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Avoiding Relapse

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VioletElle posted 8/27/2019 15:01 PM

We used to work together. The affair started after he got a job somewhere else. We stayed in touch and started meeting socially as friends at first. So I don't work with him, but he is able to contact me using my work email and I can't really block that and am not willing to raise anything at work that may even be seen as possibly related.

I doubt he ever would, but he could make my life more miserable if he wanted to.

thatwilldo posted 8/27/2019 15:10 PM

I agree with what Hikingout says below:


He needs to see you mean business, and that you do not under any circumstances want for him to contact you again. Involve your H, have him read it before sending.

Get your husband involved. Write a NC letter with his help. Give him some agency in his life. Tell the jerk in no uncertain terms that you don't want to hear from him ever again...and, yes, get the police involved, if need be.

BeyondRage posted 8/27/2019 17:07 PM

So I don't work with him, but he is able to contact me using my work email and I can't really block that and am not willing to raise anything at work that may even be seen as possibly related.

Violet

No stop sign . BH here. Recent. So you are still infatuated with OM and even though you blocked him, which can be undone in an instant, you absolutely refuse to make sure he cannot contact you at work. So I guess no one at your work knew what was going on.
But lets take what you said as acceptable. How come you state when he calls you at work he will whine and complain.???
DON'T YOU GET THAT IF YOU CONVERSE WITH HIM AT WORK AND EVEN LISTEN TO HIM WHINE YOU ARE CHEATING AGAIN AND BREAKING NC.

What about if you just said nothing and hung up the phone. ????? No whining to listen to, nothing but stone cold dial tone for him to listen to. Think about it. The last conversation you apparently had with him you basically told him no sex this time but no problem asking again whenever he feels like it.

Tell me, why would a guy you have been having sex with stop calling you as long as he believes all he needs to do is catch you in a bad moment and youre back in bed. What you seem to be doing is like an alcoholic that continues to leave a bottle of Bourbon on the counter. You have the ability to reject him in no uncertain terms and you have still not done that. Blocking your personal number means nothing given your refusal on the work thing since I wouldn't be surprised if he believes you only did that because your husband told you to.

He will continue to call you until he absolutely is convinced there is never any more sex to be had, and why wouldn't he???? You have not in no uncertain terms stated that to him and by your actions made him believe a word of it.

What I will say next some may disagree with but i am going to say it. Your husband it NOT making it easier for you to get over this "infatuation" because of his inaction and rugsweeping. So I am going to ask you a question to ask yourself and no problem if you do not share the answer to anyone but you.

But first i think you said you are in therapy and he is to. If i am wrong i apologize. What kind of quack MC or IC doesn't press you on some of the things that others have brought up here and that I just stated?? There is an idiot i had the misfortune of googling named Hartley I believe whose advice for men whose wives are cheating is to shower them with affection, let the affair continue, tell them how beautiful they are as they leave to have sex with their boyfriends, and "woo' them back with love. I almost puked writing that.

How much infatuation would you still have for your OM if your husband had
(1) presented you with divorce papers when you broke NC, and told you he would stop the divorce if your actions warranted it
(2) told you that you and he are going to your job and getting your employer to tell this OM that if he continues to contact you there that they will refer a complaint to law enforcement.
(3) made YOU tell your families what is going on and that you may be the reason your child or children grow up in a divorce home. And all you have to do to stop that from happening is to refuse to talk to this man under ANY circumstances.
You still think with those consequences facing you you would still be "pining" for OM. If you are sincere and love your husband and family, I believe those consequences would go a long way towards helping you put this out of your mind,.

But you really have no consequences. From your husbands last reaction, it appears if you have sex with OM again he will still do nothing because the desire to keep your family intact overrides and other issue to him. Right now, he has accepted a semi open marriage in that he has not DEMANDED in no uncertain terms that you have no contact anymore and yet everyone reading this knows OM can contact you at work at will and it appears you will listen to his whining.

I also disagree with getting your husband involved in any no contact letters or calls. It has to be YOU . Any OM guy that has had you wrapped around his finger for no strings sex and with your last response to him is going to believe its all a game that you are being forced to do. Your husband does not need the embarrassment of some OM laughing at him and continuing to call you at work.

