the study and professor of communication and psychology at Ohio State University.

"Alcohol has a myopic effect -- it narrows your attention to what is important to you right now. That may be dangerous to someone who already has that tendency to ignore the future consequences of their actions and who is placed in a hostile situation."

People who abuse alcohol and drugs tend to need a scapegoat. It helps to reinforce the pattern and justify the need to continue to drink. It's not just about the infidelity, it reaches into all aspects. I think you mentioned he drank excessively prior to your affair. He needs to seek inpatient therapy if that is the case. He needs to learn how to process his emotions instead of trying to suppress them.

pinkpggy posted 11/1/2019 11:15 AM

Give your husband clear expectations before your leave and make sure he knows that you are not leaving because you don't love him or want to be with your AP, but that you want to protect yourself and him.

This has happened over and over. I cannot stay with someone who on a daily basis choses to violate my (and my kids) feeling of safety in my own home by drinking to excess. I have made it CRYSTAL clear. He stopped for 3 months after dday after we had the talk you mentioned above.

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