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Avoiding Relapse

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Justsomelady posted 10/2/2019 19:34 PM

VE - good job staying NC. Have you figured out ways to block him wherever possible? It is too enticing, If you leave a door open and he comes knocking when you are weak...not good. Set yourself up for success.

Itís hard, I hear that. I am sometimes still desirous of mine too. If sucks. I give myself points when I donít check social media and I resist places Iíd possibly bump into him. I analyze why I am feeling desire for contact at a given point in time, etc. I find it pops up when I am looking for a distraction from something that is causing me anxiety and overwhelm. And then o get this brief glimpse and it triggers the feelings that were all caught up in something very appealing but very false. I remind myself those feelings arenít real, they are all part of unhealthy patterns and conceptions that I donít even fully understand yet. A fantasy is so hard to shake. But keep at it. Mine keeps getting weaker and weaker. The pull is not what it used to be.

That said - you really need to try to get to the bottom of why you want this guy and what led you there. Beyond his characteristics that made him appealing as an AP. What YOU were looking for unconsciously.

I disagree with your hubby about therapy being outside interference. For individual therapy, that is. I think IC is pretty invaluable for a wayward in particular because it is about changing y habits and thought patterns and uncovering long term issues and things that led you down your path. Someone impartial you trust who can look at your story objectively and gently push back on your presumptions and help you learn new things about yourself. MC - and any family therapy situation - I think is pretty tricky (and sometimes destructive) if not with the right counselor and if done at the wrong time. You are still withdrawing from your AP, not the best time for MC anyway. This is an excellent time for you to get to your own therapy.

Maybe a retreat or MC will help the marriage later, but I would focus on healing you now and you need help with that.

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 7:39 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

VioletElle posted 10/2/2019 20:55 PM

That said - you really need to try to get to the bottom of why you want this guy and what led you there. Beyond his characteristics that made him appealing as an AP. What YOU were looking for unconsciously
.

Thanks for your response. Did you figure out what that was for you? It's something I very much struggle with.

I believe that I need to be in therepy and not just because I had an affair. I have some deep seeded issues that dealing with can be overwhelming at times. But what do I say? He doesn't want me to see anyone. I likely wouldn't even talk much about the affair, it would come up but it's not as if I would spend hour after hour going over it. I can certainly understand my husband feeling like he could lose me, but I'm not going anywhere. There isn't going to be some breakthrough where I stop loving him. I just messed up really bad and don't want to engage anyone without his support.

Justsomelady posted 10/2/2019 23:22 PM

Not an easy question! But I will try. Regarding what I was looking for: I am still working on that in therapy, but think it is a lot of what I mentioned about needing escape, I get very overwhelmed and anxious in life and havenít always had good coping skills for that - at those times I am susceptible to the fantasy that someone has it together and will take it away. Also - I seek external validation waaaay too much. I was drawn to a seemingly (I now see it is false/superficial) very confident, competent-seeming EAP.

That confidence reassured me. I was weak and struggling and things in my marriage needed help, rather than focus on watering my own grass I allowed my boundaries to fall and an inappropriate connection to form.

As it went on, I had a lot of guilt at where my thoughts and actions were taking me and tried to rationalize or find fault with my husband. I was pretty conflicted feelingsówise but knew in my heart I was wrong. And around that time found my way here and ended EA before it became physical.

I feel very lucky to have found my way here, that I didnít work super closely with the guy, and that I had enough self awareness and catholic guilt to slow my roll. Talking with and disclosing to my husband helped. Piercing through the fantasy helped. Reading about limerence continues to help. So short version for me is massive insecurity, escapism, entitlement with a little bit of misplaced resentment (that H couldnít be my savior and Iíd have to figure my own mess out).

Second part of your comment: About your husband not wanting you in therapy -
I guess I donít understand why he has such strong feelings about you improving your mental health and becoming a stronger person for him as well as yourself. What is he afraid of?

