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Mind movies

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Iamtrash posted 8/30/2019 22:43 PM

Is there anyway to help a BS with mind movies or do they just need to work through them on their own? I know it is very hard for him. How can I help besides reassuring him or talking as much as he needs to about them?

Drumstick posted 8/30/2019 22:53 PM

Review EMDR therapy. Seems to work for some, while not others. Overall, be gracious that he may consider giving this therapy a chance.

Good luck, IAT.

P.S. Youíre not trash. If you were, you wouldnít be here asking questions. On the other hand, just because youíre here asking questions to help, doesnít mean you shouldnít have humility when dealing with your husbandís mind movies,Ē and whether or not EMDR is a solution to the problem youíre seeking advice for.

Iamtrash posted 8/30/2019 23:03 PM

Anyone that cheats is trash. (Selfishness, trauma causing, all the damage, itís pretty low.) But for some trash, there is hope to be recycled into something better. Maybe instead of being an empty plastic bottle, I can come back as something beneficial to those that surround me. I accept what Iíve done and know that thereís still hope to be something better than this.

Thank you for the suggestion. Looking it up now. :)

Carissima posted 8/30/2019 23:38 PM

I'm confused, isn't there a Restraining/Protection Order in operation against your BH? With no contact permitted for 2 months?

reassuring him or talking as much as he needs to about them?

How are you able to do the above without violating the order?

FearfulAvoidance posted 8/30/2019 23:47 PM

Anyone that cheats is trash. (Selfishness, trauma causing, all the damage, itís pretty low.) But for some trash, there is hope to be recycled into something better. Maybe instead of being an empty plastic bottle, I can come back as something beneficial to those that surround me. I accept what Iíve done and know that thereís still hope to be something better than this.

I like this metaphor. I see determination and hope in it, which are two things that are hard to hold onto sometimes.
I would add that this recycling doesn't happen because the bottle is thrown in the blue bin by something else. It's because the bottle threw itself into the bin.

As for help with mind movies I second EMDR. My BS has been doing sessions and she says it is helpful. Mind movies wreak havoc on the nervous system. I think part of what makes them so hard to get through is because the brain is overloaded with too many neurons firing. If it can get to a place where it just needs to focus on the emotional feelings of a mind movie and not all the physical sensations it would be easier to move through. At least that is my basic understanding of EMDR.

But that's not something you can do. Only he can make that choice. Really all you can do is be there, and try to be with him in whatever way he feels comfortable. You can't fix it. You can't make them stop. All you can do is love him through it to the best of your ability.

ibonnie posted 8/31/2019 01:01 AM

I second Carissima's question.

How can I help besides reassuring him or talking as much as he needs to about them?

But this is pretty much all you can do, over and over, and don't get frustrated if it's still happening a year or two from now.

I'm two years past d-day, and I still have mind movies pretty much every single time WH and I have sex. So, 2-3x per week. There are times where we have to stop because I just start crying. Actually, the worst time for mind movies (for me) is when I'm doing the dinner dishes, because I can zone out and just start going over stuff in my head.

But I've definitely gotten better at dealing with them and pushing them out of my mind. I just have to stop focusing on my husband when we're having sex (it no longer feels special or like we're making love), and just focus on orgasming. Like he's a human vibrator. If I stop thinking about being with him, and focus just on that, then I can push the mind movies away.

As good as the sex we have is though, it just makes me feel sad. It used to feel like something special and important and intimate between the two of us, and now he's just a means to an end.

[This message edited by ibonnie at 1:02 AM, August 31st (Saturday)]

Drumstick posted 8/31/2019 02:36 AM

Removed. Duplicate.

[This message edited by Drumstick at 2:39 AM, August 31st (Saturday)]

Drumstick posted 8/31/2019 02:38 AM

Carissma,

You wrote:

I'm confused, isn't there a Restraining/Protection Order in operation against your BH? With no contact permitted for 2 months?

