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Avoiding Relapse

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Chaos posted 9/8/2019 14:59 PM

.... I want to do a better job of not being selfish and that isn't easy for me, I've been that way my entire life. I'm used to people doing things for me and that didn't start on my wedding day. Im not sure how to change that except one day at a time.

Admitting this is a start. What are you doing to help change that? And yes, breaking it down one day at a time is a good thing. IC, support group, journal, etc.?

What is your BH doing to help himself? He can't be an ostrich with his head in the sand forever.

I truly, truly hope you start to get it by the time he does. Because then, you both have a chance to heal. If that doesn't happen, all you both are doing is putting a sandbag on a tsunami.

sleepylove posted 9/9/2019 17:25 PM

VE,

I am only 1.5 years out from my last Dday that Iím aware of (another joy of betrayal is that youíre always wondering if thatís the last Dday) and we are attempting to R. I still feel like a rookie around here but hereís a thought I had.

I know MC is often frowned on but Iím thinking it may be beneficial for you and your BH find a counselor that specializes in infidelity. They should be one that takes the stance that an affair is never the fault of the betrayed. Ask them directly if they believe an affair can be caused by or contributed by the betrayed. If the answer is yes, dismiss them and find one that says unequivocally no to this question. Betrayed spouses contribute to marital issues, I certainly did, but they are never responsible for the affair.

This may help bring your husbands head out of the sand in a safer environment and promote the confronting of your continuing infidelity.

You need to get out of your comfort zone of rug sweeping and blame shifting. The wounds need to be exposed and diagnosed so they can be treated properly.

The path you continue to take is an absolute dead end. Iím not sure why I gravitate to your situation so much, maybe itís because I have done a lot of things your BH is doing. I hope you and your BH find some semblance of peace one way or the other. Maybe this idea might help.

DoinBettr posted 9/12/2019 16:09 PM

VE - You are asking your husband to be this:
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=640860

Instead of doing working with him, you sent your BS to the doctor for pills because he is depressed. That is your selfish nature again. Ultimatums and threatening to leave him if he doesn't change how he communicates with you. Also, your selfish nature.

You have a lot of work. Why not try something that will have more results? Try being selfless. Everything he says, he is right. Every thing he asks for, you get/do. Selflessly. You can use your selfish nature to get back to middle over time.
This was only supposed to be more enlightening, but talking with you, feels like I am always swinging a 2x4. Sorry about that. Rewrote this 3 times.

VioletElle posted 9/12/2019 22:09 PM

Instead of doing working with him, you sent your BS to the doctor for pills because he is depressed. That is your selfish nature again. Ultimatums and threatening to leave him if he doesn't change how he communicates with you. Also, your selfish nature.

What on Earth are you talking about? I would never do or say anything like this.

Justsomelady posted 9/13/2019 04:41 AM

So, how is it going with your husband, with youworking on being less selfish, with AP contact or hopefully lack of it etc. ?

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 9/13/2019 05:44 AM

VioletElle,

Why is it that you only come back to address the things that make you angry or when you feel the need to tell us what you would never do or havenít done?

You are obviously paying attention to this thread.

Why wonít you address any of the posts that require some introspection on your part?

It seems you blatantly ignore those posts that try to help you. What are you hoping to gain here?

If you actually let us in on your own process, we wouldnít have to make assumptions and you could spend less time shooting them down.

DoinBettr posted 9/13/2019 09:20 AM

You said he was depressed. Then he went to the doctor and the doctor confirmed he wasn't that worried.
That is a subtle way of saying, he is depressed and you assume the doctor said he is fine. Remove the second part about the doctor and focus more on the fact that your BS is depressed.
Then you get mad when he uses sarcasm or makes requests. I am trying to show you, that instead of trying to fix his depression, you let him go to the doctors to confirm he isn't going to have physical outcomes.
If I am wrong. Please elaborate how that situation occurred.
Like I said. Not meant to hurt you. Trying to show you that you aren't thinking about his feelings with empathy. Empathy has to be taught. That was even a thread in General.

HellFire posted 9/13/2019 09:31 AM

Considering that her husband is terrified of anyone finding out his wife cheated on him, then broke NC, and was considering having sex with him again, I highly doubt he told the doctor what he was dealing with. The doctor can't diagnose him with depression, when he isn't honest about it.

