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He asks me to leave

Breathinglife posted 10/31/2019 18:44 PM

Hi all. I am ww. Been 1 year an a half since last d day.
BH has had a horrible week. Is in full despair and depression mode. He is asking me to leave.
He has asked me a million times. Usually in moments of flooding and anger. Eventually as things get calmer I plead for him not to make me leave. So Iím still home. One thing is that when there have been moments he convinced me that is the right thing to do, that it is what he needs, that my presence is painful, that he needs to regain some self respect and much more. I understand. I say ok I can see that you really need this. i start packing and 9 times out of ten he would then become angry because I gave up, Because by agreeing to leave it showed I was not willing to keep fighting for him and I was willing to leave him alone. i have come to see our arguments as a test of what I am willing to put up with for him.

This week as I said has been very painful for him. Seems like more than usual. We had come to a much calmer time in the last 3 months I think. We were Having much less marathons and fights and craziness. Hardly none or maybe one bad day every 5-7 days. When in the previous 6 months we had 1-2 decent days per week
He is back to a very very dark place often expresses feeling suicidal, extremely depressed, very angry, hopeless. So we have Not been able to have any real quiet time, just relaxed and maybe enjoying each otherís company. Even had been able to share affection and hold each other for 8 days now.
So he is seeing himself in a downward spiral, and is asking me (Not yelling, Not throwing me out. Not even in anger, but in despair) To please go, because he needs to get away from me.
I am so torn. Reading the posts here makes me feel like even though he would be angry in the beginning he may well feel better about himself after, for standing up for himself, for not allowing me to dodge the consequences of my actions, (losing him, our home, our dogs and well he is also the only bread winner in this house since d day).
i know it is fair for him to ask me to go. I donít deny i deserve it too. I also know that he will be wondering what awful things Iím doing every second Iím not here in the house. he cant trust me at all, I have certainly earned this with so much bad behavior. he has been able to live with me all this time because I am home and he knows what Iím doing.

I want to help him, I want to help him feel better, I want him to be able to respect himself and have some pride.
I also donít want him to feel Iím ready to abandon him all over again in this very difficult time for him. Feels like the easy way out if I leave. I also would likely lose him because he is certain i would cheat the moment Iím out the door.

It is not so at all. I am have been working on things and have learned a lot, I have a new point of view and understanding about marriage, my responsibilities, my issues, and much more. he just doesnt yet trust that I can change. I understand that.

HellFire posted 10/31/2019 18:53 PM

Can you stay with your parents for a few days? He needs space. He is begging you to go. It doesn't have to be a long term thing. Maybe a few days would help him. If you could stay somewhere where he can trust you won't be cheating on him.

You said your last dday was a year and a half ago. How many ddays have there been?

Instead of looking at your arguments as a test of what you have to put up with, which suggests a lack of epathy,lack of remorse, and you turning yourself into the victim, maybe you can look at it as his extreme pain and trauma..as him getting the poison out...as his reaction to your abuse towards him.

What work have you done on yourself, to become a safe partner?

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:54 PM, October 31st (Thursday)]

Breathinglife posted 10/31/2019 19:57 PM

That thing about the test came out wrong. Iím not complaining that I have to put up with him or what he does because he is in pain. Not at all. I put him in this situation and myself as well. I have never been so acutely aware of all the ways big and small in which I hurt him. I had never realized how disrespectful and what a bad wife I had been to him until this year. This year has revealed to me the monster I have been, that I victimized him, that I was manipulative and a liar.
I did a lot of damage to him, I did traumatize him. I am no victim in any way. I am here by choice, because finally I understand that unconditional love is not a feeling, itís a choice and he deserves to have that in his life. He deserves it from the person he has tried to care for and loved all these years.

I feel he tests me in a way, he lets it all out, the pain the anger and he wants to see me stick with him, fight for him, no matter what he throws at me. So he tries to convince me of why I need to leave, yet he wants me to convince him of why I wonít leave him alone, Why I care, why he is important to me, why this time is different.