Reassuring him or talking as much as he needs to about them?

How are you able to do the above without violating the order?

Confirm this with IAT, but protection orders (PO) are generally between the state/local govt. and the allegedly offending party, not between the alleged offender and offendee. Thus, a state/local govt. has no right to enforce a PO against an alleged offender, unless the offendee makes a complaint. Thus as long as IAT makes no complaint to the state/local govt. against the alleged offender (hallmark), no harm exists.

Drumstick posted 8/31/2019 03:30 AM

IAT,

You wrote:

Anyone that cheats is trash. (Selfishness, trauma causing, all the damage, itís pretty low.) But for some trash, there is hope to be recycled into something better. Maybe instead of being an empty plastic bottle, I can come back as something beneficial to those that surround me. I accept what Iíve done and know that thereís still hope to be something better than this.


Remember that life is gray/grey. Your past choices donít necessarily define your future decisions; yet you cannot (and should not) forget how your past decisions lead to your current life scenario.

With that in mind, I urge you to stop thinking sooooooooo negatively about being a wayward. Iím not saying that you shouldnít feel disgust with your wayward actions, you should. Rather, Iím suggesting that you do not allow yourself to get caught in a shame-spiral as you possibly eluded to above regarding your past poor choices. During a shame-spiral waywards (and any other person having made a poor past decision in life) can gets lost in their own shame regarding their past choices.

Ultimately, a shame-spiral is selfish because the focus is on you and your poor prior decisions, rather than what choicrs you can personally make to ensure a better futile, like being a safe, honest, and transparent life partner.

So, while I understand your need to ďfeel like trash,Ē I hope youíll at least stop and think about whether or not your decision to focus on your ďtrashinessĒ is more inwardly focused (and therefore selfish) versus using your ďtrashyĒ feeling to consistently make better future decisions and undertake actions to prove to the person you committed to that you will never again make such poor choices.

Iamtrash posted 8/31/2019 06:41 AM

Your past shapes your future. I am using these decisions to make sure this never happens again. The pain Iíve seen and caused canít happen again. I am deeply ashamed, but thatís not my focus. Feel the shame, acknowledge his feelings and what it did to him, apologize, learn, change, grow, apologize some more, never do it again.

Seriously, itís just a name in a group. Made a few days after d-day. Was feeling like trash when I made it. Not something I dwell on all the time or something that defines me.

As for the TPO, what the cops donít know wonít hurt him. The children need to see their dad. He sees them regularly. We talk regularly. Iím not in this to hurt him more or use our family against him. We are talking better now than we have in 9 years. Even about the difficult stuff. (Just the fact that we are being open and not bottling things up is a HUGE deal.) We are learning when to take a break from a conversation that is going in a bad direction and return to it when we are both calm. Itís taking work, but being apart is helping immensely.

[This message edited by Iamtrash at 6:43 AM, August 31st (Saturday)]

oldtruck posted 8/31/2019 09:03 AM

Iamrecycled, you have been on SI since july 2019.

I do not remember when your D day was or how long
ago your affair ended. I assume not that long ago.

Time is needed to heal. Recovery takes two to five years.

The healing moves at such a slow pace that changes
cannot be seen on a day to day basis or even week
to week.

You can be doing things just like Hikingitout and
other great FWW's. That does not make a BH heal
faster then the normal two to five years.

Just keep doing one step forward everyday you
will eventually get there.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 9:03 AM, August 31st (Saturday)]

Chaos posted 8/31/2019 09:30 AM

BS here. I do like the recycled analogy FWIW.

Mind movies - OMG. These are crippling. I am 2 years from DDay1, Just past the Antiversary of DDay2 and weeks shy of DDay3. I can tell you I still have them and have them hard. Especially during sex. They have caused me immense stress, frequent hyperventilation, panic attacks, chest pains and a few ER visits. I am on Rx to deal with all of this. I tell you this not to scare you, but give you a very realistic picture.