You can fix this if you really want to. Doesn't seem like you want to endure any personal discomfort and embarrassment to do that.

I apologize for the length of this. I hope you get it right.

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 5:21 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)]

Wool94 posted 8/27/2019 18:25 PM

I can't remember and am too exhausted to go back and look right now, but is he married?

[This message edited by Wool94 at 6:27 PM, August 27th (Tuesday)]

hikingout posted 8/27/2019 19:18 PM

I just want to clarify when I said get your husband involved I mean just getting what you are going to send approved by him. The reason that is important is 1) he needs to know you are going to contact the ap b) he needs to know what you are going to say 3) if it’s not firm enough he will tell you that it isn’t. Do not attempt to contact the OM without agreeing to do so with your husband and him knowing everything that is said. Do it in an email or via text, not by phone.

Wool94 posted 8/27/2019 20:11 PM

hikingout is absolutely correct.


I just want to clarify when I said get your husband involved I mean just getting what you are going to send approved by him. The reason that is important is 1) he needs to know you are going to contact the ap b) he needs to know what you are going to say 3) if it’s not firm enough he will tell you that it isn’t. Do not attempt to contact the OM without agreeing to do so with your husband and him knowing everything that is said. Do it in an email or via text, not by phone.

Otherwise, I really agree with BeyondRage's excellent post.

VioletElle posted 8/27/2019 21:14 PM

(1) presented you with divorce papers when you broke NC, and told you he would stop the divorce if your actions warranted it 
(2) told you that you and he are going to your job and getting your employer to tell this OM that if he continues to contact you there that they will refer a complaint to law enforcement. 
(3) made YOU tell your families what is going on and that you may be the reason your child or children grow up in a divorce home. And all you have to do to stop that from happening is to refuse to talk to this man under ANY circumstances. 

1) Understood, accepted and respected his decision. I wouldn't have liked it, but there isn't anything left to say at that point.

2) Made that decision for him. There is no way he's humiliating me and himself at my work. It's a professional environment and while I wouldn't get fired, it would not accomplish anything.

3) He can't make me do anything. If he wanted to tell them then he could go ahead and tell them. I'm not about to be threatned in my own home. If he were to use the kids as pawns he would be past the point of redeemable and much worse than if he just had an affair.

Thankfully, he isn't like any of this and none of them have a chance of happening. The sort of resentment that 2 and 3 would build is unimaginable. There is no way I'd submit to blackmail, I really don't care about the circumstance that led to it.

sassylee posted 8/27/2019 22:11 PM

And there’s the problem. You’re very willing to give up the marriage. Your husband is far more invested than you are....and since you’re quite willing to agree to a divorce - why give up your self-soothing, family-damaging coping mechanisms?

As a BW - I wanted a divorce because my husband wouldn’t give up contact with OW. If he had coldly stated “I respect your decision” - I’d have known there was nothing to save. You are so detached.

BeyondRage posted 8/27/2019 22:53 PM


Default Posted: 11:11 PM, August 27th (Tuesday), 2019 View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage
And there’s the problem. You’re very willing to give up the marriage. Your husband is far more invested than you are....and since you’re quite willing to agree to a divorce - why give up your self-soothing, family-damaging coping mechanisms?

Violet

Sassylee hit it on the head. You have continued to use your work environment as a reason not to make any real serious attempt to get this guy out of your life. Blocking him on your personal cell phone doesn’t mean a damm thing and you know that . All he has to do is call your work . And it’s clear that if he calls you there, which he will , you show no inclination to not listen again to his invitation to have sex with him or his whining that you won’t.
And it appears you will not regard that as breaking NC since you have not initiated the contact. The big question I guess is will you tell your husband again if you do will his reaction be the same.
The bottom line is as Sassylee said, you’re willing to stay in this marriage as long as you are not forced to totally get this guy out of your life.
I guess just hanging up the phone and ghosting him is also too difficult since you didn’t bother responding to that suggestion or is that blackmail too.
If your husband can live knowing that your OM can call you at will and you’ll talk to him , who are we to question that
They say that at some point anger sets in. Maybe if he gets there from disappointment your attitude might change .
All of this is not complicated
You refuse to end this affair and continuing to break NC is continuing the affair and you’re blaming it all on your work making it impossible

gmc94 posted 8/27/2019 22:59 PM

The sort of resentment that 2 and 3 would build is unimaginable. There is no way I'd submit to blackmail, I really don't care about the circumstance that led to it.
wow.

