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Avoiding Relapse

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tinlizzie posted 8/28/2019 09:15 AM

But you using information to control your BS is okay?

Your kids already know. My WW didn't think ours did, but they are way more smart and observant than probably either of you give them credit for. They may not want to believe it, but they know.

BeyondRage posted 8/28/2019 09:16 AM

If he cheated on me and I presented him with divorce papers I would expect him to sign them. I can't imagine being selfish enough not to respect that sort of request after such a thing. I wouldn't be interested in hearing anything else. Going to a lawyer and drafting papers means I want a divorce, it wouldnt be a tactic or a way to show I wanted anything other than a divorce. Anything less would be cruel. That doesn't mean I don't value the marriage, it means that if I were presented with divorce papers I would understand and sign them without issue.

Very easy to say since you have a husband who has his head in the sand hoping against hope that you will end this which you will not.

Again as non answer. How is it making a scene in the work place if you just refuse to answer if you see his caller ID, refuse to answer a voice mail, and avoid any conversation until OM realizes he might as well be talking to a rock. How is that humiliating. But of course, we wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of a guy who has no problem continuing to try to entice you into more betrayals. And of course that assumes Hikingout's theory is wrong, which since she is pretty damm astute might be correct.

You still do not answer

ARE YOU GOING TO TALK TO HIM AND BREAK NC again if he calls. Pretty simple question and can't see it as threatening. You not us, stated that he will whine and complain so the answer seems to be yes you will continue to talk to him.

People, both waywards and betrayed here whp don
t know each other keep trying to ask you why you absolutely refuse to cut this man out of your life. And no one is buying all the humiliation crap.

Do you have any idea how your husband really feels when you tell him to are still talking to OM. I guess he should be counting his lucky stars your clothes haven't come off again yet. And again, that is if Hikingout is wrong in stating that you are probably still talking to him all along here. Do you think that is not humiliating for your husband regardless what he says. He is going to find out the hard way playing ostrich will be very harmful.

If you can't break contact permanently, the first requirement in every book of any consequence regarding infidelity, its just a matter of time until you meet up again.

You are an intelligent woman so why don't you be truthful with yourself and tell your husband you want an open marriage and you want to continue to see OM. At least that way your husband gets to make an educated choice instead of wondering when the hammer will drop again. You keep stating you do not want OM but refuse time after time no matter what anyone suggests to do anything but cake eat.

I am sure that all the comments would take a dramatic turn if you came back here and said you either have ghosted OM at work ( telling anyone not necessary- just hang the damm phone up) or if you told him under no circumstances is he ever to contact you again and put that in writing and share it with your husband.

But I doubt thats going to happen. You want to keep the door ajar so if you get the urge its easy.

VioletElle posted 8/28/2019 09:17 AM

AP was a rough sex/dominating kind of guy that rang your chimes exactly the way you want them rung. BS is a nice guy, giving in the bedroom but not interested in (or even knows about) your particular kink.

You like the feelings AP gives you but that's running up against what your integrity tells you is wrong. As long as BS gives you feelings that are in the range of acceptable to you, you'll remain with him and settle for the fantasy of AP in the privacy of your mind and the little thrill of him trying to contact you from time to time

Yeah, it sort of is like that. I don't feel good about that, but yeah. But no, I am not trying to set up acceptable limits to hold onto a fantasy. I don't want to live like that. I don't want to contact him from time to time either. I never initiate the contact, ever. I have told him in no uncertain terms that I don't want to speak to him, hear about his problems or be there for him. I don't see my husband as a pushover who in some way deserves this. He doesn't. Disrepecting him is the worst thing I've ever done and I get how bad it was. It hurt him very deeply in ways I can't begin to imagine. I can't stop being infatuated with someone without at least admitting it's a problem. It's a selfish and it's immature but turning it off is not like flipping a switch.

Wool94 posted 8/28/2019 09:29 AM

†It's a selfish and it's immature but turning it off is not like flipping a switch.

But it can be! When you tell a toddler not to touch a hot stove and they do it anyway. They learn their lesson! Do you know why?

Because they've suffered the consequences.

You are like the toddler who hasn't had any consequences from playing with the fire.

Therefore, you keep playing and playing.

If you see a blind friend about to walk off a cliff, do you keep encouraging him to go forward until he falls to his death?

Of course not. That's what we're trying to get you to see.

You are 3 steps from the ledge. STOP!

