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Am I the ahole?

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AlphaSilvr posted 6/11/2019 20:55 PM

Yeah, there is the reddit forum... but I get support here, so here goes.

GF moved in a week ago after only dating 4 months (yeah, I know...)
This last weekend I tried to explain to her that my depression is an illness and I have to deal with it almost all the time (90% of the time is my term). She said that what she went through was worse and that she still gets up every morning and puts on a smile, so everyone should be able to do that.
I get up and do things every day, maybe not as much as every one, but I don't let Depression be an excuse for being lazy, even if I don't do as much as many could in a day.

Now today after grocery shopping, She and her DD (18) started to put the groceries away and it was understood that DD would make supper (tacos, nothing fancy). I felt I was in the way so I went and sat down.
Apparently this pissed her off since I wasn't going to help. She didn't tell me this outright, they talked in the kitchen among themselves. Then they asked about how to add things to the tacos, so I answered their questions.
I learned later she wanted me to get up and help her, not just answer the question.
Short version is that I told her I cannot read minds and she needs to tell me directly what she wants. She responded that she does not expect me to read her mind but I should know what she wants from her tone of voice. I told her that that is basically wanting me to read her mind.

I also said that I felt like her saying that She has it worse and she smiles so I should be able to, invalidates how I am feeling, especially since mine is borne of an illness I cannot 100% control. I said that I am depressed 90% of the time and if she cannot understand that, this cannot work.
She took that to mean I was done right then and there. She sent me a message later that said, "One fight and your done wow homelessness for me and my kids why did I take this leap I guess love isn't enough for you"

When she stormed out she said, "Thanks for making me feel like trash and sorry for interrupting your life". I did not mean to come across this way. Moving in together requires getting used to each other and how to communicate... but it all screams manipulation to me. Her son also came up after she stormed out and said, "Goodnight, mom said we may not be living here anymore".

I don't know... I am calmer and a friend helped me see that where she could be coming from and that I may have had poor timing in when I said things.

Side note: I want to try and work through this, but I cannot ignore that I felt a wave of relief when she is strongly hinting that she is not going to live here anymore... and I haven't even kicked her out.

Basically... am I the asshole?

EDIT: I brought up my depression before she moved in, almost right away after we started dating... it wasn't new information to her.

[This message edited by AlphaSilvr at 8:58 PM, June 11th (Tuesday)]

Sad in AZ posted 6/11/2019 21:20 PM

You have red flags and bottle rockets going off all over this post. I've been away for a while so you may have already been warned about this, but you jumped into a relationship way too soon--you were divorced, what? Two to three months before you started dating this woman? Then she moved in after four months? Conventional wisdom says to wait at least a year before dating after divorce. This almost always proves to be true.

I believe you are being manipulated by her. It's a good idea to step back from this relationship. If she will be truly homeless, you owe her something, but not a relationship. She has zero empathy for you, and that may be part of a pathology. She also recently inserted herself in your relationship with your child and caused trouble with your ex.

When you have children you have to be very, very careful about who you let into your and their life. Step back, heal and treat your depression. After a year has passed, take your time and get to know potential partners. Your health and well being are at risk.

ibonnie posted 6/11/2019 23:09 PM

No, you're not the "ahole," but I don't think you're making particularly wise decisions. Yes, moving in together is an adjustment, but hopefully you've already been used to someone AND know how to communicate before making that leap. You should also have gone on vacation somewhere together, and been in a situation where you haven't seen them at their best -- like on a 90į summer day, stranded on the side of the highway with a flat tire, waiting for a tow truck.

Why did she move in? Did you both discuss this for awhile (or at all, really) and feel like it was the right time and step in your relationship? Or did she need a place for her and her kids to move because there only other option was to be homeless?

I also find it extremely worrying that you think your relationship is serious enough to live together, but instead of viewing you two as a team, she's gossiping about you to her daughter in the kitchen and telling her son they're moving out without discussing it with you first.

Honestly, I'm not sure why you would want to continue in this situation or relationship, but if you do, I would suggest she and her children find their own place and you keep dating before deciding to cohabite again.

MamaDragon posted 6/12/2019 09:23 AM

nope you are not an ahole.

