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Iíve lost it all and I donít even know how it started

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Justsomelady posted 9/7/2019 09:25 AM

Keep trying with him and doing all you can to be loving to him. I agree leave him alone if he says so but it sounds like he is hot and cold and pushes and pulls, changing his mind...so in that case I wouldnít give up and would keep offering opportunities for connection (talking, physicallly, cooking his favorite things, ironing etc and quietly doing things and offering service that make his life easier), and let him say no or yes.

Sending strength for healing whatever the outcome.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 9:28 AM, September 7th (Saturday)]

QuietDan posted 9/7/2019 12:48 PM

When he pulls away, he might be testing to see if you are willing to pursue him. Perhaps you might consider steadily pursuing him, even when he dustance himself sometimes, until he tells you not to and that he needs you to stay away for awhile.

hatefulnow posted 9/8/2019 01:36 AM

When the truth came out about my XWW affair I was mean and evil, but time mellowed things. We divorced, but are dating a a couple. It hasn't been easy but very worth it. You can recover.

DON'T QUIT

As far as your boss is concerned...#metoo

Itsallmyfault posted 9/8/2019 14:24 PM

@Justsomelady
Thank you. I am trying to find the balance of leaving him alone. He's moved out so we don't get much time together for me to show affection, offer opportunities for affection. But he came over to see the kids and ended up staying for couple nights. Seemed like he didn't want anything from me at first so just stayed at a distance, but by the time he left we had had some really wonderful moments together and he let me give him affection, intimacy and generally had a really nice time in eachothers company, with the kids and after they went to bed . I don't know if he will ever want to give this another chance. I don't think even he knows right now. But trying to find new perspective that every moment with him is a blessing, to still be able to be how we are after everything i know is more than i deserve. We hit rock bottom, the only way from here is up, whether that be friends, or more, or I give him the chance to live his life now, find someone new, and be happy for him. Just going to take it one day at a time and try and help him heal when he wants me to, and give him respectful space when he doesn't.


@QuietDan
Yes it does seem so, he pulled away at start of weekend but i tested the waters to see if he would tell me to stop, but he didn't, and he seemed genuinely happy for my efforts, and we reconnected for a short while. Which I think we both needed. I'll do everything I can to give him what he needs from me without pushing too far and pissing him off!

@hatefulnow
Thanks for sharing how it was with you. When the truth came out, we attempted to just keep relationship going, live together - he left for one afternoon and was back by night after everything came out, we really did try to continue like normal, besides our nights of talking things through. I know now that didn't help us, it didn't allow him time to process everything. I think a year of him not really processing it didn't give him a chance for that anger. I saw the hatred on his face the day before he packed a bag and left, and it really showed how much he had been keeping in. I wish he felt like he could scream at me, call me names, hate me, so he didn't end up keeping it all in until it over flowed. The anger came out when he left, and just after. He said things he hadn't said in that whole year. Things he deserved to get off his chest, things I deserved to hear. I hope this split will allow him to actually allow those feelings. It feels like he's slowly coming back at the moment. I will continue being there for him and no, i don't plan on quitting. I told him when we were having a nice moment together that I will wait for him for the rest of my life. I really mean it.
And as far as my boss, I'm going to carry on working through what he did to me in IC. I'm feeling more strong now and i dont blame myself for him raping me like i once did, only my actions in the mess afterwards. Strong enough to get justice for myself, and out him for what he really is, I need to try to prevent him doing this to anyone else. He has 100's of young naive and impressionable girls working for him. And the fact i know i wasn't the first this happened to - and her story was similar to mine (got her drinking stupid amounts, potentially drugged, blacked out, he told her and the police it was "consensual" makes me skin crawl he probably would and could do this again.

Itsallmyfault posted 9/15/2019 06:36 AM

Update:
Still broken up. Heís still moved our. Iím doing good in counselling and starting to get to deeper issues I had going on. Things that were fucked up in me.
Heís told me he doesnít want to lead me on or make things complicated. But he stayed last night to see the kids and ended up asking to sleep in bed with me.
He said afterwards he doesnít want to confuse me. So I guess Iím just looking for an outsider perspective, do I let him get what he needs for me while he figures out what he wants? Iím trying to do whatever helps him feel safe and that I really do love him. We spoke about the split being what we need. He wants space. I need time to start getting strength and fix myself.

