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Betrayed Menz Thread - Part 34

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Brew3x posted 3/11/2020 17:55 PM

1) Take a few pieces of 8.5" x 11" paper and a pen or pencil.

2) Complete the sentence by hand (no typing): 'I'm angry/furious/enraged about ____' or 'I'm angry/furious/enraged that ____.'

3) Stop after 5 minutes, if you get that far


Sisoon: Iíll give it a try but how is this helpful.

LosferWords posted 3/11/2020 18:26 PM

Brew - if you can kinda take sisoon's advice and maybe write out your feelings in notepad or word, it kinda helps a lot, even if you don't send it to her. Seriously helps to get that shit out of your system. If she isn't a member here, get it out here. Vent, bro.

Machiavellia84 posted 3/12/2020 05:41 AM

Hi guys,

Regrettably checking in here to join the club noone wants to be in.

Anyway, I just am hoping so badly that I can get some help and advice from fellow guys here who have walked this path before, or are struggling with my same issues I'm facing.

To cut the long (and painful) story short, my wife had an affair with a colleague whilst on a work trip. It was over two nights, and after returning home it became a full-blown EA where there were endless sexting and making plans to leave their partners and start a life together blah blah blah.

By chance, we had a family vacation planned just a week or so after she came home, so they had no chances to hook up since. But obviously lots of secretive texts and calls DURING the vacation, which was extremely hurtful after finding out in retrospectively.

After returning from the vacation, she became distant and cold and just had so much disdain for her husband and son, feeling miserable being "trapped" etc. All the usual affair fog justifications/blame shifting.

For context, we knew each other since we were 15-16 years old. Been together our whole lives (20 yr relationship now).

After Dday, lots of gas lighting and what not. Took her 4 months before her "withdrawals" tapered off. 2 months ago she "woke up" from the fog. Has been (so far, I know it's early days and premature to judge) an "exemplary" WW that wants to make amends and get us to embark on reconciliation.

I probably don't need to go into details of just how much emotional and physical turmoil I've been through, and am currently still going through. But I'm having a lot of trouble coming to terms with the fact that my lifelong monogamous partner, with whom we were each other's sole sexual partner, has now had sex with someone else.

It seems like too huge a hurdle for my head to overcome. Through conversations I know for a fact the AP is taller, fitter, better-looking, and "bigger" than me. Overall she definitely didn't "affair down".

It's dealt a huge blow to me self esteem and the humiliation that's been heaped on me for the past 6 months has completely obliterated my ego and sense of self-worth and confidence. I feel utterly emasculated. And the pain and shame eats me alive.

We have been having sex post-affair, and it's just been a torture. I WANT it, she's not the one pressuring or pushing for sex, but when we do, the "facts" and the mind movies replaying on loop kills me inside. It affects my mojo and hence my er, performance, which then is a vicious cycle since it further deflates my nonexistent self esteem.

I desperately need to overcome this. I want to feel like a man again. My insecurity issues now has a giant spotlight being cast upon it with her affair, and I hate her so much for this.

Are there any tips or desperate actions you guys tried? If not, are there any suggestions that you yourself would want to or thought about trying?

This is just such a "sensitive" topic that is seldom openly discussed on the forums, I'm hoping I can get some discussion going on here.

Thanks a whole bunch in advance.

sisoon posted 3/12/2020 11:27 AM

Brew, Writing helps me get into my anger and helps express it, and I always end up laughing at myself when I find myself writing, 'I'm angry that it's too /hot/cold/humid/windy.'

It's just another healthy way of expressing anger, so if, say, a punching bag isn't helping, maybe writing will.

****
Losfer, Thanks for the kind words. For the record, I did a lot of therapy before d-day, which helped a lot.

How do you feel about filing? Sounds like a good step for you and your kids.

TheLostOne2020 posted 3/12/2020 12:12 PM

Machiavellia84

I'm sorry that you are going through this. It's a rough pill to swallow - my story is similar to yours, only I'm divorcing my WW. I don't think I can trust her and I really don't think she's capable of empathizing with me.