You have already said that you felt a wave relief knowing they might not be there...that is a powerful statement and you need to really listen to your gut. 9 times out of 10, your first gut reaction is right.

Because there are so many red flags with her that I am going to strongly urge you to seriously consider moving them out of your home. She is very manipulative and I can't help but think it will get worse. At the very least, maybe couple counseling to help with communication.

ibonnie posted 6/13/2019 13:56 PM

So what's the situation now? Is your GF + kids moving out, are they staying put, and are you two still dating?

emergent8 posted 6/13/2019 14:20 PM

My take: neither of you are assholes, but neither of you are correct either. This relationship and your communication issues scream dysfunctional and you BOTH have a lot of work to do on communication before you have a healthy relationship.

The things she did wrong:
- got mad at you without expressing her expectations that you would help.
- was dismissive of your depression. Failed to validate you and tried to compare/compete with her life circumstances.
- threw a hissy fit when you expressed your reservations
- Brought her kid into it

The things you did wrong:
- assumed it was okay for you to not help with dinner without explicitly saying so
- Failed to acknowledge her disappointment with you. (I'm not saying you should have read her mind, but you can still apologize for disappointing her, while explaining your actions)
- Deflecting her anger/derailing the argument by bringing up your own grievance (I don't understand why your depression was relevant to this conversation. Bringing it up at that time, certainly wasn't productive and was destined to make things worse).
- Brought up your reservations about the relationship during a heated conversation. This was manipulative in and of itself (I think its a valid concern, but you could have brought it up when you were both more calm).

Finally - I know where you're coming from but even by making the post you have, you're assuming that there is a winner/loser to your argument. It's not about being right/wrong, it's about living together peacefully and happily.

tushnurse posted 6/13/2019 17:44 PM

Alpha - You are not an asshole, but you are not making smart moves.

Listen R or D it don't matter it still takes time to heal. During that healing time, you need to focus on you and your well being. You also need to learn to be happy and fulfilled being alone.

In other words, you know what I'm going to say already, but for those watching at home... you jumped into a relationship far to soon.
So you need to dissolve this highly dysfunctional relationship, in which you are being blamed, for not being a mind reader, and learn to be happy being all by yourself. If it takes a year, great, if it takes 10 who cares.

Listen being completely happy as an individual is very vital in dealing with depression as well as building healthy relationships going forward.

Please please please focus on you, your happiness, your well being and then in a year or so, consider dating.

northeasternarea posted 6/13/2019 18:21 PM

Four months is not enough time to get to know someone, particularly when minor children are involved. No, I donít think you are an a hole.

Catwoman posted 6/13/2019 18:35 PM

I question the wisdom of any woman who would do this to her children.

When you decided to live together, did you lay out ground rules? Determine what might happen if it didn't work? Really TALK about this? Under what circumstances did the cohabitation decision come about?

I don't think the issue is depression as much as it is unrealistic expectations on both sides, much of that due to a very young relationship taken beyond what it could reasonably expect to deal with.

How old is this woman and how old are you?

Cat

AlphaSilvr posted 6/14/2019 11:18 AM

Things have been busy.


Finally - I know where you're coming from but even by making the post you have, you're assuming that there is a winner/loser to your argument. It's not about being right/wrong, it's about living together peacefully and happily.

I can see where I might have been thinking this, but in my mind I was hoping to get what I have gotten... outside perspective.

I did wrong, and I needed to have it pointed out. :) I am trying to be better and learn how to get rid of toxic traits since I am well aware I developed a lot of them from my marriage. I was wondering if she was being manipulative as well.

When you decided to live together, did you lay out ground rules? Determine what might happen if it didn't work? Really TALK about this? Under what circumstances did the cohabitation decision come about?

Nope, nope, nope, and horrible circumstances.

Let me explain.