[This message edited by Wool94 at 9:30 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)]

BeyondRage posted 8/28/2019 09:30 AM

Yeah, it sort of is like that. I don't feel good about that, but yeah. But no, I am not trying to set up acceptable limits to hold onto a fantasy. I don't want to live like that. I don't want to contact him from time to time either. I never initiate the contact, ever. I have told him in no uncertain terms that I don't want to speak to him, hear about his problems or be there for him. I don't see my husband as a pushover who in some way deserves this. He doesn't. Disrepecting him is the worst thing I've ever done and I get how bad it was. It hurt him very deeply in ways I can't begin to imagine. I can't stop being infatuated with someone without at least admitting it's a problem. It's a selfish and it's immature but turning it off is not like flipping a switch.

If you have told him in bold exactly that way, it appears he is either stupid, or convinced if he keeps after you eventually you will meet him.
That pretty much starts to come close to being a stalker.

Again, youve told him to get lost. If that is true and he refuses, what are your options.??
(1) continue to break NC which you are doing by even talking to him.
(2) Get it stopped by any means necessary.

You are choosing to continue to hurt your husband rather than using by any means necessary.

As far as your felling not disappearing overnight, that is not unusual. But my guess is its a lot easier with NC, which is why everyone keeps telling you that.

And you are too smart to not understand that having sex with a man other than your husband does not come with a guarantee that you will not endure some pain and have to suck it up and fight through it without continuing to deceive your husband or hurt him more.

Chaos posted 8/28/2019 09:44 AM

It's a selfish and it's immature but turning it off is not like flipping a switch.

If the switch is stuck - unplug. If the plug is stuck - cut the cord. You do anything to get it to stop.

I ask with sincerity - what are you hoping to accomplish here on SI?

strugglebus posted 8/28/2019 09:45 AM

Send an NC letter with your husband's approval. Include that any further contact will be considered harassment and will involve escalation to the authorities.

This is not conflict. This is stating a boundary.

Boundaries are a weak point for many people but especially anyone who has an affair.

You have to set boundaries with this random man. You have no problem setting them for your husband in hypothetical situations (if he did x I would divorce etc) but in the hypothetical of the OM contacting you at work you hesitate - dig into why that is.

You say that if your husband came to your work to let them know this person might contact you inappropriately that's mixing personal with professional and would be a line crossed. However, when it comes to the OM contacting you at work to try and get you to put out (very very unprofessional and personal) there's no line crossing consequences.

Is that because you feel that having to admit that you have conducted yourself inappropriately is worse than actually being inappropriate at work? (A private call when the subject matter/intent is sexual in nature is 10000% inappropriate)

BraveSirRobin posted 8/28/2019 10:40 AM

What purpose could it serve to tell children, barely teenagers, that their mother is at fault for their future condition? Using them as leverage to make me do what you want? That isn't going to help. It wouldn't even work out well for him. Everyone would just see him as vindictive, controling and wrong.
It's interesting that you believe this, when every single person who actually does know about your A is telling you that your behavior is vindictive, controlling and wrong.

I don't think the A is the only fantasy world you inhabit.

VioletElle posted 8/28/2019 10:48 AM

Your behavior is vindictive, controlling and wrong

Wrong, sure, I mean obviously. But how is it vindictive? I have nothing I'm looking for revenge for or hoping to feel some sort of satisfsction for inflicting suffering. That is nonsense. Vindictive behaviour is about spiteful actions to get back at someone, not simply poor conduct.

How is it controling? I said many times that I would listen to what he says and respect his wishes. Right now, he says he loves me and wants to be married to me. I haven't used any sort of tactic to make him say this. How is that controling?

DoinBettr posted 8/28/2019 10:52 AM

How about some tools to try out that I know work.

Write out a list of the 30 ways your husband is better than the AP. Keep the list and share it with your husband.

Have your husband write out 30 reasons he isn't leaving you. This is to have him give you a portable self esteem booster. (You need it)

Write out what this man almost cost you. Write out what you think your life will be if your husband does leave you. This is to at least let the consequences of screwing up again sink in.

Lastly, fix the sex with your husband. If it was wild and crazy with the AP, then make it wilder and crazier with your husband. Every guy is ok being aggressive, he just wants permission. Don't give me that, "He isn't like that." I bet you have shot him down before and have become more open minded with time. Yeah, every girl is like that. Take off the safety rails at home. I have recommended this before and tried it at home. Pull up some porn without looking at it in advance. Then go for everything they do in the video. Then you are having Pornstar sex. Even try to do fun/funny things like copying what the people are saying. After starting off with some easy stuff graduate up with comfort levels. Even critique in a fun way what you 2 did better and worse afterward. And laugh about it.

