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Avoiding Relapse

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Zugzwang posted 10/8/2019 08:08 AM

I know we are all piling on you. We are just trying to get you to see that your hard lines about your husbands behavior- short of abuse...are because of your actions. This sort of behavior if he exhibited them would more than likely be temporary and really wouldn't be reflecting on how he feels about you but how he feels due to the pain he is in. Due to your choices to hurt him. You have this attitude coming across that everything you did was okay, just not okay if he goes even a bit off the line. It is hypocritical to just expect him to be in a box after the fact that you fucked him over. It is controlling at best. There isn't any empathy here, even though you keep claiming you have it. Just because a BS agrees to R doesn't mean that is what will happen first. First he has to heal and R himself. That means there may be many things that may not be in the best interest of the marriage. It will be in the best interest of him healing. It isn't great when one wants to jump on the band wagon of righteousness after they drove the wagon off the cliff with cruel intentions. You really need to stop and focus on the fact that you caused all this and that just doesn't go away and disappear just because you want to R now. The marriage doesn't pick up where you chose to leave off and it doesn't start with every action being conducive to being married just because you realize you want to stay married now. There are his feelings of pain involved here and you are only focused on your own guilt and shame.

gmc94 posted 10/8/2019 13:00 PM

It isn't great when one wants to jump on the band wagon of righteousness after they drove the wagon off the cliff with cruel intentions.
Nice one, Zug.

VioletElle posted 10/8/2019 15:23 PM

I could be wrong, but if I recall, I think that VE's PA (maybe not EA) did not begin until after the AP left the company she still works at. IOW, the AP no longer works at her company (and may not have been a coworker at the time of the EA or PA).

VE can certainly correct if I'm wrong, but that's how I remembered the story.

This is completely correct. Regardless HR would never open an investigation on behalf of a spouse. Just not how the real world works.

Carissima posted 10/8/2019 16:33 PM

Regardless HR would never open an investigation on behalf of a spouse. Just not how the real world works

Not true where I work, however I do work in a different country for a public body that has to be transparent to the public in all aspects of its policies and practices. Any allegation of impropriety would be fully investigated, especially if evidence could be provided.

VioletElle posted 10/8/2019 19:05 PM

Maybe things are done differently in other places, but it's unimaginable that HR would involve themselves in such matters here. I have been through management training and the only thing they would be concerned with is the safety of the employees. A betrayed husband is close to infinitely more likely to bring violence to the work place than an affair partner. The most he would accomplish by attemting to smear my name would he a place on the security watch list. The other thing is that nobody would care. It would never get past security. If he started calling random people in my section, he would likely get a visit from the police.

As much as it bothers the sense of justice here, he isn't going to get even with me over this. It's unfair that this happened, but if he forgives me, then he can't say, "you're forgiven, but now I need to even the score."

The main problems is, is that none of this evens the score or helps him heal. I'm not worried about being exposed. I already think he should have told our friends and family. So what happens when he goes for revenge and notices it isn't enough? Does he keep looking for ways to hurt me until the scales are even? It would never get there. So if he were, and he hasn't, started acting with malice in mind then there would be no end to it that wasn't a divorce.

But....but..but...but you cheated! Yes, I did and if he can't forgive me I would understand and empathize with that. What I would not do is stick around to find out who can hurt who worse until we are completely even. It would never end. To say since I cheated he gets to do such and such act of revenge misses the entire point of forgiveness.

There would also be the bigger issue of being in a loveless marriage built on coercion and bean counting. We both still love each other and therefore we are going to get past this.

m2r2 posted 10/8/2019 19:33 PM

I rarely comment here but would like to ask you a question without being arrogant or offensive if you can give us honest answer.
Why are you posting here and what are you getting from it?
After several moths of posts, hundreds of replays and advices you always have smart ass comment at the end.
Why? If you disagree with everyone who is trying to help you get trough this, there must be something wrong with tens of thousands of members here

Carissima posted 10/8/2019 19:35 PM

I wasn't actually relating it to your situation just pointing out that affairs can impact on people's careers (depending on the circumstances of course).

I know one rising star who ended up getting a side ways move to the edge of nowhere and his career just stuttered to a halt after getting caught in an affair with a typist. No more promotions for either of them!

sassylee posted 10/8/2019 19:58 PM

Two people in my Canadian workplace were sanctioned for their affair. One took a demotion and the other will never see a permanent contract. My employer cared very much about the integrity of its employees.

66charger posted 10/8/2019 20:12 PM

But....but..but...but you cheated! Yes, I did and if he can't forgive me I would understand and empathize with that. What I would not do is stick around to find out who can hurt who worse

When should he start his process of forgiveness? Should he forgive if the possiblity of "hurting each other worse" still exist on your part?