1-3) We talked for a moment, and I kept asking her to talk but talks were very very short or didn't happen at all. Especially after she moved in, I am learning she doesn't really like to talk at all or thinks things are resolved after a few moments. (Yes, this causes alarms in my head)

4) She divorced her X because she learned he was abusing her DD (not his biological DD). They are pressing charges and she got a full statement of what had been going on in her house. She couldn't live in the house any longer without major depression and panic attacks happening all the time (its bad... really bad). We had talked about moving in together in the future and had started talking about how it would work. This happened and we upped the time table. I had reservations and I wanted to talk in depth first, but it got pushed off repeatedly and she said this is actually really slow for her (I was ignoring the red flags and focusing on helping her).

Hindsight is 20/20... so how do I undo this without causing a ton of harm to everyone involved? Things are... OK at the moment, but I do have in the back of my mind that this is just for the moment and really won't make it long term...

That seems horrible every time I think that... I feel like a horrible person and I once again got myself stuck where I don't want to be because I didn't listen to my gut.

ibonnie posted 6/14/2019 11:44 AM

She divorced her X because she learned he was abusing her DD (not his biological DD). They are pressing charges and she got a full statement of what had been going on in her house. She couldn't live in the house any longer without major depression and panic attacks happening all the time (its bad... really bad). We had talked about moving in together in the future and had started talking about how it would work. This happened and we upped the time table.

She had nowhere else to go? No family or friends near by? As a mother, no matter what the circumstances, I would have exploree other options first before moving my kids in with a guy I had only been dating four months.

(No offense... seriously, no offense) It's not unusual for pedophiles to target women with children, and to date them in order to get access to their children. I'm sure you're a good guy, but I would want to know someone MUCH better, especially given that her XH abused (not sure if you mean physically or sexually, but it doesn't matter) her daughter.

I had reservations and I wanted to talk in depth first, but it got pushed off repeatedly and she said this is actually really slow for her (I was ignoring the red flags and focusing on helping her).

How many times has she been married? Or does she just move in with each guy she's been dating? What does this mean!?!?! Four months of dating before moving in together, with children involved, is moving slow!?

You have kids, too, right? Do they spend the night with you with this new instafam? How are they adjusting to having these strangers in their space? Do the kids get along?

Hindsight is 20/20... so how do I undo this without causing a ton of harm to everyone involved?†

You have an honest conversation. You don't let her cut it short or change the subject. You tell her (if this is true) that you still want to date her (although tbh, I'm not sure why... you've mentioned quite a few red flags), but you think you rushed into living together, and as such, think it's detrimental to your relationship. You're not kicking her and her kids out tomorrow, but you'd like to help her search for an apartment/house for her and her kids to move into.

If you don't want to continue dating, then you say that you rushed into living with each other, but it's made you realize that you're not ready for a serious relationship at this time/you're not compatible/you've rushed things where the kids are concerned and they need more time, so (again) you're not kicking her out tomorrow, but you'd like to help her find an apartment/house so that she can hopefully move out by July, or August at the latest.

Catwoman posted 6/14/2019 11:46 AM

Hindsight is 20/20... so how do I undo this without causing a ton of harm to everyone involved?

I wouldn't call it harm. Hurt, yes, but not harm.

I would sit down with her (when the kids aren't around) and explain frankly to her that this isn't working and you would like to have her move out by X date. And then stick to it. Firmly.

Yes, she will be upset. Yes, she will likely lash out and make snide and rude comments to everyone involved until her departure. But there's no other way. This is really for the best for everyone involved.

Don't cave to her hystrionics or whatever manipulative tool she pulls out of her toolkit.

I give the advice above assuming that you are not both on a lease and that you are the sole owner/lessor of the domicile. If she's on the lease, that is going to be a whole 'nother kettle of fish. If you ARE the sole owner/lessor, I would consult with an attorney to find out what your rights are and what her rights would be before having this discussion.

Look, you can date without living together. I've been with my SO 9 years next month and while we've vacationed together and spent lots of nights together, we don't live together. And it's just fine. He needs a LOT more alone time than I do, and I recognize that. We have a great time together, but we also have a goodly amount of time for ourselves. I like it.

Cat

HalfTime2017 posted 6/21/2019 13:34 PM

She was looking for a man to play Daddy and instafam with and you were too passive to sit her down. She dodged the heavy conversations needed, so that she can wiggle her way into moving in.