But we keep doing this where we end up back together in these moments. Normally when heís back home at the weekend, but I know during week heís going for dinner and drinks with his single female friend who heís had many nights with with them together going out, being with each other in hotel rooms when we were in R ((I know this jealousy is so fucking hypocritical no need for a 2x4 here)) and then he doesnít like to speak to me most days. Am I hurting our chance for recovering as two separate individuals by refusing to want to give up or let go?

I just miss him and love him and Iím so furious I let this happen to us. It really did take going through what we did to fall in love with him so fiercely like I should have all along. It took falling apart to fall back together and the last year we had together after D-day has been the best of our whole ten years. We both agree here. I just hate that we found it all when it was too lte and Iíd already destroyed it before we really gave it our best. Before I learned to put him before myself.

Itsallmyfault posted 9/26/2019 05:43 AM

Just want to thank the amazing admin for pulling me back in to my new safe place after I decided to go awoll and just hate myself again

Relationship is over for good. We had a few intimate amazing and lovely albeit confusing moments, he was sleeping with me, telling me to visit him, laughing joking and watching movies with me in his arms, but he told me it was because he was trying to be supportive and sympathetic that I still wanted the relationship but he didnít. Weíre currently drawing up a list of boundaries going forward because even though I know I hurt him, I canít let him use for me sex when he doesnít want me anymore. Especially when this whole fucking thing started by sexual abuse. Iíve got to start looking at my body as my own, and not some disposable sack of skin for a man to have fun with. Self worth issues : still working on it 😵

But I still want to stay here. To continue hearing your stories, learning and understanding what itís like from the other side of infidelity. To support anyone who needs it like I did. A lot of these responses previously were really helpful to me so why would I leave? I want to be that person to someone else on here one day

Thank you all again for the soft, stern, supportive messages

Jsmart posted 9/26/2019 06:23 AM

Weíre currently drawing up a list of boundaries going forward because even though I know I hurt him, I canít let him use for me sex when he doesnít want me anymore. Especially when this whole fucking thing started by sexual abuse. Iíve got to start looking at my body as my own, and not some disposable sack of skin for a man to have fun with. Self worth issues : still working on it

Your STBXBH obviously still loves you. That's why he's spending time with you. He's just not yet willing to accept that he still loves you and doesn't want to lose you. He needs time to observer you. See if you're just going to run wild. He also needs to get out with other women to "even the scales."

As for him using you, Do you really think your vagina is the only one he can get access to? Like I said above, he getting with you out of love. This is nothing like the disgusting affair you had with your old boss. How you could put the having sex with the father of your kids and your boss on the same catagory is crazy.

Justsomelady posted 9/26/2019 07:27 AM

Yeah, I also question whether it is using your body - he is trying to connect with you but is hurting and doesnít know what he wants long term. I think if you want to try to reconcile you should encourage any avenues of connection.

Boundaries - within the bounds of respect for you and what you can handle - should really come from the BS and the WS should do all they can to help with the BSís healing. I am not saying you should be putting out if you donít want to, but I do think it is interesting you are cutting off such a powerful form of connection from the person you wronged - and the avenue of connection he is capable of right now. He is not your AP. He doesnít see you as a vagina. It actually makes sense he would feel able to connect to you physically because all the emotional trauma is too much, he canít go there right now. He is doing what he can. I think it is loving and compassionate to respond to him and allow this connection, and follow where it leads as you heal and show him how you can be safe.

When you say sack of skin - thatís is how the rapist used you and then you eventually became your own additional tormenter by going down the misguided affair rabbit hole in a trauma-haze-filled attempt to reclaim some agency. It sounds like this is anger and frustration about that and at yourself. It does not belong on your husbandís shoulders.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 7:36 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]

Itsallmyfault posted 9/26/2019 07:35 AM

I get it guys that was poorly worded on my part. The confusion for me is him saying he doesnít want me. Doesnít want R. Doesnít want to ever get back together. That he was sleeping with me out of sympathy of knowing I still want him and him saying he only did it because of that.

I just donít know whatís good or right anymore. Heís not my AP. He didnít abuse me. I abused him. But then I just canít handle these emotions of him sleeping with me saying it shouldnít have happened and then leaving. Then wanting to do it all over again a week later then saying weíre done forever and canít even be friends

I donít mean to sound like a c**t about it Iím just a bit lost and confused

I want him to heal in whatever ways necessary. Iím having issues with how I feel about myself sexually with opening up wounds and yes think youíre right that this is more of a reflection of myself than how I feel about him.

Right now he said he wants to stop any of that (sex) and not ever revisit it again. That thatís a clear boundary we donít cross now. So now I feel like I should be offering that we can have non commitment sex if thatís what was helping him connect to me? I donít know......