That said:

It seems like too huge a hurdle for my head to overcome. Through conversations I know for a fact the AP is taller, fitter, better-looking, and "bigger" than me. Overall she definitely didn't "affair down".

This is horseshit - the guy is at least morally questionable if he's going to break up a marriage.

We have been having sex post-affair, and it's just been a torture. I WANT it, she's not the one pressuring or pushing for sex, but when we do, the "facts" and the mind movies replaying on loop kills me inside. It affects my mojo and hence my er, performance, which then is a vicious cycle since it further deflates my nonexistent self esteem.

I think you need to talk to her about this. I listened to a Savage Lovecast recently and one of the guests on their said the research showed that women and men have different 'time frames' for when sex gets stale in a committed relationship. For women it's supposedly 1-4 years, for men it's upwards of 10 years. What that means is that you have to shake things up.

I'd ask why she's not pushing for sex, why she's not wanting it. Is it because it's stale? Some other factor? I don't think the 'taller, fitter, better-looking, or bigger' elements fall into the equation - she was having sex with you prior to this, right? At one point she was 'wanting it', correct?

Mr. Kite posted 3/12/2020 12:24 PM

How do I deal with the anger that is starting to build.

Express it in a constructive way. I tell my wife immediately if something triggers me or if she's ticking me off. It used to take me hours, days, or even weeks to get the anger off my chest. No more!

Through conversations I know for a fact the AP is taller, fitter, better-looking, and "bigger" than me. Overall she definitely didn't "affair down".

Wrong!!! She got involved with a selfish, childish man who has no morals whatsoever. The Karma bus will eventually come for him.

It's dealt a huge blow to me self esteem and the humiliation that's been heaped on me for the past 6 months has completely obliterated my ego and sense of self-worth and confidence. I feel utterly emasculated. And the pain and shame eats me alive.

What did you do that would obligate you to feel shame? The shame is not for you to carry but for them. Inside a WW's broken brain is a time bomb ready to go off triggered by any excuse they need to cheat. That's something that needs to be fixed over years of intensive counseling.

What you did or didn't do has nothing to do with your WW's brokenness. It was always there, only you didn't know it.

The emasculation part I went through as well but it turns out that I was the same man during my wife's A's and I'm the same man after. She did not emasculate me except in my mind, which I've finally figured out and overcome.

After my WW's A's I had a child to raise and that focused me away from destructive thoughts. Find something to do that you love. Maybe something you've been neglecting. When the mind movies start or your brain begins racing with anger, fear, and shame, plunge yourself into something that will cause you to refocus.

Over time the mind movies will fade, your self esteem will return, and your hatred and anger will fade away. Are you in individual counseling? If not, that's a good start. Having someone to talk to about this trauma is invaluable.

Mr. Kite posted 3/12/2020 12:32 PM

The rescue Beagle was adopted yesterday and brought home from Pittsburgh. His name will stay Hank because I came to the conclusion that changing his name would lead to more confusion for him.

He's asleep on the couch next to me. The hour long walk in the woods this morning plus a couple of hours of chasing his squeaky tennis ball in the backyard did him in.

He'll be two in July and has been living in an apartment with little exercise or play time. The result is that he's overweight by at least 20 pounds. A vet's appointment has been scheduled for next week and a training session for two weeks from now.

Getting some sleep was tough last night but he'll hopefully settle into a routine eventually.

Machiavellia84 posted 3/12/2020 22:18 PM

ThrLostOne2020

Thanks for taking the thanks to reply me. Appreciate it.

I'm sorry that you are going through this. It's a rough pill to swallow - my story is similar to yours, only I'm divorcing my WW. I don't think I can trust her and I really don't think she's capable of empathizing with me.

I can't trust my WW as well. Since discovering the affair and all the lies that came with the territory during which... it's traumatic to say the least. To make matters worse, she outright, very blatantly, without remorse, lied a few more times during the 4 months after D-Day.

I was very wrongly being patient and kind to her post D-Day and she took advantage of it, took me for granted, and ended up treating me as a doormat. Trust me I have resentment issues from that period of time, for her, and for myself - for "enabling".