It sounds like her kids are old enough now, DD is 18, not sure about son, but they are not little kids. You in no way are harming them by having a tough sit down with her and laying it straight. Sometimes there is an expiration date on a marriage, and so there is with a relationship. It sounds like you still want to work it out, if so, try to have the sit down ASAP, otherwise, if it lingers, the blow up will be much worst.

Pass posted 6/24/2019 11:32 AM

Dude, she doesn't even understand what depression is. I've had people respond with, "Oh, why are you feeling down?" It's not just feeling justifiably sad over recent events - it's a giant with its foot on your chest telling you that you're not good enough, and so you just shouldn't bother.

In future, if you are with someone who doesn't seem to understand, you need to use some Google-fu and find some good articles about what depression actually is, and make it required reading. That shit is important.

And you were totally right about the whole not being able to read her mind thing. People who expect their partners to "just know" what they're unhappy about are drama gluttons and attention whores. While we should try to notice what our partners are feeling, they should also be willing to tell us. Open two-way communication is THE most important technique in a relationship. Not everyone knows how to do it, but it can be learned if both parties are willing.

If both parties aren't willing, then the relationship is just a dumpster fire waiting to happen.


Edited to add: ...and seriously, they need some coaching to make frigging tacos?

[This message edited by Pass at 11:34 AM, June 24th, 2019 (Monday)]

Ganondorf posted 7/1/2019 11:54 AM

"Thanks for making me feel like trash and sorry for interrupting your life". I did not mean to come across this way. Moving in together requires getting used to each other and how to communicate... but it all screams manipulation to me.

My wife wants me to sign a birth permit for a kid that isn't mind.

I said no.

She said "Thanks for the 7 years together"

Reading that, how does it make you feel?


I will say I've always felt some relief when my WW has wanted to leave too. Now she's really leaving and I am conflicted but still, kind of relieved.

Maybe it's for the best to get out now while it's easy to.

AlphaSilvr posted 7/3/2019 04:50 AM

Hi, all. Its been a while and very very crazy.

But here is an update. I was trying to make it work. It didn't.

We are still trying to be friends (the break up is fresh) and she is looking for a place of her own.

I feel relieved and out from a lot of pressure. I thank you all for the advice and help. :) I am taking time to focus on myself and friends because ya'll were right about me not being ready (of course you are :D). I learned a lot about myself and I am going to work on repairs.

Catwoman posted 7/3/2019 05:25 AM

It truly sounds like ending this relationship is for the best.

That being said, don't put artificial pressure on yourself to be "friends" if it isn't in your best interest. Some people can date and be friends and some can't. And for some, like me, it's on a case by case basis. I'm friends/friendly with some former folks I've dated. Others . . . not so much.

I'm fine with that. I don't believe it says anything about me as a person--I think it speaks volumes about the relationship and the lessons it taught and the maturity of both people in having the relationship and having it end. If she is going to be immature (snarky remarks, etc.) about things, I'm not sure I would extend friendship to her.

But we all have to take our own path.

Cat

AlphaSilvr posted 7/12/2019 22:10 PM

Yeah... this went from amicable to utter hellhole in a week.

She blames everything on me, that I hurt her and her children and I am a terrible person and I won't talk to her anymore. I told her I won't talk because she is pissed all the time and constantly accuses me of cheating (though, we are not together)... which she said she was only making jokes about. She constantly interrupts me (is actually aware she does this and doesn't care) and says she is a great listener (she interrupted me a few days ago to tell me how great she is at listening).

I am done completely with everything. She blames me for everything and doesn't care that even some of her other "friends" tell her she is horrible at communication.

... don't rush things... lol - So I can be added to the list of casualties of rushing things. :P

AlphaSilvr posted 7/12/2019 22:12 PM

Yes, she will be upset. Yes, she will likely lash out and make snide and rude comments to everyone involved until her departure. But there's no other way. This is really for the best for everyone involved.

Don't cave to her hystrionics or whatever manipulative tool she pulls out of her toolkit.

This right here... thank you, Catwoman. :D

JanaGreen posted 7/12/2019 23:15 PM

Oh man . . . I hope things calm down soon. What a nightmare. I'm sorry.

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