[This message edited by Itsallmyfault at 7:43 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]

Justsomelady posted 9/26/2019 07:38 AM

Hugs. You arenít a c*nt. Have compassion for yourself.

Sure, that has to do a number on your heart and your mind. It could be this isnít something you can do and it just had to be a total split. A deal breaker.

However, I donít believe it is sympathy from him, he is angry so saying that. He is telling himself that to justify why he is over there, he isnít really talking to you he is talking to himself.

But if you can, I think he is returning to you because deep down he does want to try - but he has cognitive dissonance because in his mind infidelity is a deal breaker. But maybe with time he can see it isnít. As you connect it could lead to a new path forward. This is what he can offer you right now, and it confuses him too. I say go with it and re-apologize and reassure him each time that you love him - even if he still lashes out. Let him know you respect any decision he makes long term but right now you want to connect with him however he feels able. But I do understand your decision either way.

Regarding non commitment sex, up to you. I actually donít believe that is what it is as you are both entwined already. I believe that is just what he needs to hear or tell himself to keep a connection with you going. And he is letting you know he may not be able to get over this...but for now he is deep down still connected to you and there may be a slim chance yet.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 8:04 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]

Lifeitself posted 9/26/2019 08:04 AM

Jsmart nailed. Your affair started by abuse. It is completely different from your bonding with H post separation. And I agree he still loves you he just canít forgive you (yet). I wouldnít throw the towel this early and keep walking by his side even if it goes to D. Good luck itsalyfault, I know itís annoying he canít foegive you but please donít give up yet.

[This message edited by Lifeitself at 10:51 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]

Itsallmyfault posted 9/26/2019 08:34 AM

Isnít it crazy how strangers on the internet can see things I couldnít see right in front of my eyes in reality.

Reading the responses about XBH wanting to spend time with me, reconnect physically etc made me feel awful for feeling like he was using me rather than holding out a branch for us to find something together. Maybe Iím too close to see things for what they are. So I thought positively and reached out, apologised and heís just said he didnít mean the sympathy comment. That the reason heís been wanting that intimacy is because he does still care. That we are still ďusĒ inside.

I question how did I ever hurt his amazing man and how even now i donít always understand his love.

Iíll take the advice on board. Iíll let him process this in his own way. Heís gotta walk his life without me to heal. I want him to know that he is either actually happier with me after everything, or find that heís happier without me and the pain and move on and be loved and have a great life. Whatever he needs. If he wants to reconnect I will be here waiting. Waiting and fixing my fuckedupness.

SlapNutsABingo posted 9/26/2019 08:59 AM

I don't understand how if two people are TRULY trying to reconnect and reconcile, that one of the people involved is sleeping with another person during this. I mean its damn hard to reconcile anyway, as is most attempts fail. Adding this element just seems like more wrenches being throw into an already fragile cog. I understand the hypocrisy of the situation but doesn't reconciliation take total commitment from both involved? Could some more qualified than I shed some light on this?

Dumb guy advice....

Itsallmyfault posted 9/26/2019 09:18 AM

@SNAB
I donít know for sure that he was sleeping with someone else in R period. Only thing confirmed is the going to her hotel room/her coming to his, dinner with her and going out drinking together. He denied anything more. I have to believe that and even in those moments I donít - who am I to call him out on infidelity. If I want him to one day have some understanding that my own trauma contributed to my decision to have an A, then surely, I must consider the trauma of my infidelity to be a contributing factor to him ďstrayingĒ. Well thatís how I feel and why there hasnít been much action on what he was doing besides me saying it made me jealous and uncomfortable but accepting the hypocrisy of me feeling that way. I donít know. On the flip side he used to do this kind of thing before we were R, before rape/A so perhaps just in his nature to do suspicious stuff. Itís not my place anymore to make myself the victim to his choices I have no moral high ground whatsoever

Lifeitself posted 9/26/2019 10:56 AM

Itsallmyfault, I guess best to think the worst case scenario: if you confirmed he had intimacy with her in the hotel room (I think he did, two adults wouldnít play chess in a hotel room...) and wanted to come back, would you still take him back?

[This message edited by Lifeitself at 10:57 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]

Justsomelady posted 9/26/2019 11:19 AM

I agree, something definitely happened in that hotel scenario. I am sorry I missed that part of the thread Iím jumping back in later. That may be something to discuss for boundaries going forward. If you are trying to reconcile you are fully within your rights to ask he end that and other outside relationships so you both can focus and heal.