It was only since Jan this year before she snapped out of her self-entitled shit and is now pledging to work on herself, work on us, promising to make amends for as long as it takes, wanting to regain my trust and love, etc etc.

So.. time will tell if she ever deserves any kind of trust or forgiveness from me.


This is horseshit - the guy is at least morally questionable if he's going to break up a marriage.

I know this. Especially since I've lived my life with a strong moral compass, always having high expectations of myself to be a "good guy", I know for a fact that dipshit has got nothing on me character wise.

But is this the only coping mechanism I have as a BH? To attempt to overlook/ignore how he is physically superior than me? I'm just asking because I know it's not something to focus on, but as men, I figured this might resonate amongst some of you here - how the "comparison" issue can be a big obstacle.


I'd ask why she's not pushing for sex, why she's not wanting it. Is it because it's stale? Some other factor? I don't think the 'taller, fitter, better-looking, or bigger' elements fall into the equation - she was having sex with you prior to this, right? At one point she was 'wanting it', correct?

Sorry for causing the misunderstanding here. When I said she wasn't pushing, I meant she isn't pressuring us to have sex because she knows the demons that plague me. She understands how difficult it is for me and how I might not be able to do it. She's been very keen, very eager, very patient in the bedroom past the last couple of months (after coming out of the "fog"). Prior to that, it was bad.

She is trying to say all the right things now - that he's not "better" than me. That she wants me, not him. She doesn't think of him or miss him at all, esp not during sex. She is trying to reassure me, trying to somehow rebuild my confidence and self-esteem.

But we are both failing badly at mitigating my "comparison" issues. I know I'm inferior, in terms of equipment size. How the hell can I not feel so, when she had an affair?

Sighs.

Machiavellia84 posted 3/12/2020 22:36 PM

Mr.Kite

Thank you for replying.

Wrong!!! She got involved with a selfish, childish man who has no morals whatsoever. The Karma bus will eventually come for him.

I'm not so sure about the karma bus. I was a strong believer of it, before. But after the affair... I've lost all hope in karma. Yeah, just a bitter and callous outlook on life now.

And I agree. They are childish, selfish, amoral, despicable people for their actions. Behaviour and decisions that has inflicted insurmountable pain. I know I'm a better person, by miles.

The thing that haunts me is the physical aspect. Knowing how he looks like, knowing the differences in our... attributes.. it's a hard pill to swallow. It's just the cherry on top of the shit sundae.

I'm asking here because I know it's a big obstacle to our R process. The humiliation that I've been made to feel for so long now, it's literally preventing me from embarking on R.


What did you do that would obligate you to feel shame? The shame is not for you to carry but for them. Inside a WW's broken brain is a time bomb ready to go off triggered by any excuse they need to cheat. That's something that needs to be fixed over years of intensive counseling.

What you did or didn't do has nothing to do with your WW's brokenness. It was always there, only you didn't know it.


Thanks for this. I have read this sentiment being expressed on many threads. Have come across this on many books and articles.

But it's a really good anchoring reminder to help me cope with the shame factor. Thank you.


The emasculation part I went through as well but it turns out that I was the same man during my wife's A's and I'm the same man after. She did not emasculate me except in my mind, which I've finally figured out and overcome.

Is this mental gymnastics? I mean no disrespect nor offense here, I'm just trying desperately to figure out how to move forward.

Is that what we BH have to resort to? Is this our only coping mechanism? To rewire ourself to view the emasculation differently?

It's always good to hear that with time the anger will fade. So many have said so. It takes time. So in meanwhile, before that happens, am I supposed to just... be actively distracting myself? Is there anything that my wife can do, anything I can do, that can alleviate the pain and humiliation I feel? Anything that can accelerate the time taken for the feelings to fade? Or if not, anything that can serve as a morphine shot to just have a reprieve from this agony?

My wife knows by now I am really struggling with the humiliation. She wants to help, but she doesn't really know what to do. I want to be free-er (less tortured) by the humiliation she done to me too, but I too don't know what she can do.