We have taken a marriage seminar for infidelity issues together. I also took a course for wayward women/Christian and psychology based.
I continue reading and learning about marriage principles. I have been talking to a counselor for months. I have removed myself form everything and anything that has been required to make him feel the safest possible. Whatever he has voiced he didnít like or feels in anyway unsafe has been eliminated. he has access to my phone computer and every password etc. I only leave the house with him with the exception of dog walking and vet visit. I do as much as I can to let him know when I leave, when I arrive, route taken, pictures, sharing my location etc.
I am seeking to honor his wishes as best I Can. Still trying to keep doing things better and correctly all the time. Itís not easy to retrain oneself after 45 years of being one way. A work in progress for sure.
I am lucky and grateful to be still here and in his presence.
Iím ashamed to say that there were 3 separate times throughout our marriage were I was acting out.

There is no place that he feels I can be safe at. No place.
Thatís the problem. I could have and would have at least let him be alone for a weekend to have time to think and be by himself, not halving me around. but really there is no place at all.

Update. After he shared a lot of his pain and the request for me to leave. I answered back and reflected on what he was asking of me, tried to convey that I understand why he needs the space and kindly also expressed how I wanted to show him I want to keep fighting for him and leaving Seems like the wrong way for me to do it because he will find no peace with me out of here. I let him know I need him and just want to be here for him whenever and for whatever he may want me.

He came home a couple of hours later and seemed worn out. Just quiet. He didnít lock himself in our room. That was my cue to get closer. We ate together. Napped together.

HouseOfPlane posted 10/31/2019 21:27 PM

Does your husband have access to professional counseling? You need to just stand in the storm for him, but he needs to heal himself ultimately. It is easier with helpful guidance from someone other than you.

Sending strength!

Beachwalker posted 10/31/2019 22:03 PM

So he tries to convince me of why I need to leave, yet he wants me to convince him of why I wonít leave him alone, Why I care, why he is important to me, why this time is different.

This is the battle going on inside of him. I, too, want to know why my WW wants to stay with me. It seems she put so much effort into meeting the other men that she was shopping for a new husband. Even if that is not true, her actions tell me she was not happy or satisfied in our relationship. So now I wonder why all the sudden 1) she wants to badly stay with me and 2) what has changed in her so quickly and completely that she is now a faithful wife? Only she Ė and you Ė can answer that for us BHís. We want the answer, but we donít know what it is, what proof you can provide that you wonít cheat again and that you genuinely love us.

You see, we feel that if our WWís really did truly love us, they wouldnít have done this to us in the first place. That means you have the monumental task of proving your love and faithfulness to us.

If he isnít in IC, he really needs to go. Tell him I, another BH, told him so. It will make this horrible journey he has to go on much shorter and less painful, and less lonely.

66charger posted 10/31/2019 22:56 PM

I am here by choice, because finally I understand that unconditional love is not a feeling, itís a choice and he deserves to have that in his life. He deserves it from the person he has tried to care for and loved all these years.

I feel he tests me in a way, he lets it all out, the pain the anger and he wants to see me stick with him, fight for him, no matter what he throws at me. So he tries to convince me of why I need to leave, yet he wants me to convince him of why I wonít leave him alone, Why I care, why he is important to me, why this time is different.

No advice you receive here will be better than what you have just written. You answered your own question. Accept the answer and go with it.

Babette2008 posted 11/1/2019 05:22 AM

Hi breathinglife

I'm a BS and frankly this concerns me:

I only leave the house with him with the exception of dog walking and vet visit. I do as much as I can to let him know when I leave, when I arrive, route taken, pictures, sharing my location etc.

And

There is no place that he feels I can be safe at. No place.
Thatís the problem. I could have and would have at least let him be alone for a weekend to have time to think and be by himself, not halving me around. but really there is no place at all.

After a year and a half this situation to me seems really dysfunctional. If he is so fearful of you betraying him that the only way he can feel safe is to essentially keep you a prisoner either

you are really that untrustworthy and it is too dangerous to let you out, in which case your BH should divorce you if that knowledge makes him so unhappy OR

After your affairs your BH will never feel safe, no matter what you do, because of his issues and this is how your marriage will be unless he gets therapy. How will you feel in 5 years if your marriage still looks like it does today? When will you pull the plug?

It is possible that because of your husband's issues that your betrayal means that you are not someone he will ever feel safe with, even if you do everything right.