And there’s the problem. You’re very willing to give up the marriage. Your husband is far more invested than you are....and since you’re quite willing to agree to a divorce - why give up your self-soothing, family-damaging coping mechanisms?

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:00 PM, August 27th, 2019 (Tuesday)]

emergent8 posted 8/27/2019 23:13 PM

BS here. I will otherwise stay off of your thread because despite the fact you don’t put up a stop sign, you don’t seem super accepting of BS advice.

If your husband were to post in the JFO section here, the almost universal advice from the knowledgeable and experienced group of BS (who have nothing against you personally and have no particular interest in seeing you suffer) but have collectively seen it all would be #1, #2 and #3. Why? Because you are in very much in the fog and the daylight is the best disinfectant and the absolute best way to force a foggy WS into the light. .

You say you *want* to forget about your AP and that you know your infatuation with him is harmful to your relationship with you husband but you express indignant opposition to anything even resembling a consequence. Your husband’s ego has been grievously wounded. You have certainly humiliated him, and he is so injured that somehow in this state, the worst thing he can imagine is anyone else knowing. Yet you resist the abject “humiliation” of facing the truth and natural consequences of your choices at work. You have been asked this in a number of different ways in relation to a number of different but why do you believe

I truly do not say any of this to be mean or to project any of my own shit on to your situation. I am thankfully a BS whose WS was all-in immediately post-D-Day and so none of the mistakes you are currently making are relevant to me. Moreover, I am not suggesting that you deserve to be humiliated because you caused his humiliation. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind (or something like that). Moreover, i know too well there is absolutely nothing you or your husband could possibly do right now to “even the score”.

What I see when I read your threads though is a WS who know she is fucking up and wants to do better, but is unwilling to admit what the right things are, and a BS who is terrified to allow himself what he is feeling because he is afraid and ashamed and at the end of the day, knows his wife’s limitations. Neither of you are acting in a way that will result in a healthy relationship in the long term. I urge you to continue as best as you can to demonstrate vulnerability with your husband and to truly create a safe environment for him to do the same. Good luck.

RocketRaccoon posted 8/27/2019 23:22 PM

Who pursues a married woman with children? It's really bad behaviour. I get people feeling lonely or thinking they have a connection with someone, but he's mistaken. He doesn't even really know me. The real me is the one at home, and not the immature projection I am with him. It's that girl who I'm in love with and not him. But I'm not 22 anymore and she isn't good for me.

As to the bolded part of the quote, flip it around, and re-phrase it as, 'what married woman with children lets another person (apart from her husband) pursue her?'

Why are you trying to make it your AP's job to stop this? YOU have to do the work to stop things. YOU are the one that is behaving like a little immature girl with him. He did not make you behave that way.

Yes, you have finally blocked him after so long. Was it because you wanted to make it your AP's job to stop because you do not really want it to stop? If you truly wanted your betrayal to stop, then you would have immediately blocked off your AP on all channels.

I can't really block that and am not willing to raise anything at work that may even be seen as possibly related.

This is how the A will continue, because you want to keep channels of communication open. You value your ego/pride/'reputation' at work over your M.

You are still deep in wayward thinking, and until that mode of thinking can be changed, it is unlikely that you will get out of your A, as you will want to make excuses to perpetuate it.

EvolvingSoul posted 8/27/2019 23:22 PM

**posting as a member**

There is no way I'd submit to blackmail, I really don't care about the circumstance that led to it.
Substitute the word "consequences" for "blackmail" and this sentence concisely sums up your situation.

You have one foot out the door, he wants the marriage more than you, ergo you call the shots. All the shots.