Feeling increasingly helpless.

TheLostOne2020 posted 3/13/2020 07:30 AM

Machiavellia84

Thanks for taking the thanks to reply me. Appreciate it.

Hey man, we are all in the shit together, you're welcome.

I can't trust my WW as well. Since discovering the affair and all the lies that came with the territory during which... it's traumatic to say the least. To make matters worse, she outright, very blatantly, without remorse, lied a few more times during the 4 months after D-Day.

Dude, I'm right there with you - I over heard my wife on the phone with her AP telling him that he's the only thing that makes her happy and that if she stayed with me it'd be for 6-8 years of a sexless marriage (I guess my needs don't matter). I confronted her about this and she said that she meant he made her happy sexually.

Yeah, that helps, okay, were cool. LOL, the fuck was she thinking?

I was very wrongly being patient and kind to her post D-Day and she took advantage of it, took me for granted, and ended up treating me as a doormat. Trust me I have resentment issues from that period of time, for her, and for myself - for "enabling".

I've probably been nicer than I should have, however I've started the divorce process and I have not wavered from it at all. I'm in VA, so the process is slow, but it marches on. I suggest you do the same. Then if you stumble and 'enable her' or whatever, you are still on your path for getting out of this shit hole of Hell.

It was only since Jan this year before she snapped out of her self-entitled shit and is now pledging to work on herself, work on us, promising to make amends for as long as it takes, wanting to regain my trust and love, etc etc.

So.. time will tell if she ever deserves any kind of trust or forgiveness from me.

Honestly dude, I don't know - in my opinion you might be caught up in 'winning her back'. You might be caught up in the fantasy that things will go back to normal. They will not. If you stay with her you are in for years of Hell.

Now, if you feel it's worth it, that you can trust her, then go right ahead.

I know this. Especially since I've lived my life with a strong moral compass, always having high expectations of myself to be a "good guy", I know for a fact that dipshit has got nothing on me character wise.

Then what else matters? Everything else is ephemeral.

But is this the only coping mechanism I have as a BH? To attempt to overlook/ignore how he is physically superior than me? I'm just asking because I know it's not something to focus on, but as men, I figured this might resonate amongst some of you here - how the "comparison" issue can be a big obstacle.

No, not at all. Look at it this way, there are tons of people who are physically superior to both you and I - this isn't a contest. The most physically superior person doesn't get the best wife or the best life or whatever. It's not you versus him and if your wife is making you feel that way, then you choose NOT to be with her because that's bullshit.

That's monkey branching - finding the best partner at the time and then moving on when you perceive a better one coming along. Does such a mindset foster deep love? No, because you are always holding out for something better.

IF THAT'S what you think of your wife, then you need to ditch her. Seriously. This will haunt you - it's not about him, it's about her.

Sorry for causing the misunderstanding here. When I said she wasn't pushing, I meant she isn't pressuring us to have sex because she knows the demons that plague me. She understands how difficult it is for me and how I might not be able to do it. She's been very keen, very eager, very patient in the bedroom past the last couple of months (after coming out of the "fog"). Prior to that, it was bad.

Okay that sounds good - I wouldn't expect sex to be great right after such a massive betrayal.

She is trying to say all the right things now - that he's not "better" than me. That she wants me, not him. She doesn't think of him or miss him at all, esp not during sex. She is trying to reassure me, trying to somehow rebuild my confidence and self-esteem.

My wife tries to say the right things now, to get me to stay. Saying shit doesn't matter. It's her actions. You need to emphasize this to her and make her understand that she needs to reassure you by doing more than just talking about it. I'm not suggesting just sexual stuff - I'm saying stuff in general to make you feel appreciated, desired, respected, and loved. This is so much more than just sex.

But we are both failing badly at mitigating my "comparison" issues. I know I'm inferior, in terms of equipment size. How the hell can I not feel so, when she had an affair?

Sighs.

Dude, you are not inferior. Is she able to have orgasms with you? I would guess yes. I would guess that this isn't about dick size. You can wow her through variation, technique, and a whole host of other things. Be adventurous. Be different. Try out your fantasies - try out hers.

