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Betrayed Menz Thread - Part 34

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Mr. Kite posted 3/26/2020 15:50 PM

How is everyone else faring?

My wife and I are retired so life isn't much different for us as far as our normal routine goes.

We go to the store once a week. People are walking around with gloves and masks on even though there have been zero confirmed coronavirus cases in our county. Better safe than sorry.

Took our new dog out for a walk this morning. There were lots of people out walking and many with dogs.

Have been working on songwriting using Fl Studio 20 and Nexus 3. Bought a boombox from Amazon in order to play all the cassettes I have stored away but it hasn't arrived yet.

Hope everyone else is doing well under the circumstances.

Brew3x posted 3/26/2020 17:34 PM

Iím doing ok, I was under quarantine and havenít had any human contact in over 2 weeks, my W is trapped in TX for work. The isolation combined with the aftermath of her A is really dragging me down but Iím fighting it off. Iíve been working on some interior painting projects on crappy days and getting the garden ready on nice days. Working out like Iím in prison!
Hope everyone else is doing well!

Butforthegrace posted 3/26/2020 17:37 PM

We now have a 3-week "shelter in place" directive from our Governor." Both my wife and I have easy ability to work remotely and frequently do so even during "normal" times, so that part is seamless, but the economic slowdown is scary for professionals in the industries in which we work.

Health-wise, my wife and I are probably healthier now than before. Because we're cooped up in the house all day, we've been getting outside most days for power walks, followed by stretching, and/or yoga, and/or weights after. And eating healthier because of no restaurant food.

Our daughter is home. She was attending one of the colleges that sent all the students home to take classes remotely. She's pretty diligent and hard working and has mostly been independent. She works out daily as well.

Our son lives on his own. Historically he almost never got sick. He reported a week or so ago that he had a sore throat, cough, and mild fever for a couple of days. He may have had the corona virus, but we don't know for sure because he can't get tested. In any event, he feels fine now.

HeartFullOfHoles posted 3/26/2020 21:43 PM

Working more than I should because what else is there to do? My youngest appears to have made it out of NY safely. Keep saying I need to go to the store to get a few things, but every day I find something to make with what I already have.

sisoon posted 3/27/2020 11:05 AM

Son and Grandson in NYC. Upper West Side. They are scheduled to fly here in couple of weeks, but I'm not sure I want them here, since I have a history of pneumonia. I'm not proud of that.

W has had a sore throat for over a week, but no fever or shortness of breath. I seem to be fine.

The food sellers here have senior hours. I went yesterday, and the 2 supermarkets I went to were jam-packed. At Whole Foods, people pretty much observed the 6' recommended social distancing. At Jewel-Osco, there was enough room to maintain the space.

One of my neighbors has a brother and SIL who have tested positive for the virus.

My bike is ridable, though not complete yet. I did 7+ miles on Wednesday, and felt great. First ride of the year. Butt and shoulders are now sore.

Machiavellia84 posted 3/30/2020 21:01 PM

So for 6 months, I have been in literal hell - struggling so much with coming to terms with reality, coping with the endless waves of shame and humiliation and hurt and anger. Summoning every single ounce of strength in me to keep battling, to survive.

And last night, I discovered that for the entire 6 months since D-Day, she has been lying to me. She claimed she ended the affair, and has maintained no contact whatsoever since D-Day. I have repeatedly reached out and asked if that was true. I guess my gut was just firing off ever so often, about how unseemingly "straightforward" she was maintaining no-contact. I have, afterall, read a thousand articles and books and videos detailing the affair fog and the affair withdrawals.

There was no way she would be such a special creature that was immune to the effects of "ending an affair". Especially when it was discovered, and not something she confessed to.

So turns out she has been meeting him for coffee during work hours. Drinks after work. Being friendly and all, and just basically keeping the door open to the affair. She has been thinking about him, chatting with him, meeting him... all the while insisting multiple times that it was a no-contact situation.

So now here I am. What I would like to call D-Day 2. Whereby the "reality" that I was struggling so much to deal with post-affair, is now all fked up again. Restarting from ground zero.

I'm so lost.

Mr. Kite posted 3/30/2020 21:32 PM

Machiavellia84

Restarting from ground zero.

Why go through this for another 6 months?

So for 6 months, I have been in literal hell - struggling so much with coming to terms with reality, coping with the endless waves of shame and humiliation and hurt and anger. Summoning every single ounce of strength in me to keep battling, to survive.

When you love someone and have invested so much time in a marriage or a relationship, it's extremely hard to kick them to the curb. All of us here understand that. But you will have to make a decision sooner or later whether you want to have a life free from infidelity or just survive.

And last night, I discovered that for the entire 6 months since D-Day, she has been lying to me.