I think waywards have to put their betrayed spousesí needs first but not at the expense of health and I worry about his resistance to your getting help. Maybe talk to him about this more and bring it up with your regular doctor to help you make your case to your husband. I canít imagine a good and thorough doctor not recommending you seek help if you are struggling. You canít just take a pill and make it go away (but they do help if you find right ones and they are a fit for you), Broken people canít fix themselves. We need others. I hope he can come around. Maybe your work had some employee assistance plan. Not the same at all but You could also look into a womenís group or even a womenís bible study to just help with support.

ETA - just registered for me what you wrote about your husband thinking therapy for you would make him lose you. That breaks my heart - is they what he said? Can you reassure him about this? I think he needs to explore that with you some more. Maybe he is just scared of another connection forming away from him. But we need support outside our spouses - does he have a group of guys or close friends or a civic/hobby group he can turn to for support/friendship (not necessarily A related).

Does that missive help you think through your own situafion and what could be behind it for you?

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 11:32 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

fareast posted 10/3/2019 13:01 PM

It could be as simple as your BH fearing that the IC will lead you to realize you had an A because you donít love him or need him? I think this is possible. You should, if possible, reassure him that the IC is for your emotional health and dealing with your own deep seated issues, not as a means to find an excuse to leave your M.

Buffer posted 10/7/2019 05:11 AM

Hi VE,

How are your u doing?

A lot of posters offering good advice however; some tend to use a 2x4 to communicate.

I have grave concerns for your children and BS. May I ask how are you making BS feel safe due to he not being able to ensure you remain NC through work emails?

You have said you donít want others at work to know and if BS did I form say out of frustration as he feeling that you werenít supporting him through the infidelity process, you would D as this would be unforgettable and akin to blackmail. Am I reading your post and right?

I see a lot about what you want very me orientated yet not about the family wants. I am sure the children want Mom back and BS wants to feel safe whist his W is out working.

You are fighting a battle yet until you recognise AP as the enemy it will be a loosing battle. He has to be resented, a danger to your children hated by his action in getting you to lay with him.

He is not a businessman he is after your body please if you do only one thing. Hate him for what he has done to the children and BS

Be selfish for BS first and for most.

Good luck

VioletElle posted 10/7/2019 12:15 PM

I didn't say anything like that. My concern isn't about who might know what. My concern regarding work is not having my husband on the security watch list and deserving to be there as a result of of psychopathic behaviour. Such as calling my supervisor to discuss the affair.

If the spouse of one of my staff called with such intent I would.

1) respectfully tell him how inappropriate his call is and ask him not to call again.
2) Inform security of the incident and make a report.
3) In the presence of a mediator, speak to the employee and ask about violent tendencies and the weapon situation.
4) Take any steps to ensure the saftey of the work place and employee.

What I would not do, is work with the BS to monitor my employees personal life. The fact nobody gets how insane that suggestion was pretty scary.

There are things, such as the scenario above, that would show that the marriage is beyond saving. This is not selfish. Such behaviour would show that his healing could not happen with me. His life would go on, I would care about his mental health but I would not wish to further contribute to its deterioration.

Having an entire list of impossible demands, such as monitoring me 24 hours a day, would show that the marriage is over.

I have not threatened him with anything. He has not displayed such psychopathic behaviour.

And yes, if he threatens me with acts of disclosure if I don't conform to such and such demand, that is blackmail. I will not live by those conditions. It's not the fear of being exposed, I don't care if I am exposed, it's the malicious intent. The idea that he can coerce me into something. That would show that if affection is gone then it could never return. So at that point, why be married?

HellFire posted 10/7/2019 12:20 PM

You fucking another man is a big indication that the marriage you had, is over. You breaking NC is further indication that the marriage you had is over, and you're not necessarily invested in building a new marriage.

You have served your husband a buffet of shit sandwiches. When are you going to take a bite?

xhz700 posted 10/7/2019 12:29 PM

My concern regarding work is not having my husband on the security watch list and deserving to be there as a result of of psychopathic behaviour. Such as calling my supervisor to discuss the affair.