TheLostOne2020 posted 3/13/2020 07:34 AM

Machiavellia84

I'm not so sure about the karma bus. I was a strong believer of it, before. But after the affair... I've lost all hope in karma. Yeah, just a bitter and callous outlook on life now.

And I agree. They are childish, selfish, amoral, despicable people for their actions. Behaviour and decisions that has inflicted insurmountable pain. I know I'm a better person, by miles.

Dude, let me ask you this - are you comfortable with hurting people? Are you comfortable with breaking up a marriage or a relationship? Would the idea that you've wreck someone's life haunt you?

I'd guess it would - I know I wouldn't want to live with that on my shoulders. These people - the AP and the WW have to live with that. If they are immoral soulless pieces of garbage who don't care about that, then who cares? It's like looking at the Nazi's who had no remorse for the despicable things they did - are you losing sleep because they didn't regret their actions?

No, because they are pieces of shit. You do not compare yourself with a piece of shit.

IF they do regret their actions and regret ruining a family/marriage - then that's something they have to live with forever. Your wife will have to live with that. This AP will have to live with that.

LosferWords posted 3/13/2020 09:35 AM

Losfer, Thanks for the kind words. For the record, I did a lot of therapy before d-day, which helped a lot.

Of course. I highly respect and value your input, and I have agreed with a large percentage of your viewpoint. I love the fact that you are very open and genuine. Therapy is highly underrated! I could have used it before d-day. I have nine years of therapy under my belt now. It's a good thing.

How do you feel about filing? Sounds like a good step for you and your kids.

I just have the one son, and I think it's a positive thing. I wasn't expecting the emotional roller coaster that came with filing, though. Since leaving her, I don't think I've had much time to properly grieve the relationship, and I think that's what's happening now. I mean... I married her for a reason. That reason was to stay with her for life, not go through this shit, try to reconcile, and then divorce. At the same time, it's the healthiest thing for me, my son, and for her. Despite everything, I will always love her and care about her. I wish her nothing but happiness and health.

LosferWords posted 3/13/2020 09:42 AM

Mr. Kite - Congrats on the new family addition! Hank sounds cool as hell. Truly happy for you, sir.

LosferWords posted 3/13/2020 09:51 AM

Machiavellia84 - I am feeling your pain, and I think you are getting some great advice here. Ultimately, you are the one that gets to call the shots. Take the information you need, apply it how you see fit, and leave the rest. In my case, I had to try to reconcile. My wife was willing to work on things, and I felt the need to try to do my best to heal the marriage. It didn't work out. There are a lot of success stories here about reconciliation, and a lot of tried-and-it-didn't-work stories, and a lot of people just leaving right off the bat. You need to do what's right for you. I guess my only advice is to be cognizant of your mental health, and to advocate for yourself. You have a voice. Speak up for yourself. You've got this, brother. We are here for you no matter what path you take, and whatever successes and failures you have. Just be true to yourself. That's what makes a man a man, and you are a good one.

LosferWords posted 3/13/2020 09:57 AM

No, because they are pieces of shit. You do not compare yourself with a piece of shit.

TheLostOne2020 - I'm putting that one on my mental corkboard. That is actually really awesome advice, and I could have used it in my early days after d-day.

Mr. Kite posted 3/13/2020 11:47 AM

Mr. Kite - Congrats on the new family addition! Hank sounds cool as hell. Truly happy for you, sir.

Losfer, thank you as always for your kind words. I'm beginning to suspect that the dog is not a pure Beagle due to his green eyes and weighing around 60 lbs. Then there is his strength which almost allowed him to pull me into a lake this morning when he spotted some geese.

Machiavellia84

The thing that haunts me is the physical aspect. Knowing how he looks like, knowing the differences in our... attributes.. it's a hard pill to swallow. It's just the cherry on top of the shit sundae.

I'm asking here because I know it's a big obstacle to our R process. The humiliation that I've been made to feel for so long now, it's literally preventing me from embarking on R.