That's what cheaters with no moral compass or boundaries do, they lie. Without trust there can be no friendship or marriage.

D-Day 1 was over 25 years ago and my wife and I lived in a "roommate" marriage with resentment and zero trust. I allowed myself to be tortured like that for many years, always wondering if she was still communicating with her old boyfriends or if there was someone else I didn't know about.

It took until February of this year until we both decided we'd had enough. It was either her passing a polygraph or a divorce. She passed with flying colors. I should have done that immediately and saved myself years of anguish. Please don't make the same mistake I did.

Machiavellia84 posted 3/30/2020 22:23 PM


Why go through this for another 6 months?

I have definitely asked myself this question. I don't wish to. And for there to be no further repeat pain down the road, there are only two ways to reach that outcome 1) I end the marriage. Put a stop to the possibility or rather, probability of future heartbreak. 2) she becomes a different person who will not ever cheat or break my trust again.

Obviously (2) is the unlikely, and absurdly idealistic scenario. But (1) also means there is no chance of ever finding out if (2) could happen. Sadly, it does seem increasingly clear that even if I was stupid and willing enough to give her yet another chance after the endless lies, the pain that will inevitably come when (2) doesn't happen, is something I don't want to experience ever again.

In other words, the cost of the ticket to finding out if (2) can happen is too much to bear.

But there isn't a straightforward option as well. (1) means I permanently affect our son's life. He is turning 8, and has been shielded (as far as we could) from the truth so far. I know I'm not the villain, I'm not the one who should feel guilty or responsible, but I DO feel that if I make the decision to end the marriage, I would be the one that wrote the ending to this farcical affair. I would be the one who decided on the conclusion - and that makes me guilty of destroying his chance at a "normal" life that isn't tainted by a broken family.



When you love someone and have invested so much time in a marriage or a relationship, it's extremely hard to kick them to the curb. All of us here understand that. But you will have to make a decision sooner or later whether you want to have a life free from infidelity or just survive.

Too true. I've known her since I was 15. Together since I was 16. I literally spent my entire life being devoted to her. 20 years down the fking drain.

I have tried surviving. I don't think that is working out too well.


That's what cheaters with no moral compass or boundaries do, they lie. Without trust there can be no friendship or marriage.

Exactly. We were at a point of zero trust. No, scratch that - her incessant lying when faced with a BS doing his damned best to extend olive branches time and again, meant that we were at a place where there was negative trust. (If that makes sense at all)

But despite it all, I did whatever I could to rebuild trust in her. I know that she could do all the right things, and if the BS myself didn't want to trust again, nothing she does would work.

So stupidly I kept trying. And trying. Not knowing that she just kept gaslighting and continued lying to my face all the while when I was trying to reestablish trust from ground zero.

To find out now it was all in vain - that she was able to take it all for granted... that she valued her AP more than her family - it's soul-crushing.

Loukas posted 3/31/2020 00:18 AM

Geez, Iím really sorry to hear about your second dday, Machiavellia. Like you said, itís soul crushing.

My ex and I had started dating when we were 16 as well. 17 years later it was all over. I found SI shortly after I knew my marriage was over, but I wasnít quite ready to fully admit it. I used to try and track down stories of highschool sweethearts reconciling. Tried to find a little more hope to keep me going.

It didnít take me long, I quit looking. I couldnít find what I was after. More importantly, I quit looking because what I found hurt too much. So instead of being lost in my pain. Paralyzed by hope. I focused on coming to grips with my denial. I slowly started accepting my reality. I gave up trying to control an outcome, and prepared for all outcomes. Especially emotionally.

I donít know what the future has in store for you, man. It sounds like you are beginning to ask yourself some real questions. Keep asking yourself them. Especially the ones you donít want to ask or answer the most. The more you do, the more comfortable theyíll become. Denial cloaked in hope is no way to live.

Strength, bud. Once again, Iím really sorry you had to experience this.

Incarnate posted 3/31/2020 01:22 AM

I read what happened to you, Machiavellia84. That's so fucked up. I just went through the exact same shit, but it took me five years to hit that second DDay.

There won't be a third. Don't let there be a third.

I've got a persistant cough and shortness of breath. Fatigue (more than usual), and I'm just really tired. My phone can't test my blood O2 levels anymore, so I can't check that, but my temperature is 96.9, so no fever.

Called my doc, got a call back from the triage nurse, and they want me to come in at 2:40 tomorrow to get tested for the fucking virus.

That's all I goddamn need right now, a life threatening virus.

If I die from COVID-19, I'm going to be very put out. Miffed. Perturbed, even.

HeartFullOfHoles posted 3/31/2020 02:11 AM

Nope, you'll be dead. We'll be pissed . I hope it turns out to be something mostly benign.