Now for the motivation no WS wants. Just like you aren't doing all the work because it is hard, what if your husband is doing the same.
I know 2 marriages now that ended the second the kids left the house. Both were due to past cheating, by different gender spouses, not linked. The reason they didn't leave in the beginning is because they said staying was easier and they "loved" their spouse.
Once the difficulty changed (Kids left/house paid off) and they got into a fight with their spouse (Love lowered), they filed. They had been just waiting for a time to step out.
All WS think they will grow old with their spouse. So don't make this the reason that doesn't happen.

You can fix this. You are getting better with every post. Get into some IC to fix your "Why".

Sooner or later your BH is going to get into the anger phase. You seem like you won't handle that well. So get a head start like the people here have been trying to help you do.

Carissima posted 8/28/2019 11:19 AM

It's controlling because you're limiting the amount of knowledge your husband has to make a fully informed decision to stay in the marriage.

Would his decision be the same if he knew you had just blocked your AP but not on all avenues of communication. This despite him thinking NC had already been established. Does he know you still intend to take your AP's calls and emails at work in case you're embarrassed and want to avoid confrontation. You simply put the phone down without engaging in conversation and delete emails without opening them.

Withholding information is a tactic, you are manipulating your husband's decision making progress to be in your favour.

I had stayed off this thread because, honestly to me you come across as non-empathetic and manipulative. You will accept R but it's very much on your terms!

HellFire posted 8/28/2019 11:41 AM

I don't understand how you can think you haven't been at all controlling. Read back through your posts. Notice how often you talk about what you will not tolerate from your husband. From having to apologize to you for being angry about your affair, to how he better make sure the kids don't sense there's a problem. The man is clearly doing the pick me dance. And you feel entitled to just that. You refuse consequences for your deplorable behavior, yet talk about how you would respond if your husband steps a toe out of line.

You talk about how you wont be in a marriage where you feel resentful, and if your husband is resentful about the repeated abuse you have inflicted on him, then he better keep it to himself.

I said it earlier, and you dismissed it. But your husband has yet to share his full devastation with you. Because you have made it clear that you don't care enough about him to listen.

Your husband contacting your work and telling them this man is harassing you at work is unacceptable. But the OM calling you,at work, to lure you back into his bed is ok.

Earlier you said if your husband did something, it would be worse than "just having an affair. " I think that sums it up. You dont see your affair as any big deal.


Honestly, you don't sound like a woman who loved her husband.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:46 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 8/28/2019 12:10 PM

It's controlling because you have rules that set what you need above what he needs (NC at all costs), for no other reason than that you don't want to embarrass yourself and don't see why you should have to. "Yah yah yah" (a phrase you've outright said here), you've humiliated him, but anything that humiliates you is an obvious deal breaker. It's not ok for him to tell the kids the truth about their mother for his own healing, but it's fine for you to insist that they be lied to for your comfort and benefit. As you've said yourself, you've "always gotten away with everything, you don't know why, that's just how it is." You expect that the whole world will follow that pattern if he exposes you, so he'd better not try. I'm pointing out that all empirical research to date shows that it he takes control, he will keep it, along with the support of everyone who hears what you did.

You once wrote this when someone suggested that your BH should have the right to ask that you not have contact with your sister because she knew about the affair when it was ongoing. Note that I understand he didn't want that, but this was your argument for why it was absurd to think he even had the right to dictate terms.

To me that is isolating with the end of controlling. I find it utterly distasteful, deliberately hurtful and vindictive. I couldn't possibly love someone who attempted anything of the sort.
If you believe it's vindictive for him to establish boundaries that make him feel better, without regard to your feelings, how is it not vindictive for you to do the same? Since writing that, you broke NC, even though you know what devastation that causes, because it's what makes you feel good. Now you're establishing a boundary that your workspace is inviolate, without regard to the painful consequences to your BH if OM continues to try to contact you there. One of the definitions of vindictive is "intended to cause anguish or hurt." You only seem able to see that intention if you believe it's directed towards you.