You aren't getting this. You really aren't getting this.

sleepylove posted 10/7/2019 12:33 PM

Let me get this straight. If 2 of your subordinates were carrying on an affair you would do the following?:


1) respectfully tell him how inappropriate his call is and ask him not to call again.
2) Inform security of the incident and make a report.
3) In the presence of a mediator, speak to the employee and ask about violent tendencies and the weapon situation.
4) Take any steps to ensure the saftey of the work place and employee.

So you would squash the incident without speaking to HR to see if this would be a violation of policies?

Sounds like more deflecting and rugsweeping.

xhz700 posted 10/7/2019 12:35 PM

Here... I'll try top explain this.

You are saying that you are bothered by the way that your BH is acting. The way that he is acting is controlling and irrational (I agree).

The behavior that he is exhibiting is a direct result of the way that you treated him, which was cruel and irrational.

What is happening to him is a NORMAL RESPONSE TO BEING TREATED ABNORMALLY.

You only need to decide if this marriage is worth more than your pride. If it is, show some humility, and give up some control. If not, leave.

You can either be right, or you can be married, you can't be both.

xhz700 posted 10/7/2019 12:41 PM

So you would squash the incident without speaking to HR to see if this would be a violation of policies?

Sounds like more deflecting and rugsweeping.

Not to mention it's really convenient that in this specific case she's extremely concerned with doing things "the right way". She was less so concerned with things being done the right way when she had an affair. Rules for thee, not for me.

Honestly VE, I am just baffled. It doesn't seem like you want any real advice at all, you have it all figured out.

What is the ask here?

jinkazama posted 10/7/2019 13:19 PM

Wow

16 Pages

And Zero progress

Sanibelredfish posted 10/7/2019 13:36 PM

From your previous posts, I understand you live in Canada. So, I am not sure what corporate policies are or what sexual harassment laws are like. That said, having an affair with a coworker is more often than not a violation of both in the US. Consequently, it opens employers to legal action if they do not address the issue. Accordingly, they tend to take such issues quite seriously and act on them, and I suspect Canadian employers might too. You should probably reach out to the HR and Legal teams at your employer with a hypothetical question about what you should do in the event you are contacted about an ongoing A. Turning a blind eye to it could cost you your job.

Chaos posted 10/7/2019 13:39 PM

Having an entire list of impossible demands, such as monitoring me 24 hours a day, would show that the marriage is over

The marriage was over when you had an affair. Your refusal to go NC is choosing the AP over your BH and family. Your unwillingness to be fully transparent is probably the death knoll to your marriage and family.

Him wanting you to do the work and be accountable is not psychotic. Your unwillingness to do so is manipulative at best.

I feel sorry for your BH. I hope he finds his way to SI. Since you seem so unwilling to help him as you are stuck in self preservation mode, there are plenty here who will be willing to help him help himself.

I have a funny feeling there is more to this story. And I have a feeling that your problems now are just the tip of a very big iceberg should exposure happen. And it will happen. Maybe not now. Maybe not in any way you think. But it will happen. You wonít be able to threaten/bully/blackmail/manipulate it or him forever. Funny thing about things buried . They always have a way of coming to the surface. And the harder you try to justify this remaining secret - the louder you are virtually screaming there is far more yet to be discovered.

I feel sorry for your BH. You continue to cut him to the quick and he keeps trying to show you grace. Do you really think youíre worth it?

gmc94 posted 10/7/2019 13:43 PM

VE - it may do you some good to read up on relational betrayal TRAUMA. At least educate yourself on what is "normal" after an affair.

Your posts come off as quite the "know it all", and basically scream that you don't know jack about it. And you appear wholly uninterested in learning.

While I doubt that you would ever deign to actually take a listen, here are some SI-approved links that may teach you a thing or two about what your BH may be experiencing:

http://theaddictedmind.com/episode-21-relational-betrayal-trauma-marnie-breecker/

http://theaddictedmind.com/episode-22-relational-betrayal-trauma-marnie-breecker-part-2/

I worry that your BH is a ticking timebomb. Maybe you sense that too, given that rather than seeing him "outing" you at the office for what it is -a manifestation of the painful trauma he's experienced by your hand (both before and after dday)- you focus on the workplace's security.