Ganondorf posted 9/26/2019 12:22 PM

Reading your story, while I can't understand the depth of your pain, for a moment I was able to feel a part of it.

I hope this simple act of empathy eases your burden a tiny bit.

I truly hope you can find happiness again. I think we all give up at times, but I hope you can persevere.

Jsmart posted 9/26/2019 12:55 PM

I'm glad that you can see that he still cares for you. When he lashes out or says something hurtful, it's because he's not only angry at what you did but he's angry at himself for still loving you. Even if he hooks up with some other woman a few times, you're the woman he loves. You're the ONLY woman on the planet that he can unbreak his family with.

Some seem to be making a big deal about him hooking up with some woman at her hotel room. As a man, I got tell you, he needs this to even the scale. Think back on how many times you had sex with and also fooled around with your old boss? Him getting with this woman a few times still won't even the scales because you also had emotional connection with your AP. This woman means nothing to him. How do I know? Because even though he's experiencing the excitement of a new woman, it's you he still wants.

[This message edited by Jsmart at 1:13 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]

Itsallmyfault posted 9/26/2019 14:19 PM

I guess best to think the worst case scenario: if you confirmed he had intimacy with her in the hotel room (I think he did, two adults wouldnít play chess in a hotel room...) and wanted to come back, would you still take him back?

Yes. Because while I want to whole heartedly believe nothing happened, he told me he was with a group of friends, when actually he was just with her and i found out by a receipt from their night together, he lied at first and said they didn't end up in her room, and only when i told him i knew he did, did he admit to it. I know from experience you lie about this shit when there's more to it. I've been there. I wear the T-Shirt of the BETRAYER. So yes, sometimes I really do think something more happened during these couple of nights he spent with her. He told me they spoke about her partner cheating on her, about me cheating on him prior to ending up in her room. I'm glad he found someone he can talk to. And yes, I forgive it and would take him back if he did decide to one day come back to me. But only if things with them were over, the same as i'm sure as shit he wouldn't want to take me back if I was still talking to and seeing AP. I think that's fair?

I agree, something definitely happened in that hotel scenario. I am sorry I missed that part of the thread Iím jumping back in later. That may be something to discuss for boundaries going forward. If you are trying to reconcile you are fully within your rights to ask he end that and other outside relationships so you both can focus and heal.

Yes as above, that would be a conversation we'd need to have if we are truly trying to commit. He can have his fun with her for now if that's what he needs, I have no right to feel negatively towards this right now as he has officially ended things.

Reading your story, while I can't understand the depth of your pain, for a moment I was able to feel a part of it.
I hope this simple act of empathy eases your burden a tiny bit.

I truly hope you can find happiness again. I think we all give up at times, but I hope you can persevere.


Thank you. I really do appreciate you taking the time to read through, and leave a supportive kind message. :)


Some seem to be making a big deal about him hooking up with some woman at her hotel room. As a man, I got tell you, he needs this to even the scale. Think back on how many times you had sex with and also fooled around with your old boss? Him getting with this woman a few times still won't even the scales because you also had emotional connection with your AP. This woman means nothing to him. How do I know? Because even though he's experiencing the excitement of a new woman, it's you he still wants.

I get it, I guess as we were still together and as a couple it can be seen as revenge affair, or infidelity of it's own betrayal. I can't sit here and pretend it didn't sting when I found out about the hotel room situation, but as I said before, I have no moral high ground, I don't really have a leg to stand on. I felt like I was in my right to voice my insecurities about it, but wasn't in my right to turn to feeling like a BS, because, even though we were together, he was hurting. His pride was probably hurting. He probably wanted to hurt me back. I even told him afterwards that I was glad he had found this woman to confide in and talk to. It did hurt that he could be open and emotional with her so quickly, and he's struggled for a decade to open up or communicate with me further than daily plans and stuff about kids. But also maybe it shows progress for himself that he found himself being able to talk to someone. and I'm happy for him that he had that. Thanks for the male perspective on this!


[This message edited by Itsallmyfault at 2:20 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]

leavingorbit posted 9/26/2019 14:32 PM

IAMF, Iíve been reading along with your story. Iím not that far out in this journey and thankfully my BH has decided to attempt to reconcile. Iíve been talking your thread over with my husband and he encouraged me to share our story.