Breathinglife posted 11/1/2019 07:00 AM

About counseling for him: he feels too embarrassed to talk to anyone about everything. It would be yet another humiliation for him to do so. These are his words.
Therapy would be helpful Iím sure. My counselor has said that people heal from trauma on their own given enough time.
So if he canít bear to see someone to help him, I am aware that it just will take longer.
I know itís on me to not make things worse. To be safe for him to express himself, to encourage and support the best I can. Sometimes Iím at a loss, sometimes a difficult moment goes smother. I just keep trying.
At a year and a half itís no surprise to me that things are so shaky, this is a long process. There is a lot of pain and all the old crap in our relationship we are processing now together with the previous acting out issues. We had no idea what to do before, we just tried to move on. So he never got to truly unload his feelings about what I had done and I never took responsibility for any of it. It all was kinda brushed under the rug.
About him feeling unsafe /me being untrustworthy. Well he has no reason to believe anything I say at this point. I have been sneaky, liar and cheater. Plus the trauma and ptsd that my actions and the subsequent trickle truth and crazy fights have done a lot of damage to him. He is afraid to believe, to extend any kind of faith because he doesnít want to get burned again. Understandably.
I am grateful that at least I get to be in his life, Whatever i can do I will do.
He did not demand for me to be in the house. I have chosen to cut out things that were a problem in the beginning, things that triggered and made him afraid. He had put up with me for so many years, Itís my turn to be there for him in any way he needs it.
The outcome is unknown, it is possible he would never feel safe. As long as he is still willing to let me be with him, Iíll keep on trying.

numb&dumb posted 11/1/2019 07:42 AM

Fully R'd BH here.

I am a self admitted guy's guy. So I understand his reluctance. If you really want what is best for him and want him to get better you need to encourage him to seek help.

Infidelity messes you up in ways you can't understand. (Not being snarky. Until you have walked in a BS shoes there is not a real way to understand it). It is an injury. It isn't visible to the naked eye, but it is there. Just like any injury rehabilitation is the best path to healing with no lasting after effects.

IC can be scary for him, but it can for you too. Exploring things he hadn't considered before could mean that he does wish to continue in this relationship.

The hard truth about being a betrayed spouse is that healing is an individual exercise. You can support him, but that is secondary to the work he has to do. Right now the future of your M is secondary to what he needs to do to regain his balance.

Approach him in the interest of him getting better regardless of what that means for you. He isn't healing right now and without the right tools he won't. He may learn to live with it, but that isn't the same as healing.

Many years ago I was a new BH and I 100% get the reluctance and the emasculation he feels. ICs have heard much worse and are professionals being paid to help the patient get better. There is not any judgement there. The clinical separation an IC needs to keep to do that job keeps them from judging a patient.

IC is something that only he can decide to do. Further if his heart isn't in it then it is a waste of time and money. If he can commit to that process he has the possibility of his life becoming good, even great again. It is not uncommon for a BS (WS too) to have co-dependence issues that make the A a personal affront to their identity.

FWIW I think you'd benefit from seeing an IC too. Maybe if you did it and he saw some results than he might think twice about it too.

Breathinglife posted 11/1/2019 08:45 AM

It is good to hear that you felt that way as a man however in the end you did decide to do it and it was helpful for you.

Whatever the consequences for me if him seeking counseling takes him away from me I guess I had it coming all along. His recovery is more important anything. He suffers so so much day in and day out and he deserves so much better. I do see how wounded he is, how much i have wounded him.
Itís a horrific realization to be the cause of his despair and oh so so many terrible consequences.
I have been talking to a counselor for several months.

Whatever I may have improved in seems so insignificant to him he mostly feels nothing has changed and I can never make him feel differently about me. He says I donít know how or Iím the wrong woman to achieve that. Ouch 😣
I am not yet doing everything I have set out to do always at 💯
So that needed consistency not being there makes him feel Iím not actually doing anything at all.
That is on me. I can do better and will continue to try Practice makes perfect. Iím going for that.
I know we have some serious issues to work through. We also have lots of love and many years that we donít want to have been for nothing. Even though I practically threw them away with my actions. I have come to understand how mistaken I was about everything, about life and marriage. I see clearer than ever the value of I stand to lose and all that he gave.
Thank you all for your time to reply

Babette2008 posted 11/1/2019 13:02 PM

I think that Numb&Dumb gave you really good advice. If it has been a year and a half and your BH is still feeling like this, I think he is missing tools in his tool chest that he needs to heal. You are unlikely to be the person who can give him those tools. He needs help from someone else. He might eventually develop coping skills as your counselor has said, but those coping skills might not be compatible with being happily married.