BeyondRage posted 9/13/2019 11:55 AM

ioletElle,
Why is it that you only come back to address the things that make you angry or when you feel the need to tell us what you would never do or havenít done?

You are obviously paying attention to this thread.

Why wonít you address any of the posts that require some introspection on your part?

It seems you blatantly ignore those posts that try to help you. What are you hoping to gain here?

If you actually let us in on your own process, we wouldnít have to make assumptions and you could spend less time shooting them down.

How about just answering a simple yes/no question or two

HAS YOUR OM CALLED YOU AT WORK AGAIN???
IF SO, DID YOU TAKE THE CALL?? Or hang up?
DID YOU TELL YOUR HUSBAND AGAIN?

Im sure that will be too difficult for you to answer but i am guessing some here might be interested in if you have even made an attempt to end your affair yet for real.

Zugzwang posted 9/15/2019 08:32 AM

I can relate to this (I think upon projecting) why she comes back. The same reason she wouldn't tolerate anyone knowing. For the time being, her reputation is more important than her husband's pain because he is being compartmentalized. He is off in a box of "take for granted and take advantage of because I can" so therefor "I can focus of building myself and reputation to get outside validation since I already have him caught". Just what it says to me from my own experiences. I was more worried about myself at this stage. Being seen as the good guy and not that bad. More worried about my reputation. Lacking any true meaningful deep empathy for what I already had "caught". Till I really began to lose what I gambled on as being "caught" and came running to like a dog with a bone when it slipped away. From what I see, she defends when her reputation or character gets muddy. Just like I did. Trying to protect what really isn't worth protecting. Of course, we usually don't notice it till later. Too busy being the right fighter even when it is proven that our idea of right was so fucked up we cheated and TT and keep avenues open.

Falconer posted 9/16/2019 10:44 AM

I have been reading this website for a long time, but somehow this particular situation, actually, namely, VioletElle and her attitude towards her husband urged me to participate.

I believe VioletElle doesnít truely love her husband. I think she loves the idea of her husband. Someone to always love her no matter what, someone to always be there for her, sucks it up all the pain, suffering and humiliation she causes him if he has to, yet, continues to be faithful to her regardless. I donít think she enjoys hurting him, in fact, she probably feels bad about it. The same way you would feel bad when your pet suffers. Doesnít mean you would change your ways in consideration to your pet now, does it?

VioletElle, please understand, I have zore interest in making you feel bad! Because I believe you have every right wanting to lead the life that you want, the life that would make you truely happy. If that life requires having a reliable, loving, caring, loyal partner at home who will make soft, sweet and tender love to you, while you will also have the option to have wild sex with some dominant, alpha male, then by all means, go for it if that is what makes you happy!

The only problem is, I donít think your husband would be a willing participant in that kind of life. He would only be put in that position because you leave him no other choice. He would not say or do the things that many people said in this thread that he would do, and quite frankly, any self respecting man should do by the way, because he loves you so much! Because he doesnít want to live without you. Thatís why he is going through all this humiliation and suffering and sucking it all up and suffering in silence! Because he loves you so damn much! Not because he is ok to be cuckolded by you like this! And not even be able to lash out, or just standing up for himself in any meaningful way!

Now VioletElle, regardless of what others may say, I donít think you are a bad person. And given the choice, I donít think you would want to make your husband suffer like this. So I believe you have to make a decision here. Your husband will never willingly participate in this kind of life. If this is the life you want, you should find a willing participant in that life! Then God bless! But inflicting this awful pain in him over and over again and not even giving him any chance of lashing out, not letting him in any way to stand up for himself as a man, putting him in this helpless position which his only option is to suffer in silence or else he will be served divorce papers and lose you, come on, that canít be right! I know that you donít believe it in your heart that this is neither right nor just! And please donít give me that ď he has the choice to leave if he wants toĒ line either cause if he could have, he would left a thousand times already! The man is desperately holding on to any bit of hope of you loving him enough to become the wife that he wants and deserves.

I believe although you donít truely love him as a wife should love her husband, you do love and care about him in your own way. I believe you would want him to be happy. I donít believe that you would want him to spend his life in pain, humiliation and shame. So either stop cheating on him and start truely doing everything that you should do, everything that should be done in situations like these which is written in many books, talked about by many real life experiences to mend his broken heart, to fix his bruised male go and build him back up again, or just simply end this marriage and set him free!