This is not meant to be a 2x4. You are either 100% done with infidelity, all doors are closed or you are asking for something you do not deserve.

Are you ready for that or do you need more time.

BeyondRage posted 10/8/2019 20:23 PM

Personally, all of the workplace emphasis in my opinion is really not the main issue here. Every company is different.

Violet Elle, ets just assume that no one in your office knew or was suspicious of you and your OM "dating" as you would call it. If that is the case, and unless you took leave when you were supposed to be working or used company funds or did anything not above the board in your companys eyes, then you are correct, your HR department is going to have no concern that you were banging a guy that USED to work there. And unless he plans to divorce you, your husband would be crazy to go make a scene there about someone no longer employed.

And it is understandable that you do not want to go open a can of worms ion something you can handle yourself. but you refuse to.

If you are being truthful, your last contact with OM you told him you could not meet him for sex right then but did not say NO . Those i believe were your words.

And its hard to believe that an intelligent woman like you actually believes that based on that he will not try to contact you again, and he knows how to get you at work. Men who are getting regular sex from someone elses wife do not give up based on "not saying no" and you are too smart not to know that

What you so far have REFUSED to say is that when and if that happens you will NOT engage in any conversation and you will hang up the phone on him without uttering a word. And that you then will tell your husband exactly what you did instead of going home and saying he called you again and you talked to him and your sorry.

So after all this how close are you to AVOIDING RELAPSE, which is supposedly why you started this thread. Because if you have any conversation at all with this guy FOREVER , then you have relapsed.

You will not be a safe partner for your husband until YOU accept that this guy is totally out of your life FOREVER , not just that you don;t want to fuck him right now

Making those decisions has nothing to do with your workplace except for the fact that that is where he can have unimpeded access to you, can actually show up there, until you CONVINCE him by refusing to interact at all and he believes it.

nightmare01 posted 10/8/2019 20:30 PM

As much as it bothers the sense of justice here, he isn't going to get even with me over this. It's unfair that this happened, but if he forgives me, then he can't say, "you're forgiven, but now I need to even the score."

Of course he can.
From the internet:

Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness. ... Forgiveness does not mean forgetting, nor does it mean condoning or excusing offenses.

I believe this definition is naive at best, because even in the most perfect form of forgiveness, there is memory. If a friend steals a piece of bubble gum from me, sure; I'll say it's no big deal but I'll remember the theft and be certain that I don't leave my bubble gum around when he's there. Beyond that, our relationship is permanently marred by that memory. Some amount of trust will be lost, and here will be resentment, so there's always the chance that I may decide to swipe some of his gum to even the score. Perhaps I would take two pieces of his gum, one to balance the theft and the other to compensate the damage to our friendship - but you know what? No matter what I do, our relationship will forever be out of balance.

Infidelity is a lot worse than gum theft. Resentment will always be there because the memory will forever remain. Infidelity destroys trust, and without trust can any real intimacy exist? Without emotional intimacy, what remains of the relationship? There's no real fix to infidelity, in their wake our relationships will never be what they could have been.

Sanibelredfish posted 10/8/2019 21:00 PM

Lol, how does one smear your name by telling the truth about you??? Itís impossible by definition. Seems to me youíve smeared your own name with your ethical lapses. I donít expect you to recognize or admit that though.

ThisIsSoLonely posted 10/8/2019 21:30 PM

In the United States, some jobs do come with consequences for infidelity. My WH and his AP work together - so does her H/the OBS (what a fucking triangle of hell for the OBS)...and not only would my WH and AP lose their jobs if discovered, but the OBS would if HR were to find out he knew and didn't tell HR (he does as I told him which was a massive reason I did not for so long). I realize I am splitting hairs here as the OP said that it did not at the workplace she is referring to - fair enough - it likely would not at most places I have worked previously either - at least not officially.

WilliamM posted 10/8/2019 22:10 PM

I'm a BH and just want to share some thoughts. I thing you are looking at some of the suggestions as revenge, when in reality, it is about making him feel safe. Being transparent with emails, text messages, and social media helps him feel safe. And right now, only you can make him feel safe. Your actions have destroyed that. The question then becomes, "What are you willing to do to help him feel safe"? Are you willing to do the work to feel safe? Do you want this marriage, with your BH, and no one else? If the answer is yes, then you must accept that he will do or say irrational things during this time. Instead of throwing the marriage away if he says this, or does that, be present withhim in his pain. And be willing to remove any enemy of your marriage out of the way. That includes your AP. He is an enemy and should be treated as such.
Why? Because to your BH, he is his enemy. He is a POS.

Now the work thing does not seem to be an issue. But I have to correct you. If you and AP DID work together, HR would not take that lightly. People have been fired over this very thing. But that is not your situation. But even if BH informed HR, a marriage can survive that, just as a marriage can survive an affair.