Zugzwang posted 10/7/2019 15:07 PM

The fact nobody gets how insane that suggestion was pretty scary.

So, are you saying you don't get how HR should know about two of their employees carrying on during company time? That an affair is involved? I have never worked for any company that allowed employees to have relations. The one I work for now doesn't even allow bosses to go to after work parties with subordinates. A lot of places don't even allow single employees to even date. No one here is saying he has a right to threatened the AP at work. He does however have the right to inform your job that you had relations with another employee while married and pointing to your misconduct at work and the fact that you two chose to cross over professional boundaries and possibly company policies. That isn't a threat. It is a fact. It isn't made to keep watch on you two 24 hours a day. It is a head up that kinky thing are going on at the work place. Honestly, he shouldn't be threatening. You should have just informed your job of the work misconduct. Yes, I did with mine. It was the right thing to do and you never know if it is a habit with an AP and other work colleagues.

You acted irrationally and without love when you fucked over your husband and your job. Your husband may act irrationally to this trauma for a short time, then heal and become someone different in the future. This is unacceptable to you? That he might act without love and respect for a short time till he heals? Do you really believe there was no malicious intent when you cheated and continued to break NC? You knew you would risk losing him and the marriage if he found out. You know it hurts to be lied to and cheated on. There for there was the acceptance of malicious intent.

gmc94 posted 10/7/2019 16:33 PM

I could be wrong, but if I recall, I think that VE's PA (maybe not EA) did not begin until after the AP left the company she still works at. IOW, the AP no longer works at her company (and may not have been a coworker at the time of the EA or PA).

VE can certainly correct if I'm wrong, but that's how I remembered the story.

Amarula posted 10/8/2019 00:54 AM


My concern regarding work is not having my husband on the security watch list and deserving to be there as a result of psychopathic behaviour. Such as calling my supervisor to discuss the affair.

Plucked from the Internet, these are the personality traits and behaviours of a psychopath:

glibness/superficial charm
grandiose sense of self-worth
need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
pathological lying
conning/manipulative
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (i.e., reduced emotional responses)
callous/lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
promiscuous sexual behavior
early behavioral problems
lack of realistic, long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for one's own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release (from prison)
criminal versatility (i.e., commits diverse types of crimes)

We BSes had to contend with most of the above during and after our WSí affair(s). And as a mother, I very much remember my daughter being most of the above during her childhood and adolescence.

Which of these personality traits and behaviours would you see your husband showing in your quoted example? And which personality traits and behaviours would you see yourself showing during and after your affair?

Buffer posted 10/8/2019 05:17 AM

Hi VE,

Sorry sounds like I pissed you off.
I was coming from a BS side as being frustrated, that the WW wasnít making the effort to support BS and children.
You have probably been told that affairs thrive in the dark, my additional views are that both parties are like cockroaches. When a light is shone on it they scurry back to the dark.
I can understand that many advise to shine the light on the A so to stop it. If being a workplace romance then exposing the actions to management may stop the A and protect the firm from harassment. Not to monitor staff morals but protect the workplace.

I have to agree with sleepylove

Reading your response sounds very defensive and rug sweeping, does BS have issues violence or abusive. Just interpreting your response.
I believe all are feeling for BS and your children, but are not feeling the full commitment for R.

Would it be better if you just called this a exit A and let BS move towards a safe partner who has his best interests at heart.

Zugzwang posted 10/8/2019 07:54 AM

Not to monitor staff morals but protect the workplace.

YES, this times a thousand. Doesn't matter if it is that he left. It was a former employee harassing her at work if I remember when he broke NC. Which you didn't respond so pissed off that he bothered you at work and but instead was looking to maybe relapse. Why isn't this seen as a broach on the respect you want so badly? Why don't you see this as threatening, but your husband telling HR is? You are okay with one but not the other. You are okay with the one that makes you a worse person for it. ?? You aren't okay with the action that would hold you accountable?

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