I know it is hard for you because by your admission you are so used to being selfish and always having your way, but this is one time where you should put your own pride and feelings aside and completely focus on your husband. Otherwise you will further break this loving man to his core! I know you donít want that! So please try! Please think about these things objectively without letting your pride get in the way.

And lastly, I believe you stopped posting because you did jump start the affair and in all probability sleeping with the OM again. Even the very thought of it breaks my heart. Even the most harden male veterans on this thread I am sure feels deeply for your husband, because it is very hard to read what is being done to their fellow man, what he is being reduced to!

I know in your heart, you know what the right thing to do is! Please just do it! Stop letting your pride dictating your actions. Stop destroying your loving husband as a man!

sleepylove posted 9/18/2019 05:55 AM

Falconer that was a terrific post. This whole situation does make me truly sad. The OP came to this site seeking advice and then argued against nearly every morsel given.

My heart aches for the BH. Not only for what he has already endured but for what is surely to come.

BeyondRage posted 9/18/2019 10:08 AM

And lastly, I believe you stopped posting because you did jump start the affair and in all probability sleeping with the OM again. Even the very thought of it breaks my heart. Even the most harden male veterans on this thread I am sure feels deeply for your husband, because it is very hard to read what is being done to their fellow man, what he is being reduced to!

No Way to know this unless she responds to below

How about just answering a simple yes/no question or two

HAS YOUR OM CALLED YOU AT WORK AGAIN???
IF SO, DID YOU TAKE THE CALL?? Or hang up?
DID YOU TELL YOUR HUSBAND AGAIN?

Im sure that will be too difficult for you to answer but i am guessing some here might be interested in if you have even made an attempt to end your affair yet for real.

Last time she stated anything relavant she acknowledged OM is still calling her whining and a number of people asked the above. She absolutely REFUSES to respond and answer these simple questions so how can anyone not guess she is still cheating. of course, probably she thinks conversing with OM at work is not cheating.

I stated at first her husband is not helping her help him. Thats obviously because he is too paralyzed and afraid she will leave him to do anything but put his head in the sand

She talls him she fucked OM and has been repeatedly, then tells him she will not do anything to insure no contact, and his reaction is

"I'm disappointed"

Any other BH on here that would calmly have that reaction?????

This will not end well for this poor guy unless he just accepts what is happening which he apparently chooses to do. Nothing anyone says here will change that. Very sad for him.

Zugzwang posted 9/19/2019 09:22 AM

because it is very hard to read what is being done to their fellow man, what he is being reduced to!
She can't change him and she can't make him stay or do anything. If he is being reduced to anything, she most likely sees it only as his choice and his problem. She can change herself. She can choose to stop taking advantage of him, manipulating him, and in a way control him because she knows he is so dependent. She isn't ignorant of this fact anymore and if any thing she knows it is happening and taking advantage of it in a very selfish way. She is putting the control in his hands knowing full well he isn't healthy enough to really make healthy decisions. This is what makes you entitled, selfish, deceitful, manipulative, and yes a controller. Because you know and you don't care. Do you really want to be this person? You know your are abusing someone, yet you don't care because you are leaving it up to the abused to get away.

VioletElle posted 9/20/2019 21:40 PM

HAS YOUR OM CALLED YOU AT WORK AGAIN???†
IF SO, DID

I haven't responded to this because I never said he ever did call me at work. I was just making rhe point that he could. That stuff is so far away from the root of the problem it's not worth addressing. The point was and is, that if the desire remains all the blocks and paranoia in the world won't change it.

That stuff isn't relevant or helpful in the least. Nor are baseless assumtions. I was asked a few times what I'm getting out of this and the answer is very little. That is why i stopped responding.

The conclusions people jump to here are as sad as they are ridiculous. The one about cuckolding, used without a hint irony, was quite funny though.

[This message edited by VioletElle at 9:41 PM, September 20th (Friday)]

Falconer posted 9/20/2019 23:34 PM

You may find our responses funny, but I can assure you that noone is amused with yours. In fact, it is quite sad that you canít simply say ď no, I am no longer contacting or sleeping with the OMĒ.