How can I help besides reassuring him or talking as much as he needs to about them?

But this is pretty much all you can do, over and over, and don't get frustrated if it's still happening a year or two from now.

THIS! ibonnie is correct. THIS - over and over and over. Sans any hint of frustration.

Now to address the sex. HB hit me and hit me hard. I was so ashamed but somewhat relieved to find out it was a "thing". Now - I'll let you in on something. When mind movies hit during sex [and they frequently do] I amp it up and make it all about me. I make sure I fuck AP from my right out of my mind. Make no mistake - this is for ME. If WH enjoys it more - I couldn't say and really don't care. I am quite literally fucking AP from my mind in that moment. Little secret - this sexual high comes with the aftercrash. I often in private weep silently. Please - after sex - if your WH seems a little down, a little off, wants to be alone - recognize it for the Orgasm Hangover that it is. Be extra gentle with him in those moments.

Oversimplified - the answer to your ultimate question is - Proven Behavior over Time.

And remember - recycling is a process. But a worthwhile one.

gmc94 posted 8/31/2019 10:54 AM

BS here. I've done EMDR and it did help some things, but NOT mind movies. Does not mean that I would not recommend it (bc it did help in several areas), but it may not help this particular aspect (and for a relatively small % of patients, EMDR may not work much at all).

But I've definitely gotten better at dealing with them and pushing them out of my mind. I just have to stop focusing on my husband when we're having sex (it no longer feels special or like we're making love), and just focus on orgasming. Like he's a human vibrator. If I stop thinking about being with him, and focus just on that, then I can push the mind movies away.

As good as the sex we have is though, it just makes me feel sad. It used to feel like something special and important and intimate between the two of us, and now he's just a means to an end

Once I was able to adopt this mindview, it was better, tho not free of mind movies. I still have them - every time - but I'm much better able to push them away. I have mind movies with just about any physical contact with my CH - not "just" when sex is a predictable outcome.

This and most of Chaos' comments pretty well sum it up for me. I also absolutely get the post-sex "hangover", which can include some pretty harsh emotions.

There may be BH here who will talk a bunch about how them being men makes it different, etc. Personally, I think these differences have FAR less to do with the gender of the BS than the emotional makeup of the BS. IOW, some folks (men AND women) are far better able to process the mind movies than others. Some BS (men AND women) want to do everything the WS did with the AP, usually as a way to "purge" or "reclaim" those activities. Others (men AND women) are the opposite, which may be why it's so difficult to engage in ANY sexual activity.

I think the important thing is to figure out where YOUR BS falls on this spectrum (of everything you did with AP haunts me to lets do everything you did with AP to reclaim those activities as "ours" again).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:00 AM, August 31st, 2019 (Saturday)]

ibonnie posted 8/31/2019 12:06 PM

Little secret - this sexual high comes with the aftercrash. I often in private weep silently. Please - after sex - if your WH seems a little down, a little off, wants to be alone - recognize it for the Orgasm Hangover that it is. Be extra gentle with him in those moments.

Also this. I tend to shut down right after we're done. No cuddles. No post-sex glow. Just go to the bathroom and want to be left alone for awhile. WH feels bad but oh well. I don't particularly feeling like being around him after aex because he's 100% responsible for ruining what was between us.

SorrowfulMoon posted 8/31/2019 20:04 PM

I'm sure others can provide better advice than me.

So am just commenting that I am pleasantly surprised with the current developments and change in attitude and hope you both continue with this mature approach you are jointly pursuing.

ShutterHappy posted 9/1/2019 07:06 AM

As for the TPO, what the cops donít know wonít hurt him.

I canít post a link, so hereís an interesting story...