HeartFullOfHoles posted 3/31/2020 02:16 AM

Machiavellia84, As is said all the time around here. "When they show you who they are believe them." I spent way too much time trying to reconcile with an unrepentant WW. It is living hell. AS a minimum you need to read up on the 180.

digitaldrifter posted 3/31/2020 07:53 AM

The problem with dying is that when you're dead, you're dead for the rest of your life.

Butforthegrace posted 3/31/2020 08:51 AM

Mach:

But (1) also means there is no chance of ever finding out if (2) could happen.

That's wrong. A Divorce does not preclude building a new relationship with her, in the future, if she fixes herself into somebody you'd want to be with. In fact, the divorce process is very slow and can be dismissed at any time. Even if you were to start a divorce, you may choose to not complete it.

If you do complete it, you will remain in each other's lives in very active ways as co-parents. You will likely participate in school and extracurricular events together, possibly travel as a family, etc. There will be plenty of contact.

(1) means I permanently affect our son's life. He is turning 8, and has been shielded (as far as we could) from the truth so far.

Every act you take as a parent, every day, permanently affects your son's life. Living day-to-day in a toxic marriage will also permanently affect him.

The most important thing you can do is, no matter what, be the best, most involved father that you can be. That means being at your personal best. Staying in a toxic marriage will not accomplish that.

I would be the one who decided on the conclusion - and that makes me guilty of destroying his chance at a "normal" life that isn't tainted by a broken family.

His life is already tainted by a broken family. You can thank your WW for that. I guarantee you that, even though he is only 8, he intuits and senses way more than you think he does. Keep in mind that an 8-year old has way more unused brain space than you do, and a much smaller universe. He is a sponge literally sucking in every molecule of information about his world. Every strained smile. Every tense silence. Every sharp tone, even if muffled through a closed door or bedroom wall. Every sad look in the eye.

How long do you want to keep modelling that for hm as the paradigm for his adult relationship? I put it that way because D is not necessarily the worst outcome for a child whose parents are estranged. The age of 8-12 is actually a pretty good age for divorce, from a child's perspective. No longer an infant with the infant's incessant physical needs, but not yet an adolescent navigating through the shitstorm of adolescent emotional metamorphosis. These are pretty stable years where kids are amazingly flexible about familial arrangements so long as both parents remain committed and loving toward them.


[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 9:37 AM, March 31st (Tuesday)]

Mr. Kite posted 3/31/2020 09:53 AM

But there isn't a straightforward option as well. (1) means I permanently affect our son's life. He is turning 8, and has been shielded (as far as we could) from the truth so far. I know I'm not the villain, I'm not the one who should feel guilty or responsible, but I DO feel that if I make the decision to end the marriage, I would be the one that wrote the ending to this farcical affair. I would be the one who decided on the conclusion - and that makes me guilty of destroying his chance at a "normal" life that isn't tainted by a broken family.

What Butforthegrace said is right on the money,

Our son was 3 years old on D-Day 1. He's grown up now with his own family and still doesn't know what happened. All he knows growing up was that mom and dad couldn't stand each other. The bitterness is impossible to hide from a child. It permeates their life.

He has a Masters degree and a teaching credential but has spent years in therapy and on meds in order to deal with his OCD and anxiety issues. I blame myself for not having the stones to do the right thing at the right time.

Butforthegrace posted 3/31/2020 10:17 AM

All he knows growing up was that mom and dad couldn't stand each other. The bitterness is impossible to hide from a child. It permeates their life.

This is so true. Kids know way more that adults give them credit for, and in cases like this it is particularly difficult for the children because adults often don't provide context ("I'm bitter toward your mother because she cheated on me."). They only know that the parents are bitter toward one another. They grow up thinking that this is what marriage must be like.

In your first post, you said:

Through conversations I know for a fact the AP is taller, fitter, better-looking, and "bigger" than me. Overall she definitely didn't "affair down".

It's dealt a huge blow to me self esteem and the humiliation that's been heaped on me for the past 6 months has completely obliterated my ego and sense of self-worth and confidence. I feel utterly emasculated. And the pain and shame eats me alive.

This is a big deal. I'm not going to try to minimize it nor offer any hollow platitudes. Betrayed men often (maybe usually) feel a sense of emasculation by our wives' betrayal, but this sense it magnified to giant scale when facts like this exist.

Then you add in the fact that for the entire time since the A started she has remained in contact with him, having coffee, sharing affectionate text messages, even kissing him, while lying to you and telling you she was NC. And, as far as I know, they still work together.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 10:57 AM, March 31st (Tuesday)]

Machiavellia84 posted 3/31/2020 10:59 AM

I know this is quite off-topic, and I seldom if ever bring this up to anyone in real life as well (even most of my family doesn't know), but our son is a high-functioning kid who has a certified IQ (by a qualified child psychologist) that is higher than mine. And that's saying something given I've always been a pretty sharp tool in the shed.