Let me guess.

AP was a rough sex/dominating kind of guy that rang your chimes exactly the way you want them rung. BS is a nice guy, giving in the bedroom but not interested in (or even knows about) your particular kink.

You like the feelings AP gives you but that's running up against what your integrity tells you is wrong. As long as BS gives you feelings that are in the range of acceptable to you, you'll remain with him and settle for the fantasy of AP in the privacy of your mind and the little thrill of him trying to contact you from time to time. Any circumstance under which BS might assert himself, request things for his own healing that make you uncomfortable, pretty much anything but him taking the blame for the affair (which in your original thread you complained was making YOU feel crummy) and wanting to "move on" as quickly as possible, you're out. In short, you relate to these people, maybe all people, solely as sources of feelings for you.

Girl, I don't think you have any idea what it's like to be fully invested in a relationship. Vulnerability is scaring the shit out of you. You will half-ass it indefinitely until you learn how to put all your emotional eggs in one basket.

All in or all out. Anything else is a rip off for everyone in your life.

Proceed with conviction and valor.

hikingout posted 8/28/2019 07:54 AM

I am really dumbfounded at some of what you say, VioletElle. I have a theory that may not be right, but I am going to state it.

I think you haven't told your husband and that you have been in and out of contact with AP most all the time since you have gotten here. You are so deep in the fog it's the only explanation that makes sense. I know you told us you told him - but nothing you are saying really aligns with that idea.

You are calling consequences blackmail. I feel like if he knew or had all the facts, you would have had some consequences and be less shocked when some of these suggestions have been made. It would seem that you have the only BS ever that isn't really bothered by your affair in any real way that I can see listed in your posts.


Tell your husband (if you haven't)

Send NC letter with threats of restraining order

Allow your husband to expose the information to the OBS.

Stop pretending you don't know what the right thing to do is.

Stop blaming the lack of connection you feel with your husband on just your husband - you have a big part of that you need to own.


Otherwise, you are making a decision to stay in a state of true unhappiness that is only fueling the itching that you get to break NC.


Chaos posted 8/28/2019 08:10 AM

There is no way I'd submit to blackmail, I really don't care about the circumstance that led to it.

As a BS - I can tell you - that is one of the saddest things I've read. That you think him stating NC at all costs is akin to blackmail.

It is consequences. Sounds cliche but you can't play victim to circumstances you created.

IDGAF where you work - you stay NC. Face it. Today's work phones have caller ID. Today's work places have receptionists and many of them security guards. Using the work excuse is a bunch of malarkey. Frankly - it is a lame excuse. The only one who doesn't see it [or admit it for what it is] is you. Why is that?

I wish you would put some of the effort you spend here defending yourself on your BH and your family. I don't think you "in the fog" - I think you are actively in the affair [yes, refusing to nail that door shut is leaving it open which still counts as cheating].

BS and WS alike are all essentially saying the same things to you. We are all hoping one of us will get through. I'm beginning to think it is an exercise in futility.

I ask you - honestly - what are you hoping to accomplish here? What are you hoping SI can do for you? Perhaps it is your BH who should be posting. I wonder what he would say if he did...

Zugzwang posted 8/28/2019 08:20 AM

Agree with Evolving Souland RocketRaccoon.. Why do you say threaten and blackmail? Those aren't either. It is a hard line and rule to being in a relationship with your husband. It isn't punishment either. It is a consequence to being selfish indulgent and cruel. Period.

you’re willing to stay in this marriage as long as you are not forced to totally get this guy out of your life.
I think it goes beyond that. You are willing to stay in the marriage as long as you have no consequences that make you uncomfortable or feeling disrespect despite what you have done. Again, double standards. You expect to be treated fairly and with respect despite how you treat your husband. You have no problem dishing out shit and you will not take it back. Blackmail? Please. You are the ones that put your children into the situation of losing their family because of your choices. Not your husband. If you divorce, it will be your fault. Why can't you handle any humiliation? You certainly had no problem humiliating your husband. It isn't about what your husband would or wouldn't do because of his character. It is about your attitude about it. Your own mindset, if he would.