You also need to let go of prioritizing staying together and trying to "fix" him. You can (and seem like you are trying very hard to) be a good and safe partner for your H. But you can't make someone happy. You can create a better or worse environment, but that's it.

Also ask yourself how much of what you are doing is about you wanting to feel better about yourself because of what you have done and how much of it is really for your BH's benefit. Some of the lengths you are going to seem more like putting on a hair shirt to punish yourself more than they are about having a healthy relationship. And frankly, some of his actions it may well be his way of punishing you rather than expending that energy to work on himself. I get being angry, but after a point it becomes dysfunctional. If he really dislikes you and doesn't respect you or trust you after what you have done, he should do something to put himself in a better situation.

JBWD posted 11/1/2019 13:03 PM

... if him seeking counseling takes him away from me I guess I had it coming all along.

Beware of any ďtellsĒ from you regarding this sentiment. I think a lot of WSs (especially those slower to remorse, donít know if thatís your situation but itís a hunch for now) tend to develop a sense of altruism or righteousness- ďIíve done great and understand a lot about myself, now itís your turn,Ē and that can place some unintended pressure on recovering BSs.

ďI had it comingĒ is a common mantra among those wallowing in shame, and I would like to challenge you to dissect that statement made in this setting- I believe itís phrased (somewhat drastically) to evoke pity, and I truly believe thatís not what you want. In order to progress, I have worked hard to detach sufficiently to examine that YES I am experiencing consequences of my betrayal. And theyíre perfectly logical given how I behaved. But theyíre part of a cycle of change, and NOT some sort of divine retribution, which is how ďthatís what I getĒ or ďI guess I had it comingĒ sounds. Just think about it- If Iím wrong Iím wrong...

Breathinglife posted 11/1/2019 14:26 PM

Yes sir you are correct. That is a poor attitude, I need to stay away from shame, I also need to stay away from self pity or looking to be pitied. Thank you. I donít want to come across that way. I may have been working myself, however I have so much damn baggage Iím no way near any position to claim any kind of righteousness. I am a mess, just starting to scratch the surface, looking to heal and be a better human being.
It would not be divine retribution if he left me, I do realize how much I have hurt my husband, I realize how much pain he is carrying because of me. I would not be surprised if by him talking to a counselor he would find the courage to get away from me. Now if he got the courage to get away from me because he is feeling better about himself I would be very glad that he found his strength. That said. It is no deterrent for me that he decides to leave me. It will be Up to me show him something worth coming back for and my work/my fight for him doesnít stop if he leaves/makes me leave/divorces me.

I want him to feel better, because he is suffering. It is what he wants, what he says all the time that he needs to stop feeling so miserable all the time. I donít want him healed I donít want to rush him. I know 1 1/2 years is not nearly enough time for there to be a huge improvement. I am pretty clear on that.

Remorse set in pretty early on, I still did a lot of damage because empathy was slower to come. Full on empathy took some guidance that didnít come for months after dday. I remind myself of all he lost and gave up for me over our life together and still is.
I still have not controlled my emotions too well and lash out sometimes. When I need to be the quietest and most understanding This hurts us very much.

sisoon posted 11/1/2019 14:59 PM

If your H expresses suicidal thoughts, you probably need to call 911. You simply are not equipped to handle a suicide threat.

I, too, think he needs help from a professional. I suspect he's dealing with a giant fear of abandonment, and that he's stuck. He needs an external stimulus to get unstuck.

You can encourage him, but he has to make his own decision.

You might point out that 1) sessions with a licensed therapist are confidential, and 2) an experienced therapist has heard it all.

Breathinglife posted 11/1/2019 18:40 PM

More than wanting to feel good about myself with what I am doing. I am trying to just do the right thing. He may have in some ways transmitted his pain to me. We have discussed it. He has admitted to it and has made an effort to hold back. I can tell the difference. That was mostly coming out in some hurtful words and such when the flooding occurred. The other things I have volunteered for as the need came up.
I am trying to stick it out as he has for me too in the past. I desire to show him I am here no matter what. He wants to see that. He wants to see me not give up. He wants to feel wanted and that he is worth the fight. I believe he is worth the fight.

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