Instead, you take the time to make yet another post that criticizes and even ridicules a message that was only posted to give you a different perspective and even attempted to plead with you to spare your husband from further heartache and agony. And after a respond like yours to that, words kind of lose its meaning. I feel very sorry for your husband.

[This message edited by Falconer at 12:05 AM, September 21st (Saturday)]

Justsomelady posted 9/21/2019 00:13 AM

Another absence and then defensive post from VE with no answers or questions or navel gazing about her whys or progress with avoiding him.

ETA - take that partially back there is one substantive thing she mentions about desire. Go on. That is worth looking at. I also feel some lingering desire and it is something Iím working on. I donít act on it and continue to reach out to support in my life and talk about it and to reframe what this OM truly is to be so interested in a MW. Some questions ti think about and answer if you feel like it of course, and as they are deemed relevant. Are you in contact or more? Why are you so drawn to him and what purpose does interacting or obsessing over him provide to you. What do you think you are not getting at home that you get there? Is that something you communicate to your spouse? What is missing in you that makes you want him still? What drew you to your husband and what attracts you now?

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 12:46 AM, September 21st (Saturday)]

Falconer posted 9/21/2019 00:42 AM

She is still sleeping with the OM and she ran out of excuses as why she continues to do this to her loving husband, and she is tired of hearing how wrong it is to go about doing things this way. She wants to enjoy her life without hearing our ď nonsense banterĒ and ď constant badgeringĒ !

Yet, despite of all her defensiveness, her anger and outward contempt for our responses, something urged her to post her story to this website. Because she knew deep inside that what she was doing was very wrong even by her own standards and she wanted to stop. She needed someone to knock some sense into her but when that actually happens, her pride and strong character gets in the way! The same pride that will make her serve her husband the divorce papers if he dares to stand up for himself in any meaningful way, even when she knows that he would be well within his rights to do so.

I believe she wants to do the right thing, she just doesnít know how, because by her own admission, she has been this way all her life and never had to face any consequences for it. She wants answers but when she is given them, she refuses to do the necessary soul searching and engage in fact-finding conversations with an open heart. Instead, she chooses to use this platform just for venting and getting some of the guilt that was bottled up inside of her off her chest.

I hope that can change, for her and for her husbandís sake....

BeyondRage posted 9/21/2019 01:08 AM

The title of this thread you started is ďĒAvoiding RelapseĒ
And the question is how do you get rid of the feelings?
Like thereís a pill to take

Doesnít take too much common sense to start with not talking to your boyfriend any more ever . But you donít do that.

Then you come here and tell us all that hubby is just disappointed . And that you love him but if he does anything but be disappointed you gladly divorce him

You last conversation if weíre to believe that you told OM you didnít want to meet for sex right now but you didnít tell him if he continues to call you you will file charges on him and get a RO, which no one at your work would know a damm thing about

So the question that all are asking is
Have you avoided another ďrelapseĒ ??
And you absolutely refuse to answer that ?
Yes or no?

BraveSirRobin posted 9/21/2019 05:19 AM

I've actually read some desperate posts here from VioletElle, honest posts where she's been filled with fear and self-loathing over her betrayal of her husband. Unfortunately, they generally roll in when she's in active (or at least recent) contact with the OM. As long as he's pleading with her to restart the A, and feeding the side of her that needs to feel powerful, she's open to feeling guilt and anguish. The hole in her is plugged enough to turn to other emotions.

So while everyone else here is convinced that she's back in the affair, I suspect she's coming on here in snarky, superior mode because she's not in contact with OM, and she's salty because he didn't keep up the pursuit. She blocked him, but she assumed that he would keep trying to reach her anyway because he just can't be without her. She predicted he'd come whining to her about being cut out, like it would be an irritation instead of her fervent hope. Because in that scenario, she'd have all the power, and that's really what the A was about for her.

But in fact, he's given up. There are no calls to work to try and end run her blockade. Suddenly, it appears that she wasn't all that indispensable. And so coming here and taking pot shots at the posters who have it all wrong is a way to feel powerful again. It's no affair, it's a pretty pale substitute for the fun she had with OM, but at least she can roll her eyes and tell us to stop whining. Because it's really painful to realize that OM didn't show up and audition for that role after all.

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