Your experience resonates with me. I slept with my rapist and former abuser almost three years ago, after the funeral of a mutual friend. I then lied to my BH about it for 1.5 years. while occasionally reaching out to my rapist via text message. It was the most destructive decision I had ever made in a lifetime of destructive decisions. I had an extensive history of shit - early CSA, FOO crud, you name it. I ran away from my BH- my high school sweetheart from 14 on- and chased down all the bad stuff I could to supposedly escape. Sex, drinking, drugs, moving to Texas for no reason. For years prior to sleeping with my rapist, I ran and ran. My philosophy was: deal with my issues? What issues? And if they do exist, well, theyíre not my fault, so YOU deal with my entrenched victimhood. All of that avoidance and pain and anger that I chose? Right back to my rapist. I broke my husbandís heart. And sleeping with my rapist, after representing to my BH that I had finally gotten my shit together and we should get married, was the cherry on top.

In my selfish refusal to turn and handle the mountain of rot behind me, I disregarded and actively disrespected the man who I claimed to love. That was a lie, too, or at the very least a gross misrepresentation. What I showed him wasnít loving. It was a denial of his agency. It was more grasping for control. It was casting him as the villain in my own story. And for what? I struggle for self compassion, because my actions are so senseless and selfish. I know they have explanations and not excuses, and yet I kick out at even explanations. Whys are only good to keep me aware and working on myself for the rest of my life. I hurt my BH, who I said was my best friend and promised to value, protect, love. I didnít know what those damn things were or maybe more truthfully, I didnít ever bother to develop better understanding. My pain was more important.

Hereís the tricky part. My BH and I are madhatters. Our mutual and final discovery was 9 months ago. Weíve known each other for half our lives. Weíve taken some breaks from each other but we always end up trying again. We told ourselves fictions about each other, long-suffering ones. I had him on a pedestal. He was perfect and loving and a martyr to my supreme fucked upness. He was a golden child and I was a pile of dirt. So when I found out about his extensive habit of getting pictures on Snapchat, I was floored. What! But he was pristine! Surely, the explanation must be my fault. I donít deserve any better. And that was pretty convenient for my husband. He was absolutely hurt and angry. He could blame everything on me and I could fix it. I was the screw up. My BH was just hurting and needed to boost his confidence. What right did I have to ask for anything else?

Well, I did have a right. And more importantly, to truly love and care for my BH, I could flex my newly developing compassion and empathy. I could understand that I had given him a lot to cope with, and understand that how he coped was not on me. And so much to cope with!

I love my husband. He blamed his choices on me for a long time and that was really fucking hard. It fed a lot of shame. I had engaged in a lot of justifying and victimhood, too. Our relationship didnít start to improve until I stood up for myself and started working on my codependency. Risking the marriage to save it, I guess? Because when I started to get healthy, one of the first things I worked through was that itís not up to other people to save or fix us. This lesson was really difficult for both of us. My husband just recently started digging into his own individual trauma, which is extensive, too. Itís been a long road but weíre starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

My husband and I caused each other a lot of heartache in our attempts to fix our relationship. Hurt people hurt people, right? I think and hope that we are on a stronger/healthier path now, but it took a lot of crap to get here, and nothing is ever certain. Iím grateful that we are here today, trying our best to love and forgive each other, trying our best to grow and be better people. To build a better marriage and foundation for our family. That wouldnít have happened if I hadnít put my foot down about his actions and resolved to fix myself. Our shit coping mechanisms solved NOTHING. They just made things worse.

IAMF, my point is that your actions hurt your husband, and you can and should strive to show him compassion. Empathize with him and walk in his shoes as best you can. However, I feel that to say itís okay for your husband to do ďwhateverĒ is crappy for both of you. My husband regrets every day his justifications, his blaming of me, his eagerness to occupy a space of victimization in an attempt to avoid dealing with his real hurts. No one has the power to make someone else cheat and eventually, your husband will need to make the choice to own up, clean up his side of the street. It is absolutely fine to express your boundary with compassion, and to keep working on fixing you. Maybe heíll be able to turn in and work with you someday, and maybe he wonít. He will go his own way, but how he chooses to cope is not your fault. Right now, it sounds like your husband is way deep in avoidance and if he was like this prior to your A, then heís ducking his own stuff. You canít build a marriage alone, R takes two, doubly so for madhatters. My BH had been coping for years in unhealthy ways with his trauma. It took us a ton of IC to get to where we are and it has been the hardest shit Iíve ever done. I didnít want to walk away and lose my husband. I wanted to be better and I wanted to fix my marriage. I didnít want to enable his avoidance and addiction anymore, either. Thankfully, heís wading in. We both are.

I wish you both healing and peace. Sorry for the novel length post!

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