My point is, hearing the very salient points and kind advice about kids... really hits home, HARD. I mean I always knew how we don't give young kids enough credit when it comes to picking up on "adult stuff". I know they sense, they see, they hear more than we think they do.

But it scares me so much that for the past 6 months, he might already have had a clear sense of things being "different" at home. Let's face it, when Daddy is suddenly a useless mess at home who has no energy to bring him swimming or cook him his favourite meals or play chess with him after school, SOMETHING must be up, right?

Plus the tension between his parents. The months of his screwed up dearest Mommy being cold and distant to us, followed up by Daddy being very harsh on him and his Mommy... sighs.

Thanks guys. I guess I do have more clarity with regards to just how much weight I should give when it comes to considering "affecting him" if/when I decide on D.

On a side note, D-day 2 stinks. Always had a nagging feeling it will come. Never actually expected it.

Having had Dday 1 before... doesn't make it any easier per se. The gut-wrenching suckerpunch is freaking real.

HeartFullOfHoles posted 3/31/2020 11:15 AM

Woke up to an adrenaline rush this morning. I was dreaming that my kids had moved in to avoid the CV-19 threat. Okay, that's not the nightmare. The nightmare is it was their mothers idea and she was joining them and of course no one had discussed any of this with me! The last thing I remember is saying "What are you doing here?" and her response was "You have a nice big house in the country and I thought it would be safer here." My mind was exploding as I woke. Thankfully this was not reality, but it still took a few minutes to calm down

The irony in all this is she told me to drop our kids off in the street or she would have me prosecuted for trespassing if I parked in her driveway while dropping them off .

Butforthegrace posted 3/31/2020 11:23 AM

But it scares me so much that for the past 6 months, he might already have had a clear sense of things being "different" at home.

You're being dishonest with yourself if you allow yourself the conceit of "might" in that context. There is absolutely no question whatsoever that he knows something is amiss, and he is probably confused because he knows this, but has no context since his parents are withholding the truth from him. If he is ASD, then this is even more difficult for him because empathy can be an issue for ASD individuals.

The best thing you can do for him, by far, is give him two separate, but healthy, homes to move between. Or, second best, two homes, one of which is healthy (yours), and one of which remains dishonest and dysfunctional (your WW's), that is still better than the third choice of one truly fucked up home that he can't escape from.

Edited later in the day:

Here is another thought, and I must admit that I've read your WW's posts in other forums, which have informed my thoughts. Both of you came here to SI in early/mid March, you asking a lot of the kinds of questions a BH asks in the throes of the first few months after Dday, and her suggesting -- to a forum of strangers to whom she owes nothing -- that she ended the A and went NC. The same fiction she was telling you.

Now, just a few weeks later, you are both back in the wake of the revelation that she has been carrying on with the AP the whole time, lying directly to your face about it.

You said you guys have been together since teenage years, and were first and onlies until her A.

I think that there is a very real question she needs to answer, which is: does she actually want to be married? I frame it that way on purpose. I've no doubt she has love for you. It would be difficult to be together for so long, and build a family, without some level of love. I also have no doubt that she wishes more than anything that there is a path for you to heal, even to the point of having some degree of empathy for your pain.

There isn't enough information in the threads for me to form an observation about whether she has sexual desire for you.

All of those things -- love, empathy, desire -- they are elements of a marriage. But alone they are not enough to sustain a marriage. Lots of people have love affairs, even deeply profound ones, without being married.

Marriage is an express commitment to a high degree of loyalty, fealty, honesty, intimacy, and, most important, monogamy, not just physical monogamy but also emotional monogamy. Your WW's actions smack of a person who does not wish to be bound to those high level promises. I don't mean that she doesn't want to be married to you. I mean, I don't think she wants to be married, period. My gut is that there is a voice inside of her wishing she had sown some wild oats, yearning for the chance to do it now as middle age threatens the end of her youthful vigor and attractiveness.

Her actions really can't be explained any other way, because I don't perceive that she is such a "fuck you" asshole to you, or harbors such deep contempt toward you, that she is simply doing what she is doing because of her low regard for you. Rather, I think her actions are telling you the truth about who she really is and what she really wants to be, which is a single woman.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:25 PM, March 31st (Tuesday)]

Incarnate posted 3/31/2020 16:42 PM

The problem with dying is that when you're dead, you're dead for the rest of your life.

Thats assuming I don't turn myself into some sort ofnultra-powerful undead wizard on the way out to terrorize my enemies from beyond the grasp of mortality.

Hey, a guy has to have goals, amirite?

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