(...) the kingís dissatisfaction came to a head one day after a court flatterer named Damocles showered him with compliments and remarked how blissful his life must be. ďSince this life delights you,Ē an annoyed Dionysius replied, ďdo you wish to taste it yourself and make a trial of my good fortune?Ē When Damocles agreed, Dionysius seated him on a golden couch and ordered a host of servants wait on him. He was treated to succulent cuts of meat and lavished with scented perfumes and ointments. Damocles couldnít believe his luck, but just as he was starting to enjoy the life of a king, he noticed that Dionysius had also hung a razor-sharp sword from the ceiling. It was positioned over Damoclesí head, suspended only by a single strand of horsehair. From then on, the courtierís fear for his life made it impossible for him to savor the opulence of the feast or enjoy the servants (...)

The RO hangs, like the sword of Damocles, over you BH head. It is best for him to behave, and do what you ask him to do because the cops are one phone call away.

The question is, by breaking the court order, is this whatís best for him or best for you ?

Iamtrash posted 9/1/2019 09:37 AM

Thatís just it, heís not ďbehavingĒ or doing what I ask of him. He was the one that wanted to see me. (I welcome seeing him, but he was not forced or conned into this.) Quite the opposite. I am the one opening up to him. Answering any and all questions, even in repeat. I am opening up until he has all the information he needs. (Not that I donít trip up sometimes. Change takes time.) We have still had conversations go south. We still have had some razor sharp words. Iíve messed up with getting defensive (Iím only human.) We have had a lot of tough, but beneficial conversations, too. No matter where they go, we are learning. We are learning how to talk to each other. How to change and heal. Iím learning what he needs from me to help him. And sometimes he just needs to flat out say, ďI need you to do (a, b,c).Ē He is free to have space or free to talk with me. Thatís always his choice. Respected. Without guilt or anger.

I manage fine on my own. I manage the kids, the chores, working full time. Challenging but not impossible. It hurts not having him here full time, but the space is necessary and helpful. This isnít about what is best for him or me, although we are both gaining things out of not being in the same home full time. Breaking the RO is what is best for our children. Our kids need their father. And actually, I am seeing good change in my older son. He is really handling this in good, but unexpected ways. He is cooperating and helpful. Theyíre always eager to spend time as a family and we are all appreciating the time together.

sisoon posted 9/1/2019 10:49 AM

I agree with Fearful Avoidance.

Anyone that cheats is trash.
It's one thing to call yourself trash. This is calling all other WSes trash, too. It's for sure an over-generalization, and IMO it's an unhealthy one.

Healing requires taking responsibility for oneself as an individual. A WS needs to figure out what work s/he specifically needs to do to change from betrayer to good partner. Placing oneself, in one's head, in among a class of people moves one's focus away from where it's best placed - oneself - and moves it to the class.

Words matter. Beating yourself up won't help you heal. Beating others (all cheaters) up actually slows healing.

One way of expressing where we all want to go may be 'to keep doing the next right thing.' It's much easier to figure out what the next right think is if you're not beating people up with your self-talk.

JMO, of course.

2timesunfaithful posted 9/1/2019 11:31 AM

sisoon,
You remain true to form based on your signature line.

I get insanely triggered by over-generalizations.

Anyone who cheats is trash.

There is a kernel of truth depending on how your define trash, viewed from a waywards perspective. I considered myself trash after my A's. I had thrown away the only thing left in our marriage at the time; integrity.

People throw away trash all the time, akin to a wayward who has a PA is throwing away a marriage.

Sorry for the philosophical tangent, no thread jack. Continue on with the discussion.


ShutterHappy posted 9/1/2019 12:25 PM

Breaking the RO is what is best for our children.

Can you not take steps to revert the RO? I do not know the laws in your country/state, but thatís something to consider.

It is good that you are getting less defensive. No more "yes but". Cheating is an incredibly selfish act. The solution to this is to develop empathy to a level where it canít happen again, years in the future. Thereís also the aspect of "you broke it, you fix it". Some Waywards in here can explain it better than me.

Are you dedicated to this? The above post sounds like "I donít really need him, but he can come if he wants"

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