The sort of resentment that 2 and 3 would build is unimaginable. There is no way I'd submit to blackmail, I really don't care about the circumstance that led to it.
Yeah, okay..whatever. Here is your problem and attitude again. I feel bad for your husband. Here you are telling him again how to grieve. What you will not stand for. No matter what you dished out. You really don't think the cheating was that bad. You really don't care about the circumstances because no matter what it is, you don't believe you should have any consequence but divorce and you really don't care if that happens (which I thin you do and you are banking your husband is too codependent to do so), that your children's lives will forever be changed because of your pride. Where is your humility? You dish it and you can't take it. Should have stayed away from the fire. Your resentment is loud and clear already. You want to resent him even more for making your affair a big deal? He will hit the anger phase one day. It is amazing how a WS changes when their BS do. When you think you should be immune to what you dish out, it is called entitlement. What makes you so special compared to your husband?

Neither of you are acting in a way that will result in a healthy relationship in the long term.
yep

A reputation built on the affair is a toxic poison. I got humble. I posted an apology to my wife, friends, and family on FB. I thanked them for being there for my family when I should have. I ruined everything I had built up in myself and risked it all for my wife and family. My pride and reputation was scorched away. I felt disgusted with myself for even wanting to keep the false image of who I was. I wanted the whole world to know it was all my fault what I was putting my wife through and wanted to clear the false rumors that the APs were throwing around. I outed my APs on facebook too. All with my wife's permission of course. Of course she was confident enough to not be humiliated by my actions and conduct. She knew it was about me and not her.

Zugzwang posted 8/28/2019 08:23 AM

I for one don't think you are in the fog. I think you are in damage control trying to protect what little reputation you have left of outside respect. Mainly because you don't respect yourself, so "I be damned if anyone else shows me disrespect".

Californication posted 8/28/2019 08:38 AM

I think you haven't told your husband and that you have been in and out of contact with AP most all the time since you have gotten here.

Agreed. I’m a FBGF and super lurker but have read daily here for years. I can’t put an exact percentage on it, but the overwhelming majority of waywards who are on the fence have not maintained NC of some sort (physical, verbal, or mental). (In fact, there’s another current wayward who is ambivalent about his marriage and has admitted multiple times he does not maintain mental NC.)

One “yes” or “no” question for you VioletElle: Have you read “How to Help Your Spouse Heal From an Affair”?

*Edited for spelling

[This message edited by Californication at 8:40 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)]

VioletElle posted 8/28/2019 08:46 AM

If he cheated on me and I presented him with divorce papers I would expect him to sign them. I can't imagine being selfish enough not to respect that sort of request after such a thing. I wouldn't be interested in hearing anything else. Going to a lawyer and drafting papers means I want a divorce, it wouldnt be a tactic or a way to show I wanted anything other than a divorce. Anything less would be cruel. That doesn't mean I don't value the marriage, it means that if I were presented with divorce papers I would understand and sign them without issue.

As for making a scene where I work. Yeah, it's not worth that. There would be nothing left to talk about after that. There is just no sense in dragging personal issues into a professional environment. I really don't care how personal the issue. Work it out or don't. Making fools out of each other is not going to do that.

In terms of telling friends and family. It would depend on how it was done. If he disclosed the affir to get emotional support, that's fine. Friends and family can be good for this. If he threatned it in the spirit of being vindictive or to punish, well that's entirely different and that's how it was presented. What purpose could it serve to tell children, barely teenagers, that their mother is at fault for their future condition? Using them as leverage to make me do what you want? That isn't going to help. It wouldn't even work out well for him. Everyone would just see him as vindictive, controling and wrong.

VioletElle posted 8/28/2019 08:53 AM


As a BS - I can tell you - that is one of the saddest things I've read. That you think him stating NC at all costs is akin to blackmail

No, I think saying do this or I tell the kids to be blackmail, because, well, it would be. It is a threat using information to control someone. That is the very definition of blackmail.

[This message edited by VioletElle at 8:54 AM, August 28th (Wednesday)]

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