VioletElle posted 8/28/2019 12:32 PM

I said it would be vindictive for him to seek revenge. Not sure how that can be twisted into saying I don't think he's entitled to set boundaries. Give me a break.

Do this or I will try to make the kids hate you is a threat. Plain and simple. I have not threatened him ever. I have boundaries. Everyone has boundaries. I have never told him to act this way or I am doing this. I simply stated that if he did act a certain way, a way he has not acted, then I would do X. I never threatened him and told him not to act in this way.

By all means, if he chooses to go on some sort of disclosure rampage he can go ahead and do so. I have not told him that if he does that he can expect divorce papers. I mean that's what would happen but not because he defied me, but because he chose an action of his own free will. That isn't controling.

I'm not keeping information from him either. He knows everything.

I've done things that are wrong, careless, immoral, dishonest and all sorts of other less than noble sentiments. They were not done as an act of revenge or in the interets of controling anyone. How can I control someone else I can't even control myself? That's just nonsense.

[This message edited by VioletElle at 12:35 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)]

farsidejunky posted 8/28/2019 12:43 PM

I've done things that are wrong, careless, immoral, dishonest and all sorts of other less than noble sentiments.

You keep repeating statements such as the one I quoted above.

Yet...

You seem singularly unwilling to actually do anything about it. Then you assign grandiose labels to any semblance of submission to your husband.

Yet your AP is clearly (at a minimum) emotionally dominant.

Simply put, your unwillingness to submit to your husband is the single largest stumbling block you face. By submission, I mean acquiescence and transparency.

You very clearly do not respect him. At least, not to the degree to which you respect the AP.

gmc94 posted 8/28/2019 12:45 PM

Oh VE - my heart breaks for you. Really, it does.
You are getting a lot of good, solid advice. Yet you come back with snark and defensiveness and sometimes even insulting those who are trying to help.
"Give me a break"? Give US a break!

What do you hope to get here on SI?

ibonnie posted 8/28/2019 12:50 PM

You're asking your BH to be complicit in lying and covering up your affair. You are asking him to be dishonest. When somone asks him why he looks so tired/how he lost weight/is he okay, because he's been distracted lately, his options are to 1. don't open up to anyone, bury his trauma and continue to cover up your affair, or 2. be served with divorce papers because you'd rather continue to live a lie than admit who you are and what you're capable of.

It's not about trying to make your children hate you. It's so when they ask what's wrong for the millionth time, because kids pick up on this shit, your BH doesn't have to continue putting a fake smile on his face and lying to them.

I have boundaries. Everyone has boundaries.

What boundaries do you have for your AP? Have you actually blocked every way he could possibly reach you, including at work, yet?

How can I control someone else I can't even control myself?†

And I'm sorry, but which is it? You have boundaries that you're perfectly capable of enforcing when it comes to your BH and marriage, but you can't control yourself when it comes to your AP???

Sanibelredfish posted 8/28/2019 13:34 PM

I ask with sincerity - what are you hoping to accomplish here on SI?

For some reason, Iím reminded of the episode of the Sopranos where Dr. Melfi stops treating Tony because it enabled his bad behavior...

[This message edited by Sanibelredfish at 1:45 PM, August 28th (Wednesday)]

blahblahblahe posted 8/28/2019 14:34 PM

I post rarely, mostly out of caution for causing harm.

I hope you understand the point that is trying to be made to you, unfortunately I have doubts possess the emotional intelligence.

Undergraduate level semantics and obfuscations are a waste of time and the resources of the people whom have tried to help you.

YOU have caused great harm to your family,this cannot be disputed.

YOU are being seen in the light for who you really are, this cannot be disputed.

YOU are completely at fault, nobody else.

YOU have a choice, one that your husband did not have in this matter.

YOUR choice is simple. Either fix the damage you have done to your family or they will all have to live with what YOU have done. This also cannot be disputed.

Start with the thread below,it is from someone whom actually understands accountability and consequences.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=639847&AP=281

I believe everyone can redeem themselves (even someone like myself), the question are they really willing to see who they really are and what they have done.

Nobody wants to be the villain of their life story, however it would be very difficult for an objective person to see you in any other light.

Carissima posted 8/28/2019 14:52 PM

By all means, if he chooses to go on some sort of disclosure rampage he can go ahead and do so. I have not told him that if he does that he can expect divorce papers. I mean that's what would happen but not because he defied me, but because he chose an action of his own free will. That isn't controling.

The use of the word defied says it all!

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