Is this mental gymnastics? I mean no disrespect nor offense here, I'm just trying desperately to figure out how to move forward.

Is that what we BH have to resort to? Is this our only coping mechanism? To rewire ourself to view the emasculation differently?

I prefer the term "rethink." My wife's A's forced me to rethink or reevaluate what it means to be a man. Is a real man defined by how handsome he is, how big his dick is, and by how much power and wealth he's amassed? If so, I'm in big trouble.

The bad information I received by being raised by parents who didn't have a clue on how to raise a boy, the immature people who I worked with and hung around with, and too many years of watching porn is what led to me to believe I was sorely lacking in all areas.

It turns out that I'm a good, decent man and that my wife would have screwed any guy at that point in her life due to the faulty wiring in her brain.

For a long time what she did I took as a reflection on me and some lack on my part. WRONG!!! This is what hurt me deeply for years and caused those mind movies to drive me crazy. I've learned to value myself and to say "N0!" when those thoughts come to me.

You're early on in this trauma and make no mistake about it, you've been traumatized and deeply wounded. So now what? Stay here with us and continue to post and read. Get yourself into individual counseling so you can get this stuff off your chest. Over time this will get easier to deal with,

LosferWords posted 3/13/2020 11:59 AM

I'm beginning to suspect that the dog is not a pure Beagle due to his green eyes and weighing around 60 lbs. Then there is his strength which almost allowed him to pull me into a lake this morning when he spotted some geese.

Mr. K, that is freaking awesome! Whatever breed he is, he is what you need in this moment! I think that's fantastic, and also funny.

I prefer the term "rethink."

I prefer to use the word "reframe", but that is due to my cognitive behavioral therapy. Mr. Kite is 100% spot on though, whatever word you choose to use. He made some really excellent points, and I agree with everything he said.

The bottom line is, you're a good man with integrity. The fact that you are sharing shit here and reaching out makes me respect you all that much more. You've got this, and you aren't alone, sir.

TheLostOne2020 posted 3/13/2020 12:19 PM

LosferWords

TheLostOne2020 - I'm putting that one on my mental corkboard. That is actually really awesome advice, and I could have used it in my early days after d-day.

No problem. People who lack empathy for other people and who do not care about the destruction they create are awful people, full stop.

Mr. Kite

It turns out that I'm a good, decent man and that my wife would have screwed any guy at that point in her life due to the faulty wiring in her brain.

This is true.

The WW will try to shift the blame onto the BS if they can, because they know the actions they did were completely shitty and a horrible reflection on their character.

LosferWords posted 3/13/2020 16:00 PM

People who lack empathy for other people and who do not care about the destruction they create are awful people, full stop.

I totally agree. How are you doing?

sisoon posted 3/13/2020 16:45 PM

Is that what we BH have to resort to? Is this our only coping mechanism? To rewire ourself to view the emasculation differently?
I think recovering from infidelity sometime requires lots of rewiring. We grow up with many contradictions in our thinking because of the many contradictions in conventional 'wisdom.' Healing requires us to figure out for ourselves what we think about questions that weren't relevant until we find ourselves to be BHes.

For example, many BSes assume they'll cut a cheater out of their lives without delay. They're shocked to find themselves considering R.

Life is constant rewiring, as one gets new info.

As for emasculation, it's hard to avoid it completely when betrayed by one's W, but the fact is a W's cheating says virtually nothing about the BS. It's natural to fear that something is very wrong with oneself after being betrayed, but the BS is the same person before d-day and after - that is, perhaps, same strengths and weaknesses, same capabilities....

*****

The affair-down thing makes a lot of sense to me. The hardest part was that I admired some of my W's attributes. I wanted to be like her in her intellectual abilities. But ow affaired down, too, with the person I admired. So I no longer admire her quite as much as I used to. That's another type of rewiring.

*****

If I had a choice between having a bigger dick and being a musician, I'd choose being a musician, even though I've never been one for practicing.

*****

Congratulations on your beagle, Mr.Kite. Sounds like the 2 of you are building a good relationship, and quickly, too.

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