It seems you want no consequences. If he wants you to experience consequences, that is not revenge. Revenge would be to have an RA, trying to take your children away from you. That would be revenge. Now he would be wrong to call your fellow coworkers and share his pain with them. But a marriage can survive that. If you both want the marriage to survive. You will accept that he may do something that you are against.

My issue is that you don't want to fight for him if he does do something out of pain. You seem to willing to let the marriage go. So if I'm hurt, and respond in my pain, and you say "You have a right to feel your pain, but I'm gone", then why stay now?

[This message edited by WilliamM at 11:35 PM, October 8th (Tuesday)]

Justsomelady posted 10/9/2019 06:48 AM

I feel like youíre spending a lot of time quibbling with folks about sideshow issues, not responding deeply to the ďrealĒ issues, and baiting people into a fight by saying stuff like ďbut but but ....sense of justice etcĒ in a way that makes light of or mocks folksí perspectives and triggers.

If you think people are wrong - then get down to it with something meaningful. I feel all this back and forth from you and posters about HR and work stuff is a sideshow issue. Now, what folks have pointed out about wondering why your husband canít have his own pain and reaction without you going nuclear - that is of course important but at the moment also less relevant because he has not taken that course of action and chose to stifle his pain. I assume this from what youíve said here, correct if I am wrong.You pay lip service to healing by setting up a thread but you arenít actually allowing yourself to embrace the process.

Your husband doesnít want therapy. He wants to avoid everything. That says a lot to me about how deeply wounded and humiliated he probably is, it is so strong it would be like staring at the sun so he cannot face it. I am a stranger on the internet - is that also your read on him, as his wife?

To not talk about it in therapy or otherwise - Is that what you want? Will that not eventually lead to simmering resentment and the same avoidance and escapism they led to the affair - so perhaps to more affairs - potentially on both sides? It is something conflict avoidant people will do....

You came here to SI to process some shit, you say donít want to relapse so you posted, but you arenít really getting anywhere. You are fighting instead.

I think what you really want is to meaningfully, deeply communicate with your husband (and perhaps yourself too) but one or both of you are missing some tools to do so. It is not easy for sure and it may involve some arguing with him, yes, which you seem to want to avoid or he does or both. ....but that can be constructive if handled with kindness. You fight for things that are important to you.

You mentioned up thread you wish your husband had outed you to people you know.:.. but at work would be anathema... why is that?

It sounds to me like you want him to face issues on some level and you do too, but then when you get up to the line you get scared and back off dealing with it...so you come here to SI looking for a solution but distract by fighting and quibbling and getting defensive about randomness.

Now I canít blame you for feeling defensive, folks are piling on. However, wouldnít you feel more relief if you got to the heart of the matter (why you had the affair, what issues are there now with marriage - and are you willing to bring them up to discussion, why are you struggling w NC, what are limits of what you will accept from hubbyís potential responses to the pain)...

What would things look like if you explored it all a bit more with yourself and with hubby, clear-eyed and with accountability and kindness, and asked questions about where that leads you?

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 7:59 AM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

blahblahblahe posted 10/9/2019 10:15 AM

I believe "troll" would be the operative word here.

There is little other purpose to the postings and "it" makes far too many errors in trying to project itself.

"Management Training" would have been humorous if the subject matter was not so delicate. "It's" clear misunderstanding of the function and scope of a HR department demonstrates another overreach attempt.

Causing harm to people looking for various degrees of answers is genuinely shameful.

Please let the thread and poster fade away, help those here who need it.

InvoluntarilyCuc posted 10/9/2019 13:18 PM

[This message edited by InvoluntarilyCuc at 1:24 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

anoldlion posted 10/9/2019 17:37 PM

I must say you are married to a most extraordinary man. Most men would be running for the hills. There are probably about a million women that wish they had such a husband. You never know what you really have until you get to the point of losing it. You husband is 100X the man your AP is. Don't continue destroying what you have. If you do then when you are an old woman you will wish you hadn't. Value what you have and hold on to it before it slips through your fingers. I do wish you well.

Justsomelady posted 10/9/2019 20:40 PM

I donít think she is a troll at all. defensive yes, but folks are slinging a lot of 2 x 4s and those arenít effective mediums for everyone or at all times in the process. It can make it really hard to consider a viewpoint. this is not easy to explore within oneself and oneís relationship. She signed up here for a reason. Hopefully she can get some mwhere better than where she started.

Zugzwang posted 10/10/2019 17:54 PM

She still hasn't answered the one basic question from the first page. If she has blocked him.

Why is any consequence a revenge to you? If I recall your husband never said anything about evening the score. Seems more like you are fighting what people think of you instead of focusing on